Ram SRT/10 Tested

[1BADSC]

The latest Car & Driver has performance numbers from the new SRT/10.

0-60 in 4.9

1/4 in 13.6 @105mph

Top speed drag limited 153mph

.86g on the skidpad

70-0 in 184ft

10mpg city-15mpg highway
C/D observed 12mpg

Price as tested 45,795

[dirtybird91]

Does anyone around here know how that compares to the new Ford Lightning?:confused:

Dirtybird91

[1BADSC]

The numbers I found for the 2001 model list

0-60 in 5.2

1/4 in 13.8 @ 104mph

70-0 in 185 feet

[Phil Kuhn]

I'll take the Lil Dodge SRT-4 and still go 153 mph and I'll even bring it to a stop quicker. Oh yeah, I'll pay just $20K, too.

[Andy 94SC]

Yeah, but you'll look like a schmuck with a load of plywood on a SRT-4.

[Rob Noth]

Yeah, but I'd FEEL like a schmuck getting 12 mpg...



oh wait, I already have a car that gets 12 mpg...

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Once again looking at another make for a truck when you have the ultamate right here at ford with the lightning...Go figure

[aplvlydrtybird]

yea that ram isnt as impressive as i thought it would be, for 500Hp its only going down the track at 13.6....the neon is right behind if for only 20k....15k less, and you can get a lightnign for like 30k around here or less, and with a few bolt ons you will be looking at the srt-10 in the rearview mirror...

my .02

[Mr1der]

let's not even talk about the new lightning concept with the neato "super cooler" intercooler, I hope that becomes production, it's just too cool! It's even set up more like a manual car than a manual truck...

[HSKR]

Originally posted by aplvlydrtybird
yea that ram isnt as impressive as i thought it would be, for 500Hp its only going down the track at 13.6....the neon is right behind if for only 20k....15k less, and you can get a lightnign for like 30k around here or less, and with a few bolt ons you will be looking at the srt-10 in the rearview mirror...

my .02

Typical type of statements coming from people who have to compensate somehow when a vehicle gets released that is faster than their own brand. The numbers CnD got weren't that impressive, especially since I have seen 13.4 ets posted from another test for the SRT-10, and just wait till it gets in the hands of some owners who know how to drive. I guarantee it will be putting up low low 13's if not 12 sec times stock, and definitly 12's with slicks at the track.

As far as the price comparison, I have a Dakota R/T. I bought one new in '99 for $22K. At the time, the Lightnings were $34K. Give me $10K to put onto my Dakota R/T and the Lightning would be seeing my taillights, but of course when it comes down to it, you run what you brung, and price doesn't matter. There are several normally asperated(as in no supercharger or nitrous) Dakota's on the road now that can beat a stock Lightning and the R/T owners still have money in their pockets over buying a L.

[skyline]

i got a new lightning but it is the same as the 03' year it can run stock 13.3 to 13.4 1/4 mile times. but it is much faster now :)

[1BADSC]

HSKR, C&D drivers are some of the fastest and most accurate testing drivers around. They don't test going downhill like Motortrend or other lower mags. Their times came in right were Dodge figured they would be.

They also stated that the truck has the tractoin of a gravy boat. Their job is not to put slicks on it and tune it in order to get a faster time at the track. All they do is test it 5-10 times or more and average the results. With big heavy rims and street tires it runs those times. If dodge really wanted it to perform they should have used a shorter, lighter tire and they would have improved braking and acceleration times.

I am sure that with some slicks the 5500lbs truck will make it through the
1/4 in a little less time. Although it will not quite be the performance truck the lightning is because of the cost of parts and mods for that motor.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
HSKR, C&D drivers are some of the fastest and most accurate testing drivers around. They don't test going downhill like Motortrend or other lower mags. Their times came in right were Dodge figured they would be.

They also stated that the truck has the tractoin of a gravy boat. Their job is not to put slicks on it and tune it in order to get a faster time at the track. All they do is test it 5-10 times or more and average the results. With big heavy rims and street tires it runs those times. If dodge really wanted it to perform they should have used a shorter, lighter tire and they would have improved braking and acceleration times.

I am sure that with some slicks the 5500lbs truck will make it through the
1/4 in a little less time. Although it will not quite be the performance truck the lightning is because of the cost of parts and mods for that motor.

Sport Truck got the SRT-10 Ram to run a 13.12 @ 108mph 1/4 mile time during their truck of the year competition and this was as LACR drag strip which is about 3200' elevation. Motor Trends numbers have always been high for the Dodge products. This is the same magazine that couldn't get better than a 15.7 out of a stock Dakota R/T regular cab even though they regular cab R/T's average 15.1-15.2 in the 1/4. Curb weight on the SRT-10 is only 5000lbs, and I don't really think the big wheels are hurting it much considering it stoped in a shorter distance than the Lightning did with smaller wheels. And the braking only got better as the brakes heated up. It stopped 60-0 in a shorter distance than any of the other Truck of the Year contestants, including the '04 F-150. Like I said earlier. typical responses from Ford fans who can't stand that the Lightning isn't top dog anymore. And even in the new '05 Lightning performs like Ford hopes it will, it still takes a supercharged motor in a lighter truck to run the same times as the normally asperated SRT-10. When the SRT-10 first came out, all the Ford and Chavy boys said that Dodge would never produce it. Then when it was greenlighted for production, they said it would never run the times Dodge claimed, then when it did, they had to start going after the price. Funny thing is, Chevy's Silverado SS isn't much cheaper, and the SSR is a rolling joke. The new '05 Lighting will cost just as much as the SRT-10 when it gets released. Face it. For now, the almighty Lightning isn't king of the hill anymore.

[1BADSC]

I don't like ford or Dodge so I am not a typical lightning lover. I think both compaines suck. GM sucks too anymore. Each one has one or two cars that are nice and that is it. I would never be loyal to any of them. The dodge is slow for as much power as it has.

[SC90_Pete]

I'd never own a dodge, unless it was given to me for free. The ford Lightning is still the best and its outdated now. I'm sorry but I'd rather have a forced induction engine than an N/A engine any day. Plus if you ask me, Chrysler/Dodge/Plymoth have some really ****** looking cars and trucks. And like others have said, with a few cheap bolt ons for the lightning you'll be destroying those srt-10's no problem on the track and on the street.

[1BADSC]

I don't think it would take any bolt ons for the lightning to win. It will be much like the vette vs viper. In order to drive the Viper fast you have to be a really good driver, where with the vette an average driver can extract great times.

It will be much the same way with the SRT. The lightning owner will have a much easier time getting good times than the SRT owner will.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by SC90_Pete
I'd never own a dodge, unless it was given to me for free. The ford Lightning is still the best and its outdated now. I'm sorry but I'd rather have a forced induction engine than an N/A engine any day. Plus if you ask me, Chrysler/Dodge/Plymoth have some really ****** looking cars and trucks. And like others have said, with a few cheap bolt ons for the lightning you'll be destroying those srt-10's no problem on the track and on the street.

And with a few cheap bolt ons, the SRT-10's will be right back in front. I always find it funny when people compare a modified vehicle to a stock vehicle. Why not make it apples to apples and put a SC on the SRT-10 so it's forced induction as well?? What makes the Lightniung the best?? Simply because it's a Ford and you are a Ford guy?? With a few bolts on's, my Dakota R/T will destroy stock Lightnings on the street and track, does that make it better than the Lightning?? Oh, and this is leaving my R/T normally asperated. Forced induction is real good if you like having problems. Just look at our SC's and the head gasket problems, and the '99 Lightnings with the intercooler problems, and the new Lightnings with the problems I've heard of blowing spark plugs and other stuff. Yeah, that forced induction wroks wonders. And don't even try to mention the whole warranty thing because as soon as you change the pulley, or put in one of the aftermarket chips, you warranty just blew away. I wasn't trying to start a flame war, merely sticking up for the SRT-10 amungst naysayers who don't know much about it. The numbers don't lie, and right now, the SRT-10 is king of the factory Sport Truck market.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
I don't think it would take any bolt ons for the lightning to win. It will be much like the vette vs viper. In order to drive the Viper fast you have to be a really good driver, where with the vette an average driver can extract great times.

It will be much the same way with the SRT. The lightning owner will have a much easier time getting good times than the SRT owner will.

We'll see. From what I've heard from people who have driven the SRT-10, it's not that hard to drive. Like any high performance vehicle, you smash the throttle off the line and your going to smoke the tires and lose traction.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Wait lets end this argument..

Who won truck of the year????...HAHAHA!!!!..

How much is that VIPER powered pickupanyway?


Ive also seen stock lightning run much faster then a high 13..But to each his own..Regardless..The f150 is the truck all trucks wish they could be:O)..And it doesnt take more $100 investement in the lightning to significantly improve performance via a SCpulley:O)

[SC90_Pete]

Your right, I am a Ford guy, but either way you look at it, the lightning which has been around for what, 10 years now still beats the brand new dodge that came out and absolutely owns Chevy's Performance truck the oh so slow "Silverado SS." It's all a matter of preference. There is one thing though that I like about dodge, and that is they make a car for 21k that can hit 13's in the 1/4 mile. ****** car with a pumped up engine. I wish ford would figure this out and give us a bare boned model with a big *** engine. Everything is all packaged now and the only way to get the big engine is to get the premium package with a bunch of crap I don't want. Oh yeah, and I'd also like a Ford Ranger to come with the all aluminum 4.6L 3valve modular v8 that comes in the mustang GT. That little truck would haul *** just like your little dakota.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by SC90_Pete
Your right, I am a Ford guy, but either way you look at it, the lightning which has been around for what, 10 years now still beats the brand new dodge that came out and absolutely owns Chevy's Performance truck the oh so slow "Silverado SS." It's all a matter of preference. There is one thing though that I like about dodge, and that is they make a car for 21k that can hit 13's in the 1/4 mile. ****** car with a pumped up engine. I wish ford would figure this out and give us a bare boned model with a big *** engine. Everything is all packaged now and the only way to get the big engine is to get the premium package with a bunch of crap I don't want. Oh yeah, and I'd also like a Ford Ranger to come with the all aluminum 4.6L 3valve modular v8 that comes in the mustang GT. That little truck would haul *** just like your little dakota.

How does the Lightning beat the new SRT-10?? 13.12@108mph in the 1/4 for the SRT-10 in Sport Truck beats any magazine time I've ever seen for a stock Lightning.

And for Slowpoke himself, the winner of truck of the year in Sport Truck was the Nissan Titan, and only because they started a new award for the SRT-10 which is "Performance Truck of the Year" since it outperformed every other truck in the test group.

