Toggle Switches??? Fan Amperage?

BlackSC

Registered User
This topic might have come up before but my searches aren't finding much on it.

I was wondering where people have found reliable two/three position toggle switches? I've checked Summit, eBay, local stores, etc. I also searched on Google and Yahoo and found plenty of little stores selling these things but nothing that I could be sure of the quality of. I ended up buying a cheap two position switch and the thing heats up so much that I don't want to actually mount it in a panel for fear of melting plastic. And it's rated at 10A.

What I'm trying to do (currently) with the switches is mount a switch panel in the ashtray location of three switches - low speed rad fan, high speed rad fan, and ic fan. This is a 93 SC. Anybody know if any of these fans should be drawing more than 10A? I don't want to hook up a non-fused multimeter (like the one I own) and melt a circuit because the fan is really sucking a lot more amperage. I can't see how it's really taking that much though.

Anybody know where I can get better quality switches? Or had experience with a few different brands and know which ones don't heat up so badly?

Brian
 
I just have crappy ones from where I work and they work fine for ic fan, trans cooler fan, high speed fan, low speed fan, amp, firm ride, underbody neons, and fog lights.

not to mention an additional switch panel in the trunk that controls actuators and neon lights.

all of these run off their own $3 switch and no problems yet
 
Are you trying to control the OEM fan or an aftermarket? Are you trying to bypass the IRCM and use the switch to turn the fan on directly?

FWIW, any fan that's going to move enough air is going to pull well in excess of 10 amps continuous and probably over 40 to start. So you really need to have your switch control a relay which in turn switches the fan on.
 
What To Do ???????????????

Parker Dean said:
Are you trying to control the OEM fan or an aftermarket? Are you trying to bypass the IRCM and use the switch to turn the fan on directly?

FWIW, any fan that's going to move enough air is going to pull well in excess of 10 amps continuous and probably over 40 to start. So you really need to have your switch control a relay which in turn switches the fan on.
:eek: :eek: I USE H/D TYPES WORK FINE FOR ME :D :D
 
Makes sense...

That relay sounds like the best idea - I suppose that's how Ford did it in the first place, and it would alleviate the need for drawing large amounts of current through ten or fifteen feet of wire. I've been driving this thing a little more and I can't keep it on more than three minutes because of how hot the switch gets.

The heavy duty ones I've seen are 20A. Might handle it but they're too big to mount underneath the ashtray cover like I want to.

Are you trying to control the OEM fan or an aftermarket? Are you trying to bypass the IRCM and use the switch to turn the fan on directly? - Well the 2 speed rad fan is OEM (actually a replacement Balkamp motor but both Ford and Balkamp are Siemens so it should be the same thing). The IC fan is aftermarket, not installed just yet but I want to route the wiring identically. I'm leaving the IRCM in right now and wiring the control in parallel so that the car can control the fans as well. But if the manual setup works better I will probably rip out the computer control, or at least cap and stow it.

This is really the last step in a complete overhaul of my cooling system. Every single piece (rad, hoses, sensors, fan motor, air dam, etc...) has been replaced and now I'm just experiencing problems with the low speed fan not turning on. This car runs really cold except when 30 mph or under on a hot day, because the fan will not turn on in time. Hence the manual control.

Probably what this will lead me too is the switch/relay manual control and a thermocouple/relay automatic control like the one D. Neibert has posted on here before. But we'll see.

Any ideas as to relays? Napa has good enough ones? Every other time I've needed one I just go to the junkyard and rip out a few from wrecks.

FWIW, any fan that's going to move enough air is going to pull well in excess of 10 amps continuous and probably over 40 to start. So you really need to have your switch control a relay which in turn switches the fan on. - 10A continuous? 120W then? Seems kind of high, don't it? Or is that pretty standard? I know the starting current is probably going to be good sized but that should pass through in milliseconds.

Brian
 
I know that there are fans that can draw upto 100A on startup. Thats the problem your going to have with such a little switch.
I ran an 12g wire for my mother in laws 4.6 Bird for her fan and it melted the wire trying to run it constant. Dont know it it made a different that the fan motor turned out to be bad, but I know that the wire was charred prety good.
 
Ok the reason I was asking about the IRCM is that you can use your switches to control that which in turn will control the fan. Keeping the IRCM makes this a lot easier.

The IRCM is controlled by the EEC so all you need to do is add your switches between the EEC and the IRCM. The Low speed wire is pin 14 (IIRC) on the IRCM connector, I don't know which one on the EEC connector, I was going to find that out, or ask here soon. Anyway, by cutting that wire the Low fan will come on at all times the ignition is on, so if you want to use a switch all you need to do is put a simple switch in that wire to interrupt the circuit and the fan comes on. No significant amperage load for the switch. You could even do this inside the car by splicing in close to the EEC and not have to run wires through the firewall, you just need to find out which wire to splice in.

