What's the deal?

boosc

Registered User
Who can tell me the real deal on these honda's with 1.6 and 1.8 vtec motors. I know they are not meant to be fast, most of them anyway. But I know quite a few people here in columbus with hatchback civics and acura gsr with these built up vtec's in them, some have turbo's, gutted interior, full exaust, built up engines. Thing is they street race and I don't really do that. So I really have no clue how fast these ricers really are. One has a real type r motor in a del sol. They always want to race me, they think my sc is real slow, they have no idea what it is. So does anyone have any experience with a descently modded vtec or any other ricer motor. Not just the all show no go, neon light, stickers and a fart can ricer.
 
The problem with the ricers is the insane amounts of money they have to spend to get their cars to go fast. They never will have torque either. I was reading about this 700Hp Supra and while they repeated the 700 HP rating over and over they never mentioned anything about its torque rating. There is no substitute for cubic inches. Ask Pro Street Rich. No matter how fast those riceburners go there will always be a Mustang that's faster. Remember the movie The Fast and the Furious? Didn't they say that pretty pink Supra cost 120,000 dollars to build or am I mistaken. That is possible since everytime somebody starts talking about Toyota's or Honda's I start thinking about a Ford powered Mecha-Godzilla. Anyway, that Dodge Charger lifting the wheels off the ground when it launched was the only good part of the whole movie. You will never see a Honda launch like that, or sound like that. They will never be considered classics either. IMO those cars are meant for guys who still like playing with toys. They may be quick, but everything about them is so overdone, from the huge wings to the neon lights, from the 50 color paint jobs to their ridiculous exhaust notes, from the multi-colored interiors to the little blue lights on the windshield wiper fluid jets. Just seems to me they are overcompensating(6 syllable word score!) for the lack of attention they get from the Ford and GM camps. I know everytime I walk by one with its hood open at the track I laugh, even if it is a quicker car than mine, just because they are so silly looking. Just my .02 folks.:D
 
*shudder* i would rather push a yugo than drive a honda..IMO...but hey, to each his own...personally, i would tell the person who owned the car, that they shouldve put their money into something more worthwhile and walk away...

on a serious note here though, the VTEC's cant be that fast, honda puts them in their vans...

stephen
 
Most are 15 and 14 second cars, however the serious guys can make them fast enough to beat a Viper. You never really know until you see them race.

I don't put twin turbo Supras, Stealths, 3000 Gts or 300Zs in the same class as a Honda. These cars can be very fast if properly modded. My son in law has a 94 twin turbo Supra that is moderatly modded and if he ever learns how to tune and drive it, he could probably beat my best ET.

At this time, he's stuck in the 14s @ about 107 with terrible wheel spin (sideways at the 60ft mark) or bogging it off the line.

David
 
I agree with Dave. I witnessed his son in law. That car is stock (or at least was at the time) and if traction is ever attained that car would be very fast. It is a whole different thing when you are going into the cars that were meant to race such as the Supra, 300Z, 3000Gt and their european compition. Those cars were not meant to me economy cars like the Civic, Accord, Prelude, Camary, Neon, Prodege, Altima, Sentra, Focus, Cavilier, etc. When they get a Civic or other econo into forced induction or other power adders, they can be fast, but all motor they are usualy only into the 14s at best.

-Steve
 
start watching some tuner tv on cable

You will see just how fast some of these cars really are. These shows are on during the weekend and sometimes it is kinda fun to watch. There are always babe contests and such as well if you get tired of looking at imports..... Check out either speed tv or tnn which is now called spike tv for the listing's and you might get an bell ringer.....Rich
 
spike tv

Yeah I watch those shows. It is funny how they are always talking about hp. HP this and that, but never a word about torque. They even had one show where they dynoed stock crx which did about 110hp, then gave a team of 4 guys and 3 hours to swap the whole motor to a b16 with a superharger on it, upgrade the braking system and suspension. It dynoed after all the work was only like 230HP. And they are always working on supras. But I did get a kick out of watching it.
 
Yep, check out Nopi Tunervision on Spike to see actual racing in the Nopi series. The top cars are into 8s. But you shouldn't see one of those on the street either. Saturday mornings and replayed on Sunday afternoons.

Most of them look much..much faster than they really are. The majority in the 14's and 15's.

http://www.nopi.com

Then there is Super 2NR TV. Yeah... way rice, but has some interesting bits here and there.

My favorites though are Trucks! and Horsepower TV. A repeat on Trucks!, they took a Dodge Diesel truck from 198HP up to 468HP by adding a 4" exhaust, Propane Injection, and Nitros Oxcide. This on a Bully Dog custom truck.

http://www.bullydog.com/mruniverse.pl
 
they took a Dodge Diesel truck from 198HP up to 468HP by adding a 4" exhaust, Propane Injection, and Nitros Oxcide. This on a Bully Dog custom truck.

Those look like the numbers on their Chevy Duramax truck that they did.

Trucks is the coolest show on there. I hope to be building a truck similar to Copperhead soon. I have always wanted a 67-72 Chevy 2wd.

