View Full Version : REALLY sad story...lost my manhood today...

05-03-2004, 03:36 AM
I...I...I may have trouble confessing this to all of you. I was unintentionally beat by a Wagon. Some of you may be thinking WRX, Protege, etc. Something with a possible "engine" in it. Well no, i got beat by an 80's Chrysler...wagon...with some ghetto "Bass Terd" in it. First i passed him in my downtown area. at like 40 mph. speed limit of 35. well before i know what's going on this wagon (tan with fake wood trim all over it and on the doors) passes me...tail end draggin and front end like 4 feet in the air (bad suspension). so i drop a gear and slowly get on it thinking i'll be at his fender in seconds...thsi wasn't hte case. the dude wasnt' even floored when he passed me. so i nailed it...only to be competely massacred. so i hang my head, wave and merge onto the freeway. well he follows me. and i think..."hmmm...these 2.73's shine out here on the freeway" so i get on it in 3rd and my car feels like it's gonna jump out of itself. it pulls awesome. and hear again...this whistling sound...comes ROARING up my A$$ and FLIES by me. APPARENTLY 2.73's don't do crap against pumped up white trash 80's turbo wagons with KOOL side mouldings that look like a kid drew wood on them. yeah.

to say the least...watch out for wagons and old people. steve.

XR7 Dave
05-03-2004, 08:57 AM
:confused: :D That is about the funniest thing I have read all week.

1982 Reliant K-car wagon - $200
Parts to jack boost up to 18psi - $1.99
Bumper sticker that says "I brake for fishing holes" - $.99
Walking Mr. Smooth in his fancy pantsy Tbird not once but twice? - PRICELESS!!!!


05-03-2004, 09:32 AM


05-03-2004, 09:53 AM

Don't feel bad, this type of thing has happened to me more than i like. And I have figured that SC's basically do not have enough gear leverage and a wide enough power band to handle those freaky cars like that on the road. Depending on how fast you are already going, SC's don't have it on upper mids and top end (if it's stock or even mildly modded). One day i had a Hyundai Sonata embarass me going up a mild grade uphill. from 50 mph i floored my car beside his and he pulled away from me. i was upset about this and began to curse at the SC. but then i wanted to know why he was able to do that. Let's see... i have about 210 rear wheel hp on the top end which means that my torque is diminishing as my rpms climb to near 5000 rpm. Down low i know i have tremendous torque, but the gear ratios don't allow enough leverage to put maximum torque to the ground from 50 mph (not enough high rpm/torque range either). Then i basically figured out the wheel hp and torque curve of the hyundai. to my surprise, the hyundai generates 161 front wheel hp, and if you divide this into the weight of the car (3450 lbs), it had a power to weight ratio of 22lbs per hp. Guess what?? my SC's power to weight ratio is 20lbs per hp approaching the top end rpms. Compare this to a dodge viper with 400+ rwhp (you know for sure this car will beat down the hyundai.. badly) which weighs the same as the hyundai and it only has to carry 8lbs per hp (HUGE difference). The 3.8 v6 just doesn't breathe deep enough to overcome the weight of the SC. Unfortunately, most of us here don't realize that because of the weight issue our SC's power to weight ratios are really not any better than most run of the mill boring cars like hyundai's, altima's, maxima's, and even some SUV's. this sucks. i can't wait to put on a whipple charger. come on Dave!!

Anyway that's why we get beat like that. but sometimes we luckily hit the sweet spot in our power curve and blow away most cars- initially anyway- usually from a standstill.

down low my SC has a torque to weight ratio of 13lbs per unit of torque at the wheels. this is the car's forte' (mildly modded anyway).

05-03-2004, 10:11 AM
I've been there, man. When I used to live in Decatur there was a guy who was all about those old Chrysler 2.2 turbos. My buddy was crusing Eldorado St. (the strip, per se) in his slightly modded Z26 Beretta and got taken by this Dodge Aries wagon. He said it came out of a gas station just burning its tires off and pulled up next to him. My buddy thought he was joking so he ran him...and got dealth with.

