Roller rockers
- Thread starter scfix92
- Start date
BT Motorsports
Registered User
1.73 rockers like those pictured below are used for our application:
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Paul
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</center>Paul
BT Motorsports
Registered User
I hear ya, but unless you get a used set of 1.73s thats about the best you will find price wise since those are the only style that fit unless you go to a stud mount.
Paul
Paul
XR7 Dave
Registered User
scfix92 said:
No, they do not fit. You have to use 351C applications or 3.8L applications.
Roller rockers are snake oil anyhow. Why bother spending money that does not result in a HP gain?? Bling under the valve covers isn't much help and it's not like the stockers have been proven unreliable. How about you give me $200 and I'll send you a note swearing that you have better performance.
XR7 Dave said:No, they do not fit. You have to use 351C applications or 3.8L applications.
Roller rockers are snake oil anyhow. Why bother spending money that does not result in a HP gain?? Bling under the valve covers isn't much help and it's not like the stockers have been proven unreliable. How about you give me $200 and I'll send you a note swearing that you have better performance.
alright smart elic I want new ones not for the horsepower my car is nothing about Hp I want new ones for reliabilty cause I mix my old ones up not thinking and since they wear matched I thought I would get new ones for my head gasket job. I am getting another block and from there I am building it up
XR7 Dave
Registered User
Ya, that was pretty smart alic of me but you have to admit it was kind of funny. Seriously, I would not bother with roller rockers on a stockish rebuild. I've seen plenty of roller tips fail such that I dont' really consider them to be more reliable than stock and stock replacements are about $25 I think.
I mean if you want roller rockers, then get them but from a reliability and performance standpoint new OE replacements are as good as anything.
I mean if you want roller rockers, then get them but from a reliability and performance standpoint new OE replacements are as good as anything.
XR7 Dave
Registered User
I meant if you are worried about wear patterns you should be able to find replacement new stock rockers for very cheap. However, I have used (and so do others) the stock rockers with mixmatched fulcrums etc with no issues. Just make sure you put the fulcrums in the right way because they do form a directional wear pattern.
I get Felpro gaskets and head bolts from AutoZone. By snout seals do you mean the supercharger? Those only need replacing if they are leaking. I've seen posts on here about where to find them, just do a search. AZ won't have them.
I get Felpro gaskets and head bolts from AutoZone. By snout seals do you mean the supercharger? Those only need replacing if they are leaking. I've seen posts on here about where to find them, just do a search. AZ won't have them.
93BLKSC
Registered User
Roller this or Roller that
Which Roller Rockers are breaking?
I agree that there is no hp/TQ gain from roller rockers. Roller tips alone don't do much, except possibly decrease valve guide wear. Needle bearing fulcrums AND roller tips are the way to go for reduced friction.
I'd buy stainless steel rockers before I'd buy alum. rockers. Stainless is heavier, but lasts longer. Unless you're building a motor to rev into the stratosphere, I don't think that light weight valve train components are worth the high price that they command.
What thinks you about all this?
Curious 68COUGAR
Dave,XR7 Dave said:
Which Roller Rockers are breaking?
I agree that there is no hp/TQ gain from roller rockers. Roller tips alone don't do much, except possibly decrease valve guide wear. Needle bearing fulcrums AND roller tips are the way to go for reduced friction.
I'd buy stainless steel rockers before I'd buy alum. rockers. Stainless is heavier, but lasts longer. Unless you're building a motor to rev into the stratosphere, I don't think that light weight valve train components are worth the high price that they command.
What thinks you about all this?
Curious 68COUGAR
93BLKSC
Registered User
Rocker Tip Pressure
Next question: Of the rollers that failed, were they running very high lift AND/OR big rocker ratios? Generally when a person converts to roller rockers, they are also going for higher lift, & bigger ratio.
Also with roller rockers, you need to make sure that you set them up properly. ie: At mid lift, the rocker should be in the center of the valve. This is something that a lot of people don't do. Not properly setting up the rollers, will result in hyper-extention of the roller, & valve tip pressure to spike. I'm not sure I used all the correct terms, but I think you'll get the idea.