-Steve
 
Don't get me wrong, I like and have respect for supras, 300zx,3000gt vr4s, even some turbo eclipses and other cars on that level. What I am wondering is has anybody ever raced, drove, or been in a vtec with say at least 3grand in REAL upgrades. How much money does it take to get them fast, maybe 13's. I'm guessing it cost them a lot more to get there than our birds.
 
One of the guys in the group I roam around with and race with as a 88 CRX with a 1.8L Integra motor with a LS bottom end and GS-R head known as an LS/VTEC (ls's are non-vtec engines where as GS-R's are) with a turbo and his best time is in the 12's. Where these guys get us is weight they only weigh 2300lbs at the most and even with an N/A GS-R in a hatchback will run mid 14's. I never used to give them a second glance but now I keep my eye out cuz some of them are really quick. Mostly the hatches. Oh and he's one of the guys that can do a motor swap in a few hours. and all his stuff is home made (intercooler tubing and such) http://www.homemadeturbo.com
 
vtec?

Do most of you guys know what vtec is? I know some of you guys do, but im sure most ford guys I know dont even know what it is. And I know some guys that built a 10 sec civic that has a stock block and sounds almost like a 302 at idle. Hondas can be fast dont underestimate them just the magazine mechanics driving them...ha ha.:D
 
Most people don't know what a VTEC is, that's why they get away with all them lame decals that people will put on a Mazada and get away with it even within their cliche

Even better are the "Type R" decals.

Now if Honda made VTEC fast, I wonder what Saab will do with their variable compression ratio engine! I wonder what the max compression ratio of that puppy is.

oooh. too cool.

In all modern engines, the compression ratio is fixed and cannot be altered unless different engine components are installed. Saab's SVC technology allows a variable compression ratio from a low of 8:1 to a maximum of 14:1.


It's hard to argue with that given the impressive results. Saab says its 1.6-liter SVC concept engine generates 225 horsepower and 224 foot-pounds of torque. Maximum boost pressure from the supercharger is 40 psi.

http://www.edmunds.com/news/innovations/articles/43027/article.html

saa0003031amg.jpg
 
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Yeah ford uses the same technology in their zetec engine, and volkswagon uses vvti, and chevy like to call theirs ecotec (thats the crappiest one!) and its pretty much the same concept. So can anyone here tell me what VTEC does? I know Im just being an A$$ but I want to see which of you pushrod engine guys knows besides me (Im an ex-ricer though) c'mon There are some really smart guys here!? And well some of you are....well, some of you are I like jugz.:rolleyes: so tell me about the damn hondas already!:D ;)
 
It's variable valve timing...most designs allow for a slight amount of advance and retard to the camshaft lobes. Doing this can provide better bottom end torque without giving up top end power.

A conventional pushrod engine like the 3.8 can only advance and retard the ignition timing..the VTEC can do the ignition timing and the valves for a much wider range.

If you want to see some really cool stuff...just wait until they perfect the electronicly actuated valve. No cams, no lifters..just solenoids opening and closing the valves to the timing, lift and duration the computer tells them.

David
 
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Re: spike tv

forcefed95sc said:
Yeah I watch those shows. It is funny how they are always talking about hp. HP this and that, but never a word about torque. They even had one show where they dynoed stock crx which did about 110hp, then gave a team of 4 guys and 3 hours to swap the whole motor to a b16 with a superharger on it, upgrade the braking system and suspension. It dynoed after all the work was only like 230HP. And they are always working on supras. But I did get a kick out of watching it.

Sounds like your rippin on the guy and I dunno why. Lets se, he buys a crx for maybe $1,000. Engine swap $3,000. Costs less then an sc... He now has 230hp at the whel in a car that weighs nearly half as much as ours, and he hasn't even done nitrous. A b16 holds up quite well to small shots of that also..

You guys need to learn that a lot of hondas can be made fast extremely easily for VERY cheap. Get over the ricers who just try to look fast and focus on the guys who are serious about their cars and trust me, you will have your *** whooped in many races
 
Hey Dave I found designs for a four valve per cylinder vtec v8 surfing but now I cant find it. If that engine was brought into existence evevybody would be a litle more respectful of ricer(japanese) tecnology. Man with all that displacement and a good cpu with vtec heads...goddamn!!! Oh and by the way I figured you would probably know, its these other guys I was wondering about...
:D :D ;)
Mike
 
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lessonintorque said:
volkswagon uses vvti,
'
I thought that was toyota?

Btw the new tbirds even have variable valve timing as well as the new WRX STi, the porsche 911 Turbo it's called VarioCam
 
Howstuffworks.com always has the info.


What does the VTEC system in a Honda engine do?
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question229.htm


You're going to see electronically actuated valves in Diesel trucks first. Emissions regulations set to take effect in 2007 is pushing the engine makers to utilize the technology. Also, the RPM range of a diesel is dramatically less allowing for less radical technology needs in the servo's to drive the valves.

http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20000414S0050

One problem is the high amount of energy needed to move the valves rapidly. Since many designs look at using electro-magnets, power systems may need to be upgraded from 12volt to 24 or 42.
 
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