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View Full Version : AOD experts? mysterious metal in the pan?



Ripper
02-06-2004, 08:14 PM
I bought a used AOD trans to swap into my 89. The guy said it should be good since he pulled it himself from a wreck to save for a rainy day.. Couple of years later the rainy day never came and he sold it to me. It appeared to have had a recent rebuild, since it was stamped 1999 on a newer looking biltron torque converter. It sat for a while on the floor of a garage with the filler/dipstick hole wide open so things could have fallen in I guess.

Anyhow, I put it in the car and dropped the pan to find some black soot and some silver filings along with about 10 pieces of a thin metal about 1/4" by 3/8"

The pieces look like the fins of a radiator kinda compressed (folded flat on top of each other). They are all of similar size and shape

Im not an AOD expert but was wondering what the heck these pieces could be? Im thinking something from the torque converter perhaps.

It does drive but I only just moved it a couple feet since the trans line broke while swapping tranny's

Parker Dean
02-07-2004, 01:07 AM
Sounds like the springs from a sprag (AKA one-way clutch).

Any significant metal found in a trans pan is not good news and warrants a teardown for inspection.

You can try and run it since it's already in and see what happens. If it works, then cool, but I'd be having the backup plan ready at hand.

Ripper
02-07-2004, 10:09 AM
Thanks, do you know what the symptoms of a bad sprag would be?

It would be a full teardown to check it right?

Ripper
02-07-2004, 12:06 PM
Screw it, I took the old one that would shift passed 2nd down to the Cottman man. he says $500-700 for it to be rebuilt in 2 days (got a 1300 mile trip to go on next weekend so I cant risk it.)

I told him to give me the "good stuff" extra clutches and the best servos.

Ripper
02-09-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Ripper
Thanks, do you know what the symptoms of a bad sprag would be?

It would be a full teardown to check it right?


Got to drive it today with the bad sprag one-way. it jitters and jumps around underneith the car at anything over idle unless you nurse it up to second very slow. Then its all good.


the cottman man is beating me for $790 on the original that I dropped off to get rebuilt, says he is gonna use 9 clutches and transgo shiftkit.. he says it should be good for street though, not tire chirping unless I want it too.

Parker Dean
02-11-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Ripper
Got to drive it today with the bad sprag one-way. it jitters and jumps around underneith the car at anything over idle unless you nurse it up to second very slow. Then its all good.

Well now we know what the symptoms of a sprag that doesn't lock are :) Now if we just knew which one...

I thought that tranny was supposed to be done and in the car by now? If you can't get a couple hundred miles of drive time on the fresh trans before your trip I'd strongly suggest a rental. Taking freshly-repaired cars on trips just raises the likelihood of trouble, IME.

Ken Seegers
02-11-2004, 03:59 PM
Ripper,
I had my tranny rebuilt a few years ago. I ended up with Kolene steel plates, Alto red clutches, Alto red kelvar OD Band, A+ servo, Trans-Go shift kit, 2200 non-lockup converter. My damage was 2000 with R&R. I know longer have the non-lockup converter due to it ballooning. I am going back to a higher stall converter, but with lock up capabilities. I did not like where the non-lockup converter stalled. It was closer to 3k on the stall.
Good Luck on the rebuild
Ken

Ripper
02-11-2004, 04:13 PM
Ken, all that stuff sounds familiar except the converter, I had that rebuilt as stock. Except for the servo they got me for $904 plus tax. (said the price before wasnt with converter, but I had my mechanic listen in when I called him)

I like kinda living on the edge, I bought the car for this trip and I'll be damned if its gonna hold me back.. otherwise I gotta take the bronco

Im gonna try my hand at rebuilding an AOD when I get the one with the busted sprag back.. I got the video and the book. Gots lots of tools and a little time. Just need to pick up beer!

Ripper
02-11-2004, 04:15 PM
If I get it tomorrow morning I will drive it all day and get that 200 miles before I leave friday.. wooohooo!!

Ripper
03-11-2004, 09:26 AM
Update.

I got the rebuilt tranny back and put it in the car myself at my buddies shop. Drove right to the cottman so he could set the TV cable. The guy set it by hand..

I got on the highway and it was good until the next day, I took it on the turnpike and OD was slipping out under anything over 1/4-1/2 throttle. Everything else was awesome, best shifting trans I ever had.

