Port Plates,(Finally talked with scott)

[v8killr]

And he said that he hasn't been sent a head to try to make these.He said he tried to call the person that started all this(sorry forgot his name)and he said that he would have to go buy a used head and when he did he would send it to him.Well all this time has passed and he gave up on it because he never got back it touch with him.I then started to talk with him about doing the job and about this site and all these people that want them.
He seems to think they can be made,he said they have been making them for some time now and they made a set back in the 80's for a 4cy that went into a pinto.He said he would give try to make them for us we just need to send him a (1) head.He said he would prefer if had the valves and stock equipment on it but it don't matter if it's warped or not it don't have to be a perfect head.

So if someone out there has a extra junk head they could part with and can swing the shipping to him please ship it to him and i will let him know it's on the way.I really didn't want to get this involved with this since i don't know him and really don't know anything about this part but i will try to take it from here if someone can send him the head.He said this is the best time to send it because they are starting to slow down and he'll have more time to mess with all the forms he would have to make.I don't know how long this would take or a price because i didn't get that deep into it with him but i'm thinking around $150.00 bucks because that's a price he through out there.

He ask how many people would be interested and told him how many people responded to this thread and it got his attention,so i don't think he will blow this job off as alot of the other vendors do , he seemed like a pretty nice guy.
LMK if someone plans on sending this head to him i told him i would call him tomorrow with a answer

[Darkside]

I have a N/A head I could send him. I think the ports are the same although I will have to go and check. Let me know if that would work.

[v8killr]

I think they are the same but i'm not sure either.I thought i saw on the thread where someone ask the same question and they where.I will check into it and see.His address is also on the other thread.Lmk if your able to send it.
Thanks dave

[v8killr]

XR7Dave said they where the same head...
(Who has a junk head laying around? And yes, any N/A 3.8 head will work just fine. Lets get this going as it represents one of the biggest developments to date for our cars. I didn't know these things even existed before. Shows how much I know. But I do know that they will work wonders for our heads.)
Dave

[Jason Wild]

Sorry but what are port plates?

[Mike8675309]

See this thread:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45312

[Darkside]

XR7Dave said they where the same head...
(Who has a junk head laying around? And yes, any N/A 3.8 head will work just fine. Lets get this going as it represents one of the biggest developments to date for our cars. I didn't know these things even existed before. Shows how much I know. But I do know that they will work wonders for our heads.)
Dave
I have one. I can ship it out on Saturday.

[Jason Wild]

I thought thats what they were.

[XR7 Dave]

Here's the address.

MPG Head Service
3881 S Jason St.
Englewood, CO 80110
Ph: 303-762-8196

[v8killr]

So is that a done deal then?Darkside your going to send it out saturday?I told him today that either way i would have him one very shortly even if i have to go pull one from a junk yard.
I gave him my contact info so he could get in touch with me once he recieves it.
Dave

[Darkside]

So is that a done deal then?Darkside your going to send it out saturday?I told him today that either way i would have him one very shortly even if i have to go pull one from a junk yard.
I gave him my contact info so he could get in touch with me once he recieves it.
Dave
I'll ship it out on Saturday. Promise, done deal. He lives in Colorado. Maybe I'll just drop it off. :D

[BlackbirdSC]

I greatly apologize for not following up on sending the scrap head out I have. One thing after another has happened and it got pushed back under stuff. I haven't even posted here much all year. I guess flipping my circletrack car this summer knocked some things loose. :)

Having someone local (sort of) send a head or drop it off is probably better than phone calls and mailing it half way across the country.

The heads still in my garage somewhere just in case........

[v8killr]

I greatly apologize for not following up on sending the scrap head out I have. One thing after another has happened and it got pushed back under stuff. I haven't even posted here much all year. I guess flipping my circletrack car this summer knocked some things loose. :)

Having someone local (sort of) send a head or drop it off is probably better than phone calls and mailing it half way across the country.

The heads still in my garage somewhere just in case........
Don't beat yourself up over it;it's no big deal.I would have gone to a junk yard and pulled one if i had to. I just didn't want to have to spend the money on the head and then pay the shipping on it also.We will get this deal done one way or another(at least on our end).I will keep in touch with him as far as his progress goes but he said it may take a couple months to get it all done maybe sooner it just depends on how slow he gets.

Dave

[SuperCoupeSC91]

i have a spare set of SC heads, there good though, if he needs SC heads i have some from a 89 my brothers old engine, incase the non S/C heads dont work. Alex L

[v8killr]

Alex if those don't work i will get in touch with you.Hopefully though those will work.Thanks for your help.
Dave

[Darkside]

I shipped out the head this morning. It should be at MPG by Wednesday evening. Here is the tracking number v8killr, in case you want to give it to Scott. Either way call him and let him know it will be there. Tracking #: 1Z8X82450338484187 . There might not be any info until tonight or Monday.

[v8killr]

That's great...
At least we got the ball rolling on this thanks to you.I'll track it from work mon and call him when i see it has been delivered to him and we'll go from there.Thanks again Darkside for keeping your word it's good to know people still do that!!
Dave

[scfix92]

And he said that he hasn't been sent a head to try to make these.He said he tried to call the person that started all this(sorry forgot his name)and he said that he would have to go buy a used head and when he did he would send it to him.Well all this time has passed and he gave up on it because he never got back it touch with him.I then started to talk with him about doing the job and about this site and all these people that want them.
He seems to think they can be made,he said they have been making them for some time now and they made a set back in the 80's for a 4cy that went into a pinto.He said he would give try to make them for us we just need to send him a (1) head.He said he would prefer if had the valves and stock equipment on it but it don't matter if it's warped or not it don't have to be a perfect head.

So if someone out there has a extra junk head they could part with and can swing the shipping to him please ship it to him and i will let him know it's on the way.I really didn't want to get this involved with this since i don't know him and really don't know anything about this part but i will try to take it from here if someone can send him the head.He said this is the best time to send it because they are starting to slow down and he'll have more time to mess with all the forms he would have to make.I don't know how long this would take or a price because i didn't get that deep into it with him but i'm thinking around $150.00 bucks because that's a price he through out there.

He ask how many people would be interested and told him how many people responded to this thread and it got his attention,so i don't think he will blow this job off as alot of the other vendors do , he seemed like a pretty nice guy.
LMK if someone plans on sending this head to him i told him i would call him tomorrow with a answer







I have heads from a 94 that I wont be doing anything with for a few months will I get them back. I also gotta clean them up and after christmas they are getting ported and polished so will this interfere wth it.