[1BADSC]

HSKR, what do you think would be a cheap bolt on for the v-10 motor??? Ever see the prices to modify them in the viper. The prices are outragous.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
HSKR, what do you think would be a cheap bolt on for the v-10 motor??? Ever see the prices to modify them in the viper. The prices are outragous.

The same cheap bolt ons most people go to first. cold air intake and cat back exhaust. What "cheap" bolt on would put the Lightning out in front? Same basic things. Cept the SRT-10 doesn't need more boost. I'm not knocking the Lightnings, they are fast trucks which have earned my respect, but you guys are talking about the SRT-10 like it's just another farm truck wanabe Sport Truck. Give it some respect. Ford hasn't been able to make any of it's normally asperated motors put up very good numbers from the factory. Look at all the fastest Ford vehicles that they make. They all have superchargers on them. The fastest Dodge vehicles out right now except for the SRT-4 are all normally asperated. And Ford really doesn't have an answer for the Viper, and stock for stock, the SRT-10 Ram wins.

This whole discussion starts up everytime a faster vehicle is made that knocks the previous fast vehicle off the top. It happened in '99 when Ford re-released the Lightning with the blown 5.4 and took the crown from the Dakota R/T, and now it's happening in 2004 with the SRT-10 taking the crown from the Lightning. And it all usually ends up going something to the effect of, "yeah, but if I put this part and this part on my truck, it will beat your stock truck." And then they claim victory because they can modify thier vehicle to beat the faster stock vehicle. It all comes down to money. Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go???

[1BADSC]

Sorry, but without mods, the Dakota R/T's were slow. Big HP claims with no numbers to back them up. I am criticizing the Dodge because it has 500hp and a 4:11 rear and runs mid to low 13's. In my opinion that is not very good. The Ford is doing it with a lot less power.

You also listed about the only two mods that will be cheap for the Viper motor. Look up some heads, cam, injectors, headers, Mass air flow, throttle body, all of those will be tripple the price or more of most other cars/trucks.

I am not trying to start flaming or anything just stating it the way I see it,

[SC90_Pete]

HSKR first off, Ford can make an engine thats powerful naturally aspirated but the more power from an N/A engine the more expensive. Ford chooses Superchargers so they can make high horsepower and high torque affordable as in the Cobra and Lightning. Does Dodge or Chevy make an N/A car with hp over 350 thats within the 30-35k range? The new srt-10 comes in at around 45k if I'm not mistaken. Lightning msrp is 34k and you can get them now for about 30-31. I'm not flaming your posts I'm just saying for the dollar, the lighting is a better buy than a heavy *** truck with a v10 in it. Not to mention with a decent driver, can pull off some good numbers, which isn't too hard because it's automatic.

[1BADSC]

you left out the fact that a supercharged motor will get better gas mileage than a NA high HP motor, unless under boost of course.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

One of the dudes in the Nation Lightning Owners Club has run a 13.248 @ 104.26 with a bone stock 2001 lightning..Took me all of 4 min to find that info........

Ya think maybe the reason Ford didnt win Sport truck or Performance truck of the year award was because......No Lighting till next year???

How much you want to bet Ford wraps it up next year????

Not saying the performance of the V10 VIPER POWERED Dumptruck isnt good..It is...But $ for $ the Ford blows it away..Performance is basically on Par..And next year I'm sure the Dodge will be crying...Hey..I garuntee it.

Well time will tell how these Dodge trucks hold up real world
..But for now there are many 10, 11 and 12 sec lightning at the track with minimal mods...Gotta Love Ford

[darriantbird]

Lets all be thankful that the big three even gives us some vehicles that are of "muscle car "status,for those of us who are old enough too, remember the "muscle car" drought of the late 70's and early 80's? Can't we all just get along....and err ...burn rubba!!

[HSKR]

Well, if you want to talk $ to $ comparison, the Dak R/T is a lot better than the Lightning. I bought my '99 brand new for $23K. For the difference in price to a new Lightning, I could walk all over the stock L's. It's stupid to try and compare modded vehicles to stock vehicles. If that's what you have to do to be comparable, then......... Well, I guess I don't have to say it. I can't understand why anyone would pay over $30K for a Lightning when for less money you can buy a regular normally asperated truck and make it just as fast as the L.

As far as Dodge making a vehicle with 350hp that's in the $30-$35K, well, no they don't, but they do have one that's in the $20-$25K area with a regular cab short bed Hemi Ram. Slap a 150shot of nitrous, or a Supercharger on the Hemi and they'll be right there performance wise with the Lightning.

As far as getting better gas mileage, a SC motor won't get any better gas mileage than a N/A vehicle if you dirve them both the same. I get just as good of gas mileage with my SC in the City as I do my normally asperated Dakota R/T. What do you consider "cheap" for a mod?? Under $200?? Under $500?? Injectors are injectors. The only reasone they woudl cost more for the SRT-10 is because they have two more than most vehicles. Throttle body you can get for the same price as most other aftermarket TB's. They ain't special, it's just an air valve like every other TB out there. Wait till the '05 Lightning comes out, then try talking price for performance again. I guarantee, Ford won't be able to sell a 500hp Lightning for under $40K. Or, at least they won't sell it for under that price.

And you're right, time will tell how the SRT-10's hold up real world. So far the track record for the Lightnings is far from stellar.

[1BADSC]

Try $600 bucks for a TB

$3,000 bucks for a cheap set of heads.

$125 bucks for a 180 degree thermostat

That is the type of stuff I am talking about. Those prices are generaly much higher without reason. I can see why the heads would be more because there is more labor and parts. But everything else is just high.

[HBK94SC]

Ford vs. Dodge....yeah this was a viable argument back in 1969, but we can no longer carry on in this manner. We need to not argue about this and unite. What we need is a little solidarity. The Detroit 3 are in trouble...thats right its not the BIG 3 anymore and you can thank Toyota for that. At this rate we can all soon be arguing about our Titans vs. FTX trucks. Domestic pick ups are a thing of the past....

[1BADSC]

Toyota still counts as a GM product :)

[HSKR]

So you must own a Viper to know these prices. And last time I checked, heads weren't a cheap mod. I can get a TB for less than $600, you just gotta know where to look, or who to ask.

Who cares how much it costs to mod the truck?? Stock for stock, it still beats the lightning. Or are you going to argue that too?? Since really, that's all most people care about. Like I said before. Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?? If someone has the money to buy and mod a SRT-10 Ram, then more power to them. Doesn't mean the truck doesn't deserve respect for what it can do.

[1BADSC]

You bought your Dakota RT for the same reasons that I am saying more people will buy the Lightning. It is cheaper to buy, cheaper to mod, and can easily be made to go much faster for less money.

You said you liked the Dakota because it was cheaper than the lightning and with a few mods it could show it nothing but the tail gate.

All i am saying is it is going to be a hard sell for dodge. Most people who can afford to dump almost 50,000 for a truck, would not buy one that was two wheel drive and too pretty to hual anything. If they were looking for a performance vehicle they would buy a vette, viper, cobra, or any number of other performance cars that are much faster and more fitting. Chevy will run into the same problem with their new SSR. If is not big enough for luggage, it is too slow for a performance vehicle and cost too much. The only thing it has going for it is the convertible top.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I still dont see where the Dodge is faster.. I did tell you where to look for info on that....

As far as buying a used dodge and working it to make it faster then a lightning..Hellllllll Why not buy an old ranger and put a turbo 4 cylin it..And whip the crud of out of the dodge for penuts..Yeha but the lightning would still be 100* the truck the dodge is or a wokred ranger for that matter

Lightning less then stellar....I dont think youll find many lightning owners dissatisfied with thier trucks..

And not to flame here being this is an SC board....I love my SC..and I see you own one as well...Well quit frankly I put your Pickup in the same category as an SC..Nice but far from a performance vehicle..Sure you can work them up..Why not just buy the real thing..Owning a dodge pickup or even a Tbird SC is like being the underdog..I kind of like the challenge of making my SC fast kinda like you probably like the challenge of making your dodge come close to performing what a lightning does..

So what exactly would you have to do to your dodge to make it run a low 13??..Remeber the 13.2 the stock 2001 lightning ran....So I'm curious what it would take....And would it be as reliable as a stock lighting with that extra power...

Anyway we deviated from the original forum topic....For the same performance the dodge cost sa hellof alot more.....PERIOD..The lightning is cheaper to mod..And overall in my opinion a nicer truck.....However when teh new lightning come sout..Lets bring this topic back up..Im through with it

Wait,,,I guess Dodge will be challenging Ford for the worlds fastest production pickup title...Being Ford owns that one:O)

ANYWAY

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
All i am saying is it is going to be a hard sell for dodge. Most people who can afford to dump almost 50,000 for a truck, would not buy one that was two wheel drive and too pretty to hual anything. If they were looking for a performance vehicle they would buy a vette, viper, cobra, or any number of other performance cars that are much faster and more fitting. Chevy will run into the same problem with their new SSR. If is not big enough for luggage, it is too slow for a performance vehicle and cost too much. The only thing it has going for it is the convertible top.

So is that why all the SRT-10's being built for the '04 model year are already sold, and there is a waiting list to buy one?? The SRT-10 is a better value than the Lincoln Blackwood which was made by FoMoCo. And what about the new GT which is supposed to be the competition for the viper at more than twice the price.

All I'm saying is give some respect where it is due. The SRT-10 has already posted better numbers than any stock Lightning that I have seen in a magazine.

[1BADSC]

The GT is not supposed to be competition for the viper, Don't want to dissapoint you but the Viper doesn't have a shot.

The GT's competition is Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche. And by the way the only one of those cars that can best its performance in a straight line or on the track is the Ferrari Enzo which costs 650,000. The GT has already been tested against the Ferrari Autocross Edition and the Porsche GT3 and it absolutley left them in the dust. The only other car that could even come close to keeping up was the Saleen S7

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann
I still dont see where the Dodge is faster.. I did tell you where to look for info on that....

And I'm telling you that for published times from magazine drivers, the SRT-10 has already put up better numbers than any Lightning. And I've also mentioned that once they get into the hands of the owners who will learn to drive them and launch them properly, you will more than likely see 12 sec stock timeslips.

As far as buying a used dodge and working it to make it faster then a lightning..Hellllllll Why not buy an old ranger and put a turbo 4 cylin it..And whip the crud of out of the dodge for penuts..Yeha but the lightning would still be 100* the truck the dodge is or a wokred ranger for that matter

Where did I say anything about buying a used Dodge?? I bought my first R/T brand new for around $22K. I mean, if we are talking used vehicles, I've seen used Lightnings going for around $20K which IMO is a great price for what the truck is.

