PDA

View Full Version : Unofficial POWERFUL LIST vote for new rules!



Bill McNeil
06-12-2004, 09:28 PM
Well, somebody had to do it, so here it is. Let's see what people REALLY want, instead of trying to sort through all the BS. I'm curious to see how this turns out, because I think it could go purest, extremist, or somewhere in the middle with relative ease.

Here are the choices as I've seen people break it down:


SC VIN, SC BLOCK, ANYTHING GOES (without nitrous) ALL V6 UNRESTRICTED
SC VIN ONLY (anything else goes) NO NITROUS (on dyno)
SC VIN, SC BLOCK, M90 and versions ONLY (no nitrous or power adders)
SC VIN UNRESTRICTED - NITROUS PERMITTED
SEPERATE LISTS - SEPERATE VOTE TO DETERMINE

plev72
06-12-2004, 11:05 PM
Think people might be a little excited by the Whipple project? ;-) Bet the voting would have been different prior...

pro street rich
06-13-2004, 10:26 AM
All the cars that I have been playing with are S.C. vin's so I guess that whatever comes from this will meen that I can get my dyno #'s posted... Boy did the mark ever get raised now.... Did someone say "Blowen big block"?????????? This could be a really good summer after all. Got to get going and get that new frame under that car......Rich

BlueThunder90
06-13-2004, 01:09 PM
Since this site is about the preservation and the love of Supercoupe's, I think there should be:

SC VIN, SC BLOCK, ROOTS BLOWER (Nitrous Included)

Why the anti-nitrous choices? It's a power adder.

Bill McNeil
06-13-2004, 01:27 PM
SC VIN, SC BLOCK, ROOTS BLOWER (Nitrous Included)
Steve,

This would qualify for the "seperate choice" list.

Once/if we determine seperate lists are necessary, we can vote again.

Keep in mind, this is for DYNO only. This is NOT about the 1/4 mile.

Do you really think you are preserving the SC by using NOS on the dyno? :confused:

Bill McNeil
06-13-2004, 01:28 PM
Bet the voting would have been different prior...
This is exactly why we are voting now, and not in the past.

A major innovation has come about that has changed the performance ability of the car, which was not around when the rules originated.

Hence, we vote to see if change is necessary.

Bill McNeil
06-13-2004, 01:30 PM
All the cars that I have been playing with are S.C. vin's so I guess that whatever comes from this will meen that I can get my dyno #'s posted... Boy did the mark ever get raised now.... Did someone say "Blowen big block"?????????? This could be a really good summer after all. Got to get going and get that new frame under that car......Rich
Rich,

Option #2 would have to win the poll for that to be possible.

Also, George will have to be willing to change the rules based on this vote.

This is only a small step in the right direction. It is possible that this may fail, and nothing may come of it, so don't get too excited just yet. ;)

ThunderRoad
06-13-2004, 02:25 PM
just make the seperate up and vote :mad: :mad:

BlueThunder90
06-13-2004, 09:14 PM
Do you really think you are preserving the SC by using NOS on the dyno?

With all do respect, that is a dumb question. Are you guys who rip your motors apart, use different blowers any different? No! Nitrous is a power adder. Peroid. Horsepower is horsepower. Why does it matter how you obtain the numbers?

I don't think enough people care enough to make George change the rule. That's just my opinion though.

Turbo351
06-13-2004, 09:17 PM
Don't forget that not everyone is honest when it comes to NOS. It is easily hidden from those who really know what they are looking for. If someone chooses to be sneaky about it, there is no way "us" to subject the car to inspection before accepting the numbers. Then there are those who have NOS installed but say they just didn't use it on the dyno. Just food for thought. The list will hold no value if it's too easy to submit false numbers and create an unfair playing field.

Bill McNeil
06-13-2004, 10:54 PM
No! Nitrous is a power adder. Peroid. Horsepower is horsepower. Why does it matter how you obtain the numbers?
Steve,

I respect your position, however, if you are allowing nitrous, why are you restricting it to a roots-type blower then? Excluding whipples is excluding power adders. What about turbos as power adders, extra displacement and more cylinders? They all make more power also. Please inform me if I'm missing the point here.


Don't forget that not everyone is honest when it comes to NOS. It is easily hidden from those who really know what they are looking for. If someone chooses to be sneaky about it, there is no way "us" to subject the car to inspection before accepting the numbers. Then there are those who have NOS installed but say they just didn't use it on the dyno. Just food for thought. The list will hold no value if it's too easy to submit false numbers and create an unfair playing field
You are absolutely right, Wayne. All I can hope is that we are educated enough on what level of performance coincides with what modifications, and we can judge accurately what numbers are truly "skewed", or unexplainable without the use of nitrous.

I personaly don't want to see the dyno turn into a game of "who has the guts to add more nitrous". Or, "my motor blew up on the dyno with a 250 shot, but it made 480 RWHP just before that, so add me to the list!". Part of having such a list is knowing what modifications it took to achieve what level of power. If you add NOS to the equation, how can you tell what is making the power, the combination of performance parts, or how big the nozzle was?

That's the only reason I'm against NOS on the dyno, even though I do intend to run NOS in the future, both on the street and at the track. I will likely see what it does on the dyno just for fun, but I will hardly consider a NOS powered dyno run to be any achievement worth submitting to a ranked list, or worth bragging about.

The TBU dyno list went the NOS route, and unfortunately (although I don't mean to critisize the TBU, since it serves a different purpose) when you read the list, you have no idea what Gary, Dave or Chris ran without NOS, or what the current power level is when not using NOS. For that reason, the list becomes a "I wonder how much NOS it took to get the HP", rather than, "I wonder what modifications he has". I just don't want to see the dyno list become a NOS competition, rather than a true representation of a person's current power level.

At the track, using NOS is part of the racing environment. You are racing against the clock, or competiting with other racers. In that setting, I feel the use of NOS is more acceptable as a racing tool, because it depends when you turn it on, for how long, and during what gears that determines how successful you are. On the dyno, spraying until the chart peaks at a certain number seems kind of silly, unless you are just doing it out of curiousity. I guess what it all comes down to is, I look at the dyno list as a factual representation, rather than a competition. Since 1/4 miles racing combines skill, HP and overall set-up of the car, it is obviously more competitive in nature. The dyno numbers are more a documentation of people's results, that we happpen to rank in order from highest to lowest, which makes it easier to read, and a lot more fun and interesting.

Again, this is only my opinion.

Turbo351
06-13-2004, 11:28 PM
Comparing apples to apples, we don't know how much boost they are running either. They might be running 30 pounds and tons of timing on race fuel with alcohol/methanol or propane injection. That is no different than running NOS in my opinion. Horsepower is horsepower. There are lots of ways to squeeze out more power, it's just how far you are willing to take it.

You are opening a huge can of worms here by saying we can judge the results by reported modifcations. Who is going to judge and make the final decision to reject the entry from the list? There is no way to do this without inspecting the car at the time of the dyno run. Someone can run a 30hp shot and you would never know it by looking at the dyno charts.

I vote V6 SC block-anything goes. If you want to push the V6 to the edge and beyond, more power to ya! It's the big numbers that motivates people to keep these cars and keep pushing the envelope of performance.




[QUOTE=Bill McNeil]Steve,

All I can hope is that we are educated enough on what level of performance coincides with what modifications, and we can judge accurately what numbers are truly "skewed", or unexplainable without the use of nitrous.