[Darkside]

That's great...
At least we got the ball rolling on this thanks to you.I'll track it from work mon and call him when i see it has been delivered to him and we'll go from there.Thanks again Darkside for keeping your word it's good to know people still do that!!
Dave
No problem. Only cost me 10 bucks to ship it. :D

[specops_SC]

i was looking through the original thread on this subject and noticed that if you already have a port job, these plates wont help out as much. so if i get my heads done, should i port and polish the intake, while only polishing the exhaust? or would i be better off doing the entire head?

[Darkside]

Hey v8kllr, I was just wondering if you had talked with Scott to verify that he received the head. Update?

[Motohead]

I dont know what the turnaround time is but I have a 3.8 apart right now and would be interested in a set

[007_SuperCoupe]

I've been following all the associated threads on this topic for some time now, and am very interested in the final product. I've also been working with a machine shop with a set of heads to try to get the best out of them...R&D stuff.

We found two things of interest on the heads. First off, there are many impurities in the casting, making it extremely difficult to weld anything in. That also plays directly in line with what I have learned from speaking with Bob Steigemeier as well. Welding may be the most reliable method, but least cost effective.

The second thing that we found is that the short turn radius on the exhaust is not consistent in size/shape from one port to another. There are very minor variations that will prove difficult to make a "bolt on" part that will be more effective than hurting performance.

What I'd be interested in is a product that is "somewhat" finished, that my machine shop can go in and shape to get the appropriate flow characteristics that we are looking for. That way, regardless of the shape of the short turn radius, we can get an effective fit that will not produce more turbulence than is already present in the exhaust runner. One concern that I do have though is the expansion properties of the plates that are suggested. I do not know what material they are going to be made from. But the exhaust runner will get quite warm (goes without saying really) and I do have a concern that if the expansion properties are vastly different than the head, that there will be movement inside the exhaust runner, leading to varying flow characteristics as the car gets warmer. Then I have to ask if they would return to the "original" seating, or if they will begin to warp over time.

Please pass this on to the person who is actually making the port plates. I'd be very interested in the responses to my concerns. I'm just trying to educate myself on these parts.

[v8killr]

Darkside......
Hey i just got back from Ohio.My grandfather passed away last sunday and i've been in Ohio for the past week.I did track the head and he signed for it on the 6th so i'll call him monday and see if everything is good to go and try to get some sort of time line.

Thanks again for sending it out and i'll get back with you and everyone else monday when i get off work.
Dave

007_supercoupe.....
Just as you are trying to educate yourself on these plates so am i.You probably know more about them than i do and i know that might sound scary but it's the truth.And again as you and everyone else was interested in picking a set of these up i was trying to learn why these things where the hot topic of the week(s).Then the guy that started the thread was no where to be found so i decided to pick up where he left off.I would suggest anyone that has great knowledge of these plates to call scott and talk with him about any concerns or imput you may have.When i talk with him monday i will try to ask as many questions as i can.I'm not trying to be an a$$ here i just want make sure we can get these and they are going to be worth the money we spend.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Port plates in general from what Ive seen in the past arnt a tight fitting peice..Its a cheap and easy way of raising the floor of your exhaust port(They make em for intake ports as well)..And they work wonders on the ford cleveland heads (personal experience). The ones Ive used in the past were stainless steel and thin..Kinda like an exhaust gasket with the plated bent out from the gasket itself...If your looking for a solid aluminum tight fitting part this isnt it or at least thats not what I think hes looking into producing. There are way to many variations in factory castings to produce something like that in my opinion. At least if it were to be a bolt on peice

To get an idea here you go
http://www.mpgheads.com/

[v8killr]

Sorry i haven't gotten back with you guys about these,but somehow my computer got some sort of virus and i just got this back up and going again.

FYI though....i got with scott and made sure he recieved the head which he did.He said they are in the process of cleaning it up just as i was talking to him.I ask him what he makes these out of and he said these would be made out of brass or copper i can't remember what he said..lol.I will talk with him again tomorrow and clear that up.I gave him the web address and told him to check us out because he was still curious as to how many people would want these.I will keep checking in with him and give you guys updates and eta's.
David

[XR7 Dave]

It is very true, what was posted above about these heads having large variances from port to port, head to head. I think it will still work out ok, but its just something to keep in mind when creating these plates.

[Darkside]

It is very true, what was posted above about these heads having large variances from port to port, head to head. I think it will still work out ok, but its just something to keep in mind when creating these plates.

Is there any way that they could be made slightly larger than the ports and then "trimmed to fit" an individual head? :confused:

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I'm sure they could..Like I said they are nothing more then a gasket with a bent in tab

[Randy N Connie]

I have look at three pairs of heads I have And bolted the best flowing pair on my SC.

There was over a .100 lower radius on the exhaust port floor on the worst heads i have.They look almost flat.

Randy

[MagpoweredSC]

any updates?

[T@Sound-Xtreme]

I am also looking for updates.

Tyler

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Updates * 3

[seawalkersee]

Uhhh...is this thing on???


Chris

[v8killr]

Guy's...........
I will call him tomorrow and let everybody know what is going on.I haven't talked with him for a couple weeks.I picked up a second job and have been busy as he(( lately.
I'll post tomorrow.
Dave

[v8killr]

I talked with scott today and he said things are going very well.He said they are coming along and he's getting some good numbers so far.I didn't have time to talk to him for long but he said he wanted to run some more tests and try few more little tricks to them to see what kind of numbers he can produce.I told him i would call him back in a couple weeks.He said he would call me before that if he gets them done.I will probably need a good donor car to run these though because i may have mine down to put a tranny and some from end parts on.I hope that everyone that said they wanted a set of these still does.I know it will depend on how good they are,but if these run like he's saying i think everyone will be very pleased.

I will keep everyone posted as soon as i hear anything else.
Dave.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I have a bone stock 94 auto SC i'd be willing to do before and after dyno numbers with..:O)

[darriantbird]

I talked with scott today and he said things are going very well.He said they are coming along and he's getting some good numbers so far.I didn't have time to talk to him for long but he said he wanted to run some more tests and try few more little tricks to them to see what kind of numbers he can produce.I told him i would call him back in a couple weeks.He said he would call me before that if he gets them done.I will probably need a good donor car to run these though because i may have mine down to put a tranny and some from end parts on.I hope that everyone that said they wanted a set of these still does.I know it will depend on how good they are,but if these run like he's saying i think everyone will be very pleased.

I will keep everyone posted as soon as i hear anything else.
Dave.
if we can get HP #s Iwould be very interested in these I plan on redoing the head gaskets in the spring I thought I might have the heads ported but .... if this could be an alterative to porting and save me a grand I'd be all for it!

[tim]

My car is do for some more upgrades this winter and this sounds like a graet idea. please keep us posted.

[Phillio99]

Any updates/ further information on the port plates?
Thanks,
Phil

[seawalkersee]

Any news?

