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blksc
06-09-2004, 09:01 AM
What happens to NOS when its compressed ? like if a nozzle is located before or after the throttle body ?

Drnaline
06-09-2004, 09:31 AM
I would think it would flow better under vacuum. But I think it's more subject to bottle pressure.

blksc
06-09-2004, 09:37 AM
i asked because i am unsure of the optimal location for the nozzle. I want to utilize the cooling effect NOS has as much as possible. At first i thought about placing the nozzle directly after air exits the intercooler that way it would not be subject to the heating from the blower. Im looking to HUGE amounts of NOS in this thing.

Intercooler = Four nozzles that chill the intercooler body itself, and a seperate nozzle to inject NOS into the intake stream.

Dont worry already studded the head and the mains on my block :-)

fastsc92
06-09-2004, 10:58 AM
you do not want to place it before the blower. I would put it in the return plenum right behind the blower, where it enters the lower manifold. This is where i placed mine. When you spray nitrous, its acutally a liquid, and it evaporates instantly. It exits the nozzle at something like -130*. You want to give the coolest most dense charge entering the engine, and the return plenum is a great spot. Here is a pic of where i put mine, you can see it in the back.

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/433000-433999/433758_39_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/433000-433999/433758_38_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/433000-433999/433758_36_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/433000-433999/433758_42_full.jpg

blksc
06-09-2004, 11:16 AM
Loving the setup, how much are you squeezing ?

fastsc92
06-09-2004, 05:39 PM
only 65 for now...just for tuning issues. I'm running crazy lean up top. I'm waiting for my wideband o2 kit to come in, then i can start playing with files and fuel curves. I should see about 320 at the wheels. Right now i'm getting 422ftlb, but the hp just isn't there yet. Its starving up top for fuel.

blksc
06-09-2004, 05:48 PM
Thats a great amount of torque. How important do you think tuner files are ?

fastsc92
06-09-2004, 06:21 PM
they are 100% important. Once you start modding...you need to some sort of tuner or chip. I'm just getting into eec tuning and you can control a lot. I've seen people gain 30hp with just a tune. I expect more just because i will be able to utilize fuel and spark advance at the track while using nitrous.

blksc
06-09-2004, 06:28 PM
Very awesome. i didnt really buy into because tuning the eec sounds like a very complicated matter unless it was wizard driven. Can you send me a example file ? is it readable by a text editor ?

fastsc92
06-09-2004, 08:06 PM
ya here is a copy of the stock program on a M2Y family computer. Your eec might be a little different.


M2Y

CHECKSUM_BASE_ADDRESS 8192 # Set to 0 to clear Error code 15
WOT_VOLTAGE 2.44144 # WOT TPS breakpoint (TP_REL V)
MAX_SPARK_RETARD -8 # Max degrees of spark retard for knock sensor

WOT_ADVANCE_VS_RPM # WOT spark Advance vs RPM
( 16383.8, 26 ) ( 5000, 26 ) ( 4000, 24 )
( 3000, 20 ) ( 2500, 17 ) ( 1500, 10 )
( 0, 8 ) ( 0, 8 )


WOT_ADVANCE_VS_ECT # WOT spark adder based on Coolant Temp.
( 254, -4 ) ( 230, -4 ) ( 216, 0 )
( 150, 0 ) ( 100, 4 ) ( -256, 4 )
( -256, 4 )


WOT_ADVANCE_VS_ACT # WOT spark adder based on intercooler outlet Temp.
( 254, -3 ) ( 240, -3 ) ( 150, -4 )
( 120, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 )
( -256, 0 )


SPARK_MULTIPLIER_VS_BP # Spark Multiplier Based on BP. ("Hg, Multiplier)
( 31.875, 1 ) ( 27.75, 1 ) ( 26.5, 0 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


WOT_ADVANCE_VS_BP # WOT spark adder based on BP. ("Hg, Deg. spark)
( 31.875, 0 ) ( 27.75, 0 ) ( 26.5, 8 )
( 23.5, 8 ) ( 0, 24 )


