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aviationstation
08-11-2004, 01:57 PM
Hello all,

The 9 year-old, 77k mile 95 SC 5 speed that I acquired last week has a few issues that I'd like clarification on, and a few items that need attention. It has been in a garage for 4 years, so much of the rubber was tight (sticking) & a few items were a little stiff (i.e. door hinges, trunk, etc), but overall it does not appear to be a bad car. Not having an owners manual makes this post necessary.

First, there is a button at the center of the roof/headliner, co-located with the moonroof controls. It is labeled AOS or a similar acronym. Any idea what it's for or what it does? It lights red when pressed. Second, the moonroof opens to the vent position, closes flush, and opens about 1/4 of the way back (3~4 inches). From what I gather from the posts to this site, it should open the entire distance. Is that correct?

Third. on the drive home yesteday the temp gauge rose to the "M" in NORM. The OAT was in the mid to upper 80's and I was in heavy traffic (SoCal San Diego, what's new). Do these cars run hot? This one has a new radiator, so I know its been hot (why else replaced the rad?).

Fourth. I'd like to install a lower temp t-stat. I think the OEM temp is 192~195. Any recommendations on a new one, 180 degree, etc?

Lastly, the car starts & runs good but the CEL comes on for the first 6~7 minutes of driving, then turns off. This happens whether or not the car is hot or cold. Does this sound like a weak O2 sensor (i.e. low voltage or slow getting up to operating temps). Once the CEL light goes off the car runs well. It hesitates under WOT or heavy load (say, 8~10 lbs boost), but no backfire/misfire like that of a lean condition. I'm going to code scan it this weekend, then check & replace every questionable vacuum line & possibly swap the plugs.

To that end, any idea where the fuel regulator vacuum line is located (or where the fuel reg itself is)?

Thanks very much. This forum has given me more info in 96 hours than I ever got from Ford over the 20 years I've owner their products!

M Randolph
in SoCal somewhere in Kali~fornia

-95 Thunderbird SC/5-Spd
-69 GTO 400/T400
-67 Chevelle SS 396/4-Spd
-66 Nova SS 283/T350
-57 Ford Fairlane 2 Dr H/T 312 SC

Darkside
08-13-2004, 01:44 AM
I thought the OEM thermstats were 220 degrees? The 92 to 95 SC's came with radiators with plastic endtanks, so they were prone to cracking. That's probably why yours was replaced. A 180 degree thermostat is a good mod to do also, keeps the car running cooler.

RichM
08-13-2004, 11:09 AM
I thought the OEM thermstats were 220 degrees? The 92 to 95 SC's came with radiators with plastic endtanks, so they were prone to cracking. That's probably why yours was replaced. A 180 degree thermostat is a good mod to do also, keeps the car running cooler.

OEM thermstat comes open at 195, Radiator fan turns on at 220.

Yes these cars run hot. Also the computer doesn't come out of "warm up" mode till the engine coolant temp reaches 180ish degrees.

aviationstation
08-13-2004, 12:07 PM
Darkside/RichM,

Thanks for the info. Seems to me that Ford opted to run the car hotter rather than use heated O2 sensors (unless they do on these cars). Either way, 195~200 is crazy when you've got a spinning huffer thet's also generating heat. I'll try the 180 t-stat swap & see if that helps. Any idea if the ECM can be reprogrammed to bring the fan on sooner, or if the temp sending unit can be swapped? I've done it on a tuned port SBC, but never on a Ford.

Thanks again!

M Randolph

007_SuperCoupe
08-13-2004, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the info. Seems to me that Ford opted to run the car hotter rather than use heated O2 sensors (unless they do on these cars). Either way, 195~200 is crazy when you've got a spinning huffer thet's also generating heat. I'll try the 180 t-stat swap & see if that helps. Any idea if the ECM can be reprogrammed to bring the fan on sooner, or if the temp sending unit can be swapped? I've done it on a tuned port SBC, but never on a Ford.