Chris

[v8killr]

If haven't talked with him since the last time i posted.I will give him a call and see where he's at.
Dave

[Motohead]

Any News ??

[ThunderRoad]

:confused: :confused: NO NEW NEWS???????????? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[v8killr]

No i don't believe these feel through.I just forgot to call him to get any updates.Sorry fella's.
I'll call him tomorrow for sure and see how he's coming along.
Dave

[Phillio99]

Any Updates?

[darriantbird]

Just checking in to see if any headway was made ,I'll be moding again come spring time and I am starting to make plans.

[Motohead]

No i don't believe these feel through.I just forgot to call him to get any updates.Sorry fella's.
I'll call him tomorrow for sure and see how he's coming along.
Dave
It's January 24th have you herd from "him" ??

[seawalkersee]

I guess they are not gonna be made?

Chris

[ThunderRoad]

:cool: just more dreams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

[007_SuperCoupe]

I guess they are not gonna be made?

Chris

Contact Bob Stiegemeier at www.stiegemeier.com . He has expressed interest in making them. I spoke with him extensively a few months ago and this was one topic of discussion.

[RGR]

Ya know, Guys, that going to a bigger Exhaust Valve helps
lots too. At least the way I port them you get a much better
short turn to the port floor.

Not a bolt-on like the plates, but if the heads are off, go BV
on the exhaust side at least. Heck, do I&E and be done with it.

[tim]

RGR, dont mean to be rude but who are you I have never seen a post by you or heard of your work. More info is always good. Thanks Tim

[RGR]

That's cool Tim, nice to meet you.

I was here on and off since maybe 1999 and when a change was made by
the site, my post count was lost, as you can see I re-registered in 03 but
somehow those posts were lost too. I'm not here to do porting, I just got
over here again today to look at the Cometic HG deal, and to plug for that.

I do not port for the public at large anymore, but I know that BV'ing the
SC heads makes a much better short turn on the exhaust side. I've done
lots of them now, if you count the nearly identical NA heads. On fact, I
was around doing this stuff when the only game in town was thought to be
CMRE and Morana was playing with carbs :)

I got a good start in 1998 but with the Mustang crowd.
I am now helping a friend start up a new venture, he might
advertise here, because I have a sweet package of upgrades
that will work with SC heads in 2 major areas:

Conical Valvespring Conversions and Big Valve Kits.

It will be available thru my friend, but called RGR-Spec.
No links or anything, I'm not here to sell. Just telling you
who I am.

I have done cams and/or heads for some of the following people:

V6Sprout
Micah
Julian ?Miller?

and maybe 1 or 2 more, but I do not actively seek SC business
and do not port now anyway, just follow-ups and updates for
my existing people I have worked with. I did a big cam for Julian and
a guy named Thomas Abney that SC guys may know, he frequents this
board I believe.

Later,
RGR

[seawalkersee]

How big of valves are we talking about here? I was going to present larger valves as a question earlier but lost time. I was at a bone yard a few years ago when I was first looking into a SC. He said he had built a few and in one he had put chevy valves. He said they are the same height and fit nicely in the head. He seemed to be kind of a knucklehead though so I only took what he said with a grain of salt. I would like to see a larger valve on both side of the head espically with my set up and planned upgrades.

Chris

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Wel I think conical springs are a great idea....However I dont see what would be so difficult in that..


Contact Bob Stiegemeier at www.stiegemeier.com . He has expressed interest in making them. I spoke with him extensively a few months ago and this was one topic of discussion.

1,500 port plates dont interest me haha

[tim]

Ok what are conical springs and what are there advantage. I only ask because I have spent a ton of money on things that were supposed to add power that didnt do squat. big money for a raised top and headers come to mind.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Less valvetrain weight and better valvetrain stability at higher RPMs come to mind with conicals..That being said I dont have :O)

[tim]

So would they let the engine wind up faster? Better stability at higher R.P.M.S? How high are we talking? When I race I usually shift at 5600. Maybe I am wrong but with the roller cam and rockers I dont see a problem. Most of us dont wind up to 6000 rpms because we dont really gain anything by doing it. Not trying to be negative, just trying to find out if it would really be worth the expense.

[T-bird4vr]

Ok what are conical springs and what are there advantage. I only ask because I have spent a ton of money on things that were supposed to add power that didnt do squat. big money for a raised top and headers come to mind.

Well conical springs aren't going to give you big hp either, but the only things that I think do are heads, cam, and blower swaps. The rest of the stuff just helps.

I would put conical springs in the same boat as RR or a little above, I wish I had both but don't think my motor needs them right now. But maybe some 1.8rr if the conicals will support them would be a good upgrade.

[tim]

I spent a lot of money on head work by a so called local expert. I need to have real port work and unshrouding done, I already have big stainless steel intake and exhaust valves. I dont have $2000 for a set of Stegmier heads. :eek: I also dont have $1000+ to have the blower and plenium redone. Speed cost money and this year it dont look good. :mad:

[RGR]

nm..................

[RGR]

I won't pull you guy's legs, the conical concept is unproven on
near-stock SC setups. My only real concern is that the blower
is sucking out too much HP over 5K and the extra RPM capability
will be wasted, however the flip side is that some setups could be
pullied slower and gain some RPM thru reduced parasitic loss, and then
the springs would be very useful. Setups like this would probably gain
at least 1000 useable RPM if the parasitic blower loss is not too high.

Why would I want to contact steigemeyer? I was doing this when you said
he was thinking about it. I've done several already, but no hard dyno feedback
yet. "I'm looking for a tester in the SC universe" :D

[XR7 Dave]

Just an FYI, conical springs do not work on stock SC heads. Like nearly everything else for these cars, custom machine work is required.

[MikeKanterakis]

I have a tester car. 5-spd or auto. fresh rebuild on suspension, engine and trans.

well, give the 5-spd trans another month.

Oh, yeah, and all stock too. (sorry A.C.)

[RGR]

Just an FYI, conical springs do not work on stock SC heads. Like nearly everything else for these cars, custom machine work is required.


Just for your information I have complete
setups that do not require any machining at all
with certain combos. I'm currently checking ALL
combinations, I have actually made retainers
to make this work. It's sweet! :D

[XR7 Dave]

Just for your information I have complete
setups that do not require any machining at all
with certain combos. I'm currently checking ALL
combinations, I have actually made retainers
to make this work. It's sweet! :D

Well, that kind of answers that now doesn't it. :) Custom machining is required. So tell me about these custom retainers, what exactly do these special retainers do that off the shelf retainers do not?

[RGR]

Well, that kind of answers that now doesn't it. :) Custom machining is required. So tell me about these custom retainers, what exactly do these special retainers do that off the shelf retainers do not?
Make conicals work on SC heads :p


Custom machining is required... by me,

...but not custom machining by the end user!

