Need Rocker torque

Dahoopd

Registered User
Can someone tell me what the rocker torque or the steps to reinstalling the stock rockers is. Do I just wrench them down. I have the heads back on and did a search and it gave me 268 posts but no info. Thanks for the support.
 
Paleeeeeeeze

Guys, Please let me know. I can get the rockers bolted down and the valve covers back on. Im standing here with my finger in my nose....................
 
Not sure which you need so,
Rocker Arm COVERS are: 80 - 106 Inch lbs. (INCHES not Ft lbs) I used some thread sealer so the things don't loosen up and start leaking all over.

Rocker Arm Fulcrum Bolts - Step 1: 5 - 11 FOOT lbs
Step 2: 18 - 26 FOOT lbs

PICK A WINNER! :p :D
 
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Ya need to be more careful with the search. Make sure you try and narrow down the group to like the Technical Forum.

I got 7 hits for "torque rocker bolts" in the Tech Forum.

These two have the most info. Note in the posts there is a procedure for torquing these down. Bob has the torque but you also need to position the cam properly when doing the initial torque.


http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30828&highlight=torque+rocker+bolts

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21715&highlight=torque+rocker+bolts
 
Mike8675309 said:
Bob has the torque but you also need to position the cam properly when doing the initial torque.

Uh, Oh oh... :(
I just gently tighten'd them down and then got out the torque wrench too them. I didn't turn the HB (Cam) at all when doing this. Is that why I have a noisy lifter now? Thought it was just from being apart for a while and the assembly lube I put on ends of pushrods. They are non-adjustable, so once the rocker arm bolts are screwed in all the way on the head and then torqued, should it make a difference wether there was pressre on the cam lobe???
 
Still misunderstood....please help

I am unsure what this means. Can someone explain it better. Also, dont I risk HD bolt breaking by turning it to get these done. I am sorry for everyone having to answers that may be dumb to you. But thats why I come here...to soak the knowledge and learn. Thanks for the patience.
 
I don't think I should answer this one as I may have done mine improperly.. :(
..But I think Mike is saying that the cam must be turned -via the HB (Clockwise as to not loosen the HB Bolt) bolt- so the "Lobe or "Lift" of the cam is NOT on the lifter, that way when you torque down the rocker bolts they are not under pressure -giving you a false reading- from the valve spring. Make sense?
 
That seems to be the intent of the notation.

The preliminary torque value should be applied to the fulcrum (the thing holding the rocker down) bolt when the cam is such that the lifter is riding on the base of the cam, not the lift. Thus the minimum amount of pressure against the rocker.

To achieve this you need to rotate the camshaft for set of valves you do initial torque on. This can be done by turning the crankshaft if you have the timing gears all assembled.

Once this initial torque is set, then the final torque can be set without care for what position the camshaft is in.
 
Push Rods dont spin

I was under the impression that the rods must be able to spin after the rockers are torqued. Am I doing it wrong. The lifter is all of the way in the valley and the valve closed. I have tried 3 times and they still dont spin and I havent even gotten to the final torque setting.
 
** Anyone ** help the boy out a bit here.

Is it correct that when the cam is so the lifter is off the lobe, the push rods will still be "tight" and not easy to spin?

I.E. with the lifter off the lobe, is the pushrod as loose as it will ever be, but it is not loose enough to spin.
 
The lifters/pushrods will be tight. They are under pre-load.

It is not entirely necessary to rotate the motor as you do this. The reason that it is recommended to initially torque the bolts with the valves closed (rotating the motor) is so that you don't get the fulcrums wedged somewhat crooked while forcing the valves open. I've seen rockers that were tightened down without rotating the motor and I've actually seen some fulcrums that have cracked off the aluminum alignment bosses on the head and forcing misalignment of the rockers/valve tips. :eek: This was from someone jamming the bolts down without aligning the rockers as they were doing it.

So the factory recomendation is made to avoid this "lack of common sense" error. It has nothing to do with the torque specs and tightness of the bolt themselves. If you torqued the bolts to 25ftlbs, then you will not have issues with valve train noise due to a loose rocker. You may have some other proplem.

Also, for those who are picky, the additional amount that you turn the torque wrench to achieve specified torque after you achieve general tightness is not inluded in the 1/2 to 1 turn past contact that is required for lifter preload. The 1/2 to 1 full turn is a measurement of the amount of preload on the lifter. After the bolt is generally tight (less than 10 ftlbs) the rest of the torque value is merely stretch of the threads in the head used to maintain tension on the bolt and has nothing to do with the pre-load on the lifter. But I digress.....
 
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You Da man!

Dave,

Thanks for the patience man. I did what you said. I got under the hood and wreched them down. I contacted a buddy also that has been a certified master mechanic with Ford for the past 17 years. He said.......Just bolt them down to 22-25 lbs. This is the first time I have had to do this. Thanks for the help. We will see if they hold up to the 6000 rpm MASH! DUMP! SHIFT this pig is going to get when its done.
 
XR7 Dave said:
....It is not entirely necessary to rotate the motor as you do this. The reason that it is recommended to initially torque the bolts with the valves closed (rotating the motor) is so that you don't get the fulcrums wedged somewhat crooked while forcing the valves open.....

Wheeehhhhuuuuu!! I can sleep better now:D
Glad I don't have to take all that stuff off to re-do the rocker bolts..Thanks :)
 
Bob, don't start sleeping yet...

