Need Customers for Improved Exhaust Flow

[flynbrd]

I spoke with a rep from mpg that may makes port plates for the sc heads. His concern is with the number of customers that maybe interested in this product. If there is enough demand he'll make the plates for the heads. If you would be interested in port plates for the sc heads please reply to this posting. Btw port plates are inserts that go between the head and exhaust manifold. The plates reshape the exhaust radius to improve exhaust flow. Talk to any head porter and they will tell you that the sc heads have horrable exhaust radius. My old set of heads had the exhaust radius welded up which caused a noticable increase in cfm.

Thanks for your time

-John

[super red91]

Any pictures of port plates? Im still confused as to how they actually work.

[flynbrd]

Attached is a pic from mpg website.

[super red91]

OK i understand now. About how much do you think a set would cost?

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

John seriously if they make a difference on a stock head and the cost isnt all that much ...Im sure there would be a great demand ,,Theye worked wonders on old cleveland heads

[Scott Long]

I'd be VERY interested. Might be cheaper than welding. I port matched my heads and went deeper into the exhaust side to open up, but the ports left a lot to be desired. Hopefully these would be reasonably priced. I am interested. Keep us posted.

[MIKE 38sc]

John seriously if they make a difference on a stock head and the cost isnt all that much ...Im sure there would be a great demand ,,Theye worked wonders on old cleveland heads

You're absolutely right Damon! Here's a set of those Cleveland plates and they work fantastic! ;)

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

YA SEE MOM..I'M NOT A CRACKHEAD!!!!!!..Ford has been known to do strange things with exhaust ports...

If they make up a set and do some before andafter numbers....I think they would have a winner..

[flynbrd]

I have no idea on price, judging from previous priced items at the website I would say around 120-180, it all depends on how detailed he gets. At least its an easy bolt on.

[XR7 Dave]

That would be awesome! Get it going. I would see a couple hundred sets going out by the time it was all said and done.

[quick35th]

I could be interested as well. Any idea what kind of gains we might expect from them?

Shane

[92strokedbird]

Sounds like a better thing than paying over $1000 for a set of welded heads!

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Yes remeber stang guys could use these as well

[thumpjimmy]

Could someone please explain the advantages of these. Thanks for the help.

[super red91]

They reshape the exhaust port for better exhaust flow, they are used instead of having the head welded.

[Scott Long]

Any word. I have my money sitting here ready to order. Hell I'll probably do two sets, one per SC. Keep us posted.

[Conan56]

Count me in

[flynbrd]

Mpg will need a donor head for the project. I used my last set on the sc; anyone have a spare? I'm sure the condition will not matter so if you have a cracked or warped head speak up. Also can anyone confirm if the n/a 3.8 head has the exact same exhaust runner as the sc?

Thanks
-John

[Toms-SC]

Just like the others I would need to see some dyno runs. How are these 'inserts' as they appear to be, held in? :confused:

[XR7 Dave]

Guys, you aren't going to get dyno runs on this. Anyone who knows cylinder heads knows that the lack of a short turn radius on our heads is a big problem. Even at marginal improvement this is a bargain and it is truely a bolt on modification. How many people have spent $200+ on roller rockers that didn't improve performance at all? Or headers for that matter. Absolute lowest gain would have to be around 15rwhp and a better estimate would be around 20-25rwhp. These plates can also be used in conjunction with ported heads and can be ported themselves. The key is to buy these first before you have the heads ported.

Who has a junk head laying around? And yes, any N/A 3.8 head will work just fine. Lets get this going as it represents one of the biggest developments to date for our cars. I didn't know these things even existed before. Shows how much I know. But I do know that they will work wonders for our heads.

As for holding them in, they are held in by the exhaust manifold bolts.

[tim]

Ok so I guess I dont get it. it looks to me loke they make the port smaller? Is this something that can be done to a car that has the engine in or does it require pulling the heads? Tim

[XR7 Dave]

The exhaust ports in our engines are actually too big and are not shaped properly. This makes it possible to improve flow by using the extra unneeded space to create a smooth air pathway without turbulence. The $2300 Steigemeier heads have smaller than stock exhaust ports. Also, as David Niebert pointed out on his big HP 347 V8, the exhaust ports are smaller than his SC ports.

Stock SC ports flow about 110cfm. Good ported ones flow about 180cfm. Steigs flow about 220 cfm.

These plates are completely bolt on. They only require removing the exhaust manifolds/headers to install.

[Jason Wild]

I think would like a set I dont need any dyno numbers to know these will help all I want to know is price?

[89_Red_Xr7]

Absolute lowest gain would have to be around 15rwhp and a better estimate would be around 20-25rwhp.

