C&L MAF Flow Sheet Wanted

Rich Thomson

Registered User
Looking for someone who has a flowsheet for a C&L with SC electronics. I already have the C&L Mustang flowsheet. 9 point or 30 point needed. A 93 Cobra flowsheet will work too. Pro-M wants too much $$ to flow test.

Rich
 
Here is one from the yahoo eec tuner group
It's a zipped excel file
 

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Thanks.

If what I see is correct I believe the stock Cobra 24 vs. the C&L curve is the reason some people are having tuning problems when using the C&L on their cars. If one believes what C&L is saying to me and others is their meters with the (clear tube) for stock injectors is suppose to keep the stock curve. Clearly this cannot be if the meter flows differently. I see as much as 5%-15% difference just on the stock vs the C&L MAF. With this type of difference you will have a real problem dialing in A/F ratio.

If someone has other SC or (24lb) cobra MAF C&L transfer functions please post.

Volts ProM 24 C&L 24 flowed by ProM
0.4 14.21 12.39
0.5 17.27 15.71
0.6 20.77 19.31
0.7 24.74 23.77
0.8 29.23 28.80
0.9 34.25 34.69
1 39.86 41.01
1.1 46.08 47.15
1.2 52.97 54.83
1.3 60.55 62.88
1.4 68.86 71.85
1.5 77.95 81.38
1.6 87.85 92.72
1.7 98.61 104.87
1.8 110.27 118.43
1.9 122.87 132.72
2 136.45 147.58
2.1 151.06 164.23
2.2 166.74 182.91
2.3 183.53 203.24
2.4 201.49 224.63
2.5 220.65 247.65
2.6 241.06 271.11
2.7 262.77 296.74
2.8 285.82 324.88
2.9 310.27 353.76
3 336.16 384.30
3.1 363.53 415.95
3.2 392.44 448.94
3.3 422.94 486.30
3.4 455.08 523.74
3.5 488.9 562.34
3.6 524.46 600.52
3.7 561.8 638.70
3.8 600.98 684.72
3.9 642.06 731.70
4 685.08 781.53
4.1 730.09 831.37
4.2 777.15 883.93
4.3 826.31 938.94
4.4 877.63 994.21
4.5 931.16 1052.31
4.6 986.95 1110.83
4.7 1045.07 1169.35
4.8 1105.55 1227.87
4.9 1168.47 1286.39
5 1233.87 1344.90
5.1 1301.81 1403.42
 
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cougarsc said:
Here is another from a 24# CL Maf
from a A9l 302 mustang


This is where you get tricked. The stock A9L uses a different MAF curve so If you have a A9L with a 24lb sampling tube you are using the wrong curve because you are starting out with a different sensor. The 93 Cobra uses a X3Z calibration code.

Rich
 
Rich, I don't see how comparing a ProM to a C&L is helpful. If you could compare them to stock that would help.

Also, if the meter is off, then what effect would it have on A/F ratio? In other words, what would I expect to see on an A/F chart with a C&L meter? The reason I ask is that I have always had good luck with my A/F curves and C&L meters. Please explain.
 
Pro-M flows any meter in any combo. C&L or Pro-M it does not matter the flow data comes from the meter. Whatever the electronics plus meter all have a testable curve. I hope I explained it clearly?

Unless you flow tested your C&L with your filter you do not have an accurate curve. When Pro-M flow tests a meter they ask if it has a cone filter or no filter. If you ever purchased a Pro-M they come with a flow sheet consisting of 9 points of flow data. You can take the 9 points and convert it to 30 points.
 
I got that, but I was just wondering you refer to the C&L being off 5-15% but I do not see any comparison of the C&L to stock. You posted a comparison of a Pro M meter and a C&L, are you saying that the ProM = same as stock? I was also wondering at what flow levels those differences were found and what kind of effect I might look for on my A/F ratio.
 
Me thinks someones confused..And to be honest its confusing the hell out of me just reading it..
I've talked to the guys at C&L on many occasions

Just to getthings straight

19lb 5.0=24lb Cobra=36 lb SC= 38lb SC

They all use same sampling tube for the specific size mass air

My 73mm C&L Which works on both my mustang 5.0 with 24lb injectors(had a cobra computer) Worked equally well with my 94 SC with 36lb injectors(IT USED THE SILVER SAMPLING TUBE)

My Bullet ProM calibrated for 19lb inj worked equaly well with my stang (24lb inj and Cobra computer) as it did with my 94 sc with 36 lb injectors....

Both of these will work equally well with a v6 non SC Tbird motor as well

PRO M's fool the computers signal using DIFFERENT electronice

C&L uses sampling tubes changes the amount of air hitting the stock ford electronics to fool it into thinking less or more air is entering the motor thus making it run leaner or richer depending on injector size..

I just typed this out in case your getting on the wrong track..