First off, welcome to SCCoA and congrats on the purchase. These cars are misunderstood by many and even Ford techs don't really know what's going on. That said, onto your particular issues. About running warm...yes these cars do tend to run on the warm side. There are several things that can be done to combat that though. First thing that I would do, is to clush the radiator, fill it with 25% antifreeze/75% distilled water and a bottle of water wetter. I recently did this to my '92 and am VERY happy with the results. The air dam is different on the '94-'95's and I think that they are better than the '89-'93 air dams, so you should be good there. Having a 5-speed you don't have to worry about the tranny cooler warming up the coolant. A 180* thermostat will also help greatly. I've got that as well on my '92. The only other thing that I would recommend is to at the very least put header wrap on your lower intercooler tube. It passes right next to the exhaust manifold and thus absorbs a great deal of radiant heat. I've done more and recommend it if you want to spend a little on the lower tube. (PM me if interested) Finally the EEC can be "tuned" to have the fan turn on at a lower temp. Right now the high speed fan turns on at 221*. That is insanely too hot! Unfortunately, there's really not a "tune" that can very easily be done. You've got to get the hardware and have a chip custom burned for your aplication. That will work best, and has the benefit of giving you a few more hp in the process. That will cost you around $350...They are available from several different vendors. Then if you're really into getting it cool no matter what the cost, you can get a griffin radiator or get one that is made my Mike38SC. I'd personally opt for the later option, but that's my opinion. They both are high quality radiators professionally made. This should give you enough to chew on for a while. Let me know if there is any more info that you want.

Oh yeah...The CEL and relatively rough running could have something to do with the EGR (if equiped...not sure if the 5-speeds were or not). Try to run the KOER test when the car is cool and you get the CEL...That will give you the proper code. Report back to the forums with the code...they are not always a "direct" correlation to what needs to be fixed.

sizemoremk
08-13-2004, 02:57 PM
another vote for egr.

I've had this happen before, acted as you descried...

BT Motorsports
08-13-2004, 03:51 PM
Welcome to the club. There is a group of us in the SoCal area that meet regularly 1 or 2 times a month some which are in the Diego area. Please stop by the SoCal chapter board to get acquainted with everyone. Our next planned event in Diego is Sept 24th at Qualcomm (www.racelegal.com).
As for the troubles you are having, please do pull codes before spending any money on parts. There are a multitude of possibilities that could be causing your issues. Regarding the Tstat, there are a few threads floating around here that have info about adding cool fan switches to turn the fans on sooner with lower temp Tstats. You will need to install these of the car will most likely run hotter, not cooler, a search should reveal a few of these posts. Lastly, join the SCCoA for $15 and it will get you access to the members only section and a wealth of information you have not yet seen. If I can be of any help, feel free to drop me a line.

Paul

aviationstation
08-23-2004, 02:18 PM
All,

Thanks for your replies & the great advice! I'd have to agree with 007_SuperCoupe that many people don't understand these vehicles. On the flip side, I (for one) can't understand why Ford would allow an engineer to call this vehicle well engineered. I'd have to say that I would rate an MG, the king of lousy auto engineering, as better than the TB SC in reliability. No, I don't own an MG or any other Eurotrash, I just use it as an example. This is not a bash to other owners, but rather thinking-out-loud on my part as I muse the issues that this model car has.

That being said, and the rant over, I've fixed a number of issues with the car:

1. The CEL, pinging and intermittent missing under partial boost or WOT was determined to be "partially" caused by the Cam Position Sensor.

2. That was replaced and, while there is no CEL, the car still missed at partial boost or WOT. The plugs were then changed with AutoLite Platinum gapped at .045. With the new plugs the car ran great when NOT under boost. Under boost it hesitated like Monica at a Clinton fundraiser. I opted to pull the plugs, re-gap at .054 & install new wires. Actually, I only regapped the driver side. The passenger side was too much for one day.

Plugs and wiresÖ What great fun this was!!!! Why is this information not in the Ford T-Bird brochure? Hmmmm. I've heard of the nightmare stories with plugs, but this was ridiculous. Even stock Chevy Monza's with the 350 SBC were easier (and you had to remove the engine mount!) to swap the plugs. Now, post plug/wire install, my hands look like 3 week old bananas. What's more, my exhaust manifolds smell like 20 minutes after the Hindenburg "landed."