For high speed operation (not that you should need to use it) you have to ground a wire, which I no longer recall exactly. This is even simpler in that all you need is just splice in with one of those connectors that clip over the wire and pierce the insulation and go from that to a switch that connects to ground. Just keep in mind that the fan needs to be at speed for Low first and then the High can be switched on and that the Low and High circuits cannot be operating at the same time. Starting on High or operating both simultaneously gets you a burned up fan motor.

Fan control pin positions and wire colors have been discussed quite a bit hereabouts so a Search should turn up the required info.
 
I used a lighted toggle switch for my engine fan. That way I remember to shut it off after I turn the key off. It worked well. I bought it from a local parts store, about a $7 switch. Nice deep blue color....looked cool.
Tom
 
Well I can say that I've never had a problem remembering to turn off my engine fan - usually I get out of the car and the heat is just washing out from under the front tires.

Ok the reason I was asking about the IRCM is that you can use your switches to control that which in turn will control the fan. Keeping the IRCM makes this a lot easier. - Well, that sounds like a good idea. But I already found an easy way to route through the firewall (Electrical wires run through just below the MAP sensor). And if I install my own control I'd much rather install everything myself, as opposed to wiring into the IRCM, just for the sake of having a complete system, with no extra relays or wires (half of the IRCM would just be deadweight at that point).

As to the low and high speed wires - I realize they need to be sequential because of the high starting torque produced by the high speed. Probably true that I don't need it - the low speed works for the times that I have problems (low MPH). May not even wire it in...but will definitely provide manual control for the IC fan.

Anybody have a wiring diagram for the EEC?

Brian
 
Hi Current Switch

Call Digikey at 800-344-4539 and order part number '360-1235-ND'.
its a 30 amp AMERICAN MADE high capacity switch, it'll handle those pesky
current surges when you turn that fan on. In fact, wire the poles in parallel
and you'll increase the current switching ability. In other words a 30amp dpdt
(double pole, double throw) wired in parallel will give you 60 amp current switching ability. Gotta warn you though, these switches ain't cheap,around
$25 US, and pay close attention to the physical dimensions and plan accordingly. Oh yeah, relays work great, but sometimes it FEELS GOOD to
throw the switch on a good piece of american engineering. CLICK!
Bill
 
BlackSC said:
Well I can say that I've never had a problem remembering to turn off my engine fan - usually I get out of the car and the heat is just washing out from under the front tires.

Ok the reason I was asking about the IRCM is that you can use your switches to control that which in turn will control the fan. Keeping the IRCM makes this a lot easier. - Well, that sounds like a good idea. But I already found an easy way to route through the firewall (Electrical wires run through just below the MAP sensor). And if I install my own control I'd much rather install everything myself, as opposed to wiring into the IRCM, just for the sake of having a complete system, with no extra relays or wires (half of the IRCM would just be deadweight at that point).

As to the low and high speed wires - I realize they need to be sequential because of the high starting torque produced by the high speed. Probably true that I don't need it - the low speed works for the times that I have problems (low MPH). May not even wire it in...but will definitely provide manual control for the IC fan.

Anybody have a wiring diagram for the EEC?

Brian

Why reinvent the wheel? You have been given some good advice on here from others about using the IRCM to control the fan(s) and I would also suggest you use it. Either way you do this, you will have to run wires through the firewall if you want manual control from a switch. Wire the switch like most factory switches are wired: a low current grounding switch that triggers a relay to turn the fan on. All you need to do is run a single 18 gauge wire per switch you use through the firewall. The other side of the switch (2 pin) would go to ground. You should also incorporate a thermal adjustable t-stat on the radiator to turn on automatically at your specified temperature. That way you will have three points of protection for your cooling system: the auto t-stat, the ECU control is still functional, and the manual override switch just incase.

Also judging from your first post about the switch getting hot, it sounds like you didn’t fuse it (Very bad idea) because if you did it most likely would have blown having it wired directly that way. The pusher fan on a my 94’ takes a 30A fuse alone. The main fan takes a 60A. I would never use a switch regardless of how much current it is capable of handling to DIRECTLY drive ANY high current load. That is why relays were invented.

Lastly, there is TONS of information available on here about this subject. Try doing a search for “fan switch wiring”. I got 67 results. Or just get a chip burned for your t-stat temp and call it a day :) Good luck.
 
Why reinvent the wheel? You have been given some good advice on here from others about using the IRCM to control the fan(s) and I would also suggest you use it. Suggestion received...

Either way you do this, you will have to run wires through the firewall if you want manual control from a switch. - Right, and I have no problem doing this...

Wire the switch like most factory switches are wired: a low current grounding switch that triggers a relay to turn the fan on. All you need to do is run a single 18 gauge wire per switch you use through the firewall. The other side of the switch (2 pin) would go to ground. - This is probably the advice I will take - relay control sounds best. I think the relay is the way to go...just not sure I want to keep the IRCM, would rather have my own components than a few relays that are controlled both by my switch and the EEC.