I personaly don't want to see the dyno turn into a game of "who has the guts to add more nitrous". Or, "my motor blew up on the dyno with a 250 shot, but it made 480 RWHP just before that, so add me to the list!". Part of having such a list is knowing what modifications it took to achieve what level of power. If you add NOS to the equation, how can you tell what is making the power, the combination of performance parts, or how big the nozzle was?

[QUOTE]

Shockwave
06-14-2004, 03:46 AM
The reason I voted option #3:

I feel once you remove the M90 it's not a SC. What makes a Thinderbird SC a SC and not a regular LX?

Is it springs and ARC shocks? Most of the guys have went with lowering springs and better shocks already.

Is it the Side Bolster seats with lumbar?
Some of the fast guys have went with racing seats?

Is it the ground effects and bumper covers?
I have seen these on a lot of LXs.

Is it the SC V6 3.8 engine?
This is just one of the things we are discussing here.

Is it the Eaton M90 SC?
Again another sticking point.

To me it's all these things wrapped into one with a R in the VIN.

You have to have it all. Does having only the VIN make your car a SC? Would the new Mach 1 registry embrace you with open arms if you bought a salvaged 2003 Mach 1 and dropped in a Whipple powered 4.2 V6 that made 500 rwhp? Do you think they would let you add your name to the top of the list?


If money wasn't an issue I would buy the whipple kit. For that matter, I would like to install a 03 Cobra motor. To me the SC would be the perfect car to have a full 03 Cobra drivetrain in. You have our comfort and style with that lovely drivetrain. Would this be a SC? Not to me, all it shows is what Ford could have done.

It's not that I don't want this cool stufff. It's just that I wouldn't want my car on that list. I would rather have a seperate modified class to be listed under. To me it's too far from Stock in my opinion.

How many of you guys want a 100% street legal tubbed SC with a 9" rear live axle running a Turbo on the top of the list?


Jerry

kuhnga
06-14-2004, 06:08 AM
when you read the list, you have no idea what Gary, Dave or Chris ran without NOS, or what the current power level is when not using N

I dont have NASA by my name biatch. :p


They might be running 30 pounds and tons of timing on race fuel with alcohol/methanol or propane injection. That is no different than running NOS in my opinion. Horsepower is horsepower. There are lots of ways to squeeze out more power, it's just how far you are willing to take it.

Wayne, I see your point, but you still have a limit of what you can go to with the items you listed. With Nitrous there is no limit, just pop a bigger pill. I would think one is nuts just pumping nitrous to get big number on the dyno, but what do I know.

BlueThunder90
06-14-2004, 07:52 AM
Steve,

I respect your position, however, if you are allowing nitrous, why are you restricting it to a roots-type blower then? Excluding whipples is excluding power adders. What about turbos as power adders, extra displacement and more cylinders? They all make more power also. Please inform me if I'm missing the point here.

A SC without a roots blower is no longer a SC IMO.

Once you remove the blower and/or motor, the car is no longer a SC and shouldn't be classifed as one.

Sure, some people play with their motors a lot, but I think as long as you stay with the original 3.8 block and roots type blower, then the car still maintains the original SC look.

Turbo351
06-14-2004, 08:15 AM
Gary, I'm surprised to hear you say that since you have experience using and tuning nitrous. You make it sound like magic.

Simply popping a bigger pill without proper tuning of fuel and timing will end your day in a hurry. The motor has to be properly upgraded to handle the amount of nitrous we're talking about. Nitrous is just like any other type of forced induction. It's just another method of getting air into the cylinders. I'll certainly admit it's a lot easier and cheaper than upgrading your blower and intercooler.

Another consideration is that it is a way for a budget racer to compete with those who can afford the fully built motors and fancy blowers. If you want to build a bottle baby, then more power to ya!

If it's really that simple, put in the 300 pill in your car and prove me wrong. I'd love to see the dyno sheet on that one.

The idea of detuning my car and showing less that it's full potential on the dyno is a foreign concept to me. I'll have to ponder that one for a while....





I dont have NASA by my name biatch. :p

Wayne, I see your point, but you still have a limit of what you can go to with the items you listed. With Nitrous there is no limit, just pop a bigger pill. I would think one is nuts just pumping nitrous to get big number on the dyno, but what do I know.

SilverCasket
06-14-2004, 08:18 AM
but I think as long as you stay with the original 3.8 block and roots type blower, then the car still maintains the original SC look.

If it's about the look. Then the custom IC tubing done for front mounts, or the differences of intake tubes or even Manny's inverted would disqualify it from being an SC. It's a mod to the block. Just allows more air flow. Same as a bigger maf or intake tube. ... Ok, a lot more power, but hey, why else would we do it.

Something to think about,
Anthony

Micahdogg
06-14-2004, 09:02 AM
I didn't vote because I didn't find a suitable catagory. What matters most to me when people push the "SC Performance" envelope is that they use a T-Bird...and a relatively heavy one and that they still use the V6. Even if it's an all aluminum block and now a 4.3L....to me I want to see V6 power. Anything else goes...turbo, whipple, nitrous. And I don't think I want to see a MN12 gutted as much as Mansier Motorsports Bird, but certainly something like Mike Puckett's is acceptable.

So that's it. While I do enjoy seeing V8 swaps too like Wayne's and Dave's....to me it just becomes a whole new animal and the HP limitations start to be lifted somewhat.

Micah

Bill McNeil
06-14-2004, 09:15 AM
Micah,

I agree with you 100%.

Your opinion fits into the "SC VIN - SC BLOCK - ALL V6 UNRESTRICTED (no NOS)" category, doesn't it?

Unless you are advocating for the use of NOS on the dyno?!

We'd like to have you vote no matter what you chose.

Bill McNeil
06-14-2004, 09:20 AM
I dont have NASA by my name biatch.
That's because you JUST changed it, ****!

SeanMatteson
06-14-2004, 09:37 AM
...Even if it's an all aluminum block and now a 4.3L....to me I want to see V6 power. Anything else goes...turbo, whipple, nitrous.

Bill,

I don't think there were ever any stock Al block SC's. Looks to me like Micah is saying any mill will work, so long as it's still a V6. I guess that means we could swap in something like a 4.0L OHC Ford motor with twin turbos. I don't know whether that could be made to work, but it sounds pretty interesting!

...Point is, Micah is advocating something closer to what I suggested than the option that you personally are advocating. ...Just no V8's or 4-cyl's, or V10's. ;)

Cheers,

Sean

P.S. How did we end up with all these comments under this poll??? I think the intent was to use this strictly for voting on the subject, and not for debating it. Perhaps we could move these posts under the other thread that was laid out for this??? I mean here ("Unofficial 'POWERFUL LIST' vote for new rules!") (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47084)! Or perhaps even here ("New 'Most Powerful' List Rules") (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46929)! ...Any moderators handy?!

Bill McNeil
06-14-2004, 09:40 AM
If Micah is suggesting the use of other V6 blocks other than the 3.8 block (boring and stroking acceptable), then he would have to vote for seperate lists to be determined by a seperate vote which would follow. I think there is a choice for everyone within the categories available.

If Micah is suggesting anything you can do to a V6 3.8 UNRESTRICTED, then he should be voting for the first option, along with the current majority.

I'm sure he'll let us know either way.


Bill,

I don't think there were ever any stock Al block SC's. Looks to me like Micah is saying any mill will work, so long as it's still a V6. I guess that means we could swap in something like a 4.0L OHC Ford motor with twin turbos. I don't know whether that could be made to work, but it sounds pretty interesting!