Where do I sign?

Andrew :D

[flynbrd]

Portplates install by pulling the header back installing the plates with gaskets on both sides then bolting back on the header. The plates add a short-turn radius to the exhaust floor. This radius will make the exhaust port smaller however the exhaust velocity is greatly increased as it exits the head. Combine this with a free flowing exhaust and watch the wheels spin. This would be a great bolt on!!

[tim]

Sign me up for a set. I already have big valves and roller rockers. This is a lot cheaper and easier than a custom weld job. Tim

[PurpleHaze]

yes I shall jump into this venture :D

[ColoSC]

I am interested in a set also!

[Toms-SC]

Anybody going to give the company a test set so this can happen soon? :confused:

[cougarsc]

Where is the company located? I imagine they just need one head to make six exhaust plates. I've got a junk head for donation. I sliced one exhaust port for fun...the other two ports are fine. I guess everyone chip in $0.25 for shipping.

[92strokedbird]

Count me in!

[quick35th]

I want in on this also!

Shane

[ptstang04]

oh yes, i joined this forum just to reply to this.

[chorizon]

i'm in, as long as they work on the n/a heads, i'm there!! :D

[Mike8675309]

Here is a picture of the 3.8 exhaust port as cut a-part by Tbird88 (http://www.texasthunderbirds.com).

http://www.datarecall.net/~tbird88/index/tbirds/tech/eng/exhaust5636.jpg

Port plates should be very helpful.

[Randy N Connie]

Its not that the exhaust port is to large,as it has no short side radius.
And the short side radius needs weld build up to have enough aluminum
to build a proper shaped short side radius.By the time you cut a radius
into the shortside .You are getting into the valve seat.So this part must
be raised to maximze linear flow,as can be done around a curve.My thumb
rule is to match the shortside radius to the roof radius.As a starting point
in flow testing to get a maximzed port shape.For later porting & testing.
Then you can pour a two part rubber in the port, to make a rubber mold.
Then pull the mold out of the port .And map the mold for future reference
for the next port job.Once you are happy that you have maximized the
port shape.

Port plates are great if you don't know how to port,or don't have the time or money to get a port job from someone like Steg's.This will be a great mod for most.

Randy

[flynbrd]

Please excuse the poor art skill but I think everyone will get the point.

:eek:

[chorizon]

cool! i want a set yesterday, hehe, how long after they get the donor head will it be before they have a working prototype?......later'z....... :D

[joenintiesc]

I just installed a set of ported heads on my SC. Does this mean I would not be able to utilize these, since my heads were ported without entering these plates into the equation?

[BlackbirdSC]

I just installed a set of ported heads on my SC. Does this mean I would not be able to utilize these, since my heads were ported without entering these plates into the equation?

I have a complete head that Duffy gave me a while back for comparision. I'd actually cleaned it and done a basic 3 angle valve job on the center cylinder. I even had it flow tested for comparision to the ported heads I did.

Anyway, lemme know where to send it for testing. I'd think have a complete head with 3 cylinders would be better than a cut one. :)

[joenintiesc]

Thanks for answering! :D ;) :p

[XR7 Dave]

Joe, in your case, application would be iffy at best.

[Jimmy 2Coupes]

I'd be interested in a set also. Maybe two set's :D

[flynbrd]

:p

I spoke with scott at MPG, he's willing to give it a try when a head arrives to his shop. If someone can send out a head to him I'll pay 15$ of the shipping! (would pay more but my bird needs work)
here's the address
MPG Head Service
3881 S Jason St.
Englewood, CO 80110
Ph: 303-762-8196

please call scott to let him know your shipping the head out.

Thanks for the help

[chorizon]

man i wish i had an extra head laying around so we can get this road on the show.......hehehe......... :D

[XR7Kurt]

Add me to the list of customers. For anyone who still might not be able to picture what these look like, just imagine an exhaust manifold gasket made out of metal and a tongue or tab sticking out of the bottom of each port hole, into the head.
Just curious, I also had these on a Cleveland, but they also made them for the intake side since the intake ports were apparently not shaped right also. Are there any problems on our heads that these could help?
Also, the plates I used on my Cleveland seemed like the didn't fit real well. The tabs seemed to be bent down into the head too far and were pushing the plates up. I resisted the urge to bend the tabs up and I just struggled and did get them in. Does anyone know if this was a proper fit?

[Scott Long]

I just did some mild porting to gasket match my exhaust ports on my heads and then polished them up smoot. I would think these would still work on my set of heads right?

Any new news? Has someone sent a head in?

