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View Full Version : Problems w/ Tach and stalling



dkmac
11-22-2003, 04:48 PM
I have 93 SC 5 spd; the problem I have is when I am driving some times, my tach will go dead, at the same time if the car is moving the car will buck for a second and keep driving or if I am stopped the car will stall and I can not start it for at least 5-10 minutes. The check engine light will also illuminate a second after the tack goes limp. The car also feels a little ruff while this takes place. If I turn off car while tach is dead and engine light is on I can not start it again for a few minutes. Most of the time if I am driving a steady speed for a while while tach is dead, the tach will start working again after about 10-20 minutes and the engine light will go off and car feels smooth again like nothing happened.

When I put my car on the diagnostice I got a code of 212 "Loss of Tach imput to ECA; SPOUT circuit grounded". I have been working on cars for years and even was a mechanic for 3 years, but I can not figure out what this is trying to tell me. What is the ECA? AN ECM probably or DIS I am not sure. And the only spout I know of is the one you remove to check the timming. I have a suspect on the fauty component, but I want to make sure that it is that before I blow a 100 dollars to replace the part. I am sure this same problem has happened to some one else. Please help if yall can. I need advise and/or second opinion. Thank you and God Bless.





____________________
93 SC 5-spd, She's purdy :D

aplvlydrtybird
11-22-2003, 06:03 PM
i had this happen to me, i am sure it has something to do with the ignition, try checking the dis, crank and cam position sensors, and if need be the coil pack. that it was what was happening with my 91. good luck let us know what ya find if anything.

TbirdSCFan
11-22-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by dkmac
...when I am driving some times, my tach will go dead, at the same time if the car is moving the car will buck for a second ...and car feels smooth again like nothing happened. I'd replace the cam sensor without a second thought. This is a common problem on these cars. If it doesn't fix you up, you're only out about $30 and 15 minutes of your time..
You probably won't get a code, but if you ever see someting which indicates that the CID is lost, thats from a failed cam sensor, or loose wiring.
Something to try next time it happens, is shut the key completely off, and try to restart.. If no-go, shut the key completely off again, wait a few seconds and try again. Do this about 5-6 times and the car should miracuously run.
Hope this helps.

Thomas A
11-22-2003, 07:58 PM
I'd also put money on the cam sensor. It could still be the DIS, as your car does receive a tach signal from the DIS, pin#12.

Thomas

dkmac
11-23-2003, 09:43 AM
I talked to a Ford expert last night and he said that 99% of the time that he has seen this it has been the dis modual. So I went out to Discount Auto today and bought one. I will try it out for a few days and let yall know of the results. I thank yall for the responses. I had suspected the DIS from the get go, and I saw it come up a few times out of responses. Thanks again and God bless.




____________________
93 SC 5-spd, She's purdy :D

kevenj90sc
11-23-2003, 11:29 AM
It's most likely your cam sensor. i'd replace that too even though you already bought the DIS module. My car did the same thing , and i replaced the module (had one in the trunk) and tested my old one the next day at work ( i work at NAPA and we have a tester) and it tested bad, however the problem was still there. The cam sensor fixed it. No problems since March.....

TbirdSCFan
11-23-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by dkmac
I talked to a Ford expert last night and he said that 99% of the time that he has seen this it has been the dis modual. Hmmmm.... ;) ;) Wonder how many Super Coupes he's worked on. ;) ;)
Oh well. On the bright side, at some time or another, you will get to replace: the DIS/ICM, the cam sensor, and the crank sensor. So, if the problem isn't the DIS, then you have a spare for when it does go.
I'm not knocking his advice; an owner has to make a decision with the best information he has and you probably trust a Ford guy :rolleyes: I trust SCCOA guys more. Some advice here is poor, but most of it is right on.

dkmac
11-25-2003, 07:01 PM
Hey for starters, I replaced the DIS Mod and the problem went away and my SC runs great. Now I know you ment no harm TbirdSCFan and I thank you for your reply. I am very experienced with these cars. This here is the third SC that I have owned. I just did the head gaskets on this a few weeks ago, and I have worked on quite a few in the past "including my own" when I worked for Ford for three years as a mechanic. I do love these cars, just wanted to clear that up.
Like you said I wanted a second opinion from this sight and I do agree with alot of what you said. Not all Ford mechs. know much about these cars. The outside sourch I got was from a current SC owner and Ford mechanic. Beeeeleave me I wanted to make sure that this was the problem before I blew 100 bucks. Again I thank you TbirdSCFan and every one else who responded to this thread. You all did help with yalls advice. I am glad that we have threads like this to help each other out. God Bless.