If someone makes a drop-in kit, (like I have) it will sell.
I'd rather not discuss specifics of how it's done, but
later I'll have all the details on the website (links later).

Right now I'm looking for a tester or 2, like I said earlier,
should I make a new post in this forum??? I'm not a sponsor,
would it be OK? Maybe I'll try and see what the admins say...

[XR7 Dave]

Custom machining is required... by me,

...but not custom machining by the end user!

If someone makes a drop-in kit, (like I have) it will sell.
I'd rather not discuss specifics of how it's done, but
later I'll have all the details on the website (links later).

Right now I'm looking for a tester or 2, like I said earlier,
should I make a new post in this forum??? I'm not a sponsor,
would it be OK? Maybe I'll try and see what the admins say...

There is no need to beat around the bush, the problem with the conical springs is only that the off the shelf retainers do not provide enough installed height to run them. I've already done much of the same work/experimenting that you have. I'm not prepared to machine a totally new retainer though. Even with a different retainer you are still limited to about .550" lift based on the clearance between the seal and the retainer. No big secrets here.

Now if you have the heads off and can do just a little bit of machining to the spring seats, the conicals DO drop right in. :) Don't get me wrong, I appreciate anything done to make parts more accessible for us, especially good ones.

[RGR]

Seems to me (maybe this is old info) most SC guys run only
.520" lift anyway, but the springs and retainers I've used on
the BV setups would go at least .590" lift worst case, and
I'm getting my pieces together for stock head setups.
Maybe you are right about those, but .590" and up for
the BV setups seems worth doing.

[XR7 Dave]

Seems to me (maybe this is old info) most SC guys run only
.520" lift anyway, but the springs and retainers I've used on
the BV setups would go at least .590" lift worst case, and
I'm getting my pieces together for stock head setups.
Maybe you are right about those, but .590" and up for
the BV setups seems worth doing.

The SC motor really responds well to increases in lift. Most people have gone with .520" lift because it worked well with the existing spring packages. The high HP SC motors will be looking for about .580-.600 lift, but most normal packages will go for about .520-.560" lift.

I kinda missed a couple things with what you posted above. I was trying to use the BH springs with stock valves which is where I was running into the problems with installed height. With larger valves and some different hardware the BH springs make for an excellent alternative to traditional springs. I guess we'll have to wait for the website, huh? ;)

[RGR]

The SC motor really responds well to increases in lift. Most people have gone with .520" lift because it worked well with the existing spring packages. The high HP SC motors will be looking for about .580-.600 lift, but most normal packages will go for about .520-.560" lift.

I kinda missed a couple things with what you posted above. I was trying to use the BH springs with stock valves which is where I was running into the problems with installed height. With larger valves and some different hardware the BH springs make for an excellent alternative to traditional springs. I guess we'll have to wait for the website, huh? ;)

I have a way around the stock spring conundrum too. I have to get
second opinions on this part, but it does raise the whole retainer and
lock package substantially, to where stock valves would go over .600" lift
capable. But up to a point, opening a small valve further does no good,
you are just further raising a valve above a throat that is fully open at
a point that "theoretically" is fully open at .445", assuming it is perfectly
ported and unshrouded fully, but we have empirical data that suggests
lifts approaching .600" are still gaining in flow with the stock 1.78" valves.
Flow Bench data and Dyno data. ~.550" is PDR (point of diminishing returns)
but it still rises some above that, in excessively ported stock valve heads.
Such heads are giving up flow by keeping the stock valves.

Kewl Dave, I'll get some data and stuf together, and make a post on this
board if you guys think it is a good idea.

[tim]

Ok let me see if I understand this a little. At 550 lift with stock valves and fully ported heads you saw smaller returns beyond. So with bigger valves and ported heads where is the point of diminishing returns? I only ask because the only guys that know about this stuff have explained it to me as bigger cams 580+ are really the way to go. It wold seen to me unless I am missing with bigger valves the point would be lower, 520? Or is that all wrong? Iam at 500 lift with bigger valves and so so porting at this point.

[RGR]

Ok let me see if I understand this a little. At 550 lift with stock valves and fully ported heads you saw smaller returns beyond. So with bigger valves and ported heads where is the point of diminishing returns? I only ask because the only guys that know about this stuff have explained it to me as bigger cams 580+ are really the way to go. It wold seen to me unless I am missing with bigger valves the point would be lower, 520? Or is that all wrong? I am at 500 lift with bigger valves and so so porting at this point.

A bigger valve and proper porting will flow more all around, and continue
flow improvements into higher lift ranges. The big valves also enhance
low-lift flow (opening a bigger throat sooner) even if not properly ported.
This assumes a good 3 (or more) angle Valve Job.

Not sure if this answers your Q Tim, but you can clarify if needed.

[v8killr]

Just wanted to give you guys another heads up.
I called scott today and ended up talking to a guy that's works there for him.This guy told me that they have a clay cast made for our T-Bird but the people they used to pour there molds went out of business so they are in the process of looking for another company that can do this.I'm calling back tomorrow to get with scott and see where they are.
Dave

[tim]

Thanks that explains it pretty well. As you know next fall is port time.

[seawalkersee]

Is the .520 the cam or is that the GVL? My cam is like a .444 so I think the GVL is like .520. It works very well so far but like most on this site...More power is better. Any word on your pricing? You said that it is a drop in kit. With the new valves you said it uses the same seats. Is there any problem with the installed height, or have you already set it up to componsate for that?

Chris

[RGR]

Is the .520 the cam or is that the GVL? My cam is like a .444 so I think the GVL is like .520. It works very well so far but like most on this site...More power is better. Any word on your pricing? You said that it is a drop in kit. With the new valves you said it uses the same seats. Is there any problem with the installed height, or have you already set it up to componsate for that?

Chris


Talking valve lift, not lobe lift. Most guys have .520
with Dr. Fred cams and some others, cuz common springs
worked with it. I can also get straight springs that go over .600"
lift for these setups.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Once again Im a tad lost here.

Ive almost always had to do machining to my heads to install aftermarket springs. Usually cutting a seat for the spring to sit or for the shims to sit. There are direct fit springs but they should still be checked and shimmed accordingly being no two heads are 100% alike

As far as the conicals are concerned I wouldnt feel comfortable with a modified retainer. Why a modified retainer? Or did you mean locks? and if its a height issue why not use shims?

[XR7 Dave]

Once again Im a tad lost here.

Ive almost always had to do machining to my heads to install aftermarket springs. Usually cutting a seat for the spring to sit or for the shims to sit. There are direct fit springs but they should still be checked and shimmed accordingly being no two heads are 100% alike

As far as the conicals are concerned I wouldnt feel comfortable with a modified retainer. Why a modified retainer? Or did you mean locks? and if its a height issue why not use shims?

