Car will crank, wont start

onEdge24

Registered User
Car will crank, wont start..Now starts beautifully?????

Ok guys, Im stuck here at work right now, but I drove the car in fine this morning and now it wont catch and start. I have had the battery jumped and charged for 10min and it wont start although it does crank trying to get the engine to turn over. The upshift light stays on the whole time I am turning the key to try to start the engine, it goes out when i stop trying to start the car.

I checked the small wire coming off the neg post (dont ask me why) that goes to the frame in front of the battery and it was hot. FYI car wont catch and start even with jumper cables on and other car running for 10 min.

I did replace my thermostat recently and it leaked a few times before i actually got it right and plenty of coolant ran down the block before I got it fixed right.

After reading posts, here are my questions:

1) What would make the car do this? Since the car cranks very nicely, would the ground wire really make much difference?

2) How do I check so see if my HB bolt is broken? again i have no idea where these parts are located?

3) If, after i check all connections again..how hard is it and can anyone provide details on exactly how to change my crank sensor without removing HB? ( I will be checking to see if I need a new HB)..I have no idea where this is located or how to do it. But it seems the place for me to start after reading all of the posts, and I need to get this replaced ASAP if it is the culprit

I guess I am looking for any help, please this is my daily driver and I have a few days coming up where i can work on it.

Thanks in Advance

Gig'Em
 
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CRANKSHAFT SENSOR!!!!!!!!

Well, you have the telltale sign of a bad crankshaft sensor. The up-shift light will stay on if the sensor is bad.

Replace the sensor and have fun. Try a search or FAQ section for directions in replacing the sensor.


Don
 
You have 2 clues to your problem. First is the upshift light stays on. This indicates that the crank sensor is bad. The second is that you recently replaced the thermostat and a lot of coolant dripped down the front of the engine. Coolant on the crank sensor will keep the sensor from working. If there is no crank sensor there is no fire, no fire no run.

An engine that will turn over well has nothing at all to do with the battery. Try running a lot of water down the engine on the pass side behind the harmonic dampner (the round thing behind the crank pulley. First though, check for the LARGE bolt in the CENTER of the crank pulley. If it is missing tow the car home.

Jeff
 
Towing

Well I am at work so Towing is really my only option at the moment. Luckily insurance is paying for the tow :) and I can get a new sensor (supposedly) from oreilly's tomorrow for $50+tax.

So water may wash out the coolant crap and clean up the sensor? I guess I will try that first before i replace the whole thing. I will be checking the bolt on my damper before I restart.

I have had the car running a lot with the hood up and do not remember ever seeing the balancer/pulley wobbling, but ya never know i guess. If it is the damper Ill probably end up having a shop do it unless i really man up with some time.

Thanks

Gig'em
 
it starts, but sounds like something is hitting

Well waiting for the towtruck i tried to crank it and it did start, but it sounds like something is hitting in there when i rev...from the picutres I have seen could it be the vanes rubbing as they go through the sensor? I did check and the large bolt in the center of the pulley is stil firmly attached.


Heres where I am completely stumped....why would it start fine in the morning, park it at work, not start all day, then at the end of the day it started withot me changing anything at all on the car..and why would it have that noise now?

BTW the noise is almost unnoticeable at idle but rev it any and it becomes pronounced.

I am so lost and extremely agitated...If I had known the problms with the SC ebfore I bought it , I never would have. I love the car, but I just need an every day driver that is dependable and it seems every winter this car acts up something fierce.


Any help/suggestions very welcome and if theres information I have left out, let me know and I will do my best to provide it.

Thanks

Gig'Em
 
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The balancer could still be bad even though the bolt is still attached, and no wobble. So the sound you hear could be the vanes hitting the sensor.

Always look for a BBS on the car you want to buy and see what the common problems are. Years ago I wanted a TT 300ZX, until I found out that a cam and crank sensor were $2,200. I don't care what anybody says an SC is not a good everyday car once they get over 100K on them, and that is a fact.

Jeff
 
Now What?

Now I have went outside with a buddy so he could look at it with me and I started it again and its purring like a kitten. (go figure)


I have ordered the crank sensor and will look at replacing it, but what could cause this problem I am having? It seems to me it probably is a bad sensor/electrical issue because it is not a persistent problem.

Somebody throw me a rope to save me :)


Thanks

Gig'Em
 
I have mentioned the things that I think could be causing your problem. It could be something else I am not thinking of but you should take a look and see. You probably should have held off ordering a crank sensor until you got under there and took a good look at the balancer. I don't mean shining a flash light at it and calling it good. Remove the shroud around the dampner and take a GOOD look at it. Get friendly with it, feel it, figure out where and what EVERYTHING is what it does and why it is there, so that you don't end up with a suprise.

We can't see it you have to be our eyes if you need help.

Jeff
 
Sounds to me that the car might be in random fire mode due to a faulty DIS or Cam Sensor. You might try pulling the SPOUT plug and seeing if the car will start and run, say 5-6 times in a row.

Thomas
 
Upshift light on during cranking means no crank sensor signal. Don't loose track of that as it is about the most direct indication of your problem you can get.