I went on the trip anyway and just babied the car in OD, the trip was mostly flat and it was good. When I back OD was a little worse.

I brought the whole car to cottman, Im sick of changing the trans in it, its their turn since it cost me $958 to rebuild (with me handing it em) and it not working.

They pulled the trans and looked inside, they could only find the OD band was shot, but couldnt find anything else. He replaced the band and sanded the drum, the band didnt cut into it so it was ok. He put it back in the car and put his gauges on it. Still no good, but he found out why. He told me but I am not sure if I remember right, the 3/4 direct clutch isnt releasing or something. So OD didnt have enough pressure to hold it, even with the shim the shift kit said to put in.

So now Im kinda pissed, but no biggy I got another car to get around in, just this SC is taking a hell of a long time to get road worthy LOL.

I brought the tranny I bought from some guy, the one with the busted one-way to him so he could use the valve body or housing. The tech put the valve body in and it still did the same thing.

So now he is sure its the housing, I hope so, I never heard of them going bad though, shouldnt that be something they check when someone hands em a tranny and asked for a full rebuild?

Ken Seegers
03-11-2004, 11:16 AM
ripper,
The tranny rebuilt with R&R should have been about $1000. I had my tranny rebuilt several years ago with all the hipo goodies ( Alto red clutches, Kolene steel plates, transgo shift kit, Alto red OD band, non-lockup converter, A+ servo). This ran me about $2k, but I also blew my reverse drum. The stock rebuild would have been around $900.

When you had the tranny rebuilt, they should have check everything. If something is bad it needs to be replaced. The guy who built my tranny is no longer is business. I am having a hard time finding someone locally, who knows how to rebuild a performance tranny. Hide sight being 20/20, I wish I had level 10 do my tranny.


If you are looking to do a performance rebuild, I can send you a copy of the parts I used.

Good Luck
Ken

Ripper
03-11-2004, 12:39 PM
yeah, they didnt have to R&R the trans so I had them throw extra money at building it up, the guy talked a good game and the thing did shift awesome 1,2,3 on the floor. Shame its not working in OD.

Ken Seegers
03-12-2004, 02:26 AM
Ripper,
It sounds like the seal on the OD servo is bad. Mine went only after one year. Thank God I had a two year warranty.
Good luck
Ken

Ripper
03-23-2004, 02:28 PM
This is still going on! I was saying to myself this morning "self, it would be nice to actually drive the car I bought before gas is $3 a gallon"

The guy swapped all parts back and forth between 2 trannys I had given them to atleast make one good one. Still no good. He had it and went for a test drive and it started to slip out again.

darkstar_one
03-24-2004, 01:41 PM
you wanna know something... i payed 550 bucks for my tranny to be rebuilt with a transkit... and 6 months later it burnt out... even after i had installed a huge radiator for the oil... the damn thing burnt out... i took it off and i had my dad pop it open and bam.. what do u know... seems nothing was really replaced... :eek:

i want to get it rebuild but i just saw a 5 speed here for around 1 grand... seems i will be getting the 5 speed instead....

Ripper
03-24-2004, 02:01 PM
Called down there today, they got a 3rd AOD trans case and another valve body.. they are trying those with my rebuilt pump, gears and stuff in it

Should have it by the end of the week. they say :rolleyes:

TbirdSCFan
03-24-2004, 09:51 PM
you wanna know something... i payed 550 bucks for my tranny to be rebuilt with a transkit... and 6 months later it burnt out... even after i had installed a huge radiator for the oil... the damn thing burnt out... i took it off and i had my dad pop it open and bam.. what do u know... seems nothing was really replaced... :eek:

i want to get it rebuild but i just saw a 5 speed here for around 1 grand... seems i will be getting the 5 speed instead.... :mad: And they wonder why transmission shops have such a bad rep... OK, so if a shop lowballs the job, we know its probably a rip.
FWIW, someone posted a link to a supplier with a new street cruiser AOD out there for $1300.. seems to me, it might be worth the extra $ to avoid the hassles and headaches of questionable work.

Ripper
03-24-2004, 09:54 PM
$1300 sounds good to me, I spent $1000 and have neither my car or the trans.