I guess what I'm saying, is that bad set up of rocker geometry, usually results in bad wear. So was it Bad Geometry, or Bad parts?
Hmmmmmmmmmm?
68COUGAR
It's absolutely true that roller tip rocker exert more pressure on a concentrated point than sled rockers do.XR7 Dave said:
Next question: Of the rollers that failed, were they running very high lift AND/OR big rocker ratios? Generally when a person converts to roller rockers, they are also going for higher lift, & bigger ratio.
Also with roller rockers, you need to make sure that you set them up properly. ie: At mid lift, the rocker should be in the center of the valve. This is something that a lot of people don't do. Not properly setting up the rollers, will result in hyper-extention of the roller, & valve tip pressure to spike. I'm not sure I used all the correct terms, but I think you'll get the idea.
I guess what I'm saying, is that bad set up of rocker geometry, usually results in bad wear. So was it Bad Geometry, or Bad parts?
Hmmmmmmmmmm?
68COUGAR
SuperQuick
SCCoA Member
Is somethin' dragging here
It's all about efficiency. Like putting on a good pair of running shoes instead of runnin' down the street in your Buster Brown's.
The stock push rods are a 3-piece (welded, glued or just pressed together). Since we had 'em out, I replaced them with a custom cut one-piece. Less parts to break when we crank this beast to life.
It's all about efficiency. Like putting on a good pair of running shoes instead of runnin' down the street in your Buster Brown's.
The stock push rods are a 3-piece (welded, glued or just pressed together). Since we had 'em out, I replaced them with a custom cut one-piece. Less parts to break when we crank this beast to life.
XR7 Dave
Registered User
If you really want to improve the efficiency of the SC motor, then remove that hunk of aluminum from on top of the intake manifold.
Seriously, the damaged rockers that I have seen were not due to excessive high lift or extreme ramp speeds. As for installation, don't really know but anything is possible.
Talking about # of parts in a system is a good point. Stock rockers - 3 parts. Roller rockers - 10 parts. Hmmmmm... Also there isn't any way that you can improperly install the stock rockers. They only go on one way.
I am not trying to "bash" roller rockers. I'm just mentioning that they can have problems and I personally have seen no performance advantage from them. As a side note, I agree with the one-piece hardened pushrods being a good idea also, but they don't offer any performance advantage. I was told that a hardened pushrod would help high rpm performance due to flexing of the stock components. I thought this sounded logical especially since I found 4 of my pushrods bent after about 5000 miles so I replaced them with hardened ones.
None of this has resulted in a HP or TQ advantage on my car. I dynoed 343rwhp and 390rwtq before and I dyno'd 335rwhp and 389rwtq afterward. Sure it was a different day, different conditions yada yada, but I got the impression that neither the roller rockers or the hardened pushrods actually did anything for me on my high HP motor.
My biggest thing is that if something doesnt' give me an advantage in some way, I tend not to spend money on it.
Just my opinion.
Seriously, the damaged rockers that I have seen were not due to excessive high lift or extreme ramp speeds. As for installation, don't really know but anything is possible.
Talking about # of parts in a system is a good point. Stock rockers - 3 parts. Roller rockers - 10 parts. Hmmmmm... Also there isn't any way that you can improperly install the stock rockers. They only go on one way.
I am not trying to "bash" roller rockers. I'm just mentioning that they can have problems and I personally have seen no performance advantage from them. As a side note, I agree with the one-piece hardened pushrods being a good idea also, but they don't offer any performance advantage. I was told that a hardened pushrod would help high rpm performance due to flexing of the stock components. I thought this sounded logical especially since I found 4 of my pushrods bent after about 5000 miles so I replaced them with hardened ones.
None of this has resulted in a HP or TQ advantage on my car. I dynoed 343rwhp and 390rwtq before and I dyno'd 335rwhp and 389rwtq afterward. Sure it was a different day, different conditions yada yada, but I got the impression that neither the roller rockers or the hardened pushrods actually did anything for me on my high HP motor.
My biggest thing is that if something doesnt' give me an advantage in some way, I tend not to spend money on it.
Just my opinion.