[cougarsc]

I think Steve , BlackbirdSC has a full head to send in. I've got 2/3 of a head that I cut up, with 2 of 3 exhaust ports still functional and stock.

[Toms-SC]

this topic should be pinned up at the top of the forum

[BlackbirdSC]

:p

I spoke with scott at MPG, he's willing to give it a try when a head arrives to his shop. If someone can send out a head to him I'll pay 15$ of the shipping! (would pay more but my bird needs work)
here's the address
MPG Head Service
3881 S Jason St.
Englewood, CO 80110
Ph: 303-762-8196

please call scott to let him know your shipping the head out.

Thanks for the help

Sorry.. didn't check in yesterday.

I'll wrap up the head I have and get it out on Monday. I'll give Scott a call on Monday to make sure no one else has already sent one.

Steve

[bad cat]

i too am intrested

would it be possible to go in on a group purchase

[flynbrd]

Thanks steve!!
Let me know where I can check for shipping to. Send me a Pm when you have time

I'll wrap up the head I have and get it out on Monday. I'll give Scott a call on Monday to make sure no one else has already sent one.

Steve[/QUOTE]

[cudaz101]

I'm in for a few sets...

No Brainer

Brad

[a23turbo]

count me in..where do I send the money..

[Scott Long]

what the heck is going on with this. Did someone send them a head? I was thinking about these the other day and decided to search for this thread and bring it back.

[Conan56]

About a weeke ago I was wondering same thing What ever happened to this project

[89_Red_Xr7]

yeah,
I would like to know whats going on with these and when/if they will be available...........
Andrew

[v8killr]

Ditto.....Did anyone try to call the number that was posted to the shop to make sure he recieved a head?

[cudaz101]

I would be in for a few sets of these as well as I had stated above...

BTW..I have an extra set of heads sittin around. If they are still waiting for a head I will send one out asap...

I am busy as a cat burryin' chit right now though...So if anyone wants to take the time to contact them I will send a head off to them so they can get busy...


Brad

[TBIRD1]

I Would Take A Pair If The Price Is Right

[Scott Long]

So what happened to the guy that started this thread? Did he piss off the mafia and end up like jimmy hoffa or what. Talk about dropping off the face of the earth. I would like to know whats going on with this. Maybe if I have time tomorrow I'll call this place.

[Thrty5thSC]

i'll buy them. i got my motor all out right know doing a ton of mods. i'll keep checking in. i too have a head i can send. the valve seats are ground down to almost nothing and the guides are loose. it looks brand new though.
joe

[v8killr]

Ok people.I'm going to give scott a call tomorrow from work and see what's
going on.I'll see if someone has sent him a head(s),and if he can still do them.If someone has already done this speak up so i'm not bugging the **** out of him.I'll check this thread in the morning and see if anyone has posted,if not i'll call and let you guys know what's going on when i get off work.
Dave

[scfix92]

count me in I will buy them

[Scott Long]

V8Killr, whats the good word?

[lube70]

I would seriously be interested in a set for my 95 SC since I never did head work.


Anyone with info, please post it up here.


Thanks,

Don

[v8killr]

Ok guys and girls i called scott today and some guy said he wasn't there and would be back on monday.I ask him about the port plate job and he didn't know anything about it.Now that don't mean the job is scraped,just that guy might not know anything about it.

Now i called a guy here in Nashville at a place called (Head Works Of Nashville) and told him about our problem.He said he has never herd of port plates before but he was very interested in seeing if he could make these.They do alot of custom work on aluminum heads and have two fabracation locations one here and one in virginia.I sort of explained the way they work but i don't know how to explain it to where someone could make a set.If i could explain it to him i really think we could be in business depending on price and availabilty.I told him we have a ton of people wanting a set of these and that seemed to really interest him so who knows.I told him to ask around his shop to see if anyone there may have herd about these and he said he would.
Someone tell me how to explain this to someone like you would to have someone make these,i want to help everyone out including myself...lol.Or we could just wait untill monday and see if we have anything going with this scott guy.LMN
Dave

[Ira R.]

Sorry.. didn't check in yesterday.

I'll wrap up the head I have and get it out on Monday. I'll give Scott a call on Monday to make sure no one else has already sent one.

Steve

Has anyone tried to reach out to Blackbird to see if he sent the heads?? Does anyone know him and can contact him?

Ira R..

[tbird88]

Ok guys and girls i called scott today and some guy said he wasn't there and would be back on monday.I ask him about the port plate job and he didn't know anything about it.Now that don't mean the job is scraped,just that guy might not know anything about it.

