harmonic Balancer

[kevin898]

Anyone know the price off the top of their heads, mine's pretty wobly.

[Tazer999]

$375 canadian for a ford one

Can't remember the bhg one

[Back n black bird]

i have one i will sell, its from a 1993 SC with 50,000kilometers.

[Active non member]

Virgil bought one lately and if i remember correctly he has a spare, Maybe?

[5thWaveSC]

This is a whole chapter in a book topic, the HB !
IN essence, it's the nemesis of our SC engine, lol!

Presently, without looking up the actual cost, I
had a Ford one put on and recall it being around
$500 Cdn plus labour...so u'er looking at bucks...

As a backup and future permanent solution, I
participated in the group buy on the BHJ final
solution (lol!) one...! Just arrived...with massive,
double thickness bolt to boot!!! Approaches $1Kcdn.

BHJ has a couple, supposedly, it now keeps in
inventory for the odd soul willing to go this route.
So, if you're interested, holler on the American
site to George...

Lots was hammered out on this topic, if it's still
available and not pushed off our limited 20 page
system on the American site if u care to check...

You guys HAVE TO get in the habit of printing off
such tech talk because many are/will lose interest
to repeat themselves, as I am here now doing!,
on repeat topics like this whenever they come up,
whether you need that topic at the time,
or not...

Anyway, for the last time: You DO NOT want to
remove and replace these suckers. Period. And
that's according to our Dr. Fred !
The HB is meant to be a one-time use animal,
according to him...
From my experience I agree: Those tolerances get
messed up once removed and you're at the mercy
of the gods if you put it back on because now
there's more play. And it's the play that will
create fracture fissures that ultimately fatigue
the metal, and it fails....put summarily !

Secondly, NEVER hammer it on!!! If you must risk
on/off scenarios: Do so ever so gingerly, like
handling a baby, or whatever image helps !!!!!

Anyway, have I addressed what you're after???

And PS: Once wobbly, once wobbly too many:
That means the next step IS breakage!!!
Peace, virgil

[Back n black bird]

Hmm don't worry about removal raj has swapped Harmonic Balancers quite a few times he told me and has never had a problem with them working properly after removal. He removed mine from the motor, with the special tool needed to do it.

[5thWaveSC]

Yeah, I know that: He stated it in that marathon
discussion we had for months on the American site!

BUT, Raj is Raj, and the rest of you aren't!

Secondly, he is not a Dr Fred, at least not yet!

Thirdly, being a unique Raj, he gingerly handled it
obviously but can't be assured permanence in
ultimate application success, can he? (Lol!)

[rksc90]

I smash mine on with a hammer,its fun , you should try it(and remove it with a crow-bar), done it like 10 times, since I paid several hundred dollars to have my engine balanced, the damper will not fall off, so I saved myself a grand

[markv]

When my HB went it cost me $1700! Woo! So you should get it replaced if you know it's kickin the bucket. Was talking to a guy at ford and he said I got off cheap with it going while I was driving.

It was the first time I ever had a repair where PARTS cost more than LABOUR . Scary stuff!

[5thWaveSC]

Raj, you character you...! Hey, though, on this
topic, if I may suggest (?) give thought to isolating
your humour or satire from reality, since these
guys aren't as gifted as you and don't really
get what you're toying with....(!)

[rksc90]

i do smash it with a hammer, but with a certain kind in a certain spot or it will deform, and I have removed it several times, and I guess the torque specs:D , everything is true, maybe not the crow-bar part:| , but only a complete idiot would try that, and he/she deserves a broken balancer if they are that dense:|

Disclaimer
" please take my advice as a joke, if it wrecks your stuff... SEND PICS!!!!ASAP assheads..at once"

[5thWaveSC]

Well, to add to that:
Handling of the HB is VERY critical, to the point,
that even my BHJ, which is a tank compared to
the factory one, includes an 8.5 x ll page on its
installation. WITH a disclaimer that if it's hammered,
kiss it good bye.... Under installation Step 2:

"DO NOT INSTALL THIS DAMPER WITH A HAMMER"

A special installation tool is available from them...

It WOULD be my opinion in no uncertain terms,
that whenever or wherever there has been even
a tightening of the crank bolt by any and all
mechanics, followed by premature HB failure,
KNOW in no uncertain terms, that it was CAUSED
by, said, same, sueable, mechanic (or neighbour,
or misinformed eager-beaver friend, mother inlaw,
and all other known do-gooders...lol!) Peace!

