How do I evacuate R-12???

sizemoremk

Registered User
I am in the middle of motor mounts, and may have to pull engine to get to some rounded off bolts...

The A/C works, so I'd like to put the R-12 back in, is there some kind of kit available that will allow me to save the R-12, and put it back in?

If not, how can I get it out legally (or maybe illegally :eek: ) I mean it does have to come out... and the engine is jacked up and motor mounts are out, it is the upper braket that has rounded bolts.

I've heard that R12 really aint bad for the OZONE, but more of a political thing...

Kinda like cats and egr... Lets rob power by restrictig flow, and gunking up the intake, so we can use more gas to overcome the losses.... darn tree huggers...

Anyway, any ideas???

Thanks guys!
 
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i would go to a local shop and have them pull the r12 out or fold the compressor out of the way so it doesnt have to be unhooked from the hoses
 
sizemoremk said:
it is the upper braket that has rounded bolts.
Anyway, any ideas??? Thanks guys!

When I changed out my 93 Mounts I had the same problem with the drivers side. I was able to leave the Upper bracket on and assemble the mount in place. I attached the mount to the bottom bracket and rotated it into place. Had to lift the motor up some but it worked. It took awhile but was able to get everything set. Replaced with solid mounts so I figured I was not going back there for quite some time. Had the heads off at the time, and had to cut a spare ¾” wench off to 5” long to tighten the bolt back up, but it all came great. Good luck
 
Flip said:
When I changed out my 93 Mounts I had the same problem with the drivers side. I was able to leave the Upper bracket on and assemble the mount in place. I attached the mount to the bottom bracket and rotated it into place. Had to lift the motor up some but it worked. It took awhile but was able to get everything set. Replaced with solid mounts so I figured I was not going back there for quite some time. Had the heads off at the time, and had to cut a spare ¾” wench off to 5” long to tighten the bolt back up, but it all came great. Good luck

How did you get he old mount offf the upper braket???

I can't fit anything in there to get it off... That ay be an opion.

And if I could I would take it to the A/C guy, but the that isn;t an option.
 
You should have enough play with the rubber hoses to simply tie the compressor off with everything intact. It won't move very much, but by pulling the coolant bottle and lifting the engine up some, you should have enough room to get to the bracket bolts.

One trick which will help a lot is to take the 2 10mm bolts off the bottom bracket and rotate the pieces around. Do this when removing and installing the mount. The big nut on top is very tight and will be hard to work with with the mount in the car. I'd suggest a vise or workbench for that. :cool:
 
sizemoremk
When I removed my engine I left the a/c intact & charged. I unbolted the compressor and tied it to the side. There was enough slack in the lines. Had the overflow bottle & air cleaner removed (1990). If you do it that way, make sure you torque the compressor bolts evenly upto the proper torque. A couple pics attached to show you what I did. Just doing that may give enough room for the motor mount bolts, if that is the side you are having trouble with.

Hope this helps
Later
Denny
 

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TbirdSCFan said:
You should have enough play with the rubber hoses to simply tie the compressor off with everything intact. It won't move very much, but by pulling the coolant bottle and lifting the engine up some, you should have enough room to get to the bracket bolts.

One trick which will help a lot is to take the 2 10mm bolts off the bottom bracket and rotate the pieces around. Do this when removing and installing the mount. The big nut on top is very tight and will be hard to work with with the mount in the car. I'd suggest a vise or workbench for that. :cool:

Oh, I thought you meant you left the bracket in place, and replaced the mount with it still in there...

These mounts were both in 2 separate peices, VERY worn!

The new oil filter, with less than 10 miles on it, already had some of the paint removed from rubbing on the subframe.

I've got the engine raised up as much as possible without removing tranny, the cowling has been removed also. I figured the next step is to try pullig the engine.

I do have some room from the bottom, but just cant get it loose.... yet...
 
sizemoremk said:
How did you get he old mount offf the upper braket???

I can't fit anything in there to get it off... That ay be an opion.

I want to say that I backed off the top single nut with an open-end wench using just a 1/8 of a turn if that. That’s why I cut down an extra wench that I had to get more swing. After the nut came off I lifted the motor just enough to pop it out of the upper bracket. Then pulled the mount and lower bracket out. I want to say it took about 2 hours to change that side out. I did have the heads and everything else off the motor. Was not any fun…
 
sizemoremk said:
Oh, I thought you meant you left the bracket in place, and replaced the mount with it still in there...
Yes, if I didn't state it, thats with the mount and brackets loose from the engine and frame. It gives you room to move the pieces out w/o having to raise the engine as high.