...Point is, Micah is advocating something closer to what I suggested than the option that you personally are advocating. ...Just no V8's or 4-cyl's, or V10's. ;)

Cheers,

Sean

SCgraphics guy
06-14-2004, 09:51 AM
Sorry guys my o2....I think we need to keep a class for the SC in stock looking form, but on the other hand I also think its important to hane an unrestricted (stock block)class , just so we can exploit the power that can be created from the Ford 3.8. ( Stroking, N20, Whipple, Combos,weight reduction, etc... or what ever one wishes as long as its the ford 3.8 block on an SC vin.)
If you go changing the motor then why not just put in a Big block Chevy with an 8-71 on top, go solid axle out back, tub it , make some fiberglass body panels with lexan glass & a huge winig on the Back and go run 8s.
Thats what Michele has been trying to convince me to do with another SC.
Although it would look cool as hell with that blower sticking out of the hood.
It wouldn't really be an SC anymore!
In my opinion that kind of a setup could only be called a Thunderbird. The SC would be long gone as it would kind of be like the Funny cars, they have Stangs,Firebirds & vettes,etc but we all know theres nothing there representing the original car but the look of the body.

Turbo351
06-14-2004, 09:55 AM
I think these four options would be a more accurate representation of the issue at hand.

I believe Micah wanted to see SC VIN, any Ford V6 block, any power adder including nitrous permitted.


1. SC VIN, SC block, M90 variations only, no nitrous
2. SC VIN, SC block, any power adder(s) including nitrous
3. SC VIN, any ford engine, any power adder(s)
4. MN12 chassis, any ford engine, any power adder(s)
5. Multiple lists for one or more of the above categories.
6. I don't care.

[EDIT] Just added #5 and #6.

Bill McNeil
06-14-2004, 09:59 AM
Wayne,

I think that is a good list.

If we don't achieve over 50% voting in one category, we'll have to vote again.

If we vote again, we will have to change the perameters.

Perhaps we will vote again anyway, pending George's interpretation of the results based on the current voting options.

Doug Williams
06-14-2004, 10:17 AM
I voted the first choice. My biggest thing is that the V6 blocked cars are compared together. I don't care which supercharger, or turbo, or if N2O is used, although it would be nice to know what they ran w/o the N20.

Turbo351
06-14-2004, 10:22 AM
I think this vote is skewed due to the poor choice of options. I say we close this one and start a new vote.




I voted the first choice. My biggest thing is that the V6 blocked cars are compared together. I don't care which supercharger, or turbo, or if N2O is used, although it would be nice to know what they ran w/o the N20.

Turbo351
06-14-2004, 10:47 AM
More options:

1. SC VIN, SC block, M90 variations only, no nitrous
2. SC VIN, SC block, any roots blower, no nitrous
3. SC VIN, SC block, any power adder(s), including nitrous
4. SC VIN, any ford engine, any power adder(s)
5. MN12 chassis, any ford engine, any power adder(s)
6. Multiple lists for one or more of the above categories.
7. I don't care.

Bill McNeil
06-14-2004, 10:54 AM
I think this vote is skewed due to the poor choice of options. I say we close this one and start a new vote.
Wayne,

Although I respect your reasons for this opinion, we cannot close a vote mid-way after 40 people have voted, and start over on the whim of one person. Once the voting is completed, George can decide (and Duffy) if the options listed were reasonable in covering the MAIN issues at hand.

Keep in mind, I didn't come up with these options on my own. I took these from the suggestions of others within the original thread, started by Anthony, when he asked that the rules be considered for change. These are the options I derrived from that thread, and they seemed suitable at the time. I see now that other issues and suggestions have been brought to the table, and we can address them when this vote is completed.

To be honest, I'm happy with the first OR last option, but I can only vote once, which I did. I'm hoping we get around 75 people or more voting in total, so we are no where near completion yet. Please be patient and allow this vote to close, and maybe we can "vote" to see if we "vote" again. I'm keeping an open mind here as much as possible.

However complex this is, and however long it takes, we'll get it right eventually. Let's hope our efforts don't go to waste.

kuhnga
06-14-2004, 11:20 AM
A SC without a roots blower is no longer a SC IMO.

Once you remove the blower and/or motor, the car is no longer a SC and shouldn't be classifed as one.

Sure, some people play with their motors a lot, but I think as long as you stay with the original 3.8 block and roots type blower, then the car still maintains the original SC look.


BlueThunder90- Nice to hear your opinion, that would be #3 on the list

Turbo351
06-14-2004, 11:24 AM
I raised the issue because Micah and Doug both expressed the opinion that they did not see a choice the fit them. I felt the same way so that makes at least three of us.

I don't see any point in presenting the results to George, Duffy, etc. if we know people are choosing one option just because there is no option for what they really want.

al35thsc
06-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Well, somebody had to do it, so here it is. Let's see what people REALLY want, instead of trying to sort through all the BS. I'm curious to see how this turns out, because I think it could go purest, extremist, or somewhere in the middle with relative ease.

Here are the choices as I've seen people break it down:


SC VIN, SC BLOCK, ANYTHING GOES (without nitrous) ALL V6 UNRESTRICTED
SC VIN ONLY (anything else goes) NO NITROUS (on dyno)
SC VIN, SC BLOCK, M90 and versions ONLY (no nitrous or power adders)
SC VIN UNRESTRICTED - NITROUS PERMITTED
SEPERATE LISTS - SEPERATE VOTE TO DETERMINE



No "I Don't Care" option?

BlueThunder90
06-14-2004, 12:20 PM
I notice that there's only a few people here really involved in this topic. It seems that the majority of the membership could care less.

Bottom line guys, what's this all about? Internet-penis envy? My car makes more HP then yours? Does it matter if your car is at the top of the list or not? Naturally, each person involved here would want the list to adapt in their favour.

Turbo351
06-14-2004, 12:24 PM
Absolutely. What did you think it's about? LOL

I think the "I don't care" option would do well in the poll. :p





Internet-penis envy? My car makes more HP then yours? Does it matter if your car is at the top of the list or not? Naturally, each person involved here would want the list to adapt in their favour.

Bill McNeil
06-14-2004, 12:30 PM
Naturally, each person involved here would want the list to adapt in their favour.
Your just severely discredited your position with a completely false statement. The option I voted for would immediately push me down at least 2 spots on the list, and would continue to do so. Please don't state something as a fact when you are completely incorrect. I intentionally started this poll knowing the results would not favour me, so people could not claim that I am bias, or doing this for personal benifit.

Since you are now a Mustang owner and not an SC owner, I'm not sure why you are even bothering to share your opinion with us. You are not ranked on any SCCoA list, so I don't see why you care what happens anyway. Everyone else here is being constructive and trying to come up with amicable solutions to this dilemma, and you are just trying to insult the people who happen to care about the outcome of this vote.

Is that how you intend to contribute to the preservation of the SC, Steve?

Who are you to decide who cares and who doesn't?

Over 40 people have voted, and there are over 50 people on the list.

I'd say that means people who are INVOLVED.....CARE! :eek:

Bill McNeil
06-14-2004, 12:32 PM
No "I Don't Care" option?
Al,

You must have been hanging out with the Ontario crowd lately.

I'm glad it rubbed off on you to such an extent. ;)

Bill McNeil
06-14-2004, 12:35 PM
I think the "I don't care" option would do well in the poll.
I'm sure it's already doing well, actually.