The conical spring is too tall already.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

We had no problem getting an application for my freinds twisted wedge heads. I cant see it being that difficult to source out one for the SC head. Just a matter of finding the right application. Maybe ill look into it when I have time. It be a nice upgrade for my SC heads

[RGR]

I've worked with dozens of heads, and variance has been about
.005" in my experience. The heads are quite consistent, but it's
best to have it assembled by a competent person. Lots of SC
people are, they've been doing this forever :)

[seawalkersee]

Is this thread dead?

Chris

[RGR]

We had no problem getting an application for my freinds twisted wedge heads. I cant see it being that difficult to source out one for the SC head. Just a matter of finding the right application. Maybe ill look into it when I have time. It be a nice upgrade for my SC heads

Hey, I forgot, I have a spring that is safe to compress down to
right at 1.000" (stack height is lower) and it would fit stock SC
valves, custom retainers (not my customs, but off the shelf items)
and stock locks. If we get anything over 1.600" IH it will give .600" lift capacity!
Retail is $200 for the springs alone, but these bad boys are the best available
and they are not from any known cam retailer. My wholesaler will only give me
a part # to order by and that is all, I do not even know the manufacturer.

But they told me they are top-quality American Made BeeHive Springs,
they exceed anythig else available and I did a set for a guy with a V6,
we used my .610 lift cam and these springs, and they ROCK!

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

That be cool....Comp makes excellanty Beehives...I wonder

NOW WHAT ABOUT PORT PLATES!!.

[RGR]

NOW WHAT ABOUT PORT PLATES!!.


IMO, get bigger valves, or weld the floors OR BOTH.
You know you want to take this SC all the way, so
just get an extra set of heads and do it right! :D

[XR7 Dave]

IMO, get bigger valves, or weld the floors OR BOTH.
You know you want to take this SC all the way, so
just get an extra set of heads and do it right! :D Damon's already got all that. He's trying to keep the thread on topic. ;)

[tim]

Damon, is your car almost done?

[seawalkersee]

Soooooo...is there any PORT PLATE news? I am still interested. I also might look into the valve thing but this is all on a low cost first basis. I need to know what I am up against before I go shooting my mouth off about what I will do.

On a different note...How big of a cam are you guys currently running. I think I read somewhere that these motors reallyrespond more to duration when approaching the .500 lift. I think mine has some low .442/.444 lift but I may be mistaken.

Chris

[RGR]

On a different note...How big of a cam are you guys currently running. I think I read somewhere that these motors reallyrespond more to duration when approaching the .500 lift. I think mine has some low .442/.444 lift but I may be mistaken.

Chris

I'm kind of new to the SC crowd in cams, but I did the cam for Julian Miller
and he's getting a dyno soon we all hope, has that new AR setup and
the residing Gurus all think he get easily over 400 RWHP.

I did a 215 cam for him, Intake duration, with near 600" lift.
(.576" with 1.73 rockers, .599" with 1.8's)
I forget LCA's and exact exhaust duration, but BV heads can
really use that near 600" lift and I intend to turn the SC world
upside down on the cam side of things. With the conicals
these big cams are much more viable.

[seawalkersee]

What kind of advantages would we see if we used both the big valves and the port plate? :eek:

Chris

[RGR]

What kind of advantages would we see if we used both the big valves and the port plate? :eek:

Chris

Well, the big valves reduce the problem of the short turn and low floor, but
I would assume that it would still pay off to raise teh floor a bit. David Dalke
tells me that the flow gains are minimal, but that the velocity is increased
and the turbulance is reduced, which is good for faster outflow of the exhaust
even if no flow increase is realized. Properly done the increases could equal
measurable increases at the track and dyno while being minimal gains on the
flowbench. The bigger valves would require a modified port plate as the short
turn is brought closer to the port exit and further from the valve centerline.
This part is crucial, if you used a stock port plate it could greatly reduce flow
with a bigger exhaust valve by overhanging the bowl! But a minor bending or
cutting operation would probably be enough to modify the port plates. Welded
floors would be the best modification for any SC heads, BV or otherwise.
There is also a high-temp Exhaust Epoxy that is used and would be cheaper
and easier for the home user. But the existing port walls and floor would need
some grooves cut in them so the epoxy can lock in and not dislodge from the
port. This is done easily enough, I have used plenty of epoxy on external
intake manifold surfaces, and it has all help so far!

[seawalkersee]

As far as the plate vs the overhang, I accept that and understand it fully. The problem I see is the use of a larger valve with the stock seat. These plates should be just on the inside of the seat if properly made. I have only heard of the epoxy being used on the exhaust never seen it. How does it keep from being burned out? I am sure there is some new wiz-bang chemical that is very temperature safe. I also fully understand the raising velocity and decreasing the size but having the same flow. I, however weird it may seem, am still a large advocate of the port plates. When I was younger my uncle and this guy who lived near him were talikng about doing this with a 400 or a 351m or something. At that time I did not understand. Then I heard of it again when I was like 17. I asked about it in college and the gyus laughed at me. Then the teacher spoke of it and what made them great. I understand if it is such a great idea why isnt everyone doing it principal. But then if you look at it like that, then why did those dumb@$$ Ford guys make it this way.

Chris

[RGR]

As far as the plate vs the overhang, I accept that and understand it fully. The problem I see is the use of a larger valve with the stock seat. These plates should be just on the inside of the seat if properly made. I have only heard of the epoxy being used on the exhaust never seen it. How does it keep from being burned out? I am sure there is some new wiz-bang chemical that is very temperature safe. I also fully understand the raising velocity and decreasing the size but having the same flow. I, however weird it may seem, am still a large advocate of the port plates. When I was younger my uncle and this guy who lived near him were talikng about doing this with a 400 or a 351m or something. At that time I did not understand. Then I heard of it again when I was like 17. I asked about it in college and the gyus laughed at me. Then the teacher spoke of it and what made them great. I understand if it is such a great idea why isnt everyone doing it principal. But then if you look at it like that, then why did those dumb@$$ Ford guys make it this way.

Chris


It is a high-temp Epoxy specifically for exhausts. I think it is rated to 1800* F
and a well-tuned engine will not get very close to that. Besides, it is going in
a "dead area" and will get less heat and flow down there on the floor. I
believe it has metal in the material to transfer away the heat as well.