You should have someone help you by watching the lower pulley while gunning the throttle. Watch for any wobbling or running out of true. If you heard something hitting something, there is just little doubt that something was happening.

Just verify the bolt is still in the end of the crankshaft, and watch that part for movement.

With that said... Don't loose site of the fact that it means no signal, not defective sensor. No signal could be due to wiring issues, harmonic balancer out of alignment, or bad sensor. You want to eliminate the first two before spending money for a new sensor.

The reason to try to stay on top of this is because if the balancer has to get to a point where it cracks in half, or comes off the crankshaft, the retaining bolt is often broken off inside the crankshaft. Drilling that out bites. So catching it before the bolt breaks is a good thing.
 
J57ltr said:
Years ago I wanted a TT 300ZX, until I found out that a cam and crank sensor were $2,200.

I was kinda upset to hear that considering i have been thinking about picking up that car for a while, but i did check out their boards and found that you can get pretty much all of their parts for cheaper. Napa sells the cam sensor for $348 and their CAS (crank angle sensor) for $320. The prices might have been higher back when you looked at them last but i was relieved to find that they weren't THAT expensive. Although if you do think about it almost $700 is still a heck of a lot of money for a coupla sensors. Don't mean to undermind, just my .02 By the way Jeff, when r u gonna get those picks from the mini hooters meet in Burbank up?
 
Unless the wiring is bad, you WILL need a new sensor.

If the vanes contacted the sensor (rubbed) the sensor is destroyed.

If you got enough coolant on the sensor to cause it to stop working, it is going to intermittantly fail for a while before it completely goes (read - it will leave you waiting for a tow truck a few times).

Take a good long look at the balancer to make sure its not on its way out. I don't think it's your problem but check it just to be sure.

Aaron
 
Checked for wobble

Well I got up this moroning and started her up, still purring :)

I had my better half gun her quite a few times while i watched the pulley and i saw absolutely no wobble at all, so I drove it to work, parked and shut it down. Turn the key and it cranks right back up no problem.

I am truly thinking it is just the sensor had gunk in it, because looking from underneath, some of the hose covers in the area of the sensor back there by the oil filter have some antifreeze on em. I am going to run some more water around the area unless someone tells me it will do more harm than good.

I have the sensor from O'Reilly's and will be replacing it, but I am going to wait to see if it happens again since I'm in such a small town towing isnt a big deal and my insurance covers any tows up to $80 per tow.

Thanks :)

Gig'Em
 
update

Well I left work and went to start her up and there is the upshift light on again...grrrrrrrrrr...call a friend to pick me up, sit for a while..so I go grab 2 cups of water and throw them into the engine around the area of the sensor...wait about a minute....TaDA the car starts up fine. So I guess that conclusively tells me that the sensor is getting gunked up by something ( o joy a hunt). Im going to realy run water down it prob tomorrow or friday and if it continues not starting I will replace the sensor.

Still debating on the DIY or take it to a shop if they arent going to charge me much (2hours labor or less)

Thanks again for all the input and If I am stil missing something, please let me know.

GiG'EM
 
Just replace the sensor - it will start cutting out while your driving and you don't want to loose power steering on a highway off ramp.

Whatever you do, DON'T let the balancer be removed, you can safely remove the pulley to get more room but don't pull the balancer.


Aaron
 
Update: Sensor replaced

Well I spent sunday afternoon getting extremely dirty( and cleaning the underside of my engine) and I replaced the sensor. It certainly is a POA to get that sensor lined up right :) .

The old sensor was severely clogged with dirt on the inside of the channel the vanes go through. No fluid was present in the area when I replaced it and the vanes were clean.

I have beenrunning the car for 2 days no and no problems starting her up :)

Thanks to everyone for the advice!

Gig'Em
 
pastera said:
Just replace the sensor - it will start cutting out while your driving and you don't want to loose power steering on a highway off ramp.

Whatever you do, DON'T let the balancer be removed, you can safely remove the pulley to get more room but don't pull the balancer.


Aaron

This is sounding very much like my problem except mine died on the highway at 70mph and you aren't kidding about the off ramp. :eek: This happened on the way back from a Cruise Night of all things. The odd thing is that there were no warning signs at all. One minute it was running as smooth as can be and the next nothing. It will crank no problem, but won't fire. I borrowed a code reader and got a code 14 (erratic ignition profile pickup (PIP)) in the continuous memory. Now that I've seen this post (the upshift light is staying on while cranking) I'm thinking this might be it. My SC has recently been converted from an auto to a 5-spd. The computer was also swapped to the 5-spd version. It's been running great for a month now. It also had a new engine installed about a year ago with no major problems other than the trans.
 
redknight said:
I borrowed a code reader and got a code 14 (erratic ignition profile pickup (PIP)) in the continuous memory. Now that I've seen this post (the upshift light is staying on while cranking) I'm thinking this might be it.
You can be confident. As long as your harmonic balancer main bolt is there, its the crank sensor. Always check that the bolt hasn't snapped off as this is a very common problem.
 
TbirdSCFan said:
You can be confident. As long as your harmonic balancer main bolt is there, its the crank sensor. Always check that the bolt hasn't snapped off as this is a very common problem.
Thanks. The guys & gals on this board are such a huge help.
 
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