It's called DON'T VOTE AT ALL if you don't care.

If you don't care, why are you reading through this thread, and posting on it?

It doesn't mean you have to ruin it for people who do care.

Show some respect and let the vote continue as it was intended.

Micahdogg
06-14-2004, 12:40 PM
Wayne summed it up for me: "I believe Micah wanted to see SC VIN, any Ford V6 block, any power adder including nitrous permitted."

That's what I'm saying. I like the V6 and I like the MN12. And if someone wanted to use an old 4.0L SVO block or some other Ford block or custom machined block then that's fine with me. I would rather see just Ford or custom machined blocks used rather than someone swapping a GN 3.8L into the MN12.

And the only difference is I'm fine with the use of Nitrous on the dyno...otherwise #1 would probably do fine for me.

You know, we could just list everyone in order and put different colored dots next to their name for whichever rule they are breaking. Blue dot if a V8 is swapped in, Red dot if Nitrous was used, yellow dot of M90 is gone, etc... Then when scanning the list you'll be able to distinguish the more "virgin" SC's from the "kitchen sink SC". Because in the end, if Wayne isn't true to the 3.8 it shouldn't really take away from his achievment, but for those that don't care about a 351 they could take it for what it's worth.

Micah

kuhnga
06-14-2004, 12:51 PM
Simply popping a bigger pill without proper tuning of fuel and timing will end your day in a hurry. The motor has to be properly upgraded to handle the amount of nitrous we're talking about. Nitrous is just like any other type of forced induction. It's just another method of getting air into the cylinders. I'll certainly admit it's a lot easier and cheaper than upgrading your blower and intercooler.

I never said the motor did not have to be built. Tuning is very complicated, and I am not sure if it is cheaper than any other mod I have. Actually I have spent as much on nitrous as any other mod, until the whipple.

I dynoed with 100 shot to check a/f, I was not to concerned at the HP/TQ #.
I could easily popped in 150 shot or even 200 if I wanted to beat a #, that is my point.
Once again there is no limit. You must have a little respect for what you our dealing with or you will be rebuilding.

Turbo351
06-14-2004, 02:25 PM
What are you waiting for? Jam in the 200 pill and let's see the first SC in the 10s. A V6 with 600 rwhp on the dyno would also be cool.







I never said the motor did not have to be built. Tuning is very complicated, and I am not sure if it is cheaper than any other mod I have. Actually I have spent as much on nitrous as any other mod, until the whipple.

I dynoed with 100 shot to check a/f, I was not to concerned at the HP/TQ #.
I could easily popped in 150 shot or even 200 if I wanted to beat a #, that is my point.
Once again there is no limit. You must have a little respect for what you our dealing with or you will be rebuilding.

David Neibert
06-14-2004, 05:36 PM
I agree, that the v8s shouldn't be listed with the v6s. While I would like a place to post track times and dyno numbers on my 347 turbo, I don't think it's fair lump them in with the v6 numbers (even if we had the ability to sort the list by engine size or power adders).

I also think it is unfair to restrict people to using an M-90 based supercharger or even a supercharger for that that matter. Look at the 2003 Cobra guys. They have gone from over driving stock blowers to porting the M112, to replacing it with a screw type supercharger (AR) and are now going to a centrificul supercharger (Pro Charger) to make even more power. Some have also begun converting to turbocharging.

I could go either way on the nitrous thing, because it is a little confusing that our dyno numbers don't allow nitrous and several other things, but our track times do allow it. So if someone looks at the most powerful list then looks at the quickest list...it won't make as much sense as it could. I understand the argument about not using nitrous on the dyno pulls, but like Wayne already said...it takes more than just spraying more nitrous to make it work.

If we have a seperate list for v8 powered SCs I'll contribute to that, if not I'll just list my numbers in my signature.

David

kuhnga
06-14-2004, 06:05 PM
I am not against nitrous either, my first vote would probably be no, but I am easily persuaded

Gary

XR7 Dave
06-14-2004, 06:18 PM
Whether people like it or not, the screw blower is here to stay. It does NOT significantly change the operation, functionality or LOOK of the 3.8L that Ford put in there. It will become a mod that people do to otherwise totally stock SC's. It will become the first thing people do and not the last.

By trying to keep an AR equipped car out of any list you will only alienating your fellow enthusiasts. The screw blower is not like nitrous or even like putting 351 connection rods in your 3.8 and calling it "stock". It is a bolt on modification that greatly enhances everything that Ford made great about the SC. To think otherwise is simply retarded.

Ya, I'm talking in my own interests. :rolleyes: Not really. I am interested in helping people get the most out of their SC's. Bottom line. I will never be at the top but if I can help raise the bar of SC performance, I'm all about it.

BlueThunder90
06-14-2004, 07:14 PM
Your just severely discredited your position with a completely false statement. The option I voted for would immediately push me down at least 2 spots on the list, and would continue to do so. Please don't state something as a fact when you are completely incorrect. I intentionally started this poll knowing the results would not favour me, so people could not claim that I am bias, or doing this for personal benifit.

Since you are now a Mustang owner and not an SC owner, I'm not sure why you are even bothering to share your opinion with us. You are not ranked on any SCCoA list, so I don't see why you care what happens anyway. Everyone else here is being constructive and trying to come up with amicable solutions to this dilemma, and you are just trying to insult the people who happen to care about the outcome of this vote.

Is that how you intend to contribute to the preservation of the SC, Steve?

Who are you to decide who cares and who doesn't?

Over 40 people have voted, and there are over 50 people on the list.

I'd say that means people who are INVOLVED.....CARE! :eek:

Sure, the list as you voted may push you down two spots initially, but I would assume that it would favour you in the long run to go along with your latest mods.

Why would I bother to share my opinion? I was a member of the SCCoO before you and had my SC for 4 years. I am also a paid member of this club. Not to mention that you posted a poll on a public forum. If you don't want other people to chime in, maybe you should talk about this crisis in private.

Who are you to question my intentions for preserving the SC? Beacause I question the intentions of this topic? Please!

Over 40 people have voted! WOW! How many active members are there in this club? How many active people post on this forum? There's probably less than 10 people that care of the outcome of this topic and 30 people voted for soemthing becuase "Who Cares" wasn't an option.

I think the people, by the lack have votes, have decided who cares. I just pointed out the obvious.

I just find this whole thing silly. :rolleyes:

Bill McNeil
06-14-2004, 10:14 PM
I was a member of the SCCoO before you and had my SC for 4 years.
Steve,

If I attended every SCCoO meeting for the last 4 years, I would have seen you less than 4 times. I would hardly consider you an active member of the SC community, either now, or while you owned you car. I am no longer a member of the SCCoO because most Ontario members share a similar attitude to yourself, and take pleasure in putting down other people, as well as spending most of their time submitting their opinion about things that don't concern them. If I asked 200 SCCoA members who you are, not one person would be able to tell me who you are. Your name resides on NO list here, and you have not attended any SCCoA events, to my knowledge. This is the SCCoA list, not the Ontario list. No one here cares about Ontario, I can assure you.

Who are you to question my intentions for preserving the SC?
Because I started this thread for people who DO CARE, not for the arrogant comments of those who think they are somehow above the rest of us, just because they don't share the same passion, interests or concerns about the SC community, and what it involves. If you don't want to vote, don't vote. It's just like a federal election.