ADVANCE_RATE_VS_RPM #
( 8160, 0.5 ) ( 1600, 0.5 ) ( 800, 0.75 )
( 0, 0.75 ) ( 0, 0.75 ) ( 0, 0.75 )


TORQUE_TRUNCATION_TABLE # Torque truncation table. (Degs)
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


BASE_SPARK_TABLE # Lugging Spark Table (Deg BTDC)(Load vs RPM)
30 30 32 34 35 35 36 38 42 42
30 30 32 34 35 35 36 38 42 42
28 30 32 33 34 34 35 37 42 42
22 26 30 30 34 34 34 36 37 37
15 17 23 26.5 27 28 28 31 31 31
12 14 20 22 22 24 26 28 28 28
12 13 15 17.5 20.5 21 23 26 26 26
9 10 12 14 15 16 16 24 26 26


SEALEVEL_LOM_SPARK_TABLE # Sea Level Base Spark Table (Deg BTDC)(Load vs RPM)
30 30 32 34 35 35 36 38 42 42
30 30 32 34 35 35 36 38 42 42
28 30 32 33 34 34 35 37 42 42
22 26 30 30 34 34 34 36 37 37
15 17 23 26.5 27 28 28 31 31 31
12 14 20 22 22 24 26 28 28 28
12 13 15 17.5 20.5 21 23 26 26 26
9 10 12 14 15 16 16 24 26 26


ALTITUDE_LOM_SPARK_TABLE # Altitude Base Spark Table (Deg BTDC)(Load vs RPM)
30 30 32 34 35 35 36 38 42 42
30 30 32 34 35 35 36 38 42 42
28 30 32 33 34 34 35 37 42 42
22 26 30 30 34 34 34 36 37 37
15 17 23 26.5 27 28 28 31 31 31
12 14 20 22 22 24 26 28 28 28
12 13 15 17.5 20.5 21 23 26 26 26
9 10 12 14 15 16 16 24 26 26


SPARK_TABLE_RPM_SCALING # Spark table x axis scaling.(RPM, Cell)
( 16383.8, 9 ) ( 5000, 9 ) ( 2000, 6 )
( 500, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 )


SPARK_TABLE_LOAD_SCALING # Y axis load scaling(Normalized Load, Cell)
( 1.99997, 7 ) ( 1.04999, 7 ) ( 0.149994, 1 )
( 0.0249939, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 )

ENGINE_DISPLACEMENT 231.728 # Engine Displacement
MAF_VOLTAGE 4.78523 # Max MAF voltage

MAF_FUNCTION # Mass Air Transfer Function
( 15.9998, 992.662 ) ( 4.75, 992.662 ) ( 4.5, 884.619 )
( 4.25, 754.715 ) ( 4, 661.247 ) ( 3.80005, 576.333 )
( 3.6001, 497.44 ) ( 3.3999, 428.052 ) ( 3.19995, 362.783 )
( 3, 310.187 ) ( 2.80005, 262.027 ) ( 2.6001, 218.303 )
( 2.3999, 179.015 ) ( 2.19995, 145.747 ) ( 2, 115.647 )
( 1.80005, 92.5175 ) ( 1.6001, 72.8734 ) ( 1.3999, 56.0808 )
( 1.19995, 41.823 ) ( 1, 29.783 ) ( 0.899902, 24.7136 )
( 0.800049, 20.2778 ) ( 0.600098, 14.2578 ) ( 0.300049, 5.70313 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


ISC_DURING_CRANK # ISC Duty cycle during crank. Keyed off ECT at start. (ECT, Duty Cycle)
( 254, 0.546875 ) ( 180, 0.546875 ) ( 70, 0.703125 )
( 30, 0.992188 ) ( -256, 0.992188 ) ( -256, 0.992188 )