Larger valves with the stock seat are fine, if done properly. I have several
sets out there with thousands upon thousands of miles on them, zero failures
so far and none are anticipated either. I checked with my machinist about
seat width and we are using quite safe margins, and I reject using any valve
over a 1.60" on a stock seat, anyone using a bigger valve than that on a
stock seat is either fooling themselves about flow increases or is risking
valveseat recession and other problems. I know CMRE and Steig use a 1.625"
but I'd hope those are on bigger seats. Besides, a 1.6 can flow more than
their claimed flow #'s with the 1.625" anyway. Theoretically that is...
meaning with a perfectly sized port and exacting detail to short turns and
long side, etc. I think the reason no one is really getting the most out of a
1.625" Exh. valve is the the poor stock port dimensions and architecture.
Steig and Coy get good #'s and could do even better with a clean sheet
approach but who has the $$$$$$$ for that??? Wish I did, for one! :D

[seawalkersee]

I do have an idea that could help you. If you can locate a Steig head and get a mold of the port and then make a cross section casting of that port and then put that cross section in your existing port with some of that epoxy at the bottom then you could eliminate the middleman. Unfortunately you could only do it not for profit or you would get your @$$ sued off by steig...and he would win...

Chris

[RGR]

I do have an idea that could help you. If you can locate a Steig head and get a mold of the port and then make a cross section casting of that port and then put that cross section in your existing port with some of that epoxy at the bottom then you could eliminate the middleman. Unfortunately you could only do it not for profit or I would get MY @$$ sued off by steig...and he would win...

Chris




No need to copy :D Never have done it, never will need too!

I was porting these heads b4 everyone but CMRE and Morana,
and I don't believe anyone is doing any better with similar effort.
I plan on writing a comprehensive porting book someday. I can
develop my own port if need be. I'd fill it in more than the exisiting
practice and then do a velocity probing R&D port job on it. http://www.sccoa.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

I have a tig welding shop here that works quite reasonably, and
if someone needs this it can be done. I'd digitize the port after that,
if it is a big item for the SC guys. Mustang guys can go Split Port, those
heads have nice short turns and get close to 180 CFM on an accurate
'bench with the tiny 1.45" valves!!! :eek:

[seawalkersee]

Speaking of...which heads do YOU prefer? I have nothing to compare them to except by the power output of the moostangs. The split ports (from what I understand) do not flow as much air as out heads do. How is this possible whith two ports and a better shaped exhaust?

Chris

[RGR]

Speaking of...which heads do YOU prefer? I have nothing to compare them to except by the power output of the moostangs. The split ports (from what I understand) do not flow as much air as out heads do. How is this possible whith two ports and a better shaped exhaust?

Chris


SPI lightly ported flows like a BV SC head.
Well, the exhausts take more work but they can get close to 180 CFM
with the stock valves, and one guy claimed 211 with a big valve. His 'bench
is proven to be optimistic though, but I'm sure the right valve and port work
could surpass 200 CFM quite easily. Also, the stock Intake valves have seen
close to 270 on a very accurate 'bench. I "very lightly" port the heads for
a stock 3.8 NA setup, and my older cams have hit 215 RWHP with no porting
of any part of the engine on a 3.8, and that was an "old" cam with lame
lift and slow ramp old-style ch*vy regrind lobes. The Beehive springs and
lightweight valves are killer with a radical ramp rate cam, We're looking to
get 300 RWHP NA on a 4.2 stroker this summer or sooner!
Add boost to that and just imagine what they can hit! One guy has a
4.2 making 465 RWHP with a powerdyne centrifugal unit. max-ported stock
valve heads. So there is mucho potential there, and these heads are so much
easier to get flow out of.

[MIKE 38sc]

I do have an idea that could help you. If you can locate a Steig head and get a mold of the port and then make a cross section casting of that port and then put that cross section in your existing port with some of that epoxy at the bottom then you could eliminate the middleman. Unfortunately you could only do it not for profit or you would get your @$$ sued off by steig...and he would win...

Chris

Chris Stieg cant sue anyone for useing the exhaust ports he uses on his SC heads as he did'nt invent it. Those ports known as the supersonic nozzle were designed tested and perfected by Larry Widmere of Endyne fame.
Larry is the guy that was building heads for Bob Glidden and Bill Elliot when they were setting the raceing world on fire. Once Larry's support of those 2 racers was pulled they virtualy dropped off the map overnight. The squable started when Bob tried to pull an endrun on Larry and take his design away from him so that he would have sole marketing power of the design.
Larry got mad, pulled his support from domestic auto racing and gave that port design to the world for free so that no 1 person controled it.
Thats the story behind the D shaped exhaust port. No one person owns it and anyone can use it freely.
The real secret to that port is partly the cleaning up of the short turn radius.
But the real performance kick is achieved by bringing the ports pinch point back down to the ideal 2/3rds the size of the valve head which makes it flow supersonic.
No need to make models of the port as I just told you the dimensions to make the port pinch area.
Every engine I've ever tried these ports on responds very good to these exhaust ports, it even helps on some engines to do it to the intake ports as well. However Boosted engines do not fit that catagory.
You better have a set of earplugs in when you flow those ports because they scream and will rip your ears off your head.

[RGR]

Chris Stieg cant sue anyone for useing the exhaust ports he uses on his SC heads as he did'nt invent it. Those ports known as the supersonic nozzle were designed tested and perfected by Larry Widmere of Endyne fame.
Larry is the guy that was building heads for Bob Glidden and Bill Elliot when they were setting the raceing world on fire. Once Larry's support of those 2 racers was pulled they virtualy dropped off the map overnight. The squable started when Bob tried to pull an endrun on Larry and take his design away from him so that he would have sole marketing power of the design.
Larry got mad, pulled his support from domestic auto racing and gave that port design to the world for free so that no 1 person controled it.
Thats the story behind the D shaped exhaust port. No one person owns it and anyone can use it freely.
The real secret to that port is partly the cleaning up of the short turn radius.
But the real performance kick is achieved by bringing the ports pinch point back down to the ideal 2/3rds the size of the valve head which makes it flow supersonic.
No need to make models of the port as I just told you the dimensions to make the port pinch area.
Every engine I've ever tried these ports on responds very good to these exhaust ports, it even helps on some engines to do it to the intake ports as well. However Boosted engines do not fit that catagory.
You better have a set of earplugs in when you flow those ports because they scream and will rip your ears off your head.



Hmmm, got any links for this? I prefer theory over anything else, but you
dimensions would sure help. However I would want to know exactly how to
cam it and make the most of it. The flow with a regular 'bench will be quite
low at normal depressions I would assume, since the suction will be quite
different than dynamic operating conditions. I read something about going
supersonic, the cylinder evacuates itself more quickly and completely, calling
for less overlap and exhaust duration as a result. Are we on the same page
here Mike?