Lightning less then stellar....I dont think youll find many lightning owners dissatisfied with thier trucks..

Putting words in my mouth again. I admit the Lightning is a great truck for coming from the factory, but there is a hell of a lot more Ford could have done to it to make it even better, just like there is a lot Dodge could have done to the Dak R/T or the SRT-10 to make it better. Each truck has it's place, and they will all sell. The Dak R/T is for Dodge guys who like the old muscle car big motor in a small vehicle thing, and who want basically a clean slate to be able to make the power the way they want to. The Lightning is for the guy who wants a push button go fast truck with some potential to go faster. The SRT-10 is for the ultimate in push button performance trucks, and you pay for it as well.

And not to flame here being this is an SC board....I love my SC..and I see you own one as well...Well quit frankly I put your Pickup in the same category as an SC..Nice but far from a performance vehicle..Sure you can work them up..Why not just buy the real thing..Owning a dodge pickup or even a Tbird SC is like being the underdog..I kind of like the challenge of making my SC fast kinda like you probably like the challenge of making your dodge come close to performing what a lightning does..

I wouldn't put my truck in the same class as a SC. For one, it's a truck and can do a lot more than go fast. I have a Class 3 reciever onit and have used it to tow with. I've hauled well over the recomended weight in the bed with zero problems, and it hardly ever downshifts going uphill with the cruise set at 80+mph. Also, it's a lot easier and cheaper to mod my truck and make it fast. The SC takes a lot more to make it go fast. For under $5K, I have my truck running 13 sec 1/4 times all motor, or I coudl spend the same amount, go with a SC and be running 12's, or once again, the same $5K amount and be running 11's with nitrous. I don't have to worry about blowing head gaskets on my all motor truck, or throwing a SC belt, or SC fluid to worry about. It's not that big of a challenge to make these trucks run. To many people who know little about them are the ones talking trash and giving them the bad rep that they have. And what exactly do you mean by "the real thing"??? If you are talking about the Lightning, what makes it "the real thing??" I sure as hell don't consider it that.

So what exactly would you have to do to your dodge to make it run a low 13??..Remeber the 13.2 the stock 2001 lightning ran....So I'm curious what it would take....And would it be as reliable as a stock lighting with that extra power...

Custom computer flash---- $400
cold air intake----------------$200
larger throttle body---------$400
Mopar M1 intake manifold--$400
Mopar R/T heads-------------$1500
Mopar headers---------------$500
3" exhaust--------------------$200
and 26" slicks----------------$400(including 15" whels)
will put you in the 13's at a sea level track.

Anyway we deviated from the original forum topic....For the same performance the dodge cost sa hellof alot more.....PERIOD..The lightning is cheaper to mod..And overall in my opinion a nicer truck.....However when teh new lightning come sout..Lets bring this topic back up..Im through with it

I still don't see where you think it's the same performance. It's not. Two totally different beasts. Dodge is making it's power without a SC, and Ford decides to use a SC. Once they real numbers from actual owners start getting posted, we will see who's on top in the stock performance truck world, and I'd put money down that it's not the Lightning

Wait,,,I guess Dodge will be challenging Ford for the worlds fastest production pickup title...Being Ford owns that one:O)

And what is the record that the Lightning set??

[90 SC rotten]

All I have to say is how different is forced induction from slapping on 2 more cylinders.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 90 SC rotten
All I have to say is how different is forced induction from slapping on 2 more cylinders.

Because with a N/A motor, you still have the option of forced induction to go faster. I've seen a lot of Lightning guys swapping out their blowers to run faster. What's the point in that?? They might as well have just bought a N/A 5.4L F-150 to begin with and saved themselves some money. Also, a N/A motor will last longer than a forced induction motor. The sc puts extra strain on the motor. Which is the reason my Dakota is staying n/a.

[Darkside]

HSKR, the dodge will be the next Cyclone/typhoon(remember those 1BADSC?). GM built one hell of a truck, then it disappeared. Why? I'm not really sure. Anyway, I am thinking this new Dadge, yes, Dadge, will share the same fate. There is a reason the Lightning has survived. It's simply awesome. The Dadge may be quicker, faster and uglier, oops, that slipped, but I can't see Dadge doing anything long term with this project. The N/A vs. forced induction argument is weak. The '04 Lightning uses "only" a 330 ci. V8 as it's powerplant. The Dadge has a 505 ci. V10. I think with that much engine putting out only 500 HP you should reconsider your praises. And then Dadge puts this engine in big ol PIG. The SRT LMNOP\10 or whatever it's called is a FAT PIG. Then again, I am a die hard, true blue Ford guy so my opinions may be slightly biased. Damon, you're fun-ny!:D

[BIRDPLUCKER]

JEEZ 500 HP OUT OF 505 C.I.D, I THOUGHT ALL THE MANUFACTURERS COULD AT LEAST GET 1HP PER CUBIC INCH. BY THE WAY, I HAVE A 97 DODGE DAKOTA ONLY BECAUSE A FREIND GAVE IT TO ME!!

[HSKR]

So what's this awsome 330ci powerplant in the Lightnings put down for HP without the blower??

You all have your opinions and I have mine. IMO, the Lightning looks like an oversized grub worm(specially the white ones), and what's the deal with no club cab option?? And before you try to reply saying the SRT-10 is only regular cab, just wait a year when they release the CC version. That SC'd 5.4 must be one hell of a motor that they decided to stop using it for the Harley Davidson trucks. Of course maybe the Harleys were just to close to performance with the Lightnings and Ford couldn't have two trucks competing against each other.

Youwonder why the Sy/Ty's died off?? Well, it was because of reliability issues with the turbo charged motors and high cost of manufacture. You know, kinda like the reason there was no '02 Corba. Yeah, Ford builds some winners themselves.

[1BADSC]

There were no o2 Cobras because brilliant Ford engineers screwed up the intake design and decided to just smash the exhasut by the rear axles instead of routing around them. Never heard of any realiabiltiy issues.

[94thundachicken]

Originally posted by BIRDPLUCKER
JEEZ 500 HP OUT OF 505 C.I.D, I THOUGHT ALL THE MANUFACTURERS COULD AT LEAST GET 1HP PER CUBIC INCH. BY THE WAY, I HAVE A 97 DODGE DAKOTA ONLY BECAUSE A FREIND GAVE IT TO ME!!


Exactly!!! Dodge's v10 is 8L and is only putting out 500hp, Ford's v10 is 6.4L and puts out 605hp. And of course if you put a sc on your dakota it would be faster, it has a a bigger engine than the Lightning. Ford could release the v10 engine, but they stay true to their roots producing affordable cars. In doing so they are able to market their vehicles to the average person, allowing more than just the upper classes to afford these vehicles.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

BTW I was just being a wiseguy with my comparisons..However

http://ftw.truckmoxie.com/news/guinness.asp


Only a matter of time before Dodge challenges that..However by then then the new lightning will be out:O)

[MIKE 38sc]

By the way some of you talk you seem to think Dodges V10 is pretty heavily modified and just about maxed out. Thats not the case at all. That motor does'nt come from the factory hopped up at all, not in any vehical they sell it in. Theres alot of hidden horsepower just waiting to be released.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

d

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Actually the V10 in the Dakota is a hopped up version of the viper motor...

http://www.dodgeboy.net/news/ram/index.htm



And I dont think anyone including myself would say the v10 viper motor is not powerful..Or that ist at its fullpotential...What motor from teh factory is ever at its full potential??? Basically stock 03 cobra in teh 9's..Lightning drive to teh track and run tens then drive home...What is being said is that it will be costly to mod teh v10 truck just like a Viper..

You talk about a dodge on a ford forum you will get crap from people....Personaly my blood runs blue:O)..Not everyone here is like that but I am...It will be interesting to see however what they do with this dodge..Maybe we can have a Lightning/Dakota shootout ..Reminicent of the GN vrs Stang Shootouts (Of course we know the outcome of a majority of those)

In the End Ford puts out a good product at a great price..And thats why they sell...Keep in mind 99% of the automotive market in non performance oriented..Yetr Ford Still has the mentality races won well cars..And its good to see Dodge actually stepping in with a substantial competition to the Lightning...However Pricewise ist like comparing a Viper to a Mustang..For the extra bucks..The two tenths of a second are irrelevant.

And how could you compare a blackwood to anything performance related!!!!!!!..Its a sweet ride..to rich for my taste

Also...The Harley edition f150 was a detuned version of the lightning,..It was never intended to compete with it

And....I hate pickups regardless!!!!

[mannysc]

Damon is right

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann
BTW I was just being a wiseguy with my comparisons..However

http://ftw.truckmoxie.com/news/guinness.asp


Only a matter of time before Dodge challenges that..However by then then the new lightning will be out:O)

The SRT-10 is supposed to have a 158mph governed top end.

[1BADSC]

not goverend it is drag limited. to 153 or 157. Can't remember which.

[HSKR]

Where you getting that the SRT-10 ram is a hopped up viper motor?? It's a direct drop in directly from the Viper production line. That website talks about the new for '03 Viper motor that is a bored and stroked version of the older Viper motor. The only thing modified from the viper to work in the SRT-10 Ram is the tranny.

Also, there is no Dakota with the V-10, it's the Ram. If they dropped the V-10 in the Dakata(which it will fit into) then Ford would have to work a lot harder to compete with it.

As far as Fords "races won sell cars" mentality, is that why they use the Taurus for Nascar?? The only performance car they sold that had any use in racing was the Mustang, and evan that's not used much cept for NHRA.

And I used the Blackwood to show that Ford does sell some overpriced vehicles which you claimed the SRT-10 is.

[1BADSC]

For sold the Blackwood for less than one year before they realized that no one wanted a Lincoln Truck other than Rappers.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

The SRT-10..Has not and does not hold the world record for fastest production truck..As I stated untill Dodge thinks they can and does ifact go through the process to claim that title..THEY DO NOT HAVE IT!!!!..Last year there were claims the SRT-10 would be doing 12.9 from the factory..That changed to 13.8 mighty quick. Eh well....

As far as the winning races sells cars....Do you think Ford needs to race Mustangs to sell Tauruses?...No..Mustangs sell themselves..Its all about advertising and marketing....What do you think Dodge races??? I saw a few Avengers out there...Ooooooaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeeahhhhhhhh haha.. Commone now..

The blackwood was a Ford Marketing error. Who wants a luxury pickup..Noone really..However it is one nice peice of machinery..

As for the SRT-10, it will sell for awhile then the bottom willdrop out. I dont see much a market for a 50,000 performance pickup. Once the market is saturated with them they will be *ssed out..They best keep it a very limited production vehicle.

