IC questions

[hytorksc]

i was just trying to figure out why the SC, when heat soaked seems to get sluggish in acceleration and response.

Is it true that when the IC is heat soaked, application of power (hard acceleration) will result in even higher intake temps, yielding less power output than a normally aspirated motor of equal power?

An n/a motor with equivalent hp is not boosted, but will put out more power than our motors in hot weather because intake air temps are not rising due to boost pressure and IC heat soak (?).

And then add the effects of the lower IC tube running beside the header and even more timing retard by the IAT sensor.

Can the experts here clarify my thinking on this?

thanks-

[hytorksc]

no one understands what i'm asking??

Is the SC generally slower when the IC is heat soaked than n/a cars of equal power output in the same hot weather?

i figure that this is true, but i just want to get other
opinions, experiences- anyone interject please...

[stubbs]

You are absolutely correct, that principle is true on any Forced Induction car, some of the import guys are now actually running a nitrous bar to the front of the IC and spraying just to lower the IC temps, I'm not sure how well it works but it is an intresting concept.

[hytorksc]

thanks for responding-

So, based on what i read in an article from smokemup.com, for a 60 degree increase in intake air temp, there is a loss of about 40 hp. and that also would mean the difference between winter and summer driving with ambient temps ranging from 20 to 100 degrees could either add or subtract an average of 50 hp from the SC.

sounds like i need to get that lower IC tube off the header and setup an aggressive IC cooling system including a better IC (maybe a double IC with dual pusher/puller fans and a water spray system controlled by an electronic thermostat?) nah...

there's got to be a better way to consistently keep the IAT's cool.

[hytorksc]

you know instead of going the cheap complicated route, i should just spring for the AR with a front mount IC and be done with it. that setup will average at least 350 rwhp i think (with stock components). and then i can port the stock heads or get steigs for alot more hp.

the SC is such an engineering nightmare...

[stubbs]

I myself am going to go with that huge front mount IC, it's 1400 bucks but well spent money, it reroutes the IC tubes away from the headers. Simply put, you can't go wrong when you upgrade ANY cooling system in your car. The double IC is better than the stock IC but its depth makes the rear less efficient as the air passing through gets pretty hot by the time it reaches the back.

[hytorksc]

if i go front mount that means i will have to get the griffin radiator to help offset the loss of air flow over the stock radiator. i currently don't have any engine cooling issues, but with that FMIC, i have a feeling i will. a robert shaw therm. will help with that too. i was even thinking of converting to evans npg+ coolant (not water based).

any major change you do to improve one thing will result in a host of other problems that have to be addressed because of this change.

[David Neibert]

you know instead of going the cheap complicated route, i should just spring for the AR with a front mount IC and be done with it. that setup will average at least 350 rwhp i think (with stock components). and then i can port the stock heads or get steigs for alot more hp.

the SC is such an engineering nightmare...

I would guess that setup will yeild close to 300 rwhp, because Dave D. had the same two parts on his SWB SC and it pulled 288 rwhp. Probably would have made more with bigger injectors/fuel pump, but I don't think it would make 350 rwhp without doing some work on the heads or installing a more agressive cam.

It's not an engineering nightmare...actually the car was very much ahead of it's time back in the late 80s early 90s.

David

[stubbs]

Be careful when swapping coolants. Coolant does a lot more than cool. It also inhibites rust and most importantly contains additives that lubricate the seals and bearings in the coolant system. I have seen some scary stuff when looking at what some customers have done in search of better cooling. Most of the coolant changes/upgrades are "snake oil". Some may work but I haven't seen one yet, but I have seen many totally destroy water pumps and lead to faster head gasket failure on cars with iron blocks and aluminium heads. I am also dropping in the Griffon as my first mod when I pick up my SC next month, the head gasket was just replaced and I want the new one to last as long as possible, so a radiator and headers are my first installs. But the bigger IC is going in before the blower upgrade for sure.

[Micahdogg]

David, actually if memory serves me correct, I think the 2.2L whipple on SWB with just exhaust and IC made 288rwhp and 388rwt. But the 1.7L on whatever car Dave used made 294rwhp and 382rwtq with just exhaust and IC mods. So it looks like just exhaust, IC, cone filter, C&L MAF w/ 42lb tube, 42lb injectors + 255lph pump would be enough to clear 300RWHP.

With a tune you should fall in the 300-325rw range. Heads and cam would offer a huge increase, but if you wanted to pick up underdrives and do some other bolt ons I'm sure 350rw could be achieved without touching the longblock.

Micah

[hytorksc]

Dave Neibert-
It's not an engineering nightmare...actually the car was very much ahead of it's time back in the late 80s early 90s.
i was just frustrated. i know the SC is really not a nightmare- back when Ford designed the car i'm sure they never intended to make it run over 210 hp to begin with. i'm pretty sure they assessed that it was not necessary for them to design a real good IC setup (or maybe they didn't know how to at the time), and they were minimizing costs i'm sure.

it's just so darn hard to update this car to today's standards. but it's worth it to me indeed- i love this car. i wouldn't keep posting here if i really thought the SC was not awesome. With all the new power options coming up for the SC- in the end it will be a car to be feared...

[darriantbird]

if i go front mount that means i will have to get the griffin radiator to help offset the loss of air flow over the stock radiator. i currently don't have any engine cooling issues, but with that FMIC, i have a feeling i will. a robert shaw therm. will help with that too. i was even thinking of converting to evans npg+ coolant (not water based).

any major change you do to improve one thing will result in a host of other problems that have to be addressed because of this change.


I looked into the npg coolant route last year and found you need to do a lot of modification to the coolant system to get any benift for our cars. :(

[hytorksc]

i'll stay away from the npg coolant. thanks again guys.

[David Neibert]

David, actually if memory serves me correct, I think the 2.2L whipple on SWB with just exhaust and IC made 288rwhp and 388rwt. But the 1.7L on whatever car Dave used made 294rwhp and 382rwtq with just exhaust and IC mods.

Micah,

I stand corrected....now that you mention it, I do recall Dave saying that it was Gary's 2.2 whipple blower when he brought the SWB to one of the TBU meets. He didn't have the 1.7 AR installed until the Hot Rod power tour.

David