" For I am the lamb, May God be my Shepard and guide me with his care."


_______________________
89 SC 5-spd Blk Sold 3yrs ago
94 SC Auto Blk Sold 4yrs ago due to Baby
93 SC 5-spd Blue She's a keeper :D

v8killr
11-25-2003, 09:05 PM
Is doing the same thing you stated.So i went out and bought the cam sensor and that didn't help.
Last nite i'm driving it home and it started to shudder and miss real bad i barely got home.so i went to the parts store and got the cam sensor and put it on (in freak'n 10% weather).So this morning i start out to work and it starts doing it again(pissed off at that point)so i start to head back to the house and BAM it goes away.....so i turn around again thinking the problem is gone and 1 block from work it starts again.
So after work it starts up runs good for a mile starts doing it again....but mine is bucking and jerking when it comes to a stop so i have to keep one foot on the gas and one on the brake to keep it from stalling...Your car seems to be doing the same thing mine is doing.But when my car first started this ( about a month ago ) it didn't stall and run like **** it was just hard to start when it was hot and the check engine light was on.I think i let mine go a little longer than you did though that is why it started to get worse.
Sorry this is so long,but like you i hate to spend money on stuff i don't really need.i was going to take it to a local shop and have them run the codes for $70.00 bucks...but if your's was the dis i might just buy that part and see if that fixes it....how much did you pay it and where did you get it at (ford)...
Any help i would appreciate.
Thanks david

TbirdSCFan
11-26-2003, 12:19 AM
dkmac. Glad your problem is solved and from the descriptions, both the DIS and cam sensor failures can cause similar symptoms. When I hear the phrase "bucking", I think of when my cam sensor went, the car became undriveable due to bucking which would cause the whole car to lurch violently.. Shut down and restart and everything worked find sometimes.. When my DIS went out (last year about this time), it was still very driveable, just lacked power and had a noticable vibration.. then out of the blue, it would clear up. I was lucky enough to get a code which indicated a coil circuit failure, but checking the coil pack resistances showed that it was just fine. Replace the DIS with one from an SCCOA member, and its been fine ever since.

Anyways, you can count on replacing all of the 3 ignition electronic parts at some point if you own the car long enough. That is cam sensor, crank sensor, and DIS module. Keep an eye on the harmonic balancer bolt; they tend to break and take out the crank sensor when they go. My crank sensor died from age, not HB failure, so they can fail without that happening, but the bolt shearing off is very common. I've had to replace my cam sensor twice ;)

TbirdSCFan
11-26-2003, 12:35 AM
v8killr.. you can pull codes using one of the bigger paper clips. It takes a few dry runs to get the flash count of the "check engine" lite to make sense, but as long as you don't pull the clip before the sequence is over, they're stored codes, so just key off and try again.

Here's a place which describes the procedure:
http://www.corral.net/tech/maintenance/eecivtest.html

Use method 2. However, where he mentions a wire jumper and spade tabs and crimpers, etc. , use the big paper clip but be sure it doesn't touch any other metal. Wrap it in duct tape or electrical tape. Disregard the part where he talks about hooking up the volt meter to STO.

dkmac
11-26-2003, 08:36 AM
Hey, well first off v8killr if you go to Auto Zone they will do a free engine scan on your vehicle, "which is very nice". Me how ever I broke down and bought an engine scanner a while ago from Auto Zone. They are not to bad on price and they pay with time. The one's for EEC IV is fairly priced.

