How to make M5R2 last?(please help)

Mark B. White

Registered User
I have had to replace every one of the blocking rings now in my manual trans and I don't want to do it again. Since it's been back in my car, I have tried not to speed shift it, and have added a B&M ripper shifter. Any other suggestions on how to make my tranny last longer?? Would a synthetic fluid help?? I am currently running standard ATF. IF so what kind of synthetic do you guys recommend, synchromesh, royal purple, redline, or any other??? Another quick question about my shifter, I'm used to mustang shifters and they have adjustable stops on their housings and my ripper for my coupe did not have these, is this supposed to be like this?? If so, how is this shifter any better for the tranny or any better at all???
 
Don't know much...

If you've had the syncros and blocker rings replaced with STOCK components, it should last as long as the original. You can replace the blocker rings with brass ones from a F-150 truck, but owners have reported excessive gear grinding when speed shifting.

I would say stick with the stock fiber lined syncros, they will provide a more streetable feel to the transmission and they can last a long time if you baby it and don't speed shift or power shift.

Also, I hope that when you refreshened your trans that you also replaced your clutch, flywheel and clutch slave cylinder and T/O bearing. If all of the clutch stuff is done properly, it will disengage the transmission easier and put less stress on the syncros.

Many have reported good results with GM syncromesh and Redline ATF.

The B+M ripper shifter used to come with adjustable stops, but now it doesn't. I'm not sure why the manufacturer deleted them, but I don't think that they were needed in the first place.....

The shifter will reduce your throws by about 25-30% it won't however increase the speed of your shifts. In order to do that, you would need a way of improving the syncros to slow the gears down faster for quicker engagement, or lighten rotating components up so they can be slowed down faster.
 
lightning internals

Deep6,

Do you think there is a way to lighten up the internal components so that they can slowdown or line up faster?

There's a guy in the Maserati club that I talked to who drilled all his gogs in his tranny attempting to lighten them up. He says it shifts faster that way.
 
I thinking very general here...

Like I've said in previous posts, I don't even understand the theory of operation of a automatic or manual trans. So I basing my assumptions on changings of potential to kinetic energies.

Say for example you have a 10" brake rotor and single piston caliper. All things being equal, the car stops in 150ft from 60mph.

You then replace the pad material with a more aggressive compound (thus increasing the frictional coefficent) and the car stops in 145ft from 60mph.

You then replace the rotor with an 11" rotor (thus increasing total frictional surface area) and the car stops in 139ft from 60mph.

You then substitute the 11" Cast iron rotor for a 11" ceramic composite rotor (thus reducing rotating mass) and now the car stops in 135ft from 60mph.

Replace the Caliper with a dual piston caliper (increasing the clamping force applied to the brake pad) and now the car can stop in 130ft from 60mph.


Obviously my example is childish and inaccurate from a data logged point of view. But the theory is sound. or at least it should be.

Since the syncros of a manual transmission serve the same function (they are slowing or stopping the selected gear cluster with the driven gear cluster) and are relying on friction (the conversion of kinetic energy to heat) they are performing a job very similar to a car's brakes.

So I would think that if it were possible to reduce the weight of the internal rotating components (gears, shafts etc), The syncros would be able to "scrub" the "speed" off of the components they are attempting to synchronize faster. This translated to the driver as quicker gear engagement with less effort.

I know that the M5R2 is a stout transmission. And I suppose if there were some "structural machinist" around here who could strategically drill lightening holes in the gears and perhaps rifle drill the shafts, you would have a rotating assy that would be much lighter but equally strong or at least almost as strong (if done right). Kinda like Rifle drilling cam shafts. I've seen that done before but I am not sure that is still part of the current internal engine builder's vernacular...

I've also thought that if we could change the fiber compound to something like severe duty carbon fiber (similar to what is used in exotic brake rotors) that the frictional coefficient of the syncros would improve. And if we could increase the surface area of the area in which the syncros apply their friction would also improve things.
 
Now I haven't heard anything to support this claim on these boards ever, but I have an uncle who had a Mazda truck and he kept killing his manual tranny until someone mentioned to him that it was driving it in 5th at under highway speeds. He stopped doing that and the transmission lasted. So one thing I've had suggested for general transmission longevity is to try not to apply too much torque through 5th gear.
 
Can't tell you how long the syncros are going to last, but here are some tidbits to chew on.

If there is ANY drag from the clutch disc the syncro linings will go quickly. Many SCs have clutch drag.

You can use solid brass blockers or fiber lined ones. Your choice, there are pro's and con's of each.

If you use the fiber blockers you MUST use ample friction modifier. It seems that the fiber has TOO much traction and will self destruct if it doesn't have friction modifier.

MTL doesn't seem to be the best thing for fiber blockers. It has increased friction properties which require even more friction modifier to overcome. Use MTL only with brass blockers.

I used B&M trickshift and friction modifier in my newest tranny and it shifts flawlessly, better in fact than synthetic Mercon with friction modifier.

The B&M shifter does not help anything over a properly rebuilt stock shifter other than a shorter throw. The same effect can be accomplished by shortening the stock shifter rod.

If the planets are all lined up correctly the stock tranny will survive whatever abuse you can throw at it. Gary Kuhn is running on the stock non-rebuilt tranny with over 150K miles on it and I can attest that it shifts perfectly even with 3500rpm launches on nitrous and banging the shifts with no mercy whatsoever. I believe he has about 80 runs on it over the past summer. :eek:

Hope that helps!
 
What does Gary Kuhn do differently then with his transmission?! Does he use different fluid, such as the kind you mentioned?
 
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