In the end Ford still has the worlds FASTEST production pickup
The new F150 has won truck of the year
And Im sure when the new lightning comes out it will once again win that coveted performance truck of the year award or whatever it is.

[HSKR]

Man, damonslowpoke, you take **** totally the wrong way and like to put words in my mouth. I never said that Dodge held the record, I merely stated that the SRT-10 is supposed to have a goverened top speed of 158mph, so when/if they decide to go after the record, it would be possible to take it. Please don't talk about that which you have only read about in magazines, especially if you can't even comprehend what you read enough to talk about it. Stick to Fords since that's all you seem to know. Me personally, I'll keep up with my variety of knowledge of more than one brand.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann
The new F150 has won truck of the year
And Im sure when the new lightning comes out it will once again win that coveted performance truck of the year award or whatever it is.

Where did Ford win truck of the year?? Not in Sport Truck.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I didnt say SPORT TRUCk..However I did mention if the new lightning came out this year along with the new f150 line..They would have won it...

Also I never said you said dodge held the record..Just merely stated the facts once again that FORD DOES..

As for the 158mph top speed..Dont read everything you see in magazines...::shakkin head::

As for your vast knowledge of ALL makes.....I just see a bias towards dodges..Kinda like I have one for fords..But I admit that:O)

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann
I didnt say SPORT TRUCk..However I did mention if the new lightning came out this year along with the new f150 line..They would have won it...

Also I never said you said dodge held the record..Just merely stated the facts once again that FORD DOES..

As for the 158mph top speed..Dont read everything you see in magazines...::shakkin head::

As for your vast knowledge of ALL makes.....I just see a bias towards dodges..Kinda like I have one for fords..But I admit that:O)

Hey man, here's a website you might want to check out.
http://www.understandmore.com/?overture=rdcomp
Because it seems you need it. Go back, re-read my posts, and try again. Because you are way out of the ballpark on you statements.

As far as my bias towards Dodge, maybe, but at least I give the Lightnings the respect they deserve for what they are. You on the other hand can't even admit that Dodge released a superior performance truck that can and will beat the Lightning straight off the showroom floor. Doesn't matter by how much, but it does beat it in every performance catagory.

And the Truck of the year thing, the mighty Nissan Titan beat the Ford F-150 in Sport Trucvks truck of the year. And you still didn't answer my question about where the Ford won truck of the year.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

No need to get all pissy now..

http://www.trucktrend.com/oftheyear/truck/112_04_toy_announce/
YUP MOTOR TREND TRUCK OF THE YEAR 2004....F150

There was no lightning this year..THUS HOW CAN IT WIN A SPORTTRUCK OF THE YEAR AWARD..IT HASNT BEEN PRODUCED!!!

I never mentioned Ford winning that tital..This year,,However when the new lightning comes out...Guess who will get it

Also never said the Dodge truck isnt a performer..But a tenth or two for 20,000....Umm Commone now..

So where is it that I'm not following along??

You are the one that isnt following here..I mean..How much can you know about trucks..If you didnt even know Ford won TRUCK OF THE YEAR..You can get pissy again :O)

::takkin bow::

Oh..and perhaps you need to read whatever that link leads too:)

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann

So where is it that I'm not following along??

You are the one that isnt following here..I mean..How much can you know about trucks..If you didnt even know Ford won TRUCK OF THE YEAR..You can get pissy again :O)

::takkin bow::

Oh..and perhaps you need to read whatever that link leads too:)

How bout trying to put words in my mouth that I never said. And as far as Motor Trend, I don't read that because except for it's truck of the year issue it ain't got **** for trucks, and rarely has anything Dodge in it. And Sport Truck who deals more with trucks and how useful they actually are voted the Nissan Titan as thier Truck of the Year over the Ford. And never did I mention the Lightning for Truck of the Year, so once again putting words in my mouth. Goes along with that read comprehension I talked about. You sure you need to be taking bows, and not courtseys(sp?)?? And even then, you ain't posted nothing to be bowing over other than making yourself look stupid.

[1BADSC]

Car and Driver Gave first place to the Titan as well.

[T-bird4vr]

If you ask me there is just too much grill for my personal taste. no wonder it is drag limited to 158 or whatever. The rest does look pretty nice though.

I have to agree with Damon that forced induction is just funner to drive.


http://www.dodgeboy.net/news/ram/images/551792t2004_013_jpg.jpg

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Motor Trend is where it all began as far as truck/car of the year..I'm sure every mag has its own version of that...

Sport truck also had the s10 extreme as sport truck of the year...Helloooooo..

And not once did I put words in your mouth..Get a better comprehension of the English language and you will see that..

Regardless you have your views and I have mine. I'm just going to be a man about this and stop posting..Just not worth my time anymore..I know where I stand regardless.

Have a nice day:O)

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann

And not once did I put words in your mouth..Get a better comprehension of the English language and you will see that..


Have a nice day:O)

You want me to go back and start quoting some of your replies to prove you wrong about that???

[V6TERROR]

Lightning Vs. Srt-10: Right Click, Save as:D

http://www.haloclub.com/movies/LvsSRT10a.wmv

[1BADSC]

LOL nice.

[mannysc]

PLAY NICE KIDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE

man your all sounding like me he said i said she said ,

nuff said !!!Ive read the post over and over and there was never a reason to start all this bs , I like all of you who are involved in this ,

and can choose no winner or loser,
so why not show your inner beauty and drop it , im more impressed by the man who can walk away from a arguement,

so take it from a expert at argueing its better droped and you stay friends.

oh yeah I like the dodge + the ford . but dont like chevys ,

so kiss kiss hug hug have a nice day .

[1BADSC]

I like Chevy's :)

[Darkside]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
I like Chevy's :)

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!:mad:

You also like sacrificing camels for your interiors as well!:D

[1BADSC]

and baby seals for my polishing pads. :)

[HSKR]

Originally posted by V6TERROR
Lightning Vs. Srt-10: Right Click, Save as:D

http://www.haloclub.com/movies/LvsSRT10a.wmv

Interesting that the video cuts off before the times are posted. The Lightning was obviously modified, so why not show the times? Wonder what each one ran. Did they post the times on the HALO forums?? I'll check with a couple of my Houston friends to find out simnce they are active with the HALO guys.

[HSKR]

Just checked with the guys I know in Houston. The Lightning had chip, filter, pulley, exhaust, and slicks. Most people know, those few mods will put the Lightning in the low 12's easy. The SRT-10 was bone stock, was the owners first time to the track and he supposedly missed 2nd gear shift. Even still, a bone stock SRT-10 won't run much better than high 12's.

[Micahdogg]

I'm going to take this opportunity to interject my relatively unbiased opinion on both....since I will probably never own either truck.

The Ram rocks. It's got awesome style and awesome power. Plus it's got trick 22 inch wheels...and a trick daddy shock for the differential (to help quell wheel hop). Plus, if you like to shift....then it's obvious which truck you will be interested in. However, at those prices....there will be a very select group of people who buy the truck. For much less money, the Lightning does everything you would want. It's fast, sporty, and can haul/tow lots of stuff.

Stock for Stock....even the blown 5.4L Lightning cannot hang with the Ram. I suspect stoplight races will be close since the RAM has to be manually shifted....and when you have 500HP/500ft-lbs and a light azz bed pushing down on the tires.....the thing will be a nightmare to get hooked and pointed in the right direction. The Lightning on the other hand....with some feathering of the throttle will effortlessly hang with it or flat out beat the RAM.

IF you are rolling at 30-40-50mph though....and decided to punch it. The Ram will chew the Lighting up and spit it out. It should be trapping at a GOOD 5 more mph.

As for parts with both trucks.....yeah, Viper stuff is expensive. I guarantee you can't get a set of headers for even TWICE what JBA's go for on the Lightning. Throttle bodies....gotta buy two of em. Mopar V10 stuff is noticeably more expensive no matter how you cut it. Just look around for any parts. Even a cat back exhaust I would bet is going to be MORE expensive than the Lightning.

As for what I would pick? I would take the Lightning. It's cheaper....and it responds AMAZINGLY well to just a filter, pulley, chip, and full exhaust. And even on the high side, you are only looking at $2000 in mods. I imagine a full SRT 10 Exhaust system alone would be near $2000

Plus I don't want the aggrivation of trying to shift all that power (especially through a really long throw shifter).

The Ram is very cool. It would be a lot cooler if it were cheaper. But the lightning will continue to offer the best package at the best cost.

Micah

[HSKR]

Originally posted by Micahdogg
I'm going to take this opportunity to interject my relatively unbiased opinion on both....since I will probably never own either truck.

As for parts with both trucks.....yeah, Viper stuff is expensive. I guarantee you can't get a set of headers for even TWICE what JBA's go for on the Lightning. Throttle bodies....gotta buy two of em. Mopar V10 stuff is noticeably more expensive no matter how you cut it. Just look around for any parts. Even a cat back exhaust I would bet is going to be MORE expensive than the Lightning.

The new V-10 only takes one TB, and I know a guy who makes custom billet ones cheaper than the factory replacement ones. Yes parts are going to be more expensive, but with the V-10 being nomrally asperated, there is a lot more potential for mods than the Lightning has since it's already SC'd from the factory. I know of one SRT-10 in Idaho that is already in a shop getting a custom twin turbo set up installed on it.

And even on the high side, you are only looking at $2000 in mods. I imagine a full SRT 10 Exhaust system alone would be near $2000

Come on now, do you really think a cat back exhaust is going to cost $2K??? I'll bet you can go to any exhaust shop and get a custom dual exhaust built for around $500-600.

The Ram is very cool. It would be a lot cooler if it were cheaper. But the lightning will continue to offer the best package at the best cost.

Micah

I'd be willing to put money down that when the '05 Lightning finally get released, and if it keeps the performance that is claimed it will be equally priced with what the SRT-10 is right now. And don't expect Dodge to not make any changes to the SRT-10. Then, we will see about best packages and stuff.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

::shakkin head::


:D

[Darkside]

::shakkin head::

Me too!:rolleyes:

[Micahdogg]

Full exhaust = headers, mid section, cat back. For the V-10 I would expect $2000. I mean, just headers alone for a Viper are $1300-$2800. Yeah, just headers. Go to moreperformanceinc.com, jr-motorsport.com, etc... I'm telling you, flat out you will pay more for parts on the V-10 than the Lightning. Even if they have a single throttle body and some guy is making a custom one for cheap.....it ain't gonna beat the price of Lightning stuff.

And since the Lightning is already supercharged is WHY it performs better to mods than a SRT-10. Long term...yes, the V10 has more displacement and can climb into the 700-800-900-1000 HP range more reliably, but dude, for all of $400 you can install a blower pulley and get dyno tuned and pump probably somewhere around 50+ RWHP out of the Lightning. What can you do for $400 on the SRT10 that reacts that well?