Let me ask you this: when you go to vote for a potential change in government, do you get upset at Elections Canada because there is no box to check that says "I don't care" on an official ballot??? NO! you just shut up and don't vote. Take that advice. Don't bother participating in something that doesn't interest or concern you. If the outcome will not affect your life, you don't have to be involved.

Over 40 people have voted! WOW! How many active members are there in this club?
This banter is becoming idiotic, but I will humour you nevertheless. Yes, over 40 people voted. Find me another poll on this forum where 40 people voted within the span of 24 hours? If you can't, then why don't you post on ALL the other polls, where people ask "do you like the colour of my car", and ASK THEM why there is no options for "I don't care"? ...Because people aren't going to cater to people like you who try to rain on other people's parades. If you have nothing constructive to add to this topic, then why bother critisizing the intentions of others?

Let me ask you this: If 50 people vote on this thread, out of 1000 members, and only 50 cars showed up to Carlisle this year, out of 1000 members, then next time there is a thread about Carlisle, why don't you tell people they shouldn't go because there is such a poor turn-out? Why don't you tell people they are pathetic for coming out in such small numbers? If your judgement of how important things are, or how much people care is based on how many people participate, then why don't you suggest we cancel such events in the future, unless you are satisfied with the percentage of people participating? Is Carlisle silly because only 50 cars show up every year? According to your mentality, in YOUR WORLD, it would be!

I just find this whole thing silly.
Then stop posting here. You keep coming back and adding comments to something you find "silly" and "don't care about", so why bother being so involved? I think you DO CARE about the outcome, and you are upset it is not residing in your interest or preference. If you are going to call everyone else out, then you should expect to be called out by others. Maybe I should become a paying member of the Mustang club, and post on every thread and tell people "I don't care" about the topic they are discussing. I'm sure I'd be very welcome there with that attitude, don't you? That is exactly what you are doing here, Steve!

BlueThunder90
06-15-2004, 06:37 AM
You are definitely one who shouldn't be calling anyone arrogant, that's for damn sure. :D

I thought about following up with a reply, but I've got better things to do today....like golf.

I'm not going to make this anymore of a personal mudslinging event...

I will say one thing in closing, don't post anything on a public forum, if you don't want other's opinions. It's quite simple. Come on over to the GTAMC and share your opinion, I'm not a member there anyways :)

Bill McNeil
06-15-2004, 10:09 AM
Gentlemen,

I'm gone for a week, and back next Tuesday.

I hope people continue to vote.

kuhnga
06-15-2004, 11:44 AM
Gentlemen,

I'm gone for a week, and back next Tuesday.

I hope people continue to vote.


Bill- It is only a stupid list. :p :p

Where you going?

David Neibert
06-15-2004, 01:25 PM
Bill- It is only a stupid list. :p :p

Where you going?

Gary,

He's going to Budapest for a circumcision, or maybe it was a christening, I can't remember which.

David

wezar
06-15-2004, 10:47 PM
One for Various catagories.

I would like to see a interactive list that we could check boxes for various mods and sort the thing however we wish.

ThunderRoad
06-17-2004, 05:49 AM
One for Various catagories.

I would like to see a interactive list that we could check boxes for various mods and sort the thing however we wish.
:eek: :eek: NOW WE,RE TALKING..... :confused: :confused:

92strokedbird
06-19-2004, 10:03 AM
First off this is an opinion poll,whether you like someone's opinion or not.I have not posted on this topic since i already knew how it was going to turn out.It ended up a mud slinging event! I also have not voted due to the lack of options for voting,what is wrong with more options.If only 30 or 40 people have voted i would have to say it is due to a lack of categories they would pick.If George or Duffy would have started this poll for the majority of the members to vote on i am sure that it would cover more categories so all would have a place to vote even if they dont care.When you (Bill) started this on the sccoo board this thread got so heated that it was deleted and you removed yourself from our club activities.That was your choice and so be it,but i think the reason for such a low number of people polling on this is due to a lack of options.If i had to guess i would say most of the people who want this change are going to or have already ordered an upgraded system such as a whipple.I am sorry that you took your bat and ball and went home when you did not get your way on this topic on the sccoo board,i hope that you dont have the same approach here!

kuhnga
06-19-2004, 04:39 PM
First off this is an opinion poll,whether you like someone's opinion or not.I have not posted on this topic since i already knew how it was going to turn out.It ended up a mud slinging event! I also have not voted due to the lack of options for voting,what is wrong with more options.If only 30 or 40 people have voted i would have to say it is due to a lack of categories they would pick.If George or Duffy would have started this poll for the majority of the members to vote on i am sure that it would cover more categories so all would have a place to vote even if they dont care.When you (Bill) started this on the sccoo board this thread got so heated that it was deleted and you removed yourself from our club activities.That was your choice and so be it,but i think the reason for such a low number of people polling on this is due to a lack of options.If i had to guess i would say most of the people who want this change are going to or have already ordered an upgraded system such as a whipple.I am sorry that you took your bat and ball and went home when you did not get your way on this topic on the sccoo board,i hope that you dont have the same approach here!



I am not sure why people are knocking Bill, if the rules change he would be pushed down the list, no matter what they are! Bill is a good friend of mine and at this point in time he has no intentions on going to a Whipple. He has stated what his goals were with the M90, so please dont assuse him of having some type of agenda.

If we had 50 choices we would still leave people out, so you simply vote for the one you like the best.

One other note. There 3 people Dave, Anthony and myself that have whipples right now, we all requested that the rules be updated a year ago. I will NOT have a V6 or a whipple in my car in a few months, but I will stand behind how I voted forever.

Gary

92strokedbird
06-19-2004, 06:36 PM
I am not knocking Bill,i am simply stating that the options listed are very limited.We had this discussion on the sccoo board about a year ago and it has surfaced here.One member has stated that some other options be included so we can get more people involved in the vote,there are a lot more votes to be had than just 40 people.

SilverCasket
06-19-2004, 08:28 PM
I will NOT have a V6 or a whipple in my car in a few months, but I will stand behind how I voted forever.

WOW! Now That's News! ...
Anthony

pro street rich
06-19-2004, 08:42 PM
The wrong blower, by the current rules, then you should be taken off the top horse power list...... Rules are rules, so now what do you do????? I guess that Anthony should be taken off the top spot!!!!!!!! Oh well, it was good while it lasted..........

Now this week I will be going to the dyno, and if things go good there might be someone new in the top ten or so. The last time when I broke the crank it was on it's way to go over 350 and no ones knows for sure how much more was left in that time bomb.......It came apart before it got over 3000 rpm's, but the #'s look really good.. Stay tuned for more on this time bomb, and time to redo that top ten list, or change the rules......ONE or the OTHER.............Rich

XR7 Dave
06-20-2004, 08:31 AM
I'm starting to feel like Bill. If people insist on sticking their heads in the sand, so be it. If this is simply a society to protect the worthless ~~~ that sits on top of (most of) our motors, then what is the point of perpetuating the club? I for one get bored answering the same old "why is my car stuttering" questions over and over, especially when the forum has a great search engine!

It is this same type of attitude that distanced this community from the possibility of significant advance several years ago. If people want to do it again then have fun.

I think it was Gary who commented before something like "who would turn down a Autorotor if it were free?" I dare say no one would except maybe Manny. :cool: LOL So really it just comes down to simple jealousy over what one person can afford vrs. another. That is so hypocritical and is in such bad taste it is sickening.

