7 day SC Owner, and Major Trans Problems

tsc92

Registered User
Good Morning to the SCCOA Forum.

I am going into serious depression. I bought this 1992 SC (129,000 miles) and drove it for 1 week before it stopped accelerating, and died. For the week I drove it ran excellent, smooth & powerfully. So I left it for 4 months and looked to gather as much information on the AOD Transmission, Vaccuum Lines, Fuel System, & Sensors. Plus I looked into common problems associated with the Supercoupes & Recall Parts.

I am guessing the cluches are badly damaged, but if anyone can suggest other possibilities, anything else that could be wrong... I am open to last minute suggestions. I am just about ready to pull the trans and get it diagnosed professionally.

Symptoms-
----------

1. Tendency to stall in Park as soon as it Starts up.
- CPU Chip needed to relearn settings. Forced Idle @ 3000, then 2000, finally held a 1000rpm idle before the CPU took over and held the idle.

2. In ALL gears (1st, 2nd, Drive ODrive, Rev) Idle drops to 500 rpm and usually stalls dead, violently.

3. In neutral, sometimes the Drive Shaft vibrates, or shakes back & forth.

4. Once in drive, Idle drops to 500rpm... step on the gas, but it wont budge nor will the engine Rev Up. In Reverse, idle drops to 500rpm, stalls. Restart it in Neutral, put it back into Reverse and give it gas, lunges Foward Violently, then dead again.

I changed the transmission fluid before 'getting a feel' for the symptoms, changed the filter & gaskets...and the Neutral Start Switch/TR Sensor.
Tranmission Fluid was terribly burnt. Yes it all sound bad. I was Anticipating further problems, even after, solving the startup problem.

Any suggestions?
1-2 Valve? Cluch Plated Welded together? CPU Chip Malfunction? Vaccuum?

-Mike N (NJ)
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC (new owner)

Mike 38SC - Read your entire thread on rebuilding the valves on AOD Trans.
Hell of a job explaining that! Hope thats all I need.
 
Sorry to have to tell you this but your description of the car acting like the breaks are on and stalling when you put it in gear and try to take off means only one thing. The clutch's are welded together. Probably due to the improper setting of the TV cable or it came completely disconected. You will need a complete total rebuild of the tranny.
I have a qeustion: How do you know or what makes you think the driveshaft is vibrating or wobbling around at idle when the driveshaft is'nt even turning when the car is stopped and idleing?
 
what if the plates are stuck from being left for four months. i work on semi trucks and we wash them, park them and when we go out to get them and bring them in to work on them the rear drum brakes are sometimes stuck. it takes a lot of power to brake them loose. if the car ran good and you just parked it how can the plates be welded? just a thought.
 
Well the plates cant stick like brakes because there bathed in oil, brakes are not. Another very telling part of his story is the car and tranny worked just fine for a week. But the most telling thing is the burnt tranny fluid. Burnt tranny fluid is caused by only one thing, too much heat in the tranny. What causes too much heat in an auto tranny? Too much slipage of the clutch plates. Why would the clutch's slip too much? 2 reasons really, either the clutch plates were excessevly worn to begin with or more than likely the TV cable was set wrong or became disconnected completely.(a common problem on these cars) I've been there and done that and have the T shirt to match.
When that TV cable is not set right you can burn down an AOD within 2 miles or less of driving. The problem is most people like myself at the time assume that the TV cable is a passing gear kick down cable and dont think its that important. The TV cable actually adjusts the internall oil pressure inside the AOD which is used to actuate the clutch pistons(causing the clutch's to hold) and oporating the shift valves as well as lubing all the internal parts of the tranny. The best way to set the TV cable is with a pressure gauge runing off the TV port on the side of the tranny and NOT that stupid little pull the cable untill you get a certain lenght of cable hanging out of the adjuster at the throttlebody trick that everyone wants to use. That trick cost me my tranny and I know better now. ;)
 
MIKE 38sc said:
Well the plates cant stick like brakes because there bathed in oil, brakes are not.

Mike, I don't disagree with the rest of your response, and from the burnt fluid smell, believe that you're right. I just disagree with the quite above.

On motorcycles with wet clutches (that sit in oil), I've seen several cases where they stick after sitting for months, like over the winter. Sometimes they can be broken loose under power, like with popping the clutch at full throttle, and sometimes they have to be dismantled. I remember several times not being able to break the clutch plates loose when I put the front wheel up against a cement wall, decked the bike, and popped the clutch. This is on an open class motorcross bike, so it has lots of power.