The lightning WILL be cheaper and it will react better to mods innitially. You know, this is the same old arguement for why the LS1's are still superior to the new Cobra's. I hear so many people say, "Yeah, well if I installed a supercharger....." and that's all that ever comes of it...."IF". Most people don't install their own superchargers. A lot of people who buy these vehicles don't even modify them...and if they do, they do the basic bolt ons because they either need the vehicle to be reliable or they don't have cash to go full blown race with it, or they don't have the desire to.

But if you like the SRT10 better...then that's cool. There just happen to be a few facts that don't change.

Micah

[1BADSC]

I have a solution for the problem. how about The new Kenne Bell Blowzilla for the 5.7 Hemi Dodge Ram. It made 517 HP and 527lbs-ft or torque. May just be a cheaper solution to the SRT-10. And probably faster since it can be had with an automatic and doesn't have those massive tires to turn. Oh by the way, the stock Hemi made 281 RWHP and the Blowzilla made that 517 at the rear wheels.

[MIKE 38sc]

Did you guy's know that the new Lightning will have IRS?
Both Tom Scarpello and John Colleti of SVT have said the targeted price for the new Lightning is $40,000-$45,000. They have also said the new Cobra should be in the $40,000 range as well.
Just food for thought.:)

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I wonder what would make the new Cobra cost 12,000 over the base v8 mustangs price..

And being the lightning is based on the new F150....

I guess we will just have to seeeeeeeee

[1BADSC]

Probably because the new Cobra is going to be pushing a lot more HP in order to keep up with the new line of Vettes. Base Vette 6.0 liter 402 HP, Z06 500+Hp

[HSKR]

The Viper comes from the factory with headers already installed. Granted, they may not be the best performing headers available, but definitly better than manifolds. So from the collectors back is all you would really have to swap. And I agree, it will be more expensive to modify, but with two vehicles on the market with the same engine, the price of parts will drop slightly due to higher demand, and most of the Vipers I have seen were modified in some way, so I'm sure there will be more than a few owners modifying the SRT-10 as well. Most people aren't satisfied with stock performance no matter how good it is.

There is always going to be someone faster than you. All it takes is money. Like I've said before, Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go??? For some, the SRT-10 Ram is right up their alley for performance and potential.

And it looks like Mike 38SC has confirmed my guess that the new Lightning will be comparably priced to the SRT-10. One guy in my Dakota R/T club just bought a new SRT-10 for under $45K, and another was offered one for $40K from a dealer. Most dealers are putting huge dealer mark ups on them though, and $60K after dealer markup isn't unheard of, and I've heard of one listed at $70K. Worste part is some fool will actually pay the price too.

[MIKE 38sc]

And it looks like Mike 38SC has confirmed my guess that the new Lightning will be comparably priced to the SRT-10. One guy in my Dakota R/T club just bought a new SRT-10 for under $45K, and another was offered one for $40K from a dealer. Most dealers are putting huge dealer mark ups on them though, and $60K after dealer markup isn't unheard of, and I've heard of one listed at $70K. Worste part is some fool will actually pay the price too.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now I'm not saying that those prices are chiseled in stone, all I'm saying is that was reported to members of the SVTOA by the leadership and printed in an issue of SVT Enthusiast magazine.
Ford has been pretty up front about it and they have control to squash the story if it was'nt being thought about because they have final say about what gets printed in that mag. Ford has complete editorial control over the SVT Enthusiast mag.

Those huge markups by dealers is nothing new, its been going on since the very first Vipers and maybe long before that. I first became aware of the dealer gouge back when the first Vipers were coming out and I tried to buy one. Since then it happened with Prowlers and PT Cruisers and continues today with each one of those models.
I looked at a new Cobra a couple of days ago and it had a sticker price of $33,000.00 so its not that hard for me to see them jump the price to $40,000.00 by the time the new one hits the streets.

[Micahdogg]

The "headers" that come factory are never "headers" that anyone with half a brain would brag about having. I remember some guy at the pool hall arguing his heart out that 5.0L Fox bodies came with headers. Well...yeah, technically they did. But they SUCKED?!

Same with Viper...long tube aftermarket headers have proven 18HP gains at the wheels. Dyno charts to back em up. So it's kind of a mod that would be good for the Viper or SRT-10. And it kind of cost "insano" pricing. Whereas the Lightning headers are kind of A LOT cheaper. Sure, you could pass them up. You don't need them. But why do you want a truck that you can't afford to modify..which is my point all along

It's funny to listen to you justify a more expensive truck, that will be more expensive to modify...that innitially (first 100HP extra or so) will cost more to modify.

I call it as it is. The truck isn't a POS. It's very nice. And I really like the style and overall package. It's is probably thee trickest factory truck available. But don't tell me the price is acceptible. Or it can be somewhat affordable to hotrod (if the stars are aligned), and hypothetically with X amount of purchasers you might see Y reduction in pricing, or that it will even offer better performance per dollar than the lightning. It's just not so.

Micah

[mannysc]

you tell em micah!!!!! best bang for buck , lightning.

best truck id say dodge ,

if i had unlimited $$$$$ rt 10 all the way .

i love that truck . but reality says i cant spend that much $$$$
so best afordable truck that kicks butt is ford,

[Palmguy]

Originally posted by HSKR
Like I said earlier. typical responses from Ford fans who can't stand that the Lightning isn't top dog anymore. And even in the new '05 Lightning performs like Ford hopes it will, it still takes a supercharged motor in a lighter truck to run the same times as the normally asperated SRT-10. Face it. For now, the almighty Lightning isn't king of the hill anymore. .


Blah blah blah...yeah, the Lightning is blown. That is an advantage that it has. The Ram has almost 3 extra liters and two extra cylinders, that is it's advantage. What is your point about the fact that the Lightning is blown? I'm sure that Ford could have built a 8-something liter V-10 for the L as well, but they are going with a 330ci V8.

[mannysc]

ya know ill bet dodge has a proto type blown v 10 somehwere .
imagine the power.

[1BADSC]

Doubt it Manny, Dodge has always been a turbo company, so it would probably be a turbocharged SRT-10. Matter of fact, I can't remember one vehicle from Dodge that was supercharged.

[MIKE 38sc]

They sold bolt on blower kits in the Direct Connection catalogue during the 80's for the 2.2 4 cylinder.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I do think the Ram is a nice truck....Just to costly

I have to disagree on the v10 being able to be modded more reliably...When your talking 600 700 800 hp natuarally aspirated....That is a LOT of stress on the motor..

With a blown car under normal driving conditions its civil....And can be sedate even...And remeber the motor is made to handle the boost...Ford could have made a 400 hp naturally aspirated 5.4...But it would have been at the expense of drivability..Higher compression..Larger cams ect ect...Ford knows what there doing with offering a roots powered vehicle...And that is the reason they are staying away from turboes

[HSKR]

Originally posted by Micahdogg
It's funny to listen to you justify a more expensive truck, that will be more expensive to modify...that innitially (first 100HP extra or so) will cost more to modify.

Micah

You know, I say the same thing about the Lightning owners trying to justify the extra price they paid for the Lightning over the Dakota R/T.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann
I do think the Ram is a nice truck....Just to costly

I have to disagree on the v10 being able to be modded more reliably...When your talking 600 700 800 hp natuarally aspirated....That is a LOT of stress on the motor..

With a blown car under normal driving conditions its civil....And can be sedate even...And remeber the motor is made to handle the boost...Ford could have made a 400 hp naturally aspirated 5.4...But it would have been at the expense of drivability..Higher compression..Larger cams ect ect...Ford knows what there doing with offering a roots powered vehicle...And that is the reason they are staying away from turboes

Not much into building motors are you?? The reliability is all in the tune, the parts used, and how the vehicle is driven. Any vehicle when driven "civil" can be reliable as hell, but who really buys a performance vehicle to drive civil?? Needless to say, you have to modify a Lighting to hang with a stock SRT-10, and anytime you start modifying a vehicle from stock, you decrease reliability. Especially when you start swapping SC pulleys, and box flashed computer moduals.

As far as the whole turbo vs SC debate, the import scene has been suing turbo's reliably for years. Look at Volvo. Some of the most reliable cars on the road, and they use turbo's. When set up properly, the turbo is more efficient, and more reliable than a SC.

[1BADSC]

if you sneeze on the Lightning it will smoke the SRT-10. :)

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
if you sneeze on the Lightning it will smoke the SRT-10. :)

If you sneeze on the Lighting, it might blow a spark plug, or an intercooler, or any of the other performance problems that have plagued it since it was released. Of course most of those were caused by people modifying it beyond stock where it was made to run.

[1BADSC]

i don't see too many people complaning about any broken parts.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
i don't see too many people complaning about any broken parts.

The spark plug issue is bad enough for them to create a poll over it.

http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=59586

This thread, one guy posts that the stock bottom ends are unpredictable after 12lbs of boost

http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=61876&highlight=blew

Here's another poll just for blown motors for the year of the truck.

http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=61426&highlight=blew

And that's just what I found on a quick search. Seems to me quite a few people are complaining.

[92silverlx]

so why do you own a supercharged ford product????????? if u fart on the lightning it will smoke the SRT-10

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 92silverlx
so why do you own a supercharged ford product????????? if u fart on the lightning it will smoke the SRT-10

Why do I own one?? Because the '94-'97 Thunderbird is the only Ford car I have liked, and that fact that I found a '94 5-speed SC in nice shape for $2K. I like manual transmissions, and the T-bird was the only car in my price range that both me and my wife could agree on. I've never bashed the T-bird, and wasn't trying to bash the Lightning until others tried to make it sound like gods gift to Sport trucks.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

But the lightning is Gods gift to sports trucks..Not untill recently did anyone come up with anything close..And the dodge is close but a day late and a dollar short..Or is that a few years to late and too many dollars more?

There was always the Syclone back in the day..But much like the GN it was a fast POS

[1BADSC]

Mainly because it is. :)


Just having fun with you.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann
But the lightning is Gods gift to sports trucks..Not untill recently did anyone come up with anything close..And the dodge is close but a day late and a dollar short..Or is that a few years to late and too many dollars more?

There was always the Syclone back in the day..But much like the GN it was a fast POS

As far as factory sport trucks, you're right, nothing close until the SRT-10 came out and beat the L. But everyone keeps refering to the price of the SRT-10 and that they think it's overpriced, well, the same can be said about the Lightning compared to the Dak R/T. I think the Lightning is overpriced for what it is. Especially for all the guys who swap to the KB blowers. For the price they paid, they could have bought a regular F-150, put the same parts on it and saved about $5K.