The next night we went cruising, him in his Beretta and me in the Super and a couple of FRS radios. All of a sudden, he pops on yelling "Justin! It's him! Look up ahead! I'll try to get him to pull off!" So he pulls up next to him and tells him to stop at the Hardee's right down the way, so we all pull in. It was an Aries K wagon with a 2.2T, extra boost, stripped interior, 5spd, any extra weight removed, 3g fuel cell...this guy could walk around the back of this thing and pick it up himself. So after our introductions we line it up at the nearby light heading out of town and open them up. I botched the launch a bit (this was just a couple months after I got the car and was still finding where to launch a 5spd) so he got ajump on me, but a Caddy was in front of me so I pulled around and we redid a rolling start and I got a jump on him. I led him by no more than a carlength or 1.5 all the way up to 110 when I shut it down.

We went back to the Hardees and traded compliments and so forth. Then he said he would love to race again when he got his intercooler hooked back up. Oh ****...

Last I heard he scrapped the wagon and dropped this mill/tranny into a LeBaron. I guess it's a good thing I don't live in Decatur anymore. Heh.

Scott Long
05-03-2004, 11:26 AM
Beat by a Hyundai Sonata? Jesus H. Christ. I wouldn't even admit to that. There's no excuse in the book for that. Your car should have went down to 2nd gear at 12 psi and you should have walked his ***. Either you can't drive or your trans doesn't downshift or you have a leaking head gasket.

About those turbo chryslers, they are no joke. Ever see the mini-van running 12's or the 12 second acclaim? I want a spirit r/t or a turbo acclaim as a daily ride. You can manaully adjust boost with some cheap parts and catch a lot of cars by surprise. The Spirit R/T and the Daytona R/T from 93 were low 14 second cars stock. I used to have an Acclaim w/ a 2.5 but it was not turbo and it was slow as hell. Good on gas though. Should've kept it if I'd have known how gas and insurance was gonna go up. Live and learn.

The problem is Chrysler put that motor into all kinds of vehicles so you never know whats gonna be quick. 2-drs, 4-drs, mini-vans, station wagons. With the SC/XR7 we are the only car with this engine. Unless you swap it into something else. Look at how many Ford vehicles got 302's and 351's. There is a guy around here (haven't seen in about a year) with a dark green F-150 2wd long box with a pro-charger on it and a 5-speed w/ 3.73's. Truck ran low 13's at the track with just some concrete powder bags in the bed on street tires. I guess the story was the guy cracked up his stang beyond repair and had the truck to use as a daily. Well must not have had full coverage insurance so he just swapped the engine into the truck. Talk about a sleeper.

Be careful when you see those chrysler's. There's articles all over the place online about how to make a boost control for like $2.00 from Home Depot. So you never know. And leave the Hyundai's alone. Getting owned just looks bad.

05-03-2004, 12:01 PM

First of all, i can drive. Second, you should have understood this from a technical point of view. I was going uphill in 3rd, maybe a little faster than 50. Yes, my AOD transmission did downshift into 2nd and i was tacking around 3k rpms and climbing fast. It's also possible that i may have delayed my reaction slightly- he might have gotten a slight jump on me. If you know anything about stock or mild modded SC's you would have known that power begins to diminish above 3.5k rpms. i was already at a slight disadvantage because torque and horsepower are the same at 5252 rpms. Since my SC puts out around 210 wheel hp that means my torque was falling off down to around 210 ft lbs AT THE WHEELS. 210 ft lbs IS NOT GOING TO KICK ANYBODYS A** ESPECIALLY IF THE CAR WEIGHS 4,000+ LBS- and then you're pulling a hill too??

Do the math, you'll see what i'm talking about.

Now if i had 300 to 350+ rwhp like everyone here is talking about, it would have been dramatically different.

05-03-2004, 12:20 PM
Horsepower should not have mattered, you had torq on your side. Somoe of you need to seriously take a look at your SC's and find those boost leaks!

HAH! The silliest thing I been beaten by was a GTI, but it was turboed with a waste gate and was DAMNED quick. This was a week before I spun the rod bearing after the HG's blew :cool:

05-03-2004, 12:41 PM
you're not understanding the relationship of torque and horsepower. torque starts out big on the low end, hence the big 300-400 ft lbs at 2600 rpm or so. but it FALLS OFF as rpm increases above 3500. when you hit 5000 rpm YOUR HP IS THE SAME AS TORQUE. There is a mathematical formula that supports this. IF YOUR SC PUTS OUT 200 REAR WHEEL HP AT 5K, YOUR TORQUE WILL BE AROUND 200 FT LBS AT 5K. Now with 200 ft lbs carrying 4000+ lbs, would someone please tell me how it's technically possible to straight up outrun another car that is lighter with almost as much hp? you know that most of these new "family" cars out here are generating above 200 hp. Sure.. i would beat almost anyone OFF THE LINE where torque is abundant in an SC.

does anyone here understand what i'm trying to say?