Sure you can get the meter flowed with a particular filter on it..But then when teh filter starts getting debris in it..Its flow will decrease thus theoretically screwing with your *perfect* flow numbers

My advice...Dont look to much into it and listen to the people who know(In this case pro M and C&L)
 
In case anyone is REALLY confused now, the Cobra30 IS the right calibration for an EARLY SC with 38lb injectors. I know, I had one, it ran good, had good A/F, made good HP, no chip needed etc, etc.

:D
 
I'm not confused. I know that the SC, Cobra (93), and Mark VIII all share the same voltage curve. I have verified these meters and electronics are the same. Pro-M lists a chart with the cars and the calibrations. All three are listed as a Cobra 24. Thus in stock meters they all share the same voltage curve. Pro-M has taken the application chart off their web site but after talking to them today they said it will be put back up in a week. So I ask that you believe me when I refer to the three all having the same voltage curves.

Back to my origional comment about the C&L meters being off. The chart above shows the stock meter vs the C&L. 2% off is acceptable but not 5-15%. What C&L tells me and others is wrong about there meters having the same voltage curves as the stock meter. The Pro-M flow data proves this! The information the meter sends back to the EEC is one of three factors that calculate engine load. MAF Voltage, Engine Displacement, & injector value. I won't go farther into the workings of the EEC right now.

The chart above does show data from a Pro-M meter and a C&L meter. Below is the MAF table from the EEC Tuner for a stock Cobra (93). Voltage numbers are not exactly the same but you will be able to see the KG/HR vs Voltage difference between all three.

I selected two points to compare. Do the math and you will see the % difference between them. Higher the kg/hr number to the stock the richer the A/F ratio will be at that voltage. Lower the kg/hr number to the stock the leaner the A/F ratio will be at that voltage. The Pro-M is not 100% correct but much closer to stock than the C&L is. You can run either meter but I just wanted to point out the difference in flow between the "stock" calibrated aftermarket meters. The advantage to the Pro-M over the C&L is the actual flow sheet that comes with every meter. The way you adjust for a meter that is a mismatch is you adjust the A/F table richer or leaner at a specific load and RPM.

Stock
3.5v 477 kg/hr
2.7v 248 kg/hr
C&L
3.5v 562 kg/hr
2.7v 296 kg/hr
Pro-M
3.5v 488 kg/hr
2.7v 262 kg/hr


Stock 93 Cobra MAF transfer table.

MAF_FUNCTION # Mass Air Transfer Function (Volts, Kg/Hr)
( 15.9998, 869.728 ) ( 4.45386, 869.728 ) ( 4.1001, 709.406 )
( 3.8999, 626.394 ) ( 3.69995, 549.402 ) ( 3.5, 477.796 )
( 3.30005, 411.893 ) ( 3.1001, 351.693 ) ( 2.9021, 296.88 )
( 2.70581, 248.086 ) ( 2.41089, 185.352 ) ( 2.31372, 166.975 )
( 2.21558, 150.182 ) ( 2.11865, 134.657 ) ( 2.01978, 120.399 )
( 1.92139, 107.726 ) ( 1.81909, 95.6859 ) ( 1.71826, 84.9133 )
( 1.61719, 75.0912 ) ( 1.5166, 65.9029 ) ( 1.41772, 57.9818 )
( 1.31738, 50.3777 ) ( 1.21582, 43.724 ) ( 1.11401, 37.3872 )
( 0.912842, 26.9315 ) ( 0.70874, 18.3768 ) ( 0.605469, 14.5747 )
( 0.499268, 11.4063 ) ( 0, 11.4063 ) ( 0, 11.4063 )
 
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Thanks, you all have me confused and scared.

I am waiting on my engine rebuild (0.030 over bore everything else stock 1991 SC 5-speed), and plan (already bought) 38#hr injectors and a C&L 73mm MAF with a Blue sample tube (from SCPerformance).

Is that Right?
Will I be risking burning up my motor?
......................
 
SCPERFORMANCE ?? How long have you planned that rebuild? That place went out of business years ago. :)

Jerry
 
SC Performance is Bill Evanoff Supercoupe Performance

If you plan on retuning the engine then get a Pro-M meter. It comes with the meters actual flow data on a sheet.

If you want to go old school and tune the A/F with an adjusted meter to compensate for the larger injectors you can do that too.

None of this information is new to anyone that retunes the EEC calibration. Not trying to scare anyone just wanted to find a C&L flow sheet.

Below is what Pro-M sends with every meter.
 

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SC Performance not to be confused with Super Coupe Performance. Two different companies, one is still around, one is not.
 
Well I guess that will teach me for being lazy. Ok sorry I didn't spell out the complete name. I bought the 73mm C&L Mass Air Flow meter from Bill Evenoff's "Super Coupe Performace, LLC" .
 
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