Also when I get mine back I know the trans guts have been apart 3 times and driven 10,000 test miles LOL

Ripper
03-31-2004, 03:53 PM
per conversation friday with the cottman where my car is getting free room and board at. Monday was to be the day I get the car back.

Monday came and went, the thing was still sitting with no trans. Tuesday I called and spoke with the mechanic rebuilding the trans. He told me he had the trans all done and was just waiting on spare lift to get it put back in and tested out.

Well, having not heard anything I decided a unnanounced visit would be whats needed. I went down about 10 this am.

The car was on the lift so I was happy, but not until I seen the trans on the bench next to it in a thousand pieces. The guy showed me the OD band burned up and he was replacing it for the 4th time, he had a used junk yard case delivered and was going to use it and the pump that came with it. His thinking is that my pump in my original trans is bad, same with the 2nd I brought him.

He told me with any luck he would have the trans back together one last time and in the car this afternoon.

I just called him again, he just got back from road test on it and found is just as bad, if not worse than before. Shift into 3rd is very harsh and OD still slips out.

I think I am going to go ape **** soon.

Ken Seegers
03-31-2004, 04:28 PM
Ripper,
I think your problem is in the valve body or the servo. The only way the case could be bad is if it cracked.

Don't take this the wrong way but,.......does your cottman know how to rebuild a tranny?????? I have never heard of burning a OD that quick. Is he checking the tranny line pressure before driving the car???? If the TV cable is not adjusted correctly you could fry a OD band.

Good Luck
Ken

Ripper
03-31-2004, 10:39 PM
Ripper,
does your cottman know how to rebuild a tranny??????

Good Luck
Ken

I am having my doubts, supposedly this is the toughest job they have even had and are dead set in getting it fixed themselves.

Kicker is, I met a buddy through another hobby I am into. Come to find out he owns 2 cottmans in Phila and offered to fix it for nothing. Everytime I want to go get it the guts to the tranny are on the bench.

Thanks for the luck, I need it!

:mad:

Shockwave
04-01-2004, 02:10 AM
I think there are a lot of bad tranny shops that do not do full rebuilds. They figure you have an old car that you wont have that long. So if you have a bad OD band they try and just replace that one part. If the tranny shifts all the gears they are happy. You just got charged for a full rebuild and they warranty for 6 month or 6000. Somehow it makes more money for the shop even if you come back and they have to pull the tranny again. You will finally give up and it's almost impossible to prove fraud so they win.


Jerry

Shockwave
04-01-2004, 02:33 AM
Sounds like you are getting used junkyard parts installed in your tranny. There are pressure tests that can be performed. I feel your pain. The 90 SC had the tranny back to the shop 8 times. We finally gave up as they blamed the engine for making too much power. The car was 100% stock by the way. I finally pulled the tranny myself about two years later. I think this pic sums it up well.
http://s93260528.onlinehome.us/sccoa/tranny.jpg

Here are some pics of the AOD that was supposed to be rebuilt (http://s93260528.onlinehome.us/aod.htm)

Jerry

Ripper
04-01-2004, 06:29 AM
OMG that is too funny, sorry about the problems but I need a laugh about now.

Ripper
04-03-2004, 06:56 AM
Last thing done was a new dyno tested valve body, so we know that works. I took the car back after it was installed regardless of how it shifts.

The tech set the TV cable at 30psi, I think it needs 34 or 35, but anyhow now that I can drive it I can tell its really messed up inside and will have to go to my other buddies cottman (who I met after all this mess started)

When starting off, it idles fine and goes as soon as you press the gas, but it immediately shifts to 2nd gear at like 1200 rpm. Then shifts to 3rd at 1800 but I can kick it down and keep it in second only till 3500. 4th (OD) seems there but shift at somewhat normal rpms (It was so wet here I couldnt get into od really well)

Now I know this could be fixed up some with the TV cable but the wierd thing is when in 3rd or 4th and not on the gas it goes fine but when giving it little bits of throttle the rpms climb up like its slipping and I can hover the needle up and down about 1000rpm doing this. Any more and it stops doing it, like it needs time to build pressure, if I tromp it, the thing doesnt slip at all, stays in 3rd or 4th no problem and they dont slip other than that.

Anyone have a clue or advice?? and no I aint taking it back to the same place