[Brad94SC]

Lightning/SRT-10/Dakota/Titan...... bah.....





get a real truck!!!!

http://www.peterbilt.com/images/gal_l_387_2.jpg

[1BADSC]

what is with the Dakota R/T. 15.4 @89mph stock.

Lightning 1/4 mile in 13.9 stock.

The difference between the L and the SRT are not that far apart, if at all.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Yeah the tenth or two of a second for 20,000 more...... Thats over priced..Why people mention price

And a reg ford f150's motor is nothing like a lightning motor..

Swapping a KB blower in..Well I wouldnt do it..But these people want low 11 high 10 sec trucks...I guess thats what they need

A stock lightning motor in a fox bodied stang is running in the tens,,Wonder what a stock SRT-10 motor in a viper would run....

Anyone see the v10 Ford threw together in a late model stang..Short stroke completely streetable..Low compression 5.7 liter pushing out Mid 400 HP range ..Motor was a 4.6 with 2 cylinders added,,Yeah cut and weld babay...Was in last issue of MM&FF

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
what is with the Dakota R/T. 15.4 @89mph stock.

Lightning 1/4 mile in 13.9 stock.

The difference between the L and the SRT are not that far apart, if at all.

And your point is?????? You agree that the Lightning is overpriced compared to the R/T??

Stock for stock, a SRT-10 is faster than the Lightning. Once you start talking modded vehicles, it comes down to run what ya brung, and hope you brung enough. Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go??? And if you have to compare a modded vehicles performance to the stock performance of another, you are already losing the race.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

We have still yet to see that Dodge run at the track...At least from what I been reading on other boards..I'm sure however that low 12's should be easily within reach.

Its a wait and see thing now

[1BADSC]

What part of STOCK R/T vs Stock Light. sounded like comparing modified to unmodified?

I am saying for the price difference between the Dakota and the L there is a large difference in all around performance.

Where the price difference between the L and the SRT-10 do not justify the difference.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
What part of STOCK R/T vs Stock Light. sounded like comparing modified to unmodified?

I am saying for the price difference between the Dakota and the L there is a large difference in all around performance.

Where the price difference between the L and the SRT-10 do not justify the difference.

I was talking about the fact that the Lighting has to be modifed to beat a stock SRT-10. And the only race between the two trucks I have seen was a modified Lighting against a bone stock 1 week old SRT-10, and the person holding the video camera talking **** about the Dodge. Just goes to show the attitude some people have about competition.

And as far as the difference in "all around" performance between a stock Lighting, and Stock R/T, I'm going to have to disagree. You get the two on a autocross track stock for stock and the R/T will win. The R/T is more than just a go straight vehicle. All around performance includes everything, not just 1/4 mile racing. And even the 1/4 mile time difference can be made up quickly once you start modding the Dak.

[1BADSC]

Officially announced; these specs confirmed 11/03 (published 2/03!)
0-60 in 5.2 seconds
13.8 second quarter mile
.92 g skid-pad

Stock for stock it is a dead heat. Slicks would make a difference but stock for stock this is what you get, and how about the six foot shifter. :)


That was from Allpar.com "For Chrysler owners and Enthusiasts.

One fact about it is that it ran the 0-100-0 test in 18seconds and that is faster than most cars ever produced.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
Officially announced; these specs confirmed 11/03 (published 2/03!)
0-60 in 5.2 seconds
13.8 second quarter mile
.92 g skid-pad

Stock for stock it is a dead heat. Slicks would make a difference but stock for stock this is what you get, and how about the six foot shifter. :)


That was from Allpar.com "For Chrysler owners and Enthusiasts.

One fact about it is that it ran the 0-100-0 test in 18seconds and that is faster than most cars ever produced.

So what about the 13.1 time that Sport Truck got out of a stock SRT-10???? Think maybe it might be a little underrated so as not to raise to many hopes??

[94thundachicken]

The reason the L costs more than the Dakota R/T is because it is in a different class. A base F150 also costs more than a base Dakota. You can't really compare the prices of the 2 trucks. Whereas the F150 and the RAM are in the same class. And as stated earlier, several times, SRT10 is a great truck, but for a couple of a tenths of a second its not worth the $20,000.
But lets say you did want to compare all 3:
Originally posted by 1BADSC
what is with the Dakota R/T. 15.4 @89mph stock.
Lightning 1/4 mile in 13.9 stock.
SRT 10 13.8 second quarter mile

The Dakota is smaller truck and in a different class, but we'll look past that in terms of price and go purely on performance for the comparison.

Dakota R/T is about $7,000 to $10,000 less than a L, but loses by a SECOND AND A HALF in the quarter mile, whereas the L is $15,000 to $20,000 less than the SRT10 but only ONE TENTH OF A SECOND slower.

If it makes you feel any better we'll compare the Dakota R/T to the Ranger, now they are about the same price and in the same class. The Ranger will get **** on hands down. I dont think anyone will argue against that. I'm not even going to look up the quarter mile times for a Ranger. Hell I dont think anyone would even bother to bring the truck down to the track.

[Micahdogg]

YOu can't compare the R/T to a Lightning. R/T's are nice trucks...I even thought about buying one. But in the end...it's a 5.9L engine that puts out what...260HP? My 99 5.4L F150 has 265HP/340ft-lbs.

And you do have to consider the Dakota is a mid size compared to a Full size. My friend paid $25K for his 01 Dakota R/T Motorsport and I paid $25 for my 99 F150 Nascar edition. He is the one wanting the full size truck now and I'm just hoping to pay this thing off.

Dakota's are nice....for $25K. And yes, a lot of people would chose a relatively good performing, handling, and looking truck for a good $10,000 cheaper than the Lightning. But the Lightning is the ONLY truck that does not feel like a truck. It feels like a mustang. IT acclerates well, brakes well, and handles well. You would never know it was over 5000lbs....and you can't get that in a Dakota.

Another thing.....you can't just "supercharge" a 5.4L and save X amount of money. We all know that the best laid plans can go to crap..and just cause you invest $4500 in aftermarket stuff doesn't mean that your truck will ever run right again. When my 5.4L gets mileage on it and shows problems...I would like to buy a crate 5.4L Lightning engine to swap in. Why do that and not just forge and supercharge my engine? Cause Ford ENGINEERED the L motor. They built it to be reliable to 100K.

When you go supercharging or turbocharging or modding vehicles to double the output....you never get a solid engine like the big Manufactures can produce. You always have to make adjustments or deal with stupid problems (why do I keep smoking fuel pressure regulators?) And for my daily driver...I DON'T need that.

And Damon...I wasn't necessarily talking about the Viper motor saying n/a at those power levels. I still think they would be more reliable at say 1000HP, but that's just an assumption.

Micah

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

So what about the 13.1 time that Sport Truck got out of a stock SRT-10???? Think maybe it might be a little underrated so as not to raise to many hopes??


Much earlier in this post I sent a link to where there was a stock lightning running a 13.2.....I still dont see where this is going..Anyway we will have to wait for the new lightning to come out being there is no lightning this year to justly compare to the srt-10

[HSKR]

Originally posted by Micahdogg
But the Lightning is the ONLY truck that does not feel like a truck. It feels like a mustang. IT acclerates well, brakes well, and handles well. You would never know it was over 5000lbs....and you can't get that in a Dakota.

Micah

You can tell you don't own nor have driven a real Dakota R/T. The R/T will and does out handle a Lighting stock for stock, and feels nothing like a normal truck. The Lightnings I have ridden in felt more like a truck than my R/T. They sit high in the air, and have more body roll in corners.

As far as your friend, there was never a "Motorsports Edition" Dakota R/T.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann
Much earlier in this post I sent a link to where there was a stock lightning running a 13.2.....I still dont see where this is going..Anyway we will have to wait for the new lightning to come out being there is no lightning this year to justly compare to the srt-10

And was that by a magazine driver, or an owner who had been to the track several times and learned how to drive his truck at the track to get the best performance?? I can post a magazine article with modified Lightnings that ran high 13's, and stock Lightnings running low 14's, but that doesn't mean it's the norm. The SRT-10 has been in the hands of woners less than a month, and very few have been to the track enough to learn how to launch them. Especially with the manual transmission and 500hp on tap.

[94thundachicken]

I know this truck is heavily modded but it would destroy both the L and the srt10 (presuming they're both stock of course). HSKR you might wanna do some of this to your RT. http://www.dakotart.com/club/truck.html

[94thundachicken]

And yes he "HATES FORDS":eek:

[1BADSC]

I know of a Top Fuel Dragster that will beat everything but is heavily modified.

[94thundachicken]

exactly:D

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I have a lightly modded OLD mustang that will dam near kill most everything we been talking about on this thread.... With the top down and the tunes blasting of course;O)

[J57ltr]

Jumping jesus on a pogo stick this thread is still going? man over 100 posts and not a damn thing solved.

Jeff

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

It is kinda monotonous eh? lmao

I said before..Ill never back down..My blood runs blue!

[1BADSC]

you should get that checked Damon. :)

[Micahdogg]

You can tell you don't own nor have driven a real Dakota R/T. The R/T will and does out handle a Lighting stock for stock, and feels nothing like a normal truck. The Lightnings I have ridden in felt more like a truck than my R/T. They sit high in the air, and have more body roll in corners.

As far as your friend, there was never a "Motorsports Edition" Dakota R/T.

You are right. It's not an R/T. Turns out it's just a Dakota. Good thing you set me straight...cause I realize this isn't a fair comparison now. The R/T 5.9L has 250HP and the Motorsport Dakota has just 245HP. The wheel/tire package is the same, and the Motorsport has upgraded swaybars, but I guess the 5 more HP and other upgrades are what separate the men from the boys.

In my searching for performance numbers....I just happen to have stumbled across a shootout between the Lightning, Tacoma TRD, and Dakota R/T.

Here is their conclusion:

Dodge's 5.9L R/T is vehicular fast food, representing good value, capability, and convenience in a tasty package. Moving closer to my heart, the SVT Lightning is a thorough package with a huge platter of power and an ample exhaust note that makes you feel like any open stretch of highway is your home. The SVT gives you a belly full of comfort and power in the finest American tradition. For more exotic tastes, there's the super-delicious, supercharged TRD S-Runner. It should really have a dash plaque proclaiming, "This is a TRUCK!" A driver can easily forget. The race-ready looks and sticky motorsport equipment can make this the choice of twisty-road gourmets.

And to back up your statements.....the Dakota actually pulled the best numbers in the slalom. Onto the dyno though...the R/T mustered 154.7RWHP/200.3RWT whereas the Lightning pulled 303.4RWHP and 350.1RWT.

