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View Full Version : Shoehorning in a 460ci



Kirk Bryan
09-12-2004, 03:01 PM
I heard that someone has done this? Anybody know?

Brandon
09-12-2004, 03:11 PM
I heard that someone has done this? Anybody know?

Ask ProStreetRich or Scott Long about this setup.

gldiii
09-12-2004, 03:31 PM
Do a quick search on "460 and swap". There is a lot of info like in this post:

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24509&highlight=460+swap

pro street rich
09-12-2004, 07:57 PM
These thing's fit like Ford had a plan to do it themselfs. You can work on them and even change a water pump in a parking lot with simple tools in less than two hours on a hot engine..
You will need a "cobra R" hood to do the swap, of a big scoop of some kind..
If you need any info, give me a hit and I will help you.......Rich

gunnspeed
09-12-2004, 11:56 PM
I've finally got one of my 429 blocks sitting in mine - (bare block with pan, heads, valve covers, and bare C-6 attached) - and I did take pics along the way. If you like, I can post them. Rich is right.....the fit is nice, with the exception of hood clearance. Oh, and fabricating the LH header is bound be a memorable event when I get to it.

mannysc
09-13-2004, 01:09 PM
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/6721/200433284xmnubd_ph.jpg Rich is my Idol how about a 428 cj have one sitting here hmm maybe add a blower so its a sc

Kirk Bryan
09-13-2004, 01:18 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

Rich,
Thanks for the offer. I will be pm'ing you to discuss. I started my own research about a month ago, but why re-invent the wheel. You have already perfected it.

I think someone needs to wedge a true 'Cammer' into an SC. That would be sweet.

pro street rich
09-13-2004, 02:55 PM
We all knew that any small block would fit. This is a given. So then we started to see what else would fit WITHOUT a cutting torch. The "FE" engines fit as well, maybe even a bit better. The price of these in race form is high. Then it was time for the fun stuff from the toy box... The Boss 429 would go in, but the master had to go as well as a bit of rebuilding on the towers to get the valve covers on, so that was out. The 427"SOHC" was also a good fit till you added the valve covers as well. THis was even more tighter than the Boss 429.
So there you have it, the "what will,will not" fit for the MN12 body...
One thing, the 427 style engine is lower and it does make the hood issue less of a deal............Rich

Kirk Bryan
09-13-2004, 09:05 PM
If I could get my hands on a 427 SOHC, That would be in car so fast...no valve covers...WAIT A MINUTE!!! I just thought about it. How do you know a 427 SOHC fits in!!! Do you have one?? Um...where do you live?? Do you lock your doors at night? That is a rare engine. Congrats if you do have one. Looking to sell?????????? :D

Is there anyway I can do a manual transmission? I love manual and have to have it.

Are you messing about with an FI setup yet?

Where can I find info on this K-member?

So many questions...so little time.

Thanks

MarksM
09-13-2004, 11:23 PM
Is there anyway I can do a manual transmission? I love manual and have to have it.


Certainly, with McLeod's modular bellhousing line.
http://www.mcleodind.com/catalog_htm/PAGE7.HTM

sizemoremk
09-14-2004, 12:41 AM
We all knew that any small block would fit. This is a given. So then we started to see what else would fit WITHOUT a cutting torch. The "FE" engines fit as well, maybe even a bit better. The price of these in race form is high. Then it was time for the fun stuff from the toy box... The Boss 429 would go in, but the master had to go as well as a bit of rebuilding on the towers to get the valve covers on, so that was out. The 427"SOHC" was also a good fit till you added the valve covers as well. THis was even more tighter than the Boss 429.
So there you have it, the "what will,will not" fit for the MN12 body...
One thing, the 427 style engine is lower and it does make the hood issue less of a deal............Rich

Are you saying that the regular 427 engine can fit under a stock hood?

I would like as many pics of the swap as you care to send or post.

I am more curious about motor mounts as well. How did you bolt it down?

Thanks!

