pull the engine? timing cover work

kwikcoupe

Registered User
So my totally babied 90 SC had a bad summer. Shes a black on black with 89000 miles on it. I got it with 67000 miles. Its been garaged everyday of its life and have service checkups frequently. Well this summer on my way back from newport washingtonto everett she overheated. i caught it before it entered the red but I think it did its damage anyway. Im afraid to run it again for long periods until I figure out exactly what wrong with her. Theres no signs of Hg being blown as theres no foam in the oil. It started to leak oil and coolant after the overheat but i cant tell where from. i thought it was the valve covers. Nope. Its some place south of that. The front of the engine is pretty wet to say the least.

The car has run cold since the day i got her. It rarely registered on the temp gauge but it did move occasionally. i thought it was a sending unit or t-stat or the gauge at first. i replaced the t-stat and that changed nothing. I noticed that the SC was a little low and has a small leak.

Ive been told its probably the front timing cover. So the question is is it worth the hassle to change it in the car or just pull the motor? Is the best gasket to use a ford gasket? Since Im doing all this work sincve i just do the HG anyway? If I do both the HG and the front timing cover Ill pull the motor and giveit a thorough rebuild.

If I do rebuild the motor, I know the crank is forged but are the rods and pistons also? Ive heard that the 3.8 is a 5.0 minus the last 2 cylinders. Ford used forged internals in there early 90,s 5.0. So should I rebuild with stock internals and new clevite bearings or go with something aftermarket?

My goals for the car is to be in the 12 club eventually. currently my accord is faster than the tbird and i want to fix this. I was reading about the 4.2l stroker swap and am interested in that except for the crank issues. I dont mind sending my heads for work as long as the benfits are there in the long run. How much power does the 4.2l stroker kit with the 3.8l heads and intake and all make? Is it as reliable as the 3.8l sc all things concidered?

It pains me to see my baby parked. Id like to get her back on the road by spring in top fashion.

Also off topic but I have another question. MN12 performance is offering a T5 tranny conversion kit for th SC. if the T5 fits from a mustang and the mustangs have a T56 conversion kit. is there anyway to mix the 2 kits and make a 6 speed SC? Id really love to have one of those.

I have a passanger door window that has come separated from the rollling mechanism. What i mean to say is that the glass is no longer attatched to the roller upper and downer thing. Ive tried various fixes and none have worked. Has this happened to anyone else? How did you fix it. Sorry for the long post but Im not here much and have alot to learn. thanks Mike :D
 
First things first.....

I know you are probably thinking that there has been some sort of catastrophic failure that caused the overheating, but start with the simple stuff first.... Check your hoses for leaks, espcially the small "U-shaped" bypass hose at the thermostat, and make sure the thermostat is functioning. If it began running hot at highway speeds, it is probably not related to a failure in the electric fan, but its worth checking anyway. Also, you may want to take a look to see that the radiator airflow isn't obstructed. A piece of paper or plastic bag on the road can get stuck to the front of the radiator and cause it to overheat. If none of these "easy" things are the cause, then you may want to start thinking about the waterpump. There is a weephole on the shaft casing that will leak coolant when the bearings go bad. You should be able to identify that leak with the engine at idle and at temp. Changing the waterpump isn't too bad if you are handy with tools and have a place to do it. Almost any cause of overheating will get the front of the engine wet, but the oil leak is a little unusual. There is an oil-cooler that has radiator coolant flowing through it (the oil filter attaches to the cooler). It could be that the hot antifreeze is washing some old oil deposits off the engine... Or, it could be something major causing the problem.

Basically, check the easy stuff first, you'll find the problem 90% of the time.
 
In addition to what LJ said;
Assuming the car RUNS normal and it's just the running warm and the dirty mess that has you concerned, it could just be the timing cover itself is leaking. Doesn't the TC Cover itself have oil and water running through? Maybe you lost a little water out of the bad gasket which caused it to get hot and make it leak even worse. You don't need to pull the engine to replace the TC Cover, but if you are worried about the water pump, replace it as it has to come off anyways to get to the cover and they aren't that much $$. You will need to pull the P/S Pump Pulley off with a puller tool, but that is easy.

As far as the window goes; Pull the door panel off, pull the top rubber trim that runs along the top of the door panel (Where the window rides against), pull SOME of the plastic vapor barrier off from the bottom to allow access to the bottom of the door glass. The window comes out at an angle and the back of it first. Take out the plastic piece by loosening the one nut and take it to your local window glass place and see if they sell a "Universal Kit" for mounting automotive window glass (Show them yours), it is adjustable aluminum and the stock plastic ones broke on my car. Shouldn't cost more than $10. Don't forget you will need some quality adhesive to help hold/cushion it into place on the glass holder or else it will eventually slip back out. Let your window glass place recommend the best stuff for glass as caulking will not work (for long anyways). DONT overtighten the small Allen screw when installing the new clamps as it is there just to help hold in place until adhesive is cured and overtightening will crack the window. Roll window all the way up into place and let it stay there for 24-48 hours to let the adhesive cure. This is really easy job assuming you don't drop your window. Mine is fixed, but now the plastic gear that goes on the motor is shreaded. MN12P has the kit for the gear for $25. This will be a worse job than the window clamps. Good luck on the TC gasket...
 