The Lightning pulled 60.61mph in the slalom compared to 63.23mph for the Dakota. They did note that the Dakota was a big surprise with tons of grip, quick steering, better response......but the Lightning in all fairness is a Full size truck and still felt better balanced. NO excuses...the R/T has better handling....but the Lightning ain't no Ranger.

13.75 @ 101.56 for the Lightning. 15.50 @ 88.72 for the R/T. Nuff said.

The R/T posted a 60-0 time of 136ft. The lighting posted 60-0 of 122ft. Nuff said.

So while the Dakota R/T is also a truck that may feel and perform like a mustang. I guess I sould restate that to say the Lighting is the only truck to feel like a Mustang GT.

Read the article yourself http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/pickup/163_0208_fun/index.html

Micah

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 94thundachicken
I know this truck is heavily modded but it would destroy both the L and the srt10 (presuming they're both stock of course). HSKR you might wanna do some of this to your RT. http://www.dakotart.com/club/truck.html

I know the guy personally, and talk to at least once a week. Not really my cup of tea for some of the stuff he has done, but his truck is fast, but not the fastest.

[1BADSC]

wow 12.7 with all those mods. Amazing. Latest issue of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords has a ton of 10 and 11 sec Lightnings.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by Micahdogg
You are right. It's not an R/T. Turns out it's just a Dakota. Good thing you set me straight...cause I realize this isn't a fair comparison now. The R/T 5.9L has 250HP and the Motorsport Dakota has just 245HP. The wheel/tire package is the same, and the Motorsport has upgraded swaybars, but I guess the 5 more HP and other upgrades are what separate the men from the boys.


Micah

Where you getting your info, because it definitly ain't rightr. While the 4.7 might have 245hp, the torque is a lot lower which is what gets these things moving. And as far as your wheel/tire package, you are once again dead wrong. The R/T comes with 17x9 wheels and 17" performance tires, while the Motorsports Dak's came with 16x8 wheels with the yellow letered Goodyear tires. Yep, your right, they are the same what was I thinking. Get your facts staright before tryiung to tell me what the vehicle I personally own performs like.

[HSKR]

New World record top speed for factory Sport Truck

http://users3.ev1.net/~txsvtlightning/misc/recordsrt10a.jpg

[1BADSC]

Kinda hard to compare a modifed truck. Especially since the Lightning is in the Guniess Book of World Records as the fastest production truck ever.

[Darkside]

I love me some taco's. Do you guys like taco's? Taco's, taco's, taco's. Just don't like digging out the lettuce and cheese that falls between the seats..................what? Sorry, short attention span. Can't believe you guys are still talking about these two trucks. Well I guess I'll take it upon myself to moderate this thread. The Lightning is a proven performer that has been around, lasted, and improved since 1993. The SRT(slow running truck)-10 is.........well....................just a........................Dodge.:D There's your answer.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
Kinda hard to compare a modifed truck. Especially since the Lightning is in the Guniess Book of World Records as the fastest production truck ever.

Huh????? Wait till the new Guniess Book comes out. It ain't an instant update type thing.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by Darkside
The Lightning is a proven performer that has been around, lasted, and improved since 1993. The SRT(slow running truck)-10 is.........well....................just a........................Dodge.:D There's your answer.

Except for the 4 years Ford took off of making the Lightning before the GenII came out. So to say it's "lasted" kind of gets thrown out the window. Would be kinda like saying the T-bird has "lasted" because they still make a car called the T-bird. And the GenI's weren't "improved" the whole time they were produced. At least not performance wise. They were kinda like the Dakota R/T for stock performance the whole time they were produced. I know your just joking around, but for 1st model year production, the SRT-10 anything but slow, and a stock Lightning will have it's hands full trying to keep up.

[HSKR]

Here's an article talking about going for the record, but it's from Jan 30th, and they made the run yesterday.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/rac-nas-loc/2004/jan/30/516267930.html

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Huh????? Wait till the new Guniess Book comes out. It ain't an instant update type thing.

By then the new lightning should be out :O)

[Micahdogg]

235HP...I meant to type 235. The 4.7L is rated at 235 HP @ 4800 rpm and 295ft-lbs at 3200 rpm. The 50 state legal California produced Dakotas were reduced to 230HP for emissions. This really isn't that big of a deal....but every single HP seems to add up to huge gains though.

I mean, a 235HP Motorsport Dakota is mildly impressive, but a 250HP R/T = WOW. Nevermind that my run of the mill 5.4L F150 has 265HP though out of a half liter smaller engine. And torque is very close to the precious R/T at 340, but I dunno...again, that negative 5 ft-lbs might be putting a big hurt on me.

Finally, every Motorsport edition Dakota I've seen has the black powdercoated R/T wheels. Which are 17 inch (255 55 17 right?). Do I really need to go take a picture. Because if you need one, I will happily provide it just to teach you a little about the truck that you own and apparently know ohhh so well.

Bottom line....the Lightning still offers better value than a SRT10. However, if you wanna talk more about Dakota's...I call tell you all day long why a run of the mill F150 (World Ford Challenge Two Year Trophey Winning) (http://members.tccoa.com/micahdogg/truck1.jpg) like mine is better than a Dodge Dakota R/T (where quality comes...oh 3rd or 4th)

Micah

[J57ltr]

Wow, I am impressed. 10 pages

[1BADSC]

Lets work on 11. :) The Dakota is not a performance truck. :)

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

We up to 11 yet? lmao

[1BADSC]

nope, not yet. What we need is a long post. :)











































:)

[HSKR]

Dodge Ram SRT-10 Grabs Guinness World Record
Monday February 2, 12:44 pm ET

- Viper-powered Ram SRT-10 'World's Fastest Production Pickup Truck' -
NASCAR's Brendan Gaughan Fastest Man In A Production Dodge Ram

CHELSEA, Mich., Feb. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Dodge Ram SRT-10 unleashed its
Viper power today, taking its place in the Guinness Book of World Records as the "World's
Fastest Production Pickup Truck."

Only recently off the Saltillo, Mexico, assembly line and not modified in any way for additional
power or enhanced aerodynamics, the Dodge Ram SRT-10 posted a two-lap, both-directions
average speed of 154.587 mph over a "flying kilometer" on the 4.71-mile oval at the
DaimlerChrysler Proving Grounds here in Chelsea. The record run by the Dodge Ram SRT-10
was certified by Guinness World Records and the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA). The
previous record was 147.54 mph, set last July by the Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, before the
Dodge Ram SRT-10 went into production.

"When we set out to develop the Dodge Ram SRT-10, our mission was to create the ultimate
performance truck," said Dan Knott, Director, Street and Racing Technology. "With 500
horsepower, sports car-like handling, world- class braking and race-inspired design
appointments, we know we reached our goal. Setting the Guinness record today simply
confirms that, and solidifies the Ram SRT-10 as the ultimate -- and fastest -- performance
pickup."

According to Guinness World Records rules, the record speed had to be the average of two
one-kilometer runs in opposite directions along the same track, made within an hour of one
another. The timing equipment had to be certified as accurate to within 1/1000th of a second,
and supplied and operated by a qualified third party. The speed of each run was timed by
means of sensors at the start and finish of the measured kilometer, thus giving an average
speed over the full distance.

The Dodge Ram SRT-10 is the third Dodge vehicle branded with the Street and Racing
Technology label, following the Dodge Viper SRT-10 -- the ultimate American sports car -- and
the award-winning 230 horsepower Dodge SRT-4, that has taken the sport compact "tuner"
crowd by storm.

Behind the wheel of the Ram SRT-10 in the record-setting run was Brendan Gaughan, a
six-time winner in a Dodge Ram in the 2003 NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series (NCTS).
Gaughan makes his NASCAR Nextel Cup debut later this month at the Daytona 500 in the No.
77 Kodak Dodge.

"I've certainly driven some fast trucks," Gaughan said, "but I've certainly never experienced
anything like setting a Guinness world record. I've known for a long time that the Dodge Ram is
the ultimate truck for the race track, and this certainly proves the Ram SRT-10 is the ultimate
performance truck for the street."

Hein Le Roux, research team member at Guinness World Records traveled from the company's
London headquarters to monitor the record run.

"I'm pleased to be here in Chelsea for this record-breaking attempt," Le Roux said. "Guinness
World Records is the ultimate compilation of superlatives, and I am proud to officially recognize
that Dodge has set a new Guinness World Record."

Le Roux said watching the record-setting speed run was a great way to begin the new year, in
which Guinness World Records celebrates 50 years of world records.

"People aren't too surprised when they hear about expensive super cars or race cars setting
speed records," he added. "But few people expect a standard production pickup truck, which
they can drive straight off the dealer lot, to be capable of this sort

[HSKR]

Originally posted by Micahdogg
235HP...I meant to type 235. The 4.7L is rated at 235 HP @ 4800 rpm and 295ft-lbs at 3200 rpm. The 50 state legal California produced Dakotas were reduced to 230HP for emissions. This really isn't that big of a deal....but every single HP seems to add up to huge gains though.

I mean, a 235HP Motorsport Dakota is mildly impressive, but a 250HP R/T = WOW. Nevermind that my run of the mill 5.4L F150 has 265HP though out of a half liter smaller engine. And torque is very close to the precious R/T at 340, but I dunno...again, that negative 5 ft-lbs might be putting a big hurt on me.

Finally, every Motorsport edition Dakota I've seen has the black powdercoated R/T wheels. Which are 17 inch (255 55 17 right?). Do I really need to go take a picture. Because if you need one, I will happily provide it just to teach you a little about the truck that you own and apparently know ohhh so well.

Bottom line....the Lightning still offers better value than a SRT10. However, if you wanna talk more about Dakota's...I call tell you all day long why a run of the mill F150 (World Ford Challenge Two Year Trophey Winning) (http://members.tccoa.com/micahdogg/truck1.jpg) like mine is better than a Dodge Dakota R/T (where quality comes...oh 3rd or 4th)

Micah

Oh please show me a picture of these 17" wheels that were one every Motorsports edition Dakota ever preoduced. Good luck finding a picture of 17" ones though, because they were all 16" black wheels with polished lip. And while you're at it, make sure to get a close up of the tire size mounted on those 17" rims because I'd be interested to see how they fit 16" yellow letter goodyears on 17" rims.

Hell, I got tired of arguing with you, so I'll just prove my own point for you.
http://www.dakota-durango.com/photos/photopage/robbins4.jpg

http://www.dakota-durango.com/profiles/jespinola/jespinola1.jpg

Yep, they sure look the same to me. Boy, what was I thinking. Next time you try to make yourself look like you know what your talking about, you might want to actually do some quick research before you open your mouth.