[rksc90]

big secret...shhhhh, I'd say over 50% are hammered on, but no-one ever says they are, some are impacted on, but no-one ever says that they are. Heres a biggie, 99% of the tires places impact lug-nuts on...guess what, no-one says they were, so unless a good friend/shop does it, or you do it yourself, or you watch them and know whats going on, or you will have no clue:D , happy motoring!!

I know it sends shivers, but it a scary place out there:|

P.S. Maaco doesnt really do a good a job as they say also. I was like OMG, when I first heard that, made me cry

[90LXdoughboy]

what is a "Harmonic Balancer"??????

[rksc90]

Ever heard of a harmonica...well it has nothing to do with the instrument, sorry, just fork out a grand for an upgraded one if yours ever blows(I mean IF!!!), thats if it turns your crank..hahaha

holy ~~~~~ I'm helpful today:D

[kevin898]

Well my crank bolt broke the other day (found it on the garage floor). Had a new one put in and I noticed the pully wobles now. I also noticed that once the boost gage reads 0 or higher, the car will feel like it misses a spark (only way I can describe it). It does it randomly and gets worse as the boost increases. My theory (and please correct me or suggest something else) is that because of the crank pully woble the jackshaft belt slips occasionally. Car feels like its bucking. This only happens in positive boost area (on the gage).

Kevin

[Tazer999]

Virgil: Where did you get $500 from Ford from? Its $375 from most ford places, even cheaper if you get a discount.

Get a friend at a local ford dealership, or if that fails, use 5 star ford and dan newman, or the guy from the sccoo

[Active non member]

This is a harmonic balancer bill, it is connected to the crank in the front of you engine. Its job is exactly as it is called. Without one your engine would vibrate to death.

http://www.pim.net/bestharmony.jpg

[90LXdoughboy]

cool thx

[5thWaveSC]

Hey, Taz, I'd have to find my invoice but best
I recall was the $500 was for the combo of
HB plus pulley assembly so that it was one new
integrated unit, as well as a new crank sensor
plus bolt, which are best at any such damage stage, to replace...

Now, whereas hammering ain't recommended,
here on our site "we" are discussing and informing ourselves, SO THAT we can demand in future of our mechanics, w h a t it is we both know of the product, and request they do, SO THAT we aren't stuck in Timbuk-tu with a broken down SC,
since according to Murphy's Law, these things never break down when at home in the convenience of our carports...lol!

And Raj, I believe in setting up working relationships
with key support personnel, who then get to know
"my" requirements, one of which is, NEVER use air
on my rims: Manual torqueing only! And because I
know when they did use air:
Car weight centeredness is lost when driving!!!
Becomes evident fast, especially because I
furthermore, get "performance alighnments" done,
attaining zero-state centered mass steering,
isolating thereby any and all mechanical deviations
from the ideal norm......

Lastly, we want our guys to demand care in playing
with the HB because the factory nose piece can't
handle the stresses of forced entry, like hammering,
and will accelerate wear plus breakdown. AND,
Dr Fred was sharing that from his greater experience
than yours, this is mandated, and 2ndly, a one-use
application. If u get more life than that. Great, but
quit playing dumb that the others will also...!!!
AND: I didn't because my mechanics were stupid
and lazy. But they won't do it again, now that
I know what I know. And I want the rest of our
troops likewise to know...!

Lastly, Bill, this prob is unique to supercharged
engines only. So go back to sleep, it doesn't
apply to your engine, u lucky guy...!!!

Peace, virgil

P: Anyone from Canada contemplating purchasing
"The Final Solution" HB from BHJ have to realize
they'll face U.S. exchange plus PST, GST, and
duty therein driving up the cost towards $700...!
But remember, it is a permanent fix !!!

[5thWaveSC]

Hey, Kev, from the little I'm gathering from what
you're sharing, it may not be the belts/pulleys
you're alluding to, but the actual nose piece of
the balancer being next to sheered or definetly
ready to call it quits: That's why the wobble...!!!

So, suggest you find someone u can trust, and
have the balancer pulled off and examine the nose
after cleaning it, looking for fractures and metal
fatigue PLUS any play whatsoever WHEN removing
it OR re-installing it...
Any of the above conditions warrant a new Balancer, period !!!

My dumb mechanics merely put on a new bolt
last year after detecting the wobble...lol!...and
with lock-tight (the idiot!!!), to have it last only
about 10K before it busted and needed towing,
yeah, when f a r away from home...lol!!!