BASE_FUEL_TABLE # Base Fuel Table (A/F ratio)(Load vs ECT)
13.1531 13.4962 13.6106 14.64 15.3262 15.3262 15.3262 14.64 14.64 14.64
12.4669 13.0387 13.6106 14.2969 15.3262 15.3262 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64
12.4669 13.0387 13.2675 13.6106 14.1825 14.1825 14.1825 14.64 14.64 14.64
11.6662 12.4669 12.5812 13.1531 14.0681 14.0681 14.1825 14.64 14.64 14.64
10.98 11.0944 12.3525 12.3525 13.9537 13.9537 13.9537 13.9537 13.9537 13.9537
10.98 10.98 10.98 11.6662 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669
10.98 10.98 10.98 11.6662 11.6662 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669
10.2937 10.98 10.98 11.6662 11.6662 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669 12.4669


STABILIZED_FUEL_TABLE # Stabilized open loop air/fuel ratio.
14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64
14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64
14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64
14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64
14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 12.4669 12.4669
14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 13.6106 11.6662 11.6662
14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 12.4669 10.98 10.98
11.6662 11.6662 11.6662 11.6662 11.6662 11.6662 11.6662 10.98 10.98 10.98


STARTUP_FUEL_TABLE # Startup Fuel Table (A/F ratio)
8.80687 8.34937 8.34937 7.32 5.83312 5.83312 4.34625 2.97375 1.71562 1.71562
6.8625 5.71875 4.575 2.97375 2.17312 2.17312 2.17312 1.71562 1.60125 1.60125
5.0325 2.05875 1.71562 0.915 0.68625 0.68625 1.02937 1.02937 1.14375 1.14375
3.66 1.3725 0.68625 0.343125 0.343125 0.343125 0.4575 0.571875 0.915 0.915
1.71562 0.571875 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.68625 0.68625
1.14375 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.68625 0.68625
0.571875 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.68625 0.68625
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


FUEL_TABLE_LOAD_SCALING # Fuel Y-axis Load scaling(Normalized Load, Cell)
( 1.99997, 8 ) ( 1, 8 ) ( 0.666992, 3 )
( 0.266998, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 1.99997, 10 )


WOT_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_RPM # WOT fuel multiplier. (RPM, Multiplier)
( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )
( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )
( 0, 1 )


SEA_LEVEL_LUGGING_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER # Sea level fuel multiplier. (RPM, Multiplier)
( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 1500, 1 ) ( 1200, 1.20312 )
( 750, 1.20312 ) ( 650, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )
( 0, 1 )


ALTITUDE_LUGGING_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER # Altitude lugging fuel multiplier. (RPM, Multiplier)
( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )
( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )
( 0, 1 )


CRANK_FUEL_PULSEWIDTH_VS_ECT # (ECT temp, PW in Secs.)
( 65534, 0.00280762 ) ( 190, 0.00280762 ) ( 90, 0.00700378 )
( 70, 0.00700378 ) ( 40, 0.00968933 ) ( 0, 0.0195007 )
( -20, 0.0240021 ) ( -65536, 0.0240021 ) ( -65536, 0.0240021 )
( -65536, 0.0240021 ) ( -65536, 0.0240021 )


AF_SCALING_RPM # Fuel table x axis scaling.(RPM, Cell)
( 16383.8, 9 ) ( 5000, 9 ) ( 2000, 6 )
( 500, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


ACCEL_ENRICHMENT_VS_TPS # Accelerator Enrichment Multiplier vs TP voltage
( 4.98047, 0.5 ) ( 2.44141, 0.75 ) ( 0, 1 )
( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )


ACCEL_ENRICHMENT_FUEL_TABLE # Accelerator Enrichment Fuel Table(lb/min)
3 4 8 14 20 23 32 35
3 4 8 14 20 23 32 35
2.5 3 7 10 14 22 28 30
2.5 2.5 3.5 4.5 5 7.5 15 20
1.25 1.5 2 2 3 6 12 17
0.5 0.75 1.5 2 3 6 10 15
0.5 0.75 1.5 2 2 4 7 10


INJECTOR_BREAKPOINT_VS_BATTERY_VOLTAGE # Injector Breakpoint table (Voltage, lbs/rev)
( 4095.94, 4.00149e-05 ) ( 0, 4.00149e-05 ) ( 0, 4.00149e-05 )
( 0, 4.00149e-05 ) ( 0, 4.00149e-05 ) ( 0, 4.00149e-05 )
( 0, 4.00149e-05 ) ( 0, 4.00149e-05 )