XxSlowpokexX
Registered User
Pushrods are one of the thing soften overlooked. However hardened pushrods does not stop flexing. Just wear when comming in contact with the guide plates..Generally hey have a coating on them. Thats why they barely cost more then stock. Getting one peice chromoly pushrods is a great idea as they are stronger and lighter. Beehive type springs with smaller retainers...Less weight, just as strong and less a chance of coil bind in high lift applications. The weight savings may be in grams but it makes a world of difference on how your motor Revs...Thsi is something Randy would have greatest experience with being motorcycle engine builders try to squeeze every last HP from an engine.
Back to the roller rockers.
I've dynoed 12rwhp with just the addition of 1.7 rr when swapping out my 1.6 stock ones on a stock 87 5.0 motor. Ive heard 8 for just a stock replacement ratio. What Ive always felt with RR is better Throttle responce.
Over the years I have cracker RR and all the problems associated were due to eithe rthe rocker comming loose or bending a pushrod. Sure the RR will require more maintanance but Ive gone over 50,000 mikles with no problem on them street driven. Hey the 93 5.0 Cobra came with RR Direct from ford
Back to the roller rockers.
I've dynoed 12rwhp with just the addition of 1.7 rr when swapping out my 1.6 stock ones on a stock 87 5.0 motor. Ive heard 8 for just a stock replacement ratio. What Ive always felt with RR is better Throttle responce.
Over the years I have cracker RR and all the problems associated were due to eithe rthe rocker comming loose or bending a pushrod. Sure the RR will require more maintanance but Ive gone over 50,000 mikles with no problem on them street driven. Hey the 93 5.0 Cobra came with RR Direct from ford
Randy N Connie
Registered User
The stock arms are just fine.But If you want to build the most efficient motor
you can.I would buy rocker arms that had bearings on the fulcrum shaft.
And I would want to buy a higher than stock ratio.
I have had good outcomes of just putting a higher rocker ratio on the exhaust
side,on small block fords,havent tried the SC motor yet.I would like to try
installing the 1.73 on intake side & 1.8 on the exhaust side.
And those rockers pictured above. Would need some machine work before I
would install them.They look nice,but a lot of aluminum needs machined off
,they look to be to heavy if your a racer.Be OK for making a street motor more efficient though.
Different rocker arm ratios from stock. Can and will change your power curve,without a cam change.
351w rocker fits
you can.I would buy rocker arms that had bearings on the fulcrum shaft.
And I would want to buy a higher than stock ratio.
I have had good outcomes of just putting a higher rocker ratio on the exhaust
side,on small block fords,havent tried the SC motor yet.I would like to try
installing the 1.73 on intake side & 1.8 on the exhaust side.
And those rockers pictured above. Would need some machine work before I
would install them.They look nice,but a lot of aluminum needs machined off
,they look to be to heavy if your a racer.Be OK for making a street motor more efficient though.
Different rocker arm ratios from stock. Can and will change your power curve,without a cam change.
351w rocker fits
Last edited:
fixemup257
Registered User
regarding prior rocker comment
Hey Dave. I am just curious. I was reading up on some forums on the roller rockers and discovered that you mentioned that the 5.0 rockers dont work on the 3.8. They do..i run them. I will say that the position of the roller and slightly off center which puts more pressure on the valve and roller, but all in all they work bud, but i did have to run a longer pushrod..no getting around that if anyone ever asks. It takes a 7.200 p-rod to keep near stock lift, and i would recommend chrome molley rods. But i just wanted to metion that to you, i figured you were saying they wouldnt work in regard that people shouldnt run them. Just wanted to give you a head up man...Later
Hey Dave. I am just curious. I was reading up on some forums on the roller rockers and discovered that you mentioned that the 5.0 rockers dont work on the 3.8. They do..i run them. I will say that the position of the roller and slightly off center which puts more pressure on the valve and roller, but all in all they work bud, but i did have to run a longer pushrod..no getting around that if anyone ever asks. It takes a 7.200 p-rod to keep near stock lift, and i would recommend chrome molley rods. But i just wanted to metion that to you, i figured you were saying they wouldnt work in regard that people shouldnt run them. Just wanted to give you a head up man...Later