Now i called a guy here in Nashville at a place called (Head Works Of Nashville) and told him about our problem.He said he has never herd of port plates before but he was very interested in seeing if he could make these.They do alot of custom work on aluminum heads and have two fabracation locations one here and one in virginia.I sort of explained the way they work but i don't know how to explain it to where someone could make a set.If i could explain it to him i really think we could be in business depending on price and availabilty.I told him we have a ton of people wanting a set of these and that seemed to really interest him so who knows.I told him to ask around his shop to see if anyone there may have herd about these and he said he would.
Someone tell me how to explain this to someone like you would to have someone make these,i want to help everyone out including myself...lol.Or we could just wait untill monday and see if we have anything going with this scott guy.LMN
DaveNo offense meant but I think I'd visit a few more shops, especially dirt track engine builders.

'bird

[v8killr]

There aren't a whole lot of places around here or i would call around.What i don't get,if these are such an improvement on our cars(i'm not saying they aren't) why are hasn't anyone had these fabed up yet?I would think could someone could make these for us.I have never herd of them either even though i haven't been on here as long as most of you.If everyone called around there area to find someone we might get r done.
I will call this guy again tomorrow though..
dave

[takotruckin]

i guess ford actually used these things as OE on boss mustangs. id really like a set if the price isnt too high.

[cudaz101]

No offense meant but I think I'd visit a few more shops, especially dirt track engine builders.

'bird


Wynne,
Maybe you can get something going???

Not that you don't have enough on your plate...But maybe you can source a shop for the job...???


Brad

[tbird88]

Wynne,
Maybe you can get something going???

Not that you don't have enough on your plate...But maybe you can source a shop for the job...???

BradThree diff mts & one raised top to go and then...heck, at this rate, Carla never get to Pheonix or Vegas to smoke the Silver Bullett ;)

What about the end of the tongue fitting flush in the floor closest to the valve? Hate to have any turbulence, maybe fudge slightly on how close the tongue gets? Gonna hafta cut the rest of that head up and see how good of a job Ford did casting these heads as far as keepin' the ports uniform.

How about where the roof hits the manifold at about 10-15 degrees difference?

'bird

[cudaz101]

Wynne,
I will take that as a SPARK of interest then??? Sounds like you are caught up for the most part...So...GET BUSY MISTER... ;)


Brad

[Randy N Connie]

I would have to agree with Bird88 .The SC heads that I have seen are not uniform in casting shape and size.I do not believe the this part can be made
to match all of the different port shapes.I do do believe that this part would match the short side radius.I have seen as much as .125+ difference in the port floor height.Width seems to be uniform.I base my thought on three pairs of heads I have.I run stock heads so I picked the best heads to run on my SC.The head that did not have the best ports,I welded up for my new motor.
The thrird set I just use as a jig to mod & raise my manifolds.

This is just a bandaid,and I am being nice giving the part this much credit.

You all need to apply a little more commin sence.There is a reason that you are having problems getting this part together.

Just do the job right, and weld the ports.

RANDY

[v8killr]

And he said that he hasn't been sent a head to try to make these.He said he tried to call the person that started all this(sorry forgot his name)and he said that he would have to go buy a used head and when he did he would send it to him.Well all this time has passed and he gave up on it because he never got back it touch with him.I then started to talk with him about doing the job and about this site and all these people that want them.
He seems to think they can be made,he said they have been making them for some time now and they made a set back in the 80's for a 4cy that went into a pinto.He said he would give try to make them for us we just need to send him a (1) head.He said he would prefer if had the valves and stock equipment on it but it don't matter if it's warped or not it don't have to be a perfect head.

So if someone out there has a extra junk head they could part with and can swing the shipping to him please ship it to him and i will let him know it's on the way.I really didn't want to get this involved with this since i don't know him and really don't know anything about this part but i will try to take it from here if someone can send him the head.He said this is the best time to send it because they are starting to slow down and he'll have more time to mess with all the forms he would have to make.I don't know how long this would take or a price because i didn't get that deep into it with him but i'm thinking around $150.00 bucks because that's a price he through out there.

He ask how many people would be interested and told him how many people responded to this thread and it got his attention,so i don't think he will blow this job off as alot of the other vendors do , he seemed like a pretty nice guy.
LMK if someone plans on sending this head to him i told him i would call him tomorrow with a answer.
Dave

[tbird88]

Tip: Budweiser/Old Milwaukee cans not recommended, both leave a nasty aftertaste.

'bird

http://members.tccoa.com/tbird88/tech/hds8496.jpg
http://members.tccoa.com/tbird88/tech/hds8506.jpg

[Birdman93]

Seems to me that those Port Plates would actually limit the flow, not enhance it. They decrease the size of the port, and intro some areas that would create some turbulence.