You should also incorporate a thermal adjustable t-stat on the radiator to turn on automatically at your specified temperature. That way you will have three points of protection for your cooling system: the auto t-stat, the ECU control is still functional, and the manual override switch just incase. - Exactly what I am planning on doing, sans the ECU. Just wondered about the EEC diagram since others are looking at controlling it that way.

For auto control, was looking at the tstat wiring diagram that's been floating around on the forums - see above post (or search for the diagram, I don't happen to have it already saved on this computer or I would post it). Now, though, I'm considering using Summit's FLX-31147 adjustable sensor - anybody used this?


Also judging from your first post about the switch getting hot, it sounds like you didn’t fuse it (Very bad idea) because if you did it most likely would have blown having it wired directly that way. The pusher fan on a my 94’ takes a 30A fuse alone. The main fan takes a 60A. I would never use a switch regardless of how much current it is capable of handling to DIRECTLY drive ANY high current load. That is why relays were invented. - It wasn't fused at the very first but now runs a 30A fuse (just the low speed line).

Lastly, there is TONS of information available on here about this subject. Try doing a search for “fan switch wiring”. I got 67 results. Or just get a chip burned for your t-stat temp and call it a day :) Good luck. - Sure, I've been sifting myself. I try not to post unless there's something that isn't listed. So tell me which one of those 67 tells me about my question: who makes a decent switch for my application? Who has had experience with different switches, which ones were better? Relays, and relay quality? Believe me, I've had many more questions about my car than the hundred-odd posts I've done would indicate. Mostly I find it by data sifting.

The four pole is something I had only seen in passing before now. It's a decent idea except that the relay control will allow for a shorter length of wire, less voltage drop in the feeder line to the motor, and more delivered power. I've been checking out Digikey's online catalog though and it's pretty impressive, I may end up ordering some other components out of there (LEDs!). Thanks for the link.

Brian




BTW, Cletus (true name, I assume?), sorry for the long post. It looks like a pissing match, it's not meant to be. But if you have any specific info on switches or relays I'd love to hear it. I've basically decided on the relay setup already. Thanks for the confirmation of some of those ideas though, I don't have too much experience to draw on here.
 
Info

Hi Brian,
Just wanted you to know that my post was a direct response to your
question:

Anybody know where I can get better quality switches? Or had experience with a few different brands and know which ones don't heat up so badly?

I hope this information was helpful, "digikey" is a great resource for switches
and relays!

Bill
 
Switch from radio shack, about $1 or so.

1.JPG


Adjustable t-stat from Schucks = $17
Bosch 30A Relay = free

2.JPG


Pic of the sensor from the t-stat on the radiator

3.JPG


Close-up of the t-stat and single relay

4.JPG


Simple and effective :)
 
Pictures!!!

Alright, now we're getting to something! That sensor just mounts to the metal? (or is that a plastic-tank rad?) I thought it would require a drilled hole and actual fluid contact? :confused:

Digikey=great resource for all electronic components - I'm ordering leds and possibly the switches tomorrow. Possibly relays too although I've got some junkyard ones hanging around so if they'll work I'll use them. Thanks for the link Bill, it's what I was looking for.

Brian
 
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Hey bigcletus94, how did u make that panel where u mounted the switch? How did u attach it to the bottom of the console?
 
Here is another switch panel I made after the first one.

switch1.jpg


I just traced the ash tray and then cut it out of ABS plastic. I used steel wool on the smooth side of the plastic to get a good texture. I used black hot glue to mount the panel in securely. Since this pic, I have redone this area for a third time to house a power mirror switch out of a fox body mustang and a single toggle switch (for the fan). I relocated the power mirror switch there because I installed a tweeter in the area where the power mirror switch was originally. I used the fox mustang mirror switch because it is low-profile and fits perfectly in that area and the door can still close. I also made little tweeter grills for each door. Looks like it came that way from the factory :) If you would like to see any more pics of anything, just let me know.
 
I'd like to echo a few points made above:

Always run your load through a relay. Never a switch, unless it's a negligible load.

For heavy loads, keep the relay close to keep the length of wire powering the load to a minimum.

Always fuse any new circuits.

Digikey has great stuff.

And add - Radio Shack makes a nice 30a relay
 
On my '94 I did two things. I re-powered the fan using a fusible link (as used on '89-93 models), because when the original fan motor burnt-up it also totally fried the 2 fuse sections in the under hood fuse box. Secondly I put a switch in line with the #14 low speed IRCM relay wire, so in the summer I could run it full time (works well, especially once you get on the highway). However to avoid having the low speed fan energized should the high speed kick in I spliced a wire across to the #17 wire. This way when the #17 grounded to activate the high speed fan it would automatically shut off the low speed.Simple and seems to work quite well. I was thinking of using a double pole switch to control both fan speeds, but just being able to run the low speed on the highway (in the summer, with the a/c on)) or sitting in traffic (in the winter) seems to stabilize the temperature.
 
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