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oxygen822

Registered User
I've had my car in the shop for a while now.... essentially the car wouldn't start. It would turn over but not fire. The mechanic told me it was the MAFS, so i got a Pro-M MAF from supercoupeperformance.com. That wasn't it, upon further inspection the mechanic discovered that my harmonic balancer bolt was broken and the harmonic balancer was walking off, so he replaced the cam sensor and DIS. The car then started and ran for about 30-40 minutes. He then installed the MAFS and now the car won't start. It will fire if he gives it gas while cranking, but as soon as he takes his foot off the gas it stalls hard, sounded like the timing was off. I had needed the car that day so he hadn't put a new bolt in which was dumb on his part. I got him a new bolt and he installed it tonight. I got a phone call from him on my anwsering machine that said it didn't work and that when he turned the car on to put down my window the sunroof opened and wouldn't close. This has happened to me once before after working on my car and I just left the battery disconnected for 10 minutes and it worked fine. But I didn't know if it could be an electrical problem and by some wierd fate related. Does anybody have any guesses as to what could be wrong with my car? I'm running out of time to work on it with Xmas coming up and i would like to go home and not be stuck at school for the holidays. The only thing i can think of is that the MAFS isn't calibrated corrctly. Thanks a lot.

Pat
 
the mechanic discovered that my harmonic balancer bolt was broken and the harmonic balancer was walking off, so he replaced the cam sensor and DIS
Pat,

Did you mean to say crank sensor? That would certainly be the cause of your starting problem if the balancer damaged it will walking off the crank (almost certainly). If he replaced the cam sensor, that would be a potential problem for not starting also, but have no real relation to the balancer issue. As for replacing the DIS, that sounds more like a guess than anything. That sounds a bit premature, and may have been unnecessary.

When you try cranking the engine over, does the upshift light come on? If so, that is one way of telling the crank sensor may be the issue. I would check into that if you haven't already.

The MAF not being correctly calibrated would lead to a rich or lean condition, but the car would likely start and run. Try to give us some more information, and we can take it from there.

Good luck!
 
I'll find out tomorrow if the upshift light comes on when cranking the engine. It was throwing 2 codes before, one was a canister purge. That wouldn't have anything to do with it not starting. but I forget what the other was. It might have been the crank sensor that he replaced, i was thinking Cam sensor. I will find out for sure tomorrow, I will call him in the morning. When he did get the car to start he put the new DIS in and the car started, put the old one it and it wouldn't start, put the new one back in and it started. So that would indicate to me that it was bad, but then again, i could be wrong.
 
Pat,

At least you have a good theory to confront him with when you talk to him next. As for the DIS, they have a finite lifespan anyway, so if you replaced it for no reason, consider it preventive maintenance! :p

Post back your results, and I'll try to check back here tomorrow.

...And by the way, try inserting your full name in your signature so people know who you are, and can refer to you by name.

Regards,
 
Thanks for your help Bill, I appreciate it.
I'll post on here tomorrow morning to update what was wrong with my car and everything. Do you think it could be the computer going? Something's just fishy with it starting and running for 30 minutes and then stalling. That's the part I can't figure out. Thanks again.
 
Bill,
Ok, it was the crank sensor that was replaced, not the cam sensor, sorry about the confusion. He doesn't know if the upshift light came on, he's going to see about that and check the timing again. I mean, the thing sounds like the timing is just way off when it stalls out, but I don't have a clue as to what could be wrong and frankly, neither does the mechanic. He's thinking that i have a hue wiring problem, but I really don't want to/can't pay him to just trace wires and make sure they're all good. If anybody has some ideas please let me know.

Thanks,
 
Pat,

Don't be so quick to assume it is something major. Although it is possible, I've been caught in the position before where you start replacing random parts just based on suspicion, and it's way to costly, and certainly inefficient.

What vacuum does the car read while it runs for 30 seconds? If you don't know, I suggest you try and observe that next time around. This doesn't sound like a wiring problem, IMO.

I don't think your main computer is the issue. Stalling after a few seconds of running is not uncommon, as the computer begins to exit start up mode, and if a vacuum leak or certain cylinders aren't firing properly, there may be a tendency to stall.

Let us know.
 
another thing i thought of would be poor fuel delivery. maybe a clogged fuel filter, or a bad sending unit it is probably getting low on gas by now, it had about 3/8 of a tank when i took it in. I'm gonna go up to the shop now and talk to him about it, see if he thinks that's a possibility. I don't know what it runs at boost whise when it starts, but the mechanic had to keep his foot on the gas to keep it going, so i'm assuming that reading would be of little use, but I'll see if i can check that out as well.