05-03-2004, 12:46 PM

i don't have any boost leaks, and if anything i'm generating too much boost because of the intake mods i have. i have iridium plugs, and a ported m90 with most of the bottlenecks eliminated (except for the exhaust and IC). Maybe with exhaust and a bigger IC mine would put out 240 at the wheels- which would then allow me to beat down some more cars on the top end.

05-03-2004, 01:07 PM

i don't have any boost leaks, and if anything i'm generating too much boost because of the intake mods i have. i have iridium plugs, and a ported m90 with most of the bottlenecks eliminated (except for the exhaust and IC). Maybe with exhaust and a bigger IC mine would put out 240 at the wheels- which would then allow me to beat down some more cars on the top end.

lol dude, you dont have to get defensive about it. Every dog has his day.

Scott Long
05-03-2004, 01:29 PM
I see what you're saying from a technical standpoint. But....

This is what I'm saying. It shouldn't matter. The SC is a far more powerful vehicle than an econo-sedan like the Sonata. You said you had intake mods but exhaust restrictions and stock IC? Your intake air charge temp is probably so high that the computer is detecting knock, retarding the timing, and killing horsepower. What exhaust mods do you have? A good exhaust will lower boost a bit which will decrease the temp, and a larger IC is detrimental to performance when running a pullied or ported blower.

I would bet $100 that my 90 SC w/ only exhaust and a K&N and a shift kit would not have gotten beat by that Sonata, up a hill down a hill, from a roll, from a dig, it doesn't matter. Sonata's are slower than molasses running down a hill. The day I get beat by one is the day I sell that SC.

I would be pink slips it wouldn't take my 5-speed SC.

Sounds like you need to get some issues w/ your car resolved. Not trying to flame you here, but seriously, that shouldn't have happened.

05-03-2004, 02:14 PM

i sorry if i seem defensive. maybe you're right- my engine does detonate occasionally under load like as if it has carbonization in one or two cylinders. my intake mods are mostly homemade as in home depot. my SC has responded very well to the changes- bored out stock MAF, k&n panel, removed silencer, 3" intake tube, 70 mm tb, port matched inlet plenum, max bored m90 supercharger (inlet and outlets), mp raised top, port matched intake to IC tube, iridium plugs, underdrive pulleys, that's about it.
Using a stock sc pulley, the m90 boosts 15 psi at 5k rpms.
with 5% pulley it boosts over 16-17psi (too much). i figure its puttin out 35-40 hp over stock for 250 hp at the engine.

maxima's, altima's, and some honda's are putting out 260 hp at the engine top end. if i have my sc wound all the way up and they have theirs wound all the way up and they are lighter than mine, who you would think would win? keep in mind torque and hp is the same at 5k rpms.

my sc = 250 engine hp at 5k rpm

honda = 260 engine hp at 6k rpm (lighter cars)


if i started out from a stop light at WOT

my sc = 360-380 ft lbs of engine torque at 2.5-3k rpms

honda = 200-220 ft lbs (?) of engine torque at 3-4k rpms

so it all depends on where you are starting from, and how much torque is leveraged to the ground between both cars.

the hyundai (at 191 engine hp) got me because he was just getting into his power band and i was moving out of my max power band. we were both pulling a hill. he is much lighter too. for that instance the sc was putting out more wheel hp, but because we had almost equal power to weight ratio and my sc was running out of power on the top end, he slowly pulled away- because he was also much lighter going up that hill.

but i do believe i would have taken him on flat ground above 100 mph, easily.

05-03-2004, 02:53 PM
I was out last thursday, crusin Academy Boulevard, anyway, I pull up to this 67/68 mustang with the hood off it and looking crappy. He even had the stinkbug stance to it, you know, the huge tires in the back and the skinny ones in the front...I have beaten many cars like that...what makes this one different? We leave the light and I decided to mess with him a little bit. Keep in mind I dont have a 2nd gear, I need a synchro...