[seawalkersee]

I am learnig what Ford didnt teach me in school here. I have heard Larrys name attached to those two before (it tied into the other port plate story as a matter of fact) so I am inclined to believe it. As far as making the mold, That would give any one person the ability to reshape their ports in a matter of hours. Kind of like taking a scraper over a drywall nail. You could see the gap and fill it. Understanding that however sets my mind into a spin about the other possibilities. Is their any connection with the length of the exhaust port itself in relation to power? Kind of like the longer the intake runner the better low end and so on.

I have never even seen a flow bench in person so I only have about 3/4 knowledge of what you guys are talking about. Keep it up though because I will retain it and someday maybee Ill be the big guy with the heads.

Chris

[RGR]

I am learnig what Ford didnt teach me in school here. I have heard Larrys name attached to those two before *(it tied into the other port plate story as a matter of fact) so I am inclined to believe it. As far as making the mold, That would give any one person the ability to reshape their ports in a matter of hours. Kind of like taking a scraper over a drywall nail. You could see the gap and fill it. **Understanding that however sets my mind into a spin about the other possibilities. Is their any connection with the length of the exhaust port itself in relation to power? Kind of like the longer the intake runner the better low end and so on.

I have never even seen a flow bench in person so I only have about 3/4 knowledge of what you guys are talking about. Keep it up though because I will retain it and someday maybee Ill be the big guy with the heads.

Chris

* The Port Plates do not make a sonic exhaust port. The just reduce the
cross sectional area to the proper sizing associated with more conventional
thinking. But Port Plates could be constructed with a greater area reduction
that would creat a sonic port, but it's better to permanently fill it in IMO.
BTW, I saw 1 pic of the D-Port SC exhaust, and it did not look like it was
small enough to be sonic but then again pictures can be misleading...

** BRILLIANT!!! You're right on here, but we must then consider the
Exhaust Manifold as an extension of the port. If Exhaust Manifolding
technology was as advanced as Intake Tech, we'd be making alot more power
than we are, and on that note, there is a place I'd like you to look at:

Acoustic Supercharger... (http://www.x-pipe.com/)

I believe in this guy, and I have viewed patent drawings, which even
reinforced his theories further, in fact this design dates back to the very
early 1900's for diesel engines, so I believe the device can work! Certain
people I know (who think entirely in {a small corner of} the box) dismissed
this idea after reading a few sentences about it, but I've talked to the man
for HOURS, and he even told me what kind of cam speccing and porting the
ASC likes best. It matches an SPI motor almost to a "T" and I intend to make
it work on an SPI! It might even work with the Sonic Exhaust Ports, but one
or two of the peripheral requirements of the two systems seem to conflict.
However, I think I can reconcile them. :D

[seawalkersee]

Is it safe to assume that you are telling me that the SONIC PORTS are the ones we are after in alll applications? If so, what can I do to get to this level. Are the old heads just junk in that aspect or close enough that I should just switch over to the SPIs?

I asked the question to you on the other post (sorry) about the exhaust port length. You answered it here. Is it feesable to think that by porting towards the intake side of the exhaust port to give the air the illusion that the port is longer without causing a turbulant/negative effect?

Chris

[RGR]

1. Is it safe to assume that you are telling me that the SONIC PORTS are the ones we are after in alll applications? If so, what can I do to get to this level. Are the old heads just junk in that aspect or close enough that I should just switch over to the SPIs?

I asked the question to you on the other post (sorry) about the exhaust port length. You answered it here.

2. Is it feesable to think that by porting towards the intake side of the exhaust port to give the air the illusion that the port is longer without causing a turbulant/negative effect?

Chris

#1, Needs more research and more combo info from you. It is a complex Question!

#2. If this did work, (biased porting) the effect would be so small on runner
length that it would be unnoticeable. Just consider the manifolds as part of
the runner and work it from that approach. BUt anything you can do in the
port that helps the transition to the manifold would be noticeable, if that
is what you meant in your question.

PS: Port wall thickness being what they are, it may not pay to bias the port
at all... SPI heads have a thin spot in a commonly hogged area that SC head
porters can usually go wild in. Bad news for traditional porting practice!
AFAIK I'm the first to cut up an SPI head. I WAS the first to port a 99^
Mustang intake, that was in April 1999! That thing is a Work of Art...

[darriantbird]

WHAT ABOUT THE PORT PLATES?????? :rolleyes:

[seawalkersee]

You have only mentioned the sonic ports. I do not know what the deal is with them. Is this the desired effect of the exhaust port? I do not understand why they even came up but now you have cought my attention.

Chris

[RGR]

You have only mentioned the sonic ports. I do not know what the deal is with them. Is this the desired effect of the exhaust port? I do not understand why they even came up but now you have cought my attention.

Chris

I suggest you go back and read closer.
I talked about both types, and I know more about
conventional exhaust ports. Very little about sonic
ports.

THe conventional theory for exhaust ports is to
be sub-sonic, getting ~70-80% E/I flow ratio on
the ports with 28" H2O depression. Sonic ports
would have a lower flow @ 28" but the idea is
to force the exhaust flow thru a small port to
use the excess heat of combustion to accelerate
the gasses to super-sonic speeds, then it creates
a vacuum in the cylinder as it leaves, sucking
everything out in a shorter time. Overlap and
low-lift flow figures would need to be adjusted
to prevent over-scavenge, but that is what
the ASC does, prevents over-scavenge.

As for the Port Plates, they simply fill a void in
the floor of the poorly designed SC exhaust ports.
It appears that the remaining flow area is more
or less equal to the valve's flow area, but not
2/3 like was stated earlier for a sonic port.
But that is just my opinion from pictures and
product descriptions of the Port Plates.

[MIKE 38sc]

Here's a picture Larry's BOSS 429 exhaust ports. These are super sonic ports and these heads later ended up on Bob Gliddens Tbird.
Believe it or not the ports dont need special cam timing to work.
Compair these ports to the BOSS 429 heads previous to 83 and you'll see that the earlier ports were huge compaired to these, however they owned Pro Stock for years until Larry built the Dodge heads for Darrell Alderman and the guy's at Wayne County Speed Shop.
The technology works theres no doubt about it. Every team Larry has built heads for became champions so that says something.
There's no denying that his work has ruffled feathers in the racing world.

[seawalkersee]

It would appear from what I have read on both this and the problem with heads post that the sonic heads would work best for a race head. As far as the street heads go I think the sonic port set up would be a bit much. It would appear that it requires a higher rpm to make them worh wile. Do you have any expirience with this mike? I not really sure where a happy medium is but it would appear that just under the sonic port would be a good 2000 rpm and up head.


In fact since there is such a volume of posts on both threads lets just switch all of this conversation over to the head thread.

Chris

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

The point is plates would be cheap..I think that is what we are looking at here!

[RGR]

IMO they are a good thing for stock valve heads.

[MIKE 38sc]

The point is plates would be cheap..I think that is what we are looking at here!