90SC BIG BLOCK
10-09-2004, 08:26 PM
I've finally got one of my 429 blocks sitting in mine - (bare block with pan, heads, valve covers, and bare C-6 attached) - and I did take pics along the way. If you like, I can post them. Rich is right.....the fit is nice, with the exception of hood clearance. Oh, and fabricating the LH header is bound be a memorable event when I get to it.were you able to keep the ABS and ride control like I was, and did you have to change heater cores lines or is there a different one I can use.

pro street rich
10-09-2004, 10:40 PM
Can you keep the ride control---- :) YES. how about the "abs"---- :) YES, "IF" you off set the engine to the right of the center by about one inch....Heater-------- :) YES if you give the tubes a bit of a helping hand and bend them just a bit....Will a 427 med riser fit with a stock hood,---- :mad: NO The carb will still be a issue, unless you go with a "dry sump" and a new "K" member... :confused: Now a "low riser" with the flat manifold should work, but I never tried it to be sure. These darn "427's" have gotten so $$$$$$$$ that it is just plain smarter to do a 429-460 style engine.... :eek: Do I lock my door at night----YES--- and I have a 150 pound watch dog to be sure that it stays locked....LOL... :mad: and NO there are no 427's being sold at this time, of any kind....Where to get a "K" member--- :rolleyes: get a hold of Randy Baker, he has a line on them, but they are not the best for every day driving, or so the story goes....
I hope this helps you guys out some, sorry that it took so long to answer, but it has been crazy around here.......Rich

BikerSC
10-10-2004, 12:14 AM
...and NO there are no 427's being sold at this time, of any kind...

Shelby is making them. I am not sure how easy they are to get, but I am sure you can get one somehow.

-Steve

392Bird
10-10-2004, 09:21 AM
2 years ago I went through the thought process on deciding what I wanted to do with my Bird. I was planing on it being used equally for Street, Strip, and Show. I decided on a bored/stroked 351, to 393, and a built AOD. Looking back, and seeing that I am headed towards 70% Strip, 20% Show, and 10% Street, I would of built it differently. I would have used a built 460 with a built Powerglide. I guess it is time for a 2nd project car :)

Darkside
10-10-2004, 10:41 AM
What about a 351 stroked to 427? Big blocks are too heavy I would think. A turbo'd or SC'd 347 will handle the majority of big blocks out there.

392Bird
10-10-2004, 11:20 AM
With the torque and HP of the big block, you can get by using the much stronger built and lighter Powerglide to make up for the weight. Then add a turbo and back half it, and look for numbers well into the 8s. My buddy has a built NA 460 in his 86 Bird, and turns 9s with full interior including power windows, seats, and sound. When running at the local 1/8 mile strip, he just pulls off the slicks, and drives it home at the end of the day.

pro street rich
10-10-2004, 12:09 PM
They fit right in, sure they weigh a bit more, but they are strong and even the stock shifter can still be used....This is what I have put in all of the ones that I have done. You can get everything on them that you can on a powerglide as well... :confused: Just food for those thinking about this...
Now as for shelby's 427, like I said, they are VERY$$$$$$$$$$ :eek: :eek: This is why I went to the 385 series engines. They are eazy to build, seem to last even if you do beat them, and you still have a lot of $$$ left in your pocket when the job is done. Oh there is one more thing, they do make a lot of go, even in a mild form you can get over 500 to the rear wheels :) :) :) , I know this for a fact..........Rich :D :D :D

392Bird
10-10-2004, 03:55 PM
A C6 is a lot heavier transmission, and with the horse power per pound it would be if built to, it would be good enough to not benefit from the added gear the C6 would have over the Glide. I also think both the C4 and Powerglide have less lose through them than the C6. Factory stock, the C6 is the stronger of them, but built it is another story.

Next Spring I will be adding some boost to my stroker, so will most likely go with a built C4 to maintain some street-ability, and drop another 70 lbs. I figure the lighter weight of the C4 will make up for the weight I add. If it was going to be strip only, I would be going to a Glide with the added power. My Brother-in-law runs a Roadster in several classes in both IHRA and NHRA running in the 6s, and uses a Glide that gets freshened up each year. It has never broke.