At about a 50 mph roll I was in 3rd and I decide to rev a couple of times to get his attention and took off...I was about half way past him when I hear the throaty V-8 rev and he took off like a bat out of hell....I had no chance to keep up, and he passed me like I was standing still...I pull him over and get a chance to talk to him. He has a fiberglass body with a 460 in it :eek: ! He is in the process of getting an autorotor or juice...he is still debating...must be nice to have money... :rolleyes:


05-03-2004, 05:17 PM
I just have to say it....

Who has been smoking crack here lately?

A stock auto 94 SC is going to be doing 15.4 or better..With mods more..

My 94 SC which did a whopping 15.1 on both passes..(one with traction control on) the other with it off spinning one tire.

Now this same car (I do have a superchip in it which gets rid of speed limiter) WASTED more then its fair share of cars top end including the older style SL500 Benz 1990 (something) on the way to carisle last year...I was continually pulling on this guy up till about 145 when I just kept pulling and he compeltely lost it. Ive blown away a few fox bodied stangs, F bodys, a lightning..A whole crap load..Bone stock motor with bolt ons...

So not for nothing a perfectly running stock or lightly modded SC will not lose to a 160hp hyundai..No way..Especially once you are moving

05-03-2004, 06:09 PM
Anyone ever stop to think there wasnt a hyundai motor in there? Almost all Hyundai chassis's are a direct bolt in for a 4G63T motor.. For those of you that dont know thats a Turbo Eclipse motor.. Minor mods will net you 220-250whp without anyone realizing the car was modified... Just some food for thought..

05-03-2004, 06:15 PM
Dont feel to bad. I got this video of a lates 80s early 90s Minivan handning a Z28 Camaro his *** at the strip. The Van runs a mid 12. I also got a video of a Dodge Aries (Its the wagon with a tunnk instead) that runs mid 10s. If somebody has a place to host it, Ill send it to them to post.

05-03-2004, 06:37 PM
don't laugh at these GLH-Shttp://www.xmission.com/~dempsey/shelby/sheldod4.htm
anywhere in the rev range of the SC
cause they really do go like hell somemore :eek: ...dave

Parker Dean
05-03-2004, 07:11 PM
I like how the Hyundai keeps losing power with every post, LOL! 200+hp, 181hp, 160hp. Keep it up, we'll get that thing beat yet! :D

05-03-2004, 07:43 PM
The chances of running into a quick Hyundai are as good as running into a quick SC..That being said......I mean you can stick a 4v 03 SC Cobra motor in a Tbird too.....But reallllyyyyy

Thomas A
05-03-2004, 11:54 PM
Keep it up, we'll get that thing beat yet!
hahahahahahha!!! :D :D


2 Hot 2 Handle
05-04-2004, 12:50 AM
Maybe you do have problems with your SC, but all in all this is a fun thread...sorry guys but Scs do get beat stock or modified( we all know this)
I've seen some crazy stuff in my days of racing at the second oldest NHRA drag strip in the country (Julesburg Dragstrip...NE CO.),
Ive seen beat up dodge vans with 426 Hemis whip that crap out most anything you can imagine...on street tires. You gotta know your competition.
I once had a 70 4 door Impala with a trunk that was nearly non existant due to the previous owners close contact with death by way of an 18 wheeler.
This brown boat , looked as though it was resurected from the scrap yard, with rust holes and half a trunk.
Everyone laughed at it till it blew their doors off. Under the hood was a well tuned 350cid/350Hp interceptor motor & 3.42 posi out back...all stock.
Now today I have lots of fun when people come up to the SC at the track and say..."very impressive" after watching the 92 run down a modded 70 454 Chevelle SS.
Have fun guys & remember respect anything cause you never know,
the next guy may like modding his car more than you do yours....no matter what it is.

05-04-2004, 01:19 AM
Ummmm... errr.. ummm...a Sonata? Ummmm... ya..... If it was a 2.4 4cyl.. it had a whopping 138 hp@5500 and 147 lb-ft@3000. If it was a 2.7 V6, it was 170 HP@6000 and 181 lb-ft@4000 Linky - Sonata Specs (http://www.hyundaiusa.com/Vehicles/Sonata/Features_Specs/Vehicle_Details.asp) There is no excuse to lose to one if it's stock. If you're stock auto is holding your SC over 5000, somethings wrong. Should shift before that and stay in the powerband. A 16.5 - 17.0 is about the best a V6 would do... ugh.