JMHO

[Conan56]

I bet you do more R&D Then any other SCCOA member

Everytime Ive seen someone talking about making something
you are right there trying it out


Its good to have people like that in the clubs

I know Idont have the creativity or knowlege

[Mike8675309]

Seems to me that those Port Plates would actually limit the flow, not enhance it. They decrease the size of the port, and intro some areas that would create some turbulence.



The characteristics of an exhaust port that increases potential power rather than decreases it are complex. Through other's trial and error it has become evident that the stock SC block has an exhaust port that is shaped in a way that hurts performance. Simply opening the port up doesn't help. The port is actually too big already. The issue is the shape of the port. The only current way to correct the shape is to add additional material through welding.

What is being proposed here are plates that can be added to the exhaust chamber that restructure the flow within the chamber to one that is more benificial. In general the theory is sound. But until someone tries it, no one will know for sure.

[Birdman93]

So ask Morana or Miller about Port Plates. From what that pic showed you'll drop performance installing a plate-better off spending the money to have the heads ported and polished correctly.

[ruswin]

HELLO!!! was this just vaporware or is it getting done? I want them if they can be bolted onto my stock exhaust manifolds...

echo ... echo... echo... anybody out there?

[MIKE 38sc]

Jeeez.....I could have built 1,000 sets of these by now. How many people really want these? Good lord we used to build them back in the early 70's for Cleveland motors.

[cudaz101]

Yes...2 sets over here...


Brad

[products]

If it ends up that your current source decides not to make these let me know. I think I am interested in possibly making these. I would have to take a closer look and I do not want to disrupt anything you have in motion but if it goes nowhere with your current effort just let me know.


Mike

[ruswin]

Maybe I personally am missing out on a golden opportunity here. I own a company that manufactures various items in China. Castings and other metal related parts are literally 1/3 to 1/2 to price of an equivelent part here in the USA. The volume does not have to be high either because of the lower tooling costs. Should I get involved with this or other projects such as intakes and custom castings? I can see making larger IC tubes and things like that as being easy and since I am already importing, I just need to know what pieces SC owners can benefit from.
Anyone interested?

[pablon2]

It may be a long row to hoe if you are trying to sell parts made in China here.

Just my .02


Maybe I personally am missing out on a golden opportunity here. I own a company that manufactures various items in China. Castings and other metal related parts are literally 1/3 to 1/2 to price of an equivelent part here in the USA. The volume does not have to be high either because of the lower tooling costs. Should I get involved with this or other projects such as intakes and custom castings? I can see making larger IC tubes and things like that as being easy and since I am already importing, I just need to know what pieces SC owners can benefit from.
Anyone interested?

[ruswin]

Yeah I used to think that way until I traveled over there, met the people and saw that just about every succesful American company has transferred at least a part of their manufacturing over there. It is a global market these days and I dare you to find a DVD player or cell phone that is not made in the far east.
I do respect your opinion though... thanks. ;)

[MIKE 38sc]

If it ends up that your current source decides not to make these let me know. I think I am interested in possibly making these. I would have to take a closer look and I do not want to disrupt anything you have in motion but if it goes nowhere with your current effort just let me know.


Mike

Mike have at it as far as I'm concerned. I have enough to do as it is. I only half azzed offered because it seems people really want these.

[MIKE 38sc]

Maybe I personally am missing out on a golden opportunity here. I own a company that manufactures various items in China. Castings and other metal related parts are literally 1/3 to 1/2 to price of an equivelent part here in the USA. The volume does not have to be high either because of the lower tooling costs. Should I get involved with this or other projects such as intakes and custom castings? I can see making larger IC tubes and things like that as being easy and since I am already importing, I just need to know what pieces SC owners can benefit from.
Anyone interested?

Russ my man you and I just might talk. I'm under no false illusions and have seen the light myself. I have no problem if the part is made in Timbuck two or not and the truth is neither does the rest of the world or our own country.
I'll contact you later when I have more time to get into this. :)

[tim]

I see a big market for you if you can get the engineering done. Everything we buy for these cars cost a fortune because its limited production. You name it we could use it as long as the quality is good. I know one company we haul that has completly shust down there U.S. plastics parts production and ships it all in from China.

[seawalkersee]

This is REALLY starting to piss me off. I have been on the other port plate forum several times. This is the first time I had read this one and now I am at the EXACT SAME place with NO fargin plates. Mike do you need me to send you some good faith money to make me one set of these things. I will pay the first one fifty as long as if there is a major problem discovered down the road I can get a discount on the fix.

Chris

Nothing personal against you other guys but if you look arround the site mike has his products in a lot of other peoples cars and this year he will have one cooling mine.