Thanks again,
 
OK, it's holding about 40 PSI for fuel pressure so that's ok. When the engine cranks it starts to fire and then stalls immediately. maybe fires for a second. won't even stay running if you give it gas. No upshift light while cranking. So far I've replaced the MAFS, Idlea Air Controller, TPS, Crank Sensor, and DIS. The mechanic said something about a timing spout(?) that there is a technical service bulletin about. He said he could replace that, but he knows a mechanic that has an SC who is going to come look at it tonight. What do you think about the timing spout? I know, now I'm grasping at straws, but i really don't know what it could be.

Thanks,
 
Pat,

I'll admit, I've never heard the term "timing spout" until today, but I have a feeling he may be talking about the cam stator, which may be out of alignment. Did he remove the cam stator when he installed the new cam sensor? If so, he could have put it back in a different position, which is causing the cylinders to fire in the wrong order during starting sequence. Once the car is running, the cam stator is less of a factor.

It seems to me that either the firing sequence is off, or that certain cylinders aren't firing for other reasons, such as a bad plug wire, spark plug, or coil pack (less likely). Since things have been taken apart so recently, I would suggest he check the spark plug routing to be safe, because that is a common minstake on these engines. Mechanic or not, people screw that up.

Don't let him replace any more parts until you KNOW that is the problem.
 
Nothing changed last night, but he got it to throw 3 codes. Of course he was doing this outside so he didn't write them down. After he replaced the crank sensor, MAFS, and DIS it was throwing 2 codes. one was the purge canister valve, which the car is still throwing, but that should affect ignition at all. The other code the car was throwing was a pit sensor (?) code. which he thought would be related to igniton, but it is no longer throwing that code and is throwing 2 others. Of course, he didn't write them down, so i'm sure this isn't much help. But he thought the codes changing like that could mean a faulty ECU. What do you think?

Thanks,
 
First, I hope this inept mechanic isn't charging you for all this "labor" of is. It sounds like he really doesn't know what he's doing.

You said the harmonic balancer was "walking" off. So did this guy just tighten the bolt back on there? Or did he take off the balancer and verify that it wasn't broken, and that the woodruff key on the crank wasn't sheared? This is a common mode of failure with these balancers. If the key is sheared, the balancer can rotate relative to the crank, and that could cause the problems you're describing.

SPOUT is an acronym for something like SPark OUTput (I think), it's a signal that controls spark timing. If you pull the Spout jumper (located on the wiring harness near the AC compressor) the engine will default to base timing (no advance).

You need to get the codes. Without knowing what's going on with the computer, it's hard to make any other suggestions. BTW the ECU very rarely fails. I've only every seen a few people who had that happen. It's almost always something else.
 
He's not really charging me for this, I've payed him about $500 including parts (new DIS and Crank sensor) so i think that's pretty reasonable. He said he checked teh harmonic balancer, he took it off the car and checked it. he called it a "pulse ring" instead of a woodruff, im asuming they're the same thing.

Thanks,
 
No, the "pulse ring" as he calls it is the metal part on the back of the balancer that rotates through the crank sensor. The woodruff key fits in a slot on the crank, and there is a corresponding slot on the balancer, so that you can only put the balancer on one way. If the key sheared off due to a loose bolt, or it fell out when he took out the balancer, it would be possible to put the balancer back on rotated. If this happened I think the result would be similar to the problems you described. Has he checked the base timing (with the Spout jumper out) to make sure it reads correctly? If the balancer was rotated, base timing would appear to be off.
 
He hasn't checked the base timing, I'm going to print out a few of the posts from here and take them to him tomorrow, see if i can get something done, or at the very least get the codes and see what they are. I was going to take the car to Ford and see if they could save it, but I need it fixed by next weekend as I would like to go home from school for the holidays and they can't get me in until the end of next week if i'm lucky. So i'm keeping my fingers crossed, I appreciate the help.

Thanks,
 
I talked to the mechanic today, he said he is going to check the woodruff key again. he said he checked it the first time he put the harmonic ballancer on, but not the second, so maybe that's it. He's also going to run the codes again today and send them to me, I'll post them when i get them.

Thanks for the help guys!
 
It's fixed! The DIS he initially got was faulty, he tested some wires and it wasn't right, so he replaced it and it runs great now! thanks a lot for all your help.
 
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