For the people who insist that we need to have a seperate list for M90 powered cars, give me a break! There are plenty of examples of what HP levels are possible with an M90 such that if a person can't get the picture by now 10 YEARS after production ended on the car then they must be retarded!

The list is pretty much useless as a tool to evaluate mods anyhow. If people were really trying to use it to gauge the effectiveness of mods, then it would only be usefull to compare the results of particular cars as they were modified and the list has no provision to show that. David N's results are totally different than the same mods would have been on a 5spd car. Someone might look at that and see that Bill made more HP than David did. Would it be right then to think that Bill's combination is more effective than David's? I hope not because you'd be dead wrong. Why not? The answer will take a little insight into the workings of cars/engines/chassis/dyno's. Which should be more than enough insight to be able to understand the difference between an AR and an Eaton if they were included on the same list.

I also find it funny that anyone in this club cares how the list is configured at all. The list is a finite list. In other words, no one is going to be bumped off the list. Only some people will change places, and particularily if you are in 33rd position, a change to the rules will not even affect you! I don't anticipate more than 20 people will EVER change to an AR or Turbo, and most of those people ALREADY reside in the top 25 anyhow! Being that most of those people voted here I feel that there has been excellent participation. If one were to compare this to a national election I'm sure you would find the participation % is very good from the people who "might" be affected by the outcome.

I provided a token vote, but honestly I don't much care how it turns out. I realize that George made an executive decision at the time the list was made as to what the allowed mods were going to be and I agreed with his choices at the time. I have since changed my mind, but I have also changed my underwear so I don't really mind if the list stays as it is or if it changes with the times. I think it should change with the times and I think we have made way to big of a thing about it. I see no reason why the rules couldn't change weekly so that everyone would have a chance to be at the top but I think that would be way too much hassle.

And no, Bill hasn't ordered an AR. He is as stubborn as always and he insists that he will beat my 1/4 mile time before he cans the M90. In other words, Bill will have the last M90 on the road. :D

Andrew Wang
06-20-2004, 10:21 AM
Speaking in general terms here, if people decide that a particular blower
or whatever that is not "stock equipment" disqualifies someone from being on
the "SC Fastest List" or Dyno List then it makes sense that if we swap a
stock air filter with a K&N or go to a bigger Maf or TB should also disqualify
us.

Whether I get one or not, I say bring on the Whipple or AR or whatever else,
at least I have more choices now...wife permitting of course. :rolleyes:

SeanMatteson
06-20-2004, 08:56 PM
Speaking in general terms here, if people decide that a particular blower
or whatever that is not "stock equipment" disqualifies someone from being on
the "SC Fastest List" or Dyno List then it makes sense that if we swap a
stock air filter with a K&N or go to a bigger Maf or TB should also disqualify
us.

Good luck! ...I've tried pleading this case here before. I agree with you 100%! Either we allow modded SC's to be eligible for the list, or we revert to a purist environment where anything other than what was available from Ford 'out of the box' on the SC's means that you're disqualified from participating. We can argue all we want about an appropriate place to draw the 'line in the sand', but the fact is the Whipple, or a turbo set-up, or NOS are all added to our cars for exactly the same purpose as a K&N panel filter in a stock airbox, or UD accessory pulleys, or aftermarket performance plug wires for that matter! ...It's about stretching the performance envelop of these cars. So, if it's OK to do any one or combination of these 'lesser' things, then who are we to say that someone willing to fabricate and install a custom turbo kit, or someone like Dave D. who put together a kit for mounting a Whipple or AR blower to our cars, or people like Wayne Ing or Pro Street Rich who shoe-horned bigger displacement V8's into the engine bay... Who the hell are we to say they don't belong?! ...That they aren't sticking with the spirit and mission of this club?!

OK, if we can't decide to put everyone on the existing list, or some list resembling it, then let's at least give these people someplace on our club web-space for posting their accomplishments. To not do so is an injustice in my opinion!

I agree with Dave, if people insist on burying their heads in the sand, and choose to ignore advancements like we're seeing right now, then what is the friggin' point of all this?! Why are we even bothering George and Duffy and Ron D. and the rest of the people who contribute their time here with the upkeep of the website and forums?! If all we're interested in is PRESERVING the SC and supercharged XR7, then we don't really need any of this, because they stopped building these cars ten years ago! I'm sure anything we ever wanted to know about what these cars were capable of out of the box is already available elsewhere on the internet, and perhaps people even know how to use Google (or whatever search engine they prefer) to actually search for it!

I'd like to think that we're also about ENHANCING these cars. That means people are going to have to keep doing new and different things in order to move forward. If we're not going to allow people to be innovative, then it's only a matter of time before none of us will have any reason left for coming here.

C'mon people!!! ...Take your fingers, press them to your carotid artery and let's see if you've still got a friggin' pulse!!!

Now, in response to 92strokedbird's post criticizing Bill for putting this poll together, I'm a little disappointed that your view would be so narrow. Just because this issue was raised over on the SCCoO forum and the result was that NOTHING was really changed doesn't mean the right decision was made in that case. Yes, Bill took a step back from that Chapter of the SCCoA, but I think it's safe to say that Bill has increased his presence in the SCCoA in general. There were a number of personality conflicts between Bill and other members of the SCCoO that just weren't getting resolved. When a good number of the membership there teamed up against him, Bill decided that it would be best to steer clear of the chapter and its functions. I think Bill acted rather maturely given the circumstances! ...He did what he felt he had to do in order for everyone involved to be able to move on. I'm sure he would have prefered it could be resolved another way, and I know I wish it could have been handled differently. Stephen, you and I have gotten along just fine in the past, and I hope that doesn't change going forward, but I've gotta ask what motivated you to post what you did here about Bill and this poll when you've never participated in any list on the SCCoA, the SCCoO, or anywhere else that I'm aware of. You're driving around with one of the first ever Morana stroker V6's, and yet I've never seen dyno numbers or quarter mile times from you. Who are you to criticize Bill for posting a poll comprised of the various options which were voiced in a previous thread on the Non-Tech forum? ...Many people were voicing their opinion that it should be put to a poll. ...He simply did what no one else had the balls to do! If people cared enough to say later that the options were too limited, they should have voiced those concerns in the very early stages of the poll. I'm sure Bill would have been happy to ask that a moderator delete the previous poll so that he could start a fresh one. I think he has since indicated that if at the end of this poll, people feel that it's too constraining, then we can start another one.

I know you since indicated that you were "not knocking Bill", but I think that in bringing up all that crap about when this discussion occurred over on the SCCoO forum and how vocal Bill was during all that you were knocking Bill, intentional or not. I find it difficult not to take comments like "I am sorry that you took your bat and ball and went home when you did not get your way on this topic on the sccoo board" as anything other than antagonistic.

I can tell you that Bill is away on vacation right now and is not able to access these forums. That is why you haven't heard from Bill here in the past week. He'll be returning this Tuesday or Wednesday, and I hope he's not too disappointed to see that only the predictably few key players have really done anything constructive with this poll.

Everyone else, I'm sorry for the rant. I guess that sometimes I just take this club way too seriously!

Respectfully,

Sean

92strokedbird
06-20-2004, 09:45 PM
We all have our own interpretations of what is going on here.I was also away in the hospital for the past week and before that had not given the board much of my time.I find it hard to believe that only 40-50 people would vote on this,except to say that due to a lack of choices.When the question was raised about adding choices it was shot down.I for one find that if you do not include enough choices then you are separating the club instead of having a place for all.As was the case with our own sccoo board it was almost at the point of some going off on their own.I just feel that one list for all is more than adequate and anything more is just chest pounding.To each his own!

