S.o.s. Sc

ThunderDave

Registered User
Ok fellas, I REALLY need your help on this one. I replaced the heads over the weekend after they had blown a few weeks ago.
I got it back together and cranked it up. It didn't want to idle smooth, supercharger had high pitched whine to it (at idle), smoking badly and check engine light coming on. A friend that's a mechanic (he's no expert on SC's, he doesn't like to work on them and warned me when I told him I was getting this one, although he's tried to be helpful since the head gasket blew) asked me if I had used gasket sealer on the intake gaskets around the coolant ports, because he thought it could be leaking there and causing the smoke. He also said since they were blown, maybe there was some coolant in the exhaust and would take a while to burn off. It didn't smoke this bad after it blew the gasket. As for the rough idle, he didn't know. He thought maybe a sensor had gone bad. He's coming over tonight with his computer so we can scan it for codes. Does anyone have any ideas so maybe we'll have a headstart on what to look for? It has taken me two weeks to fix my daily driver and I miss it so much.Any info would help and be much appreciated.

Thanks,

David
 
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First off, your quick! I've doing mine for 2 months now. Your o2 sensors are toast if you have burned coolant. Gonna need two new ones. Check for vacuum leaks around the SC and check for crossed plug wires or wrong wires to the wrong cylinders. Not sure about the intake. The gaskets are rubber but I would have used RTV anyhow around anything that has to do with coolant because in can enter the engine at so many different spots. I'm big on permatex #2. Also if you forgot to hook up a vacuum line especially to the fuel regulator your car will go to the richest possible fuel setting causing smoke. Black smoke is fuel, blue smoke is oil, white smoke is coolant.
 
SOS

Hey 35th, I'm not quick, I said it took two weeks,lol! It was dark, so it was hard to tell really, but the smoke looked white. Coolant? It wouldn't be too bad to pull the intake and do those gaskets again. I just really don't want to pull those heads. I checked the wires and they are in order. So, O2 sensors and permatex for intake gaskets? I checked vacuum lines too and they all look good. I'm hoping we can find out exactly what the problems are when we do the scan tonight. I was really hoping to drive it work last night. Nope. Stuck in my wife Windstar again. Another 3.8, can't wait for the head gaskets to go on that thing,lol!!!

Thanks for the heads up!!!


David
 
Re: SOS

super91coupe said:
Stuck in my wife Windstar again.

You shoulda said something in the first post, this truly is an SOS.

Did you change the plugs out? White smoke could definitely be some residual moisture in the exhaust from the bad headgasket. If its cold where you are it just might be normal unless its a real lot.
 
How long did you let the car run when you were finished. If it was only a few minutes...you are still burning the large amounts of coolant that went down in the exhaust pipes when you popped the heads. It takes a good run down the road to get er all cleared. Now if there is another problem with vacuum use carb cleaner and spray it around the intake/supercharger base to see if it changes the idle. If so you have a leak. Check your plug order like 35th stated. If you are leaking around the intake remember next time torque it in order a total of 3 times (starting over at one and torquing all of the bolts in the same order...just so thats clear). More often then not the 02s are the problem. If the 02s are the code do a R.T.S.O.O.I. test (Run The $#!^ Out Of It) to clear all the old coolant from the pipes.
 
I assume you installed new spark plugs? Are you sure the firing order is right? Many manuals have the wrong firing order listed. Most often a miss after startup is a damaged or loose plug wire, incorrect firing order, injector wires that are loose or connected to the wrong injector. It is easy to do. Originally the ones that could be mixed up had a tag on them Yours may or may not still have it. Otherwise you may have to check wire colors.

Make sure you have all the air bled out of the cooling system. If you do, verify that the system pressurizes when the motor gets warm and maintains pressure after you shut it off. Make sure that water is not getting into the oil again, however I doubt you have issues with coolant. Oh ya, the book calls for like 11ftlbs torque on the manifold bolts. I always do 20ftlbs. 11 is not sufficient if the bolts and bolt holes are anything other than brand new. I never use any adhesive or sealant on the intake manifold gaskets. Doesn't seem to hurt to do it though, lots of people do. Most likely you are just burning out coolant from the exhaust.

If the motor will idle, do a cylinder balance test to isolate the missing cylinder (s).

Highly doubt it's any sensor. Particularily if it misses on startup. If it starts right off then your temp sensors, MAF, and IAC are all fine. It may have a bunch of codes in it, but that doesn't mean much until you get it running. Blown headgaskets and disconnected battery can result in lots of random codes.

Good luck!
 
Just to ask. Did you have the heads resurfaced? I didn't see any where you said that you did. If not it could have blown the HG's right back out. Since we don't have steel heads, we need to have them re-surfaced anytime you blow a HG.

Being a machinest. I have seen lots of ppl try to just put a new HG on a aluminum head and it fail almost instantly, all because they didn't get it resurfaced. The stuff just warps to easy. Hell I've done a car before, that just because I unbolted them they warpped up and need resurfacing. Ok enough of my babbling.
 
sos

Hey guys! I did have the heads resurfaced. I put in new plugs and wires. I only torqued the intake bolts to 11 lbs. So I need to increase that to 20 lbs.? I had the ehaust manifolds loose at the converters, so I don't know how much coolant would have gotten into the exhaust that way. I rechecked the plugs and wires and they seem good. I didn't let it run more than 5-10 minutes, just sitting in the drive way. Should I torque those intake bolts before I run it much more? I'll check for vacuum leaks with the carb cleaner and see what we find with the scan.

Would the O2 sensors being burnt cause it to run rough? How much are new ones. Thanks a lot for all the help.

David
 
02 sensors can cause all kinds of problems. I have been in several arguements with people who say in EECIV the can not cause a rough condition at start up. I have seen it and it can happen. Your best bet is to make sure your fluids are good, check for vacuum leaks, run the car for a while, and then check for codes. You did change your oil didnt you?. I cant remember what year your car was but if you have the style that the exhaust is directly below the head pointing stright up...it swallowed a lot of fluid. Keep us posted.
 
Bosch OEM O2 sensors at autozone were about $40-45 a piece and you need two of them. It stinks but it's a must if you burned coolant.
 
mechanics rule!!!!!

I have often considered myself mechanically inclined. Somethings are beyond our limitations no matter how much we don't want to believe it. So when all else fails, call a mechanic. We didn't even need to put the computer on it. After looking it over and listening to it, he spotted two small vacuum lines along the firewall that I had missed and the TPS plug connection. I was trying to finish it outside in the dark with bad lighting. I feel so stupid. I was tired and in a hurry to get it done and just missed them. My bad!!! After we got the coolant bled, the exhaust smoke cleared up and the idle was nice and smooth. I feel pretty good about the job I did on it, except for those few things I missed. It was my first head gasket job and I don't look forward to doing another.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and ideas. Y'all were right on top of that vacuum leak.

The mechanic told me if the oxygen sensors were bad, the check engine light would come on. He said if it didn't, they might be ok.

Thanks again,


David Less than a shade tree..........But I did learn a lot!!!!
 
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