The clutches in the Ford transmissions look identical to wet motorcycle clutches. Whether they would ever stick from just sitting, I have no idea.
 
could be a converter problem....But do we even know its tranny related?

Never had an AOD havbe its clutches fuse together..

Tell us how this all started
 
jpetillo said:
Mike, I don't disagree with the rest of your response, and from the burnt fluid smell, believe that you're right. I just disagree with the quite above.

On motorcycles with wet clutches (that sit in oil), I've seen several cases where they stick after sitting for months, like over the winter. Sometimes they can be broken loose under power, like with popping the clutch at full throttle, and sometimes they have to be dismantled. I remember several times not being able to break the clutch plates loose when I put the front wheel up against a cement wall, decked the bike, and popped the clutch. This is on an open class motorcross bike, so it has lots of power.

The clutches in the Ford transmissions look identical to wet motorcycle clutches. Whether they would ever stick from just sitting, I have no idea.

I understand what you're saying about motorcycle wet clutch's sticking being an old MXer myself. But just as you stated they break loose fairly easy with the small amount of HP they have compaired to an SC. My KX 250 and 500 clutch plates were about the same size as the AOD plates. When you put an idleing SC into D theres more than enough power there to break them loose if they stuck together. Big difference between the bike clutch's and auto tranny clutch's is the bikes have extreme spring tension clamping the plates together anytime the clutch lever is out. An auto tranny uses oil pressure to force a piston to clamp the plates together and only clamps them together that forcefully when the engine is running. Try stopping on a hill with an auto tranny leaving it in D and then turn off the engine without the brakes applied and you'll soon see what I'm talking about. :)
 
Mike,

I agree with what you're saying that there's no spring tension on an automatic when sitting vs. the bikes springs. That's the difference. I just wanted to point out that being in oil doesn't stop it clutch plates from sticking - it can happen.

Regards,
John
 
Something is Very Wrong

Hey. What a headache. You guys basically confirmed my best guess, which is the the cluch plates are destroyed...shot to death (as Saddams Sons were).

Well if you guys keep an eye on this thread, I will keep everyone posted on whats going on with the T-Bird. I have been making a TON on phone calls over that last couple months. Today, after running the self test diagnostics yesterday, the error code was 33 (EGR Not Set Correct or Defective)... and 'Engine Running' test 111 (Passed Test). This stunned me! I am not a mechanic, but I cannot believe the car is intellegent enough to diagnose itself... not with an expensive 'tester thing' but a simple Voltometer!

To follow up, and clarify any confusion, I parked the car 4 months ago because it had a problem. I knew about the problem. I dont know if a cluch could become defective from sitting (but I doubt it, cars are stored for period of time and usually just need minor tune-ups afterwards).. but my transmission was definately defective before it was sitting.

Today, after checking for error codes yesterday, I am going to drop the gas tank, slide the driveshaft out of the transmission (bolts removed already from gearbox/driveshaft), and assess what I need to remove the transmission. I took the exhaust system down 1 week ago.

As for repair costs, $1600- from one shop to rebuild, $550 for just Valve work from another... I found a junkyard transmission (30 day guarentee) for $350, for my year, make & model T-Bird.
...Another Transmission Shop here in NJ, offered me a FREE inspection of the transmission. They will take the top off and inspect the cluch plates, gears etc...check the valves etc. I got this FREE, because I MYSELF am removing the transmission, and bringing it to them...so they arent storing the car on their crowded lot OR being bothered with removing all the S*** to get the transmission out. If its valve work, I'm going by Mike 38SC's step-by-step instructions and doing the work myself.

Best Luck to everyone. And I'll post again later tonight.
-Mike N
 
Headache

My father is dead set against me removing the transmission. He tells me to spend the $1600 and tow it there...but it isnt his money. Basically I have been ready to remove the transmission for the past 2 months, he keeps stalling and holding me up...he tells me to go talk to the Ford Authorized Repair Shop, get more estimates...yada yada.
Just getting sick all the talking about it and not DOING anything about it. He even told me I couldnt use his Impact Gun. I can do the work & I understand exactly what I'm getting into.