SeanMatteson
06-20-2004, 09:59 PM
I for one find that if you do not include enough choices then you are separating the club instead of having a place for all.

Stephen, I agree with you here. However, you have to recognize that this poll was put together without the assistance of anyone who has any official power around here. From the get-go, Bill indicated it was a poll based solely on the various possible choices that people had voiced in the week or two previous in a thread on a related topic. That being said, I don't know that any list of options would ever be deemed 'complete'. I'm sure we could end up with nearly as many choices as we have active members in the SCCoA, and we'd get nowhere. Maybe these options aren't perfect, and no one said you couldn't voice your concerns about that here under the poll, but Bill's not the guy you should be pointing your finger at.


As was the case with our own sccoo board it was almost at the point of some going off on their own.I just feel that one list for all is more than adequate and anything more is just chest pounding.To each his own!

THANK-YOU!!!

That was exactly the option that I was promoting. Unfortunately, my suggested option was worded "4. SC VIN UNRESTRICTED - NITROUS PERMITTED", and I think that the presence of "NITROUS PERMITTED" has turned some people off. The whole idea behind my proposed option was for there to be one list that anyone and everyone would belong to. To facilitate comparing ones own car to those of others, I suggested we build filtering funtionality which would allow the viewer to choose how they wanted to see the list. I'm sure we would have needed another poll just to decide what different categories should be included in the filtering functionality, but we could have made it work. If you recall, I suggested something similar for the SCCoO back when all that crap was going down there over this issue.

Anyway, if that's how you feel, then I think option #4 is where you could place your vote.

Best regards,

Sean

92strokedbird
06-20-2004, 10:10 PM
I know that many are going the V-8 route,and to be honest i should have before.Many of the members that have posted the fastest times with a 3.8 are stepping up to them as well.I would find it an insult to be left out due to wanting to go to the next level as this board has been their home for many years.They have much knowledge and wisdom to share and not including them would be only weaking the club!

XR7 Dave
06-20-2004, 10:54 PM
I think the fastest page and Hp pages should be slightly reformatted to allow two lists to be displayed along side each other. One for V6's and one for V8's. That way we could see the accomplishments of each without having to "compete" with each other as I am sure we all see the different value of a V8 car vrs a V6 one.

Of course allowing V8's on any list goes against the mission statement of the club but I'm ok with that if everyone else is.

I dont' really like a sorted list. That is way more complicated than there is any reason for it to be. We don't have enough members to bother with such a program. It seems there are only a small handful of people who insist that there be multiple lists/categories so there is no need for the whole club to cater to those "needs".

kuhnga
06-21-2004, 06:56 AM
I think the fastest page and Hp pages should be slightly reformatted to allow two lists to be displayed along side each other. One for V6's and one for V8's. That way we could see the accomplishments of each without having to "compete" with each other as I am sure we all see the different value of a V8 car vrs a V6 one.

Of course allowing V8's on any list goes against the mission statement of the club but I'm ok with that if everyone else is.

I dont' really like a sorted list. That is way more complicated than there is any reason for it to be. We don't have enough members to bother with such a program. It seems there are only a small handful of people who insist that there be multiple lists/categories so there is no need for the whole club to cater to those "needs".


Dave has a great thought here.

It is ridiculous to think V6, V8, nitrous should be on one list to compare numbers. However it is extremely important that guys who push the envelope with V8's and do something different are not left out. The 2 list side by side V6/V8 would be great. No list is more important than the other, very easy to look and compare, point and click. The sort by mods thing is to complicate, it can be that easy

Turbo351
06-21-2004, 09:00 AM
What are your thoughts on including MN12 Tbirds and Cougars which are not SCs or XR7s? Do we want to keep this club exclusive to SCs and XR7s only?

Micahdogg
06-21-2004, 09:39 AM
This isn't really a points race. No one gets paid more money for being higher on the list. I've always viewed the list as entertainment and as a source of bragging rights. It's good to drum up some competition and give people something to aim for. But honestly, so many guys out there have mega investments in their SC's that I just can't keep up. I have no desire to get higher on the list and I really don't lose any sleep over who is doing what or who is higher than someone else on the list.

So I guess I don't really see the big deal? I would think ripping out the 3.8L V6 would pretty much be the ultimate way to bastardize an SC, but why are people getting so bent out of shape just because someone else has everything and the kitchen sink in their 3.8L V6?

In the end, all the list will be is entertainment and braggin rights. So who really cares?

I just see this being sooooo easy. List everyone in order, but make it easy to see if they have REALLY signicant changes to the car. (351, turbo, whipple). I don't even think Nitrous is that big of a deal. You can get a kit for as much as a supercharger top .... and everyone and their mom has Nitrous these days.

No matter what comes of the list, I will still have the same feelings for it. It's entertaining and every once in a blue moon I'll hop in and see where the chips have fallen.

Micah

SeanMatteson
06-21-2004, 09:40 AM
Personally, I think we should be restricting things to the R-code vehicles, otherwise we already have the TCCoA for everyone else. I know we've welcomed all MN12's and even some Fox-bodied T-Bird and Cougar guys over on the SCCoO, but given the mission statement here on the SCCoA, I think we should be sticking to the true SC's and supercharged XR7's, at least for now.

Cheers,

Sean

kuhnga
06-21-2004, 12:04 PM
SC Vin is already part of the selections criteria above. I think that is why the TCCOA was formed as well.

Turbo351
06-21-2004, 12:30 PM
Yes, the TCCOA is the place for all MN12s, SC or not. It was started back in the day because the SCCOA only allowed SCs and XR7s.

To be more specific, anything with a MN12 chassis is essentially the same car to me. The SCs are certainly more attractive with the skirt package and interior trimmings, and that's why I own one instead of an LX. Anyone can take a LX and make it look identical to an SC without too much effort. You would never know unless you checked the VIN. Lots of guys are dumping features like ARC, ABS, and other SC specific features so the real difference might only be in the VIN. So if the VIN number does not contain the R code, is that really important to you?

The MN12 cars all have the same challenges when it comes to making RWHP or fast quarter mile times. They are the same where it counts. As far as I'm concerned, the only difference is in the trim level and options. I would say that most people in the SCCOA are not ready to accept non-SCs at this point.

Micahdogg
06-21-2004, 12:58 PM
My SC has no wipers, AC, or ABS :)

Micah

kuhnga
06-21-2004, 01:45 PM
My SC has no wipers, AC, or ABS :)

Micah


diddo and alot more.

8ate8
06-21-2004, 02:02 PM
my opinion is v6 and a blower. that's it. you want to swap to turbo? wanna put in a 351? that's fine and dandy. we have the tccoa for turbo'ed cars and v8's. the pure heart of the super coupe is a super charged V6. the list should reflect that.

Micahdogg
06-21-2004, 02:56 PM
Isn't changing wheels and hoods taking away from the SC? Anything that is changed from factory is taking away from the SC. So if people can customize their cars cosmetically as radically as they want, why not let em do it to the motor? I've got Mustang wheel and brakes on my SC....doesn't that take away from it?

I say even if someone wants to drop a Viper V10 in an SC.....let him do it and post the numbers. Surely people will want to know how fast it is, how much power, how it handles, etc... Just make a special notation so that newbies can see right away, "OH....he doesn't have the V6 anymore see."