Anyway... to make everyone feel better... I owned a new Muskrat Cobra on the way back from lunch today. :) I think he expected to run me down after giving me a 2 car length headstart (rolling from 50mph or so). Too bad I never let up and my car's as powerful ( or moreso) than his was and I just walked 'im. hehehe heehehe.. hehehe.. hee...he eehhe... Yes.. I was gigglin' like a little kid for about a half hour. :D

Oh.. and before the B.S. posts start.... my sig isn't current. ;) :p

05-04-2004, 08:26 AM
you guys are really hung up on the hyundai. if you do the math correctly, you will find out that a 2003 hyundai sonata rated (at least in the magazines) at 190 hp has almost the same power-to-weight ratio as a stock SC at the hp peaks. i'm not really trying to make anyone feel bad or put down the SC because i am in love with this car and i plan to do big things with it.
if you have a stock SC rated at 210 hp at 4400 rpm (and think about it- power will continue to fall below 210 as rpms climb higher), divide 4000lbs into 210 and the SC has to carry 19 lbs per hp generated at 4400 rpms. by the time this car is at 5200 rpms, power would have fallen dramatically. Do the same for the hyundai and you will see-

stock sc = 210hp at 4400rpm, 4000 lbs
210/4000 = 19 lbs/hp

2003 hyundai sonata = 190hp at 5500rpm(?), 3450 lbs
190/3450 = 18 lbs/hp

the stock sc carries 19 lbs/hp at it's power peak 4400 rpms
the hyundai carries 18 lbs/hp at it's power peak 5500 rpms (and this car weighs much less)

so logically, which one of these cars will walk the other on the top end?

the sc will absolutely rule down low off the line because of it's prodigious torque, it will out accelerate the hyundai badly, but remember, torque and horsepower is the same at 5252 rpms. if you are already at 60 mph or so beside this hyundai and you both go WOT, the hyundai will keep up with you because both powerbands are pretty much equal at the top end, stock for stock. Now maybe your driving style or method of lauch may have something to do with the sc beating these cars. lots of variables here to consider.

05-04-2004, 09:46 AM
You are leaving out alot of other factors. Like how the Sonata will rattle apart at speeds over 100 MPH. And how the power is transfered to the ground. And, torque is more important the HP in the hillclimb. A Sonata has crap for torque. Torque is also what overcomes the aerodynamic drag. A car with more torque will climb a hill, or pull something or overcome any force applied to it easier than a car with less torque.

If you were to compare the numbers (power to weight ratio), then the SC should be able to be beat by just about anything on the road.


05-04-2004, 12:12 PM
in a stock SC, torque is massive at low rpms peaking out to 315 ft lbs at 2600 rpm- the fat curve starting roughly from about 1800 rpm to about 3800 rpm, beyond that the torque curve falls off to almost match the low 210hp (probably around 250 ft lbs or so) at 4400 rpm. it falls off even quicker beyond 4400 rpm. when it reaches 5200 rpm, torque is at 190 ft lbs or so. What this means is the stock SC's forte' is the bottom end. So if you challenge anyone in a lighter car with 200 hp or more at high rpms in a stock SC, you are most likely going to find it hard to outrun them (the issue here is if you use high rpms).
BUT- if you position yourself above 100 mph in 4th or OD (in an AOD), you will be getting back into your massive torque band and the car will start pulling fairly hard again feeling like it has 300 hp under the hood.
The SC now that i have analyzed this will actually outrun alot of cars if one knows when to apply the right gear according to the speed you are going. This is also where we get into the properties of whether a 5 speed or an AOD would be better. I can see now that unless you have a built up SC with an AOD, a 5 speed would probably be better in most cases.

consider this-

Just because we have all of this torque to play with does not mean that every instance we get on it that all the torque is actually making it to the ground. Our gear ratios are set up to produce big leverage down low, but it depends on the rpm band we are in, and there is a fair advantage at upper high speeds as well. But there are some flat spots at midrange speeds on an AOD (lack of leverage due to gear ratios) where this car seems to bog a little. And then approaching 105 mph in 3rd, it runs out of breath again (at least in an AOD). Shift to 4th or use OD above 100, then we are back in our powerband again and the car pulls hard again.

So some of us here are having successful challenges on the street, and some of us are not. I guess it boils down to how and when you apply the torque of the SC.