[HSKR]

Oh, BTW micah, Goodyear never made a 17" yellow letter eagle that would fit a Dakota R/T 17" wheel

[HSKR]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann
By then the new lightning should be out :O)

And of course, by then, Dodge will have changed the SRT-10 to make it better as well, but of course we can all be optomistic. I'm still waiting to see if Ford will actually produce the new Lightning the same as the concept.

[1BADSC]

still took a crap load more HP to get a few more mph.

[Darkside]

HSKR, go and grab the latest issue of Motor Trend, read about the Cobra prototype, mainly read about FORD's newly developed V-10. The Viper V-10 is WEAK!:p Ford's new V-10 displaces 390, yes 390 cubic inches and makes 605 NATURALLY ASPIRATED HP. It only makes 500 ft. lbs of torque though. Plus it says that the dyno used only read up to 600 HP and they pegged it. It takes a Viper V-10 what?, 500 cubic inches to make 505 HP. Please. Ford wins, Dodge loses. Now, honestly, do you really think the new Lightning will be released by Ford not being able to handily squash any production truck that is out there? No, surely you don't. While the Slow Running Truck-10 IS the fastest right now, the Lightning is still the KING.

BTW, weren't the Lightning production years as follows: 93/94, 97-2004? or was it 99-2004?

[XR7 Dave]

Waa, Waa, Waa. *If* I had the money, I'd jump for an SRT-10. Don't really care what anyone else thinks. Hey, when you have that kind of money to slap on a truck, it just don't matter what anyone else thinks.

Anyway I'm still mad at Ford for ~~~~tingon our poor SC's. I will never buy another "new" Ford.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
still took a crap load more HP to get a few more mph.

Yeah, funny thing about vehicles, the faster you want to go, the more horsepower it takes. Can't figure that one out. I should be able to go faster with the same amount of horsepower if I wanted to. And really, it's just over 100 more horsepower. When you are going that fast, it takes a lot of horsepower to push a brick through the air, and 7mph over the old record is a big jump when it comes to world speed records when most are in the tenths of a mph different. So now Dodge owns the record for fastest production truck, and just plain fastest truck over all with the Cummins deisel powered Dakota at 217mph. Wonder why Banks deisel who does a lot more with the Ford Powerstroke chose the Dodge Dakota and Cummins deisel to set the world record????

And the production fopr the GenII Lightning started in '99, so there was at least a 4 year break in production for a vehicle that has "lasted"

[HSKR]

Originally posted by Darkside
HSKR, go and grab the latest issue of Motor Trend, read about the Cobra prototype, mainly read about FORD's newly developed V-10. The Viper V-10 is WEAK!:p Ford's new V-10 displaces 390, yes 390 cubic inches and makes 605 NATURALLY ASPIRATED HP. It only makes 500 ft. lbs of torque though. Plus it says that the dyno used only read up to 600 HP and they pegged it. It takes a Viper V-10 what?, 500 cubic inches to make 505 HP. Please. Ford wins, Dodge loses. Now, honestly, do you really think the new Lightning will be released by Ford not being able to handily squash any production truck that is out there? No, surely you don't. While the Slow Running Truck-10 IS the fastest right now, the Lightning is still the KING.

BTW, weren't the Lightning production years as follows: 93/94, 97-2004? or was it 99-2004?

And what does the Cobra prototype have to do with the Lightning???? Yeah, Dodges pushrod V-10 is a little outdated compoared to the OHC V-10 of Fords prototype(read NOT production) For that matter, what about Dodges prototype 8.1L Hemi V-10 with close to 700 n/a hp??? There's always going to be someone coming out with bigger and better vehicles. There isn't ever going to be one manufacturer that will always be on top for performance. And as far as Ford making the Lighting to beat the SRT-10, do you really think Dodge is going to let Ford make a faster vehicle?? Dodge will "improve" on the SRT-10 just as Ford has with the Lightning. Don't think it's just going to be the same performance wise year after year, especially IF the new Lightning is faster.

[Darkside]

Still not at eleven pages. Almost though!:D

[Darkside]

I don't see Dodge making this truck for long. Just a hunch though. Do I really think Dodge is going to "let" Ford make a faster vehicle? They always have before, what makes you think they're going to stop now? I would bet that Ford will bring back the Shelby Cobra. Bye, Bye, Viper. The reason I brought up the V-10 comparison is because Dodge stuck an outdated engine in their new truck. Ford and the owners of its vehicles suffered for a long time when Ford first started using modular engines. The Mustangs were slower than GM's F-bodies, which was painful to say the least. Now the sacrifice is paying off because Ford can get more out of less. 8.1L V-10. That is quite a bit bigger than Ford's V-10. 600 HP out of 390 cubic inches. Argue that. What you should have said is that Dodge continues to build monster engines that don't make a whole lot for what they are. Like I said before, I could build a 460 in my backyard with a Craftsman socket set that would make more than the Dodge V-10's 505 HP. And that is with 40 less cubes.

P.S. I'll give Dodge one credit though, they must have made an impression on GM with the Viper because the new Vette looks similar, to say the least, mainly in the front end. This is a little off subject but I just saw a pic of the new vette today. Ugly as ever.:rolleyes:

Hey, I was the first into the elevens in something at least:p

[HSKR]

Originally posted by Darkside
I don't see Dodge making this truck for long. Just a hunch though. Do I really think Dodge is going to "let" Ford make a faster vehicle? They always have before, what makes you think they're going to stop now? I would bet that Ford will bring back the Shelby Cobra. Bye, Bye, Viper. The reason I brought up the V-10 comparison is because Dodge stuck an outdated engine in their new truck. Ford and the owners of its vehicles suffered for a long time when Ford first started using modular engines. The Mustangs were slower than GM's F-bodies, which was painful to say the least. Now the sacrifice is paying off because Ford can get more out of less. 8.1L V-10. That is quite a bit bigger than Ford's V-10. 600 HP out of 390 cubic inches. Argue that. What you should have said is that Dodge continues to build monster engines that don't make a whole lot for what they are. Like I said before, I could build a 460 in my backyard with a Craftsman socket set that would make more than the Dodge V-10's 505 HP. And that is with 40 less cubes.

P.S. I'll give Dodge one credit though, they must have made an impression on GM with the Viper because the new Vette looks similar, to say the least, mainly in the front end. This is a little off subject but I just saw a pic of the new vette today. Ugly as ever.:rolleyes:

Hey, I was the first into the elevens in something at least:p

I see Dodge making it for as long as they want to. As long as Ford keeps making the Lightning, Dodge will have something to compete with or beat it. And How long has it taken Ford to come up with something to even come close to competeing with the Viper?? And even then, they had to get help from Shelby. The new GT isn't in the same class because it will cost at least twice as much as a new Viper. And your comment on the 460, I could build a 426 Hemi in my backyard using the same tool set as you and put out more horsepower, but what does that prove?? Nothing really. We are talking about factory vehicles I thought, not backyard projects. But as before, the Ford guys always have to go back to modified vehicles to compete with stock Dodge products, and the SRT series of vehicles is just the latest example. For some reason most Ford people just don't want to accept it and have to come up with all sorts of excuses like it costs more, or it has a bigger motor. WHO CARES!!!!!!!! If you have to use excuses as to why your factory sports truck can't compete stock for stock, then obviously Ford needs to go back to the drawing board because they are behind in the factory performance market. Facts don't lie, and for now Dodge is on top. Use all the excuses you want, but it doesn't change what the facts have shown right now. And prototype vehicles and claimed performance of them don't count in this argument, and neither do modified vehicles.

[Darkside]

It's still just a Dodge. Don't give me that "the GT is twice as much as a Viper crap either". The Viper is not a contender anymore and you Slodge guys just make excuses. Sound familiar? Ford didn't build the GT to compete with the Viper. What for? Ford was chasing bigger fish. The Viper had its time. Now it must step aside, and Shelby contributed nothing but his name to the new Cobra prototype. Read the article. The reason I keep bringing up the 460 arguments and the V-10 comparisons is because Ford's engine program is so far ahead of its big 3 counterparts. I think GM is planning on using the 350 forever. That's why the Camaro and Firebird are dead. What about that proposed Charger? Dead in the water. The Slodge has a long way to go to reach Lightning status, even if it is quicker right now.

[HSKR]

Originally posted by Darkside
It's still just a Dodge. Don't give me that "the GT is twice as much as a Viper crap either". The Viper is not a contender anymore and you Slodge guys just make excuses. Sound familiar? Ford didn't build the GT to compete with the Viper. What for? Ford was chasing bigger fish. The Viper had its time. Now it must step aside, and Shelby contributed nothing but his name to the new Cobra prototype. Read the article. The reason I keep bringing up the 460 arguments and the V-10 comparisons is because Ford's engine program is so far ahead of its big 3 counterparts. I think GM is planning on using the 350 forever. That's why the Camaro and Firebird are dead. What about that proposed Charger? Dead in the water. The Slodge has a long way to go to reach Lightning status, even if it is quicker right now.

LMAO!!!! That picture of Darth as your avatar is fitting because you seem blinded. What exactly is "Lightning status"??? Please inform me oh great one. Funny thing with the GT is though, the magazine tests I've seen, the SRT10 Viper out performed the GT, but I guess the "bigger fish" don't include the Viper so who cares right??? Ford's engine program ahead of it's big three counterparts?? What exactly makes it ahead of the game?? The Dodge 5.7 Hemi putting out 345hp. Oh what's that?? Dodge has a better motor than the mighty 5.4 Triton which only makes 265hp??? The Dodge 4.7HO(factory in Jeep Grand Cherokees) motor puts out 260hp with smaller size. Ford hasn't done anything to impress me yet. The only way they can make a fast vehicle is to have SVT re-work the motor with better parts than the factory puts in, and slap on a supercharger. Where as Dodge, just pulls a motor direct off the assembly line and drops it into other vehicles with no other performance modifications needed to be made to the motor. As far as the "proposed" Charger, it's still going to be released. Look for more info on it late this year or '05. Can you say 400+hp 6.1L Hemi in a 4-door car??

[ThunderDave]

After reading to this point, it got me wondering: HSKR, shouldn't you be out on a ledge somewhere? We went through 10 or 11 pages a while ago about a SHO vs. SC. It was in that case and I think it is in this case too, apples and oranges. To each his own.

Do you really think that buyers of the SRT-10 won't do some modding? Probably they will, so don't make such a fuss about Lightning owners modding their trucks.

If Ford put their V-10 in the Lightning, then we'd have a really closer comparison of the trucks. Nope, the Dodge motor is still bigger. Ford wins again!!!!

David