I have a court date in 10 days, a very serious 1 years suspension, but I didnt do it!! Tell it to the judge, young man. Ok, I will. And I am moving at the end of the month. I need to get to work! Oh, And remind me to pick up a six pack.

"We are officers of the law. When we took the oath in the acadamy, we promised to protect and serve... To PROTECT and SERVE...da DOUGHNUTS!
- Reno 911
 
Gas Tank & Drive Shaft Removed

I got the gas tank out, then undid the last 2 bolts on the driveshaft by raising 1 tire and spinning that tire. That spun the driveshaft 180 degrees so I could access the bolts. All of the warnings and danger of removing the gas tank, and removing it went without incedent. It wasnt easy, there are a lot of hoses on top of the tank...3 in the back, 2 in front & an electrical connection in the front. Then lowered the tank & heatshield onto a carpet to avoid 'sparks' that could ignite the gas fumes. btw... the return hose & the outgoing-to-fuel-injectors hose were the only two hoses that spewed out gasoline.

I removed the rear half of the exhaust system a while ago, all thats left now is the front half of the exhaust system. Then I can get to the transmission.

I cant get the bolts out of the exhaust manifold attached to the exhaust pipes on both sides of the engine.
Does anyone know if the bolts are regular bolts or fused to the manifold? The bolts need to be replaced but I cant tell if they are actually part of the manifold or not.

-Mike N
1992 Thunderbird SC
 
Hey, Jersey guy here.

Where are you from. We have several trans places that do rebuilds of AOD's for our club members. Contact me at (973) 277-4294 and I can direct you in the correct direction.

Our website is kinda working, (under a moving process to new server), so if you can get on, check out NJTACC.COM

Anyway, call me so that maybe I can give you some options.


Don
 
How do you know the clutches are shot if the tranny hadnt been taken apart yet?

Regardless a freind of mine spent 1800 at AAMCO for his SC tbird AOD..And it wasnt all that great...Thast pulling and installing...a GOOD REBUILD SHOULDNT COST YOU MORE THEN 1000..However sometimes when you do teh installation you DO NOT get a warranty...SOmething to look into
 
My first week of a AOD after buying SC.floored the car once in OD
(A) part is ok,OD=JUNK,USELESS

Second tranny 3500 miles later. slips

Third tranny 1500 miles just fell apart will not disengage when tring to stop.

5000 total miles on SC
Forth tranny No way SC is parked in the weeds.Because AODs are JUNK.

Tits on a bore are worth more than a AOD tranny.

OK, I am ready for the FLAMING for telling the truth.I can take it.:rolleyes:

RANDY
 
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Expect call to No.Arlington SC Owner....

Hey Don, expect me to call sometime tomorrow regarding your offer. I'm sure we have some things to discuss, I hope it works out. Visited your NJTACC, now I have two enthusiast sites to visit everyday.

So the bolts on my exhaust manifold are rusted so bad, nothing but an impact will break them. Remind me NOT to reuse those bolts, gotta get new ones. And to the dude who said AOD's are junk on the SC, after blowing my transmission in 1 week, I totally agree with you. Seriously, Ford people know that car has major flaws in design & engineering. How long did Ford use these AODs? I think they went into some SC & other Ford cars around 88-94 then they pulled them for obvious reasons. Thats why, all SuperCoupe owners have to rebuild their transmissions.
 
after a week delay

Finally finished taking the front-end of the exhaust off my 92 SC, after a week wait to get the air tools. First tried to loosen the bolts, those bolts are original from 1992, or nearly original. Ended up cutting the bolts out.

Since my cat.conv. are out now, anyone think I should replace them? I am definately going with true dual-exhaust as soon as I get the cash. 2" - 2 1/4"

I doubt I am taking the transmission off in my driveway, 22 inches off the ground, with only a few power tools at hand. But now, with the gas tank, drive shaft, braces, gas lines, electric connectors, and entire exhaust system removed- see what's next? Taking another look at it first thing tomorrow morning.

Leaking trans fluid out from the seal where the drive shaft sits in the transmission, but that should be expected w/o the driveshaft in place. Going to need to replace the seal anyway 1nce the transmission is rebuilt in the next 2 weeks.