Well on the other note, your car does sound alot like mine was doing. As an experienced electrician in the world of Naval Aircraft I have learned that electronics love to play games. It is always a guess when it comes to electronics. One item will comunicate along with others and so on. To make things short like what TbirdSCFan said you will have to aventually replace the DIS Cam sensor and so on. However I got lucky I gambled and won with the DIS mod. Me I do try to fix problems as they accure, "immedatly". The problem you have ran into is now you may have multiple problems. You may too have a bad coil pack due to a bad DIS. I myself should and will soon replace my coil pack soon, due to the damage that I may not see yet that may have conflicted from a faulty DIS.

To put things in prospective, I would get my engine scaned and see what codes you get and go from there. If the code is related any what about not reseaving info to the computer or ignition related, I would get both a DIS and coil pack if I had the money. Yes a pricy $160 for both, but it may benifit you. I would not run the car to long the way it is running now. Engines are designed to run a specific way. Ran the wrong way too long it may inflict other damage other than electical, "Mechanical". Well I hope that this helped and remeber we are all here to help one another out so pass on the valuble knowledge when the problem has been resolved. God Bless.


" For I am the lamb, May God be my Shepard and guide me with his care."


_______________________
89 SC 5-spd Blk Sold 3yrs ago
94 SC Auto Blk Sold 4yrs ago due to Baby
93 SC 5-spd Blue She's a keeper:D

v8killr
11-26-2003, 05:14 PM
I did have autozone run a check on the system and the codes he pulled ....
212
214
124
So i thought as did alot of other people that the cam sensor was on it's was out.I replaced it and the problem is there so when i seen your problem it all seemed to familier.i ordered one today and should get it fri or sat,i will let everyone know how it goes..
Thanks for the responce
David

dkmac
11-26-2003, 08:10 PM
Well you got the same codes as I did on my car. The 212 and the 214. You may want to look into that throttle position if you are still popping a 124 after you install your new DIS. If this fixes your car, "which I think that it will" I would definatly replace the coil pack when funds are availible. I know that I will. Let me know he she runs with new DIS. God Bless



" For I am the lamb, May God be my Shepard and guide me with his care."


_______________________
89 SC 5-spd Blk Sold 3yrs ago
94 SC Auto Blk Sold 4yrs ago due to Baby
93 SC 5-spd Blue She's a keeper :D

v8killr
11-28-2003, 07:28 PM
I put the dis module on today and that was the problem.I started my car before i put it on and it was running like crap,but when i put the part on the problem went away and the car was running very strong almost better than it has every run.Thanks for everyones input because without this site i would have spent much more than i did...
I will how ever change the coil pack here in a couple of weeks..
Thanks again...
David

TbirdSCFan
11-28-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by v8killr
I will how ever change the coil pack here in a couple of weeks..
Thanks again...
David Why? I have to dissagree with the assertion that coil packs should be replaced. As long as their primary and secondary resistances are within spec, there is nothing much that can wrong with them. A coil is an electrical, not electronic, device. It either works or it doesn't. As far as how it might be damaged electrically, that could only happen if it were overrun at high voltage for a long time, at which point the insulation on the internal wires would melt and cause a short. This would show up when you did a resistance check as lower impedance. In the engine circuit, switched by the DIS (specifically each circuit is grounded by the DIS), the maximum that can be applied to any coil is charging voltage from a regulated alternator. About the only way that you could get sufficient voltage across the primary enough to melt the internal insulation would be if you took it out and plugged it into a wall socket.

If you have $ to burn though, its your choice. ;)

v8killr
11-28-2003, 10:58 PM
Good point...
Maybe i'll use that $69.00 bucks on a cai i have been want'n.

dkmac
11-29-2003, 09:23 AM
Well I am glad that the DIS fixed your car. And I really can not argue with TbirdSCFan, but at first sight of falure I personally would replace it. Well good luck and God bless.





" For I am the lamb, May God be my Shepard and guide me with his care."


_______________________
89 SC 5-spd Blk Sold 3yrs ago
94 SC Auto Blk Sold 4yrs ago due to Baby
93 SC 5-spd Blue She's a keeper :D