The bolt which gave me some trouble was the rear upper bracket bolt and I took a set of extensions, a swivel, and 6 sided deep socket, and cheater bar over a ratchet to get it loose. The other 2 upper front bracket bolts were accsssible with a ratchet so they came right off. The lower bracket through bolt required a 1/2" drive 13mm 6-sided socket and breaker bar to get loose. It was rather tight.
 
Both of mine were really bad off broken.... I didn't have to cut anything...

The passenger side was not very bad, got it off in no time.

The bolt on the upper front of the upper bracket, and the lower front stud are the problem... It is jacked waaay up and I have room form the top and bottom, but they are beyond rounded off now... Which is why I need to pull the engine to get to em...
 
Before you goto all the extra work, goto Sears and see if they have those sockets that "Bite" into the bolts. Can someone tell him the name of those special sockets?? They are a life saver...

BTW, I hear Refridgerant isn't something you want to breathe.. :(
 
BobGPz said:
Before you goto all the extra work, goto Sears and see if they have those sockets that "Bite" into the bolts. Can someone tell him the name of those special sockets?? They are a life saver...

BTW, I hear Refridgerant isn't something you want to breathe.. :(

I have a whole nother post about that.... I've got them "bolt outs" from sears, and wore em out already... They're going back to Sears!
 
If CarQuest is in your area they have a set of sockets that bite rounded off bolt heads really well. I learned about them while doing engine mounts... You have to pick the size that will not slide over the bolt head that is just a little small and then drive it on. That is easier said than done because you may not have a good shot at it. Get creative with wood and baby sledge. It helps to use all 1/2 drive with impact sockets and cheater bar to break things loose without violence. (wobble extensions and ujoints are a must) I had a regular 3/8 drive socket crack down the side, expand and rip the corners off the bolt. That's when I bought the above mentioned set. It worked. Beer, don't forget the beer.
 
nightcoupe said:
If CarQuest is in your area they have a set of sockets that bite rounded off bolt heads really well. I learned about them while doing engine mounts... You have to pick the size that will not slide over the bolt head that is just a little small and then drive it on. That is easier said than done because you may not have a good shot at it. Get creative with wood and baby sledge. It helps to use all 1/2 drive with impact sockets and cheater bar to break things loose without violence. (wobble extensions and ujoints are a must) I had a regular 3/8 drive socket crack down the side, expand and rip the corners off the bolt. That's when I bought the above mentioned set. It worked. Beer, don't forget the beer.


Those are what the "bolt outs" are...
 
I had 50/50 luck with tying up the A/C. Once it worked. On another car it started leaking as soon as it was un-bolted from the motor. :eek:
 
Did I mention earlier that you do NOT want to use 12pt sockets? They will surely round off bolt heads... :(
ONLY use 6 Point sockets on this job..
 
BobGPz said:
Did I mention earlier that you do NOT want to use 12pt sockets? They will surely round off bolt heads... :(
ONLY use 6 Point sockets on this job..

It was too late... I used them already...

I have since been out to get some 6pt sockets...
 
R-12 and bolts

If you are going back with R-12, an A/C shop is your only choice. They have a refigerant recovery machine that will remove and store the refrigerant, and can put it back in. Due to the high cost of R-12, it might be better to go ahead and convert to R-134a or some other alternative. I did mine to 134, and the results were decent...though not as efficient as R-12, at least it is available and I can service the system without worries.

As for the motor mounts, I went thru this myself on the driver's side too. I don't remember how I did it, but I think I just had to take the steering coupler apart and out of the way, and with the motor fully jacked up by a board under the oil pan, I was able to get the pieces out and in without major diassembly.

Too bad about the bolts. Since there is no room to work in there, not many of the desperate tricks I have done over the years would work...but I will relate some last-ditch efforts anyway.
If there is a nut you can get to, you might be able to crack it with a nutcracker tool.
If the bolt head can be gotten to, I have used a dremel tool and a cutoff wheel to grind a bolt head down to the next lower size. This takes a lot of doing, and space to work in..
Lots of WD-40 and a pencil torch sometimes can make bolts come loose. Heat it up good, then spray it down with lube. Careful though, WD is flammable!
I have on one occasion, taken a big hammer and beaten a smaller socket on. Just make sure it is not a socket that you care to keep.
If you can get access to a welder, just put a throwaway socket on there and tack weld what you can.
Good luck.
Scott
 
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