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BobGPz said:
In addition to what LJ said;
Assuming the car RUNS normal and it's just the running warm and the dirty mess that has you concerned, it could just be the timing cover itself is leaking. Doesn't the TC Cover itself have oil and water running through? Maybe you lost a little water out of the bad gasket which caused it to get hot and make it leak even worse. You don't need to pull the engine to replace the TC Cover, but if you are worried about the water pump, replace it as it has to come off anyways to get to the cover and they aren't that much $$. You will need to pull the P/S Pump Pulley off with a puller tool, but that is easy.

As far as the window goes; Pull the door panel off, pull the top rubber trim that runs along the top of the door panel (Where the window rides against), pull SOME of the plastic vapor barrier off from the bottom to allow access to the bottom of the door glass. The window comes out at an angle and the back of it first. Take out the plastic piece by loosening the one nut and take it to your local window glass place and see if they sell a "Universal Kit" for mounting automotive window glass (Show them yours), it is adjustable aluminum and the stock plastic ones broke on my car. Shouldn't cost more than $10. Don't forget you will need some quality adhesive to help hold/cushion it into place on the glass holder or else it will eventually slip back out. Let your window glass place recommend the best stuff for glass as caulking will not work (for long anyways). DONT overtighten the small Allen screw when installing the new clamps as it is there just to help hold in place until adhesive is cured and overtightening will crack the window. Roll window all the way up into place and let it stay there for 24-48 hours to let the adhesive cure. This is really easy job assuming you don't drop your window. Mine is fixed, but now the plastic gear that goes on the motor is shreaded. MN12P has the kit for the gear for $25. This will be a worse job than the window clamps. Good luck on the TC gasket...
well the car runs great. feels strong and doesnt act like a normal HG failure. The coolant is going someplace but cant tell from where even after i washed the engine. It goes through about a quart of oil every 1000 miles and its not burning it. When the car overheated, I pulled over to see that it looked as though the antifreeze shot out of the reservior. There was little to no antifreeze in the system and my engine was covered with tiny greasy spots. Very hard to get off without a steam cleaner. I read a post saying that if cooant ever gets to the bearings there toast. Should I change those?

About the PS pump. i replaced mine a few years ago because it sounded loud. The one I put on was a reman as ford wanted 500 for there rem. The one I put on was louder than the one i took off. I know ford has loud pumps but is there some way to get a quiet one. I mean they didnt sell these cars new with that loud of a pump did they? I have a chiltons manual. isd there an online sourse for downloading the dealer service manual?
 
Some more things to check for leaks

Here's some more suggestions for other checks;

Is the floor carpet wet (leaking heater core)?

Drain radiator and pull vacuum to determine if system is leaking.

The external heater core plumbing hose clamps (not crimps) have a t-staple that over time cuts through hose (keeps clamp from spinning) and leaks in these places; Heat core return line (passenger side front top of engine), engine oil cooler ( in & out), water pump feed to heater core (water pump left side hose).

Use a small mirror with the engine OFF after it's warmed up to look for signs of leaks...also check weep hole on bottom of water pump snout (sign of water pump seal going)

Have radiator cap pressure tested.
 
thanks for all the ideas. The water pump and power steering pump where both replaced at the same time less than 10k miles ago. Ill check all those things. No the floor is not wet although I think the heater core may be going as i experience the intermittent heating on a cool day described in the FAQ board. I didnt think to pull vacum on the system. thanks. is that done with a certain tester or will a vacuum tester work? Im sure i can rent one for a few hours for cheap anyway.

Im thinking its the timing cover. But from what Ive read it sounds a little involved while the engine is still in the car. Do you reallyu have to pull the oil pan and dizzy? Oh wait I dont have a dizzy. Ive pulled the pan once when I had an unfortunate rock experience and I dont want to do that again. Not in the car anyway. How long does it take to pull one of these engines. Im good with tools and am very mechanically inclined. Anyone want to help in washington state?
 
kwikcoupe said:
No the floor is not wet although I think the heater core may be going as i experience the intermittent heating on a cool day described in the FAQ board........ Anyone want to help in washington state?

Intermittent heating is a good sig of air in the cooling system. 10 guys will have different "Correct Ways" to properly fill the SC cooling system. Don't forget to have the heater on hot while filling the cooling system and also don't forget to fill the 9/16" bolt/plug in front/right of the SC. That is the highest point of the engine as to get all the air out.

I'm in Washington and can help if you aren't too far away. What is your location? Close to Vancouver/Portland? Also the www.SCCOW.com is all us Washington Birds'.
 
A suggestion on the noisy PS Pump....

My PS pump used to whine so I drained the reservoir and filled it with synthetic ps fluid. Much quieter now.
 
This sounds similar to when my headgasket blew. Coolant was forced out of the top of my coolant overflow tank and there were oil spots all over the inside of the tank. When it happened, I was lucky and no coolant got into the crankcase. I was not low on oil, but maybe that is because I caught it right after the coolant came out of the overflow. There were also air bubbles in the overflow tank when it happened and it idled a little rough.
 
Reply to questions

The vacuum tester I use is for radiators;AIRLIFT II (www.uview.com) manufactered by UVIEW Utlraviolet Systems Inc. or find it at http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/manufacturers-uview---hawkeye.html, http://www.arizonatools.com/catalog/browse/3586-3631-3296-3299/, http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/UV-550500.html

The timing chain cover can be pulled without droping the oil pan (on 1990's). You do need to pull the power steering pump pulley (Harbor Freight has a cheap puller/installer [$20] that works). Remember there's an allen bolt (6mm) below the oil pump and above the oil pan in the lower right corner.
 
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