This is a shot of one of his back up engines for it.

http://members.tccoa.com/392bird/431winsor2x4.jpg

sizemoremk
10-10-2004, 09:20 PM
Here is a big block for ya!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7925939185&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWN%3AMT%3A1

pro street rich
10-10-2004, 09:37 PM
While the 428's were great engines as they were made, they would NEVER hold up to the high rev's that their fellow "FE" brothers. They have a very long stroke,3.98 which made a lot of "stump pulling power".They were never made to be great race engines. Now I know that someone will jump in here and tell me about how the "CJ" 68-1/2 Mustangs cleaned up at the winter nat's. Also don't forget how many "SCJ" mustangs kicked butt as well. But the bottom line is that the stroke was too long for a high revving, long living horse power.
Yes if you stroke the 460's you get the same trouble, but they are built a bit stronger to take it. They also have a bigger bore to start with which gives you the added size....
If you are going to build a "FE" then do it with a 427 and really have something that will put out............Rich

ThunderBird 94
10-14-2004, 01:56 PM
Hey Pro Street Rich,Is there any possible why to get some sort of drawing for the 460 motor mount adapter and trans adpt. for C-6. Thanks

David Neibert
10-14-2004, 02:04 PM
A turbo'd or SC'd 347 will handle the majority of big blocks out there.

I'm thinking the same thing.

David

pro street rich
10-14-2004, 02:44 PM
I will be looking at pulling out a set of mounts sometime soon. At that time I will draw up or do some good pic's of them for you... :eek: :eek:
Dave, you are right, most tubro 347's will kick some good butt. Now just think if the big block is built, or on the bottle??? There is always someone faster, :confused: but at what cost???? That has always been the ?? of the day... I like my big blocks because they are eazy to work on AND they are eazy to tune.. No tricks here, just plain brute horsepower.... Sure the gas milage SUCKS, but the look on the driver of the "ZO6" is " PRICELESS" :) :) That's all I got to say......Rich :) :) :)

Kirk Bryan
10-14-2004, 03:36 PM
Now just think if the big block is built, or on the bottle???

Here, here...I'll drink to that.

Rich, would you make me a set of mounts? How much? I might be going with a k-member though.

Thanks.

ThunderBird 94
10-14-2004, 03:37 PM
how much power can thease mounts handle,and have you taken your Bird to the drag strip.how much would it be for mounts. :)

mannysc
10-14-2004, 04:11 PM
I have a guy who wants to race you in your car with the better engine.here is a picture of his mostly stock 428cjhttp://www.mustangmods.com/data/6721/200433284xmnubd_ph.jpg

pro street rich
10-14-2004, 05:10 PM
how much power can thease mounts handle,and have you taken your Bird to the drag strip.how much would it be for mounts. :)
Put it this way, they are stronger than the stock frame that you hook them to. They are made from 1/4 " steel and are a three sided design. As for the track or the power output, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: lets just say,"I am VERY happy as to all the power". :D
Yes maybe I should go to Washington D.C. and get a job, :D but the power of some of the big blocks around here are way up on the scale.... Lets just say that there is always someone faster, but he has not been around my door for some time now. Maybe he lost his way..... :p :p
Manny, bring on that "FE", what body is it in?? no matter, bring it on over and I can have some fun...........Rich

mannysc
10-15-2004, 10:13 AM
we just may he likes your 460 idea but says he would like to run against you its in a 68 torino and turns high 11s without n/20we just installed a under manifold port injected setup but have not tried it out yet . he also has a 90 tbird and wants to drop a 460 in it . Ill try to get him to post here . hes not a computer type guy .

90SC BIG BLOCK
11-09-2004, 03:32 AM
Sorry I haven't writen back in a while,but I had to get the 460 in my SC . Putting the trany and engine in at once wasn't hard ,but the motor mounts made by this dum-*** GM guy is seating me back ,so I'm gonna shave and trim the mounts my self .The AC compesor is the only thing left to get mounted .It did go until the engine shifted ,broke stuff,and stoped this bird-of-pray in it's tracks .I'll send pictures as soon as possible. Oh, just a side note, I was able to get the hood down with carb. hat.

tim
11-09-2004, 06:14 AM
Rich is sand bagging. If he runs up against a fe he has a few fasts ones too. I dont think a 1968 torino is going to get the job done.

mannysc
11-09-2004, 02:13 PM
Rich is sand bagging. If he runs up against a fe he has a few fasts ones too. I dont think a 1968 torino is going to get the job done.


It runs mid 11s off the bottle.