Micah

92strokedbird
06-21-2004, 06:51 PM
If you simply put all on one list from fastest to slowest then you can also see how well you can get a V6 to perform against a V8.We also have members who have the 4.6 with the Allen blower package on their cars as well.I for one would rather not alienate any of the current members just cause they dont have a V6.They are all T-Birds of the same chassis,there is lots to be learned from all for this to be a good club.

8ate8
06-21-2004, 07:08 PM
They are all T-Birds of the same chassis,there is lots to be learned from all for this to be a good club.

Yes, but the SCCoA is a specialized club. It's strictly for a certain model of thunderbird, more importantly, said vehicle has a super charged v6. if this was a generic thunderbird club, this poll wouldn't even exist.

SeanMatteson
06-21-2004, 07:47 PM
Yes, but the SCCoA is a specialized club. It's strictly for a certain model of thunderbird, more importantly, said vehicle has a super charged v6. if this was a generic thunderbird club, this poll wouldn't even exist.

Jim,

With all due respect, I don't recall this club being called the 'SV6C'. It's called the Super Coupe Club of America. We need to somehow agree on what makes a Super Coupe a Super Coupe. If it has to be a supercharged V6 engine, then maybe it should also be only a stock air box with air silencer. And maybe it should have to be stock wheels with stock sized and quality tires. And maybe it should only allow for stock hoods. ...Do you see my point?

I'm met more than a few people in the past five years or so who all thought the T-Bird Super Coupe came from Ford with a 5.0L HO under the hood. They are adamnant that it couldn't possibly have a 3.8L V6! In all likelihood, Ford probably should have built these cars with a supercharged 5.0L HO in it. At least then we probably would have had a much bigger aftermarket following!!! :D

Cheers,

Sean

Regards,

Sean

pro street rich
06-21-2004, 09:08 PM
One is a blown BIG block [612],the other is a na BIG block [514] or did it get bigger, I forgot???? [567 anyone]. You don't see me crying about the list. I asked LONG ago about it and was told by some of the same people who now are looking to open up the list that they didn't fit the mission, WELL HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM............ oh wait that is some other "Soap" story.......One list for the V6's, one for the rest of us.....that's all, simple and eazy.............Rich

David Neibert
06-22-2004, 12:43 PM
It's called the Super Coupe Club of Ontario.

Sean,

If you want to change the name of the club, we should probably start another poll :rolleyes:

David

SeanMatteson
06-22-2004, 01:20 PM
Sean,

If you want to change the name of the club, we should probably start another poll :rolleyes:

David

Oooooooops!!!

Thanks for pointing that out, David. That was a major slip!

Y'all weren't supposed to find out until late '05 about the SCCoO's plot to take over the whole of the current SCCoA! :D

J/K. I've gone back and corrected my original mistake.

Cheers,

Sean

David Neibert
06-22-2004, 02:31 PM
Thanks for pointing that out, David. That was a major slip!

Sean,

No problem, I just wanted to lighten this thread up a little ;)

David

Bill McNeil
06-28-2004, 09:37 PM
Alright....I guess we have to vote again (if everyone still cares). ;)

50% was the magic number, but we didn't achieve a consensus on the issue.

I'll start something else when I get a chance.

ThunderRoad
07-02-2004, 02:02 PM
:eek: :eek: GOOD THING. :cool: :cool: AS MANY WANT INPUT.......... :D :D

90SC BIG BLOCK
01-22-2005, 02:13 AM
Keep it simple stupid, its a old saying that rings true now.

1.Supercharged V-6
2.Open Class

There are XR-7's ,so we need to make it simple.

Frank Bokodi
01-26-2005, 11:25 PM
I'll first confess that I haven't read all 5 pages of response to this, then I'll give my $.02. It seems to me there are two otpions. The first is....

Considering all the valid points in this discussion as far as "Nitrouos is a Power Adder", "Turbos are Power Adders", etc... etc.. etc... The issue here is MOST POWERFUL SC. A Thunderbird SC is a 3.8 litre, Supercharged, Intercooled, Multiport Fuel Injected, 90degree V6. Any modifications to those specs should be acceptable as long as that basic platform is kept. A Thunderbird SC is not a Turbo V6. It is not any kind of V8. It does not have NOS. It may have an upgraded Charger, bigger injectors, ported heads, etc... you get my drift. (Over bores for the purpose of Overhaul isn't something to nitpick over considering the negligable displacement gains) Don't get me wrong, I don't want everyone jumping my **** for condemning the Turbo 351W out there running low 11's. That is not what I'm doing. I would love to build a 4.6 32V Mark VIII motor, Supercharge it, Cram it into a SC, back it with a 6 sp. and have more fun than any human being should be allowed to have. But I wouldn't expect it to top the Most Powerful SC list if it made the numbers. It is just not a Thunderbird SC anymore. So if we have one list it should be SC vin, SC Block, No Nitrous. The only other option is...

Seperate categories... Although how many arguements will arise over, which category "this or that" fits into. Then, how many categories are there going to be?

I would love to have the most powerful SC! (won't happen, won't ever have the money) I hope I haven't stepped on too many toes :o. This is just my opinion, and my vote.

XxSlowpokexX
01-27-2005, 12:55 AM
Sean,

What makes a supercoupe a supercoupe according to the SCCOA has already been defined.

To change that definition is what this is all about.

Pablo94SC
08-18-2005, 10:02 AM
Jesus... are you people still arguing about this? Come on. Let's make it really simple folks...

SC VIN
SC block
Independent rear end (optional)

Everything else goes. But seriously, does it really matter? Sure, it feels good to be the bestest/fastest/badest car in a group, but come on. You're all starting to act like children. It's a car folks. Drive it, race it, have fun with it, drive it off a pier... just forget the "rules" and let the time slips prove who's got the goods. That's all that really matters anyway.

PS: Since you are all gung-ho about no NOS (what's your beef with Nitrous Oxide Systems anyway?), I guess I'll have to install a Zex system instead. :rolleyes:

PPS: Stop using terms like NOS for nitrous. It makes you look stupid... and I say that with love.

XxSlowpokexX
08-18-2005, 05:50 PM
7 months later Pablo brings a dead post back with an attitude!

I must be rubbing off on him haha

pro street rich
08-18-2005, 08:33 PM
7 months later Pablo brings a dead post back with an attitude!

I must be rubbing off on him haha
He is the guy that gives the tour's at Graceland. Might even be Elvis himself, as they say he too is back from the grave..........Just playing with you Pablo..... Got to have fun sometimes........
Now for the poll, if the vin is S.C. , then so is the car... Run what you got and let the cards fall where they may.....................Rich

Pablo94SC
08-19-2005, 04:30 PM
It's that time of the month. Don't mind me. Move along. Nothing to see here.

gsp393
08-16-2009, 04:07 PM
I've got an unfinished 393 stroker that I was building for my mustang pre-Ike. I've got a '90 SC with a post-Ike blown head gasket. The easy way and cheaper too would be to swap the stroker for the 3.8 and be done with it, but it wouldn't be a true SC anymore.

David Neibert
09-01-2009, 04:39 PM
I've got an unfinished 393 stroker that I was building for my mustang pre-Ike. I've got a '90 SC with a post-Ike blown head gasket. The easy way and cheaper too would be to swap the stroker for the 3.8 and be done with it, but it wouldn't be a true SC anymore.

What makes a true SC is not written in stone...just build whatever makes you happy.

David

super red91
09-01-2009, 04:51 PM
Holy hell Bill McNeil hahahahaha