Drive hard but dont wreck your CARS!
-Mike N
 
whatthe...

jpetillo said:
On motorcycles with wet clutches (that sit in oil), I've seen several cases where they stick after sitting for months, like over the winter. Sometimes they can be broken loose under power, like with popping the clutch at full throttle, and sometimes they have to be dismantled. I remember several times not being able to break the clutch plates loose when I put the front wheel up against a cement wall, decked the bike, and popped the clutch. This is on an open class motorcross bike, so it has lots of power.

I've never serviced an aod, but I've rebuilt a few bike clutches, and what youi say here jpetillo doesn't make any sense to me. If the clutch plates are stuck together, how are you popping the clutch? If they are stuck together, then the clutch would be stuck engaged. There would only be two ways you could start it. 1. Tranny in neutral - you wouldn't be able to shift into gear, unless you mean you are putting the front tire against a wall, revving up the motor, and dropping it in gear without using the clutch(it's stuck)? If you would do this to your tranny, remind me not to have you work on my bike lol. 2. Pop-start the bike - but then you would have to drive it into the wall at speed then punch it more lol, and if so remind me not to let you service my bike again. Otherwise, if the clutch plates were stuck not to each other, but just each to the "basket", then the clutch would be stuck disengaged, and popping the clutch wouldn't work because it's stuck disengaged. Conclusion: One of us is confused or making things up!
 
Randy N Connie said:
My first week of a AOD after buying SC.floored the car once in OD
(A) part is ok,OD=JUNK,USELESS

Second tranny 3500 miles later. slips

Third tranny 1500 miles just fell apart will not disengage when tring to stop.

5000 total miles on SC
Forth tranny No way SC is parked in the weeds.Because AODs are JUNK.

Tits on a bore are worth more than a AOD tranny.

OK, I am ready for the FLAMING for telling the truth.I can take it.:rolleyes:

RANDY

Was this all done by the same mechanic? Maybe it's your mechanic that is defective? It seems to me the aod went in tbirds, mustangs, crown vics(beat on by cops), trucks etc...for year after year in millions of vehicles. I think most of them had no problems right? It seems to me if it's built to spec and maintained properly and not abused there should be no problems really. And by the way another guy said they got rid of the aod and replaced it with the 4r70w...well as far as I understand, the 4r70w is actually aode-4r70w which is an aode(aod made to shift electronically) with a wide-ratio gear-set which is what the 4r70w stands for. So the 4r70w is just an aod built up a little with some bells and whistles added too.

Don't get me wrong though, my 4r70w doesn't shift right, but hey, it's got 100k on a rebuild that I didn't trust right after I got it, and thought was gonna fail a loooong time ago. Still transmits the torque just fine, just shifts slow. I'm sure mine too just needs to be put together right with good parts.
 
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Update Trans Repair

I am putting in new (ehm... well used/reserviced) transmission in the next couple days. Please a couple of questions... help me out here.

1) I am upgrading to X-Pipe with true dual exhaust, two pipes 2" - 2 1/4".
Should I replace the Cat.Converters?

2) What seals, gaskets, etc. do I need for the transmission? Kit # / Part #s
I know 1-2 Accumulator & 1-2 Valve Spring are recalled. Any other inexpensive & easily installed parts that should be replaced, serviced? Upgrades you suggest?

3) Can I powdercoat the drive shaft & exhaust pipes, black paint? Just a style preference. Not really important, maybe do, maybe wont.

Been a busy but good day. Got my replacement transmission!

-Mike N
 
Shooter_Jay said:
I've never serviced an aod, but I've rebuilt a few bike clutches, and what youi say here jpetillo doesn't make any sense to me. If the clutch plates are stuck together, how are you popping the clutch?
SNIP
Conclusion: One of us is confused or making things up!

Stooter_Jay, wow, this is an old thread!

ANyway, you're right, I never popped the clutch - it was old age getting the better of me - and me writing without thinking.

Yes, as you guessed, because of the stuck clutch plates, I would start the bike up in neutral, hold in the clutch, rev the engine slightly, then stab it into gear hoping the clutch plates would instantly free up. Unfortunately, they never did! If you ever had a racing dirt bike, you'd know that clutches are pretty-much extraneous - and nothing like what we're stuck with for cars. You can bang them into gear all day long and the tranmission wouldn't break a sweat. What I did isn't good, though. Also, you simply never-ever shifter with the clutch - up or down!

To break the plates free, I had to get the bike up at speed in a high gear, pull in the clutch, and keep whipping the throttle. It would take a while, but they eventually gave.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
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