Does that help or need we say more...? (Too bad
u didn't read the lengthy details to all of this stuff
we covered way back...! but now u'er getting the
essence of it!) Peace! -virgil

PS: Also, Kev, I and Raj left out the main cause to
this headache: Simplistically put, our engines were
not matured to finalization over the developmental
years, and in fact abandoned as we well know...
In that process, right from the start, due to the
excessive stress for our supercharged, high
performance engines, the collar to our harmonic
balancer was deliberately left "as a weak link" so
that further damage to the whole engine was
negated, with only failure of the balancer whenever
something was going amiss with all those stressors
whenever the engine was pushed towards its
tolerance limits, like whenever we drag, or launch
from a light, etc., etc,.... So that weak link in the
SC is the collar of the balancer. There is the prob..

Lucky for us, some experienced talent on the
American site, zeroed in on this weak link both from
an experience as to what the prob is, as well as,
to a better balancer. Hence, the BHJ solution.

[kevin898]

Thanks 5thwave, saw the posts about HBJ way back, but never looked at them...couldn't figure out what it was LOL. Yes, I think the HB monster has just paid me a visit. Thanks for all the info, I really appreciate you repeating all this again.

Kevin

[rksc90]

" Car weight centeredness is lost when driving!!!
Becomes evident fast, especially because I
furthermore, get "performance alighnments" done,
attaining zero-state centered mass steering,
isolating thereby any and all mechanical deviations
from the ideal norm......"

I wish I could have one of those done, sounds neato:rolleyes:
Could you post some specs please, I would like to see how far off norm you have deviated from the over engineered factory specs.


Heres a tip for those who dont feel like fixing the real problem why a balancer fails, drill 2 holes 180degrees apart, with the inner hub being tapped, and thread in a grade 8 bolt into each hole. Race cars etc. who do not want to upgrade from higher RPM use/abuse etc have used this method for years(depending on hub style:p ).

Or if you feel like relieving the stress on the damper, have the engine balanced and run under-drives, all cylinders have to be contributing equally also. Well at least I dont have to justify running out and buying a damper:) , it was done right the first time, not some band aid fix.

[5thWaveSC]

Raj, u lost me on the HB stuff... I think uer leaving
out (again!) stuff in uer head that the rest of the
gang just does not possess talent in: So please
give that consideration and realize they are not
u and will not accomplish your esoteric feats, lol!

Aside from our homegrown gang, look at our
non-descript mechanics... They're in the same
shoes!

Now, back to wheel alignments. Yeah, this is a topic
not as yet discussed, or should I write, hammered
on our airwaves. BUT, is just another pet topic
close to my heart. Because mechanics do one
lousy job of wheel alignments in our times. In all
locales, in all places, bar none...lol!!!

However, as I matured over the years, and lost
money to one bad alignment after another, the
mechanics are straddled with a limitation I must
give to their defence: They are not given enuf
time to do a proper alignment. Because the
consumer (AGAIN!) is too illiterate and just won't
pay more than the present stupid, ridiculous low
balled flat rate, that just can't give them enuf
time to address a car that may need more attention
than mere factory spec tweeking.....

Past cars I've owned needed shimming, just for
starters. And until I complained, wasn't advised
of such situations. On a car straight from the
factory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I had to fork out
to correct it!(!) Go figure!!!

Anyway, on our Birds, if I want what both I'm used
to, and know the car is capable of, I need to get
it to zero-state spec condish to start: That costs!
Thereafter, though, I return to the flat-rate
~~~~~~~~ grade 1 level alignments that then merely
keep it within those established specs!

I deal with one tire shop only. That way they know
my standards and keep them!
My car can tell the difference then, between air
bolt tightening because the car-weight-distribution
centre is thrown off by the rims themselves
contributing harmonic wave imbalance and the
car wanders, rather than drives a straight line.
The analogy is: It drives like a drunk whenever
they've used air!!!!!!
Do u follow that? Enuf said? Peace!

PS: Few shops in Vancouver have the new wheel
balancing computerized machine that places the
wheel under stress on the ideal rim position, so
that least road vibration is possible, aside from the
minimalist approach to only weight-balancing the
tires on the rims, a now outdated secondary role,
to this rim-wheel-harmonic balancing primary ideal!
Have that only on my car, since my wife is not
in the least, a performance driver.... Yeah, it all
costs "way" more!!!