Well if you have a welder and can weld its cheaper than the plates. LOL!!!!!
But I geuss your time is worth something. :D

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I dont wel daluminum:O)..And my knowledge of porting heads ends at teh short turn radius haha..

But Mike..If you arnt to busy I bet I havea set of head syou can do soem welding on!!

[seawalkersee]

Is this a dead subject or did someone get this guy the heads?

Chris

[Randy N Connie]

I am really suprised that this thread about BAND-AIDS for ports,
is still around.

RANDY :confused:

[seawalkersee]

Thats because of my vision of greatness for these cars.


Chris

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Band aids are cheap,,And if they work,,Thats great,,Because everything is a band aid for this dam anemic motor;O)..YAH I SAID ANEMIC!

[seawalkersee]

Well...when you cant afford to take your car to the doctor you have to find a cure for the problem that you can afford.

Chris

[T@Sound-Xtreme]

wasnt there a phone# for this guy somewhere? Have you talked with him v-8 kiler?


Tyler

[Randy N Connie]

PH.# 1-800-PORTBANDAID :D


I am sure these are nice parts,

Don't get mad,I am Just jokin around :D

RANDY

[T@Sound-Xtreme]

Randy,
hmmmm somewhere i had a smiliy of a guy with a gun,

http://members.cox.net/smitty1258/violent-smiley-038%5B1%5D.gif


im just kidding too,kinda :D

Tyler

[Phil04]

So has there been any news on the plates lately?

[Rick Mink]

Ive discussed port plate with my machine shop guy and he said that if I get him a junk head, he has someone that makes them for the old boss engines. if this is a no go, please let me know so I can move forward with this.

Rick

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Go for it..Thsi seems a no go

[seawalkersee]

I agree. I was in the shower last night wondering about this very post. I am going to try to get my other set of heads off the parts car and probably make my own set. Unless anyone can actually make a set that will work then I am left with only my own work to rely on.

Chris

[Slysc]

You think about SC stuff in the shower too? Weird isn't it.

[seawalkersee]

Sick aint it...

I HATE Ford. Those bastages cant give us a bone to play with at all. "Oh...you want to go fast and have a 600 lb disadvantage? You cant do that...you have to buy a Mustang." Ya know, if I bought one of those GTOs this would not be an issue. Those idiots at GM even have parts for that junk @$$ Cavalier. We cant even get good stuff for a car that came from the FACTORY with a supercharger.


Chris

[Rick Mink]

Sick aint it...

I HATE Ford. Those bastages cant give us a bone to play with at all. "Oh...you want to go fast and have a 600 lb disadvantage? You cant do that...you have to buy a Mustang." Ya know, if I bought one of those GTOs this would not be an issue. Those idiots at GM even have parts for that junk @$$ Cavalier. We cant even get good stuff for a car that came from the FACTORY with a supercharger.


Chris
does anyone have a junk head that they want to donate for this cause?? I have someone willing to prototype this but I haven't moved forward since I didnt know if anyone else is working on these. hopefully I'll have more details for ya next week.

Rick

[seawalkersee]

As far as I know, my heads are not junk. In the event that they were I would gladly ship one. I bought the car wrecked so I can not tell you.

Chris

[Pablo94SC]

BUMP.

Maybe I'll do this since apparently no one else wants to.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Details yes what happened?

[seawalkersee]

I bet it went like this...Blah blah blah, blah blah bloo blah. There was a need for a junk head to git it started and go from there. The thing fell through and no one picked up on it.

Chris

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

So CHriss go make some!

[XR7 Dave]

I bet it went like this...Blah blah blah, blah blah bloo blah.
Chris

You sure? I thought it went ...Blah blah blah blah, bloo blah blah. :confused:

[seawalkersee]

So CHriss go make some!
I actually thought about it. However, I am falling behind fast on my other stuff. I jst got a new postion added to my already full plate at work. There is a possibility of my second child on the way (this may hamper my shootout appearance) and I am just running out of space. IF I had the correct thickness of metal here I could possibly make a pair or two but the more I think about it, borrow a set of heads, have them welded up, port them, and go. You can see a cutaway of dan slys head on this very site. Print that and take it to a machine shop that fixes heads and they will be able to help you. Then plop them on your ride and return the other set.

Chris

[Rick Mink]

Actually, what happened was I had the guy who knew the guy, do some work for me and he really messed it up. now I ve had this guy do work for me before and liked the results, albiet very expensive. It just happened that I droped off my griffen rad to have a bracket welded to it to mount my front mount ic. Two days later the delaware river overflows and puts his shop underwater. about 4 foot under water. about two months go by and he's finally up and running again. so he calls me up and tells me that he got it completed, but it was a struggle. So I ask how does it look?? and he says " well she aint pretty but it'll work" now ~~~??

so I make arrangements to go pick up my rad. ok, let me say that I am by no means a welder, but those were the ugliest ~~~~in welds that I have ever seen in my life. When I asked he ~~~ he sadi that he didn't want to burn out his welder so he would only weld and inch or so at a time. ok, now for the kicker. I ask him how much and he says $150. Holy cow!! Why was it so expensive?? "well I had to special order the material for the brackets, and it's a special order item and can only get it in really long lengths" what total and utter bs!! the brackets were made from 1/8 aluminum angle 2 x 2. I got some at Home D a few weeks earlier in a nice 2ft section for less than $10. Then he tries telling me than he has all these hours fabing this thing up. ok, again BS. I brought in the rad and i/c had a template of where everything war to go, and even had the locations scribed on the rad end tanks. At this point I notice these shiny new aluminium universal brackets from Be-cool hanging on the wall for $20 and they look a million times better than ones he fabbed up. Looking at the bill I noticed than he added a line for r&d. Weld a bracket here and here, what r&d. added two lines for material a total of $70. I have to be honest here guys, I totally lost it. I have no problems paying someone to do work for me but I really expect to get what I pay for. I mean its one thing if I'm paying a buddy of mine to try something out. I know the risks and except them when I do that but it's another thing entirely when you have a reputable, or so you think, shop do a service for you, totally ~~~~ it up, and then have the balls to charge you triple of what it should have cost. My local rad shop looked at the work and laughed. he thought I did it. When I aske him he said he would of done that for $50. I took every bit of control I have not to grab that shiney anodisied rad fan off the wall of his, jump over the counter and slice his nipples off. Needless to say, I didnt pay 150 for the job. and that sob will never see another dime of mine. I've easily spent 5k with this guy over the years. what a prick. so it was really a lot more like blah blah blah blah blah you screwed up my ~~~~ you prick I'm not sending you any business eat me blah. so sorry to get anyones hopes up.

Rick

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

jump over the counter and slice his nipples off

haha Ok I cant stop laughing!