Anyway, it runs better now. No major hesitation, just a little bit of a flat spot near the 3,5~4k RPM mark. Iím thinking it could be running a little lean (air leak, or TPS), but no codes yet. Iíll try the Voltmeter on the TPS & O2ís this weekend to see what I get.

3. Still some pinging, but I think the 180 T-stat will reduce that a little more.

4. Removed the upper IC tube to install the new plug/wires for jug #4. Reinstalled the IC tube using Copper RTV, checked for leaks using propane w/no rpm change. Good seal.

5. Haven't found the fuel filter yet but when I do I'll replace it.

6. Thinking about hard-wiring the fan with a one-way diode to keep the voltage one-way and force it to say on when the key is on. I did this with a 1990 IROC & it kept the car cool everyday with no problems.

FYI this was delivered new to AZ. It passes all CA visual inspections and running emissions tests. If also has a federally mandated EGR (ref: EPA 40 CFR Part ##, 1994), so I donít think youíll find a 94/95 without one. I can't think of too many states that sell vehicles (post 1993) without an EGR, but I could be wrong. In any case, it appears to open & close OK using an avionics vacuum pump to test it.

Otherwise, it's a pretty neat car. Just a damn shame that there are so many hoops to jump through just to get the quirks out.

Thanks to you all for the great feedback. This site and all of you that contribute your expertise to it, is truly a blessing to those that are SOL when it comes to support from Ford.

Respectfully,

M Randolph
in SoCal somewhere in Kali~fornia

-95 Thunderbird SC/5-Spd
-69 GTO 400/T400
-67 Chevelle SS 396/4-Spd
-66 Nova SS 283/T350
-57 Ford Fairlane 2 Dr H/T 312 SC

joshbea6
08-23-2004, 02:50 PM
First off, welcome to the SCCoA!

Second....I have to say.....DAMN....Nice car collection.

On the moonroof question that you asked...ideally the moonroof is supposed to retract almost the entire way back to the point where you can see the handle of the inner roof liner (about 2 inches of glass/ liner showing). So that could be several things, not enough lube in the tracks of the moonroof, or a possible faulty motor.

As for the switch that lights up, I have absolutely no idea.

Finally, just my .02. Make sure to double check the head gaskets. Anyone on the board will tell you that Super Coupes are NOTORIOUS for blowing head gaskets.

Hope this helps,

Josh

aviationstation
08-23-2004, 04:50 PM
Josh,

Thanks for the info. I've done a few sets of H/G's on Taurus's (3.8L) and others, so I'd expect it to happen if it had not already been done by the previous owner under the Ford TSB.

I forgot to mention that the moonroof sliding issue was because a screw had loosened at the pass side & a small latch assy fell into the tracks, keeping the entire assembly from sliding all the way back. I have since fixed it & lubed the heck out out of it with assembly lube. On the downside, I did crack the pivot assy on the driver side front attempting to loosen a screw. The good news is that ASC has all of the parts, so I'll just replace it rather than wait for it to crack some more.

Sadly, the car collection is more of a financial thing than what I could expect to realisticly keep. In all, I'll probably keep one (maybe two) depending on the surplus $$ when all the resto items are done. It's great to save real American iron, though, & I'm always looking for more. If you know of any 69/70 Mustang Fastbacks let me know! :)

Thanks for the reply..

M Randolph
in SoCal somewhere in Kali~fornia

-95 Thunderbird SC/5-Spd
-69 GTO 400/T400
-67 Chevelle SS 396/4-Spd
-66 Nova SS 283/T350
-57 Ford Fairlane 2 Dr H/T 312 SC

SCMakeiv
08-23-2004, 05:35 PM
i found a post explaining what the light up button is for on the sunroof...

"i have this button on my 90 SC. took me a while to figure it out too. when the button is on (pushed in), when the sunroof is open or on vent mode, and the car is shut off, the sunroof will close by itself. when the button is off (out) the sunroof will stay open when the car is turned off. if it doesnt do this it might be busted. thats basically it. hope it helps."

just thought i would pass the post..;) Brett