LOW_INJECTOR_SLOPE 33.3368 # Injector slope lbs/hr
HIGH_INJECTOR_SLOPE 30.5644 # Injector size lbs/hr

INJECTOR_OFFSET_VS_BATTERY_VOLTAGE # Battery voltage offset for fuel injectors (Volts, msec. offset)
( 15.9375, 0.90625 ) ( 14, 0.90625 ) ( 13, 0.96875 )
( 12, 1.15625 ) ( 11, 1.40625 ) ( 10, 1.5625 )
( 9, 1.875 ) ( 8, 2.375 ) ( 7, 3.21875 )
( 6, 5.0625 ) ( 5.5, 7.5 ) ( 0, 7.5 )

ECT1_HS_FAN_ON 228 # ECT1 to turn on HS cooling Fan (Deg F)
ECT2_HS_FAN_ON 228 # ECT2 to turn on HS cooling Fan (Deg F)
ECT_HS_FAN_OFF 222 # ECT to turn OFF HS cooling Fan (Deg F)
ECT_LS_FAN_OFF 216 # ECT to turn OFF LS cooling Fan (Deg F)
ECT_LS_FAN_ON 220 # ECT to turn ON LS cooling Fan (Deg F)
AC_IDLE_RPM_ADDER 0 # RPM Adder for idle with A/C on
DRIVE_IDLE 600 # Drive Idle RPM
NEUTRAL_IDLE 752 # Neutral Idle RPM

DESIRED_IDLE_AIRFLOW_IN_DRIVE # Desired idle airflow in drive (Kg/Hr)
( 4080, 48.903 ) ( 1008, 48.903 ) ( 800, 29.3418 )
( 608, 19.5612 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


DESIRED_IDLE_AIRFLOW_IN_NEUTRAL # Desired idle airflow in neutral (Kg/Hr)
( 4080, 47.6273 ) ( 2000, 47.6273 ) ( 1248, 29.1292 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


DASHPOT_CLIP1 # ISC1 air at closed throttle. (Kg/Hr)
( 16383.8, 2.72422 ) ( 2200, 2.72422 ) ( 1200, 1.63453 )
( 0, 1.63453 ) ( 0, 1.63453 )


DASHPOT_CLIP2 # ISC2 air at closed throttle. (Kg/Hr)
( 16383.8, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 )


DASHPOT_CLIP3 # ISC3 air at closed throttle. (Kg/Hr)
( 16383.8, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 )


DASHPOT_DECREMENT_RATE # Dashpot decrement step at given flow (Kg/Hr(flow), Kg/Hr(step))
( 435.443, 0.87042 ) ( 10.8836, 0.87042 ) ( 8.166, 0.106311 )
( 2.72422, 0.106311 ) ( 0, 0.0199333 ) ( 0, 0.0199333 )
( 0, 0.0199333 )

PIP 1282 # Minimum PIP period (PIP = 8333333/maxRPM)
SIL_RPM_ON_1 7000 # Shift Indicator Light On 1(RPM)
SIL_RPM_OFF_1 2500 # Shift Indicator Light 1 OFF (RPM)
SIL_RPM_ON_2 4300 # Shift Indicator Light 2 On (RPM)
SIL_RPM_OFF_2 3989.75 # Shift Indicator Light 2 OFF (RPM)
NO_FUEL_RPM 6000 # Enable Stage 2 Rev Limiter(RPM)

EXHAUST_PULSE_DELAY #
10 10 10 10
9 9 7 7
6 6 6 6
5 6 6 6
6 6 6 6
6 6 6 6
6 6 6 6
6 6 6 6


END

fastsc92
06-09-2004, 08:07 PM
as you can see....its very complicated, but once you learn about how the eec functions and what changes to make...its much easier. I'm almost 90% sure what i'm doing with fine tuning fuel and spark curves.

blksc
06-09-2004, 08:28 PM
Wow that looks hella complicated. How does one start to understand all of this ? it would be great if someone wrote a how to on deciphering the eec files.