Dave - either you know something I don't, or it's the other way round ;) I may be overly cautious, but I've always strictly followed the procedure of turning each cylinder to TDC (on compression stroke) before installing the rockers. It's my understanding that the reason for this is that if the lifter is riding up on the cam lobe, you won't get accurate torque readings or be able to check preload because you will essentially be compressing the valve spring as you tighten the bolt.

Another way of thinking about it is, the 18-20 ft/lbs is the torque of tightening the bolt down after the rocker and pedestal are tight to the head. It should take 1/2 to 1 1/4 turns to reach this torque because this accounts for the .020-.060" of preload on the lifter. Before you tighten it, you put in the bolt by hand until there is no clearance between the pushrod, rocker, and valve stem. But if the lifter is up on the lobe when you do this, the rocker will be suspended between the valve stem and the pushrod, and you'll have to make extra turns on the bolt to compress the valve spring, before the pedestal and rocker will become tight to the head. End result, you can't check preload. And your torque may be off because the valve spring introduced other tension.

Check out my reply in this post: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42910. It has a link to a very useful step-by-step guide from Crane.
 
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Rob Noth said:
Bob, don't start sleeping yet...

Dave - either you know something I don't, or it's the other way round ;)

Rob, perhaps we are simply approaching the problem from a different direction. There certainly is nothing wrong with following the instructions to the letter. However, discarding all "instructions", some things remain:

Suppose for a moment that a rocker is being tightened down by hand. Regardless of the position of the cam or lifter, as soon as -0- clearance is reached, you will know because the bolt will encounter resistance. Again, disregarding the position of the cam, in ANY case, this resistance will be encountered BEFORE the pedestal is tight. This is because even when the valves are closed, there is preload on the lifter. We have to agree on this point.

What happens after that will vary. If the lifter is on the back of the cam and the valve is in the closed position, you will apply force to the bolt to either a) force preload on the lifter or b) force the valve open. In either case, whether you are collapsing the lifter or opening the valve, the torque required to turn the bolt is less than 10ftlbs. I have verified this.

In the case of a) you will find that from the point of increased resistance to the point where you feel a definate "stop" as the fulcrum bottoms, is 1/2 to 1 full turn of the wrench (if the valvetraim geometry is correct). You have just set the preload. Ford states that this process should be done with the valves closed, one at a time (or in pattern if you have it), rotating the motor as you go. This point will be achieved with no more than 10ftlbs as the manual suggests. Now that you have all the preloads set, you can simply go back in one batch and torque all bolts, valve open or not, to 20ftlbs. This is the Ford specified proceedure.

However, in the case of b) and the valves are being forced open due to the fact that you are not on the back side of the cam and did not rotate the motor and tighten in sequence, you cannot check preload but you can continue if you use caution. If you make sure that the fulcrums are seating correctly in their bosses, you will notice that the torque required to overcome the spring tension is still less than 10ftlbs. So with 10ftlbs of torque you are still able to get yourself to the same position as you were in scenario a), or in other words the fulcrums tight. Now remember that the Ford manual says final torque can be done with the valves in any position, and should be 20ftlbs. If that is the case, and we have taken the clearance out of the valvetrain and "set" the fulcrums with 10ftlbs, it only stands to reason that the final torquing of 20ftlbs will end in the same result whether you followed the exact letter of the instructions or not.

What IS important to realize is that it is very easy when tightening past the tension of the springs, for the fulcrums to become cocked and you not notice as you crank away. This can and does result in irreperable damage to the fulcrum bosses (as I said I've seen some cracked). It is ALSO worthwhile to note, that if you are tightening an open valve with a stiff aftermarket spring and only have maybe 1/2 of the normal threads engaged in the head, it is possible to pull the threads out as you tighten. In any case, after the fulcrums have been seated in their bosses, it remains only to torque the bolts to 20ftlbs and the position of the valve at that point is not relevant. :)

David
 
WooHoo

This is good *****! Man am I glad I ask some dumb questions. So here goes the rest of the scenario.

I bolted the rockers via both processes. I turned the crank to where I thought the lifters should be and then cranked them down 10lbs. After that I Torqued them to 20lbs. The problem I have is that the rockers are loose on the passenger side and the drivers are snug save for a little spin in the push rods. I cranked the HD aound about 30 times and the play was still there on the passenger side and the drivers stayed the same ?????????

Whats up with that........come on boys, give me some love.
 
Dahoopd said:
This is good *****! Man am I glad I ask some dumb questions. So here goes the rest of the scenario.

I bolted the rockers via both processes. I turned the crank to where I thought the lifters should be and then cranked them down 10lbs. After that I Torqued them to 20lbs. The problem I have is that the rockers are loose on the passenger side and the drivers are snug save for a little spin in the push rods. I cranked the HD aound about 30 times and the play was still there on the passenger side and the drivers stayed the same ?????????

Whats up with that........come on boys, give me some love.

How many headgaskets do you use on the passenger side? :rolleyes:

I give up man, that is not supposed to happen.
 
Dave, sounds like we're both right! I know that I always err on the side of caution with working on the car. It probably takes me ten times longer to do a job because I'm so meticulous :D BTW in case b) that you mentioned, I guess if you were putting the heads back together without changing the geometry, and you already know the pushrods are the right length, then it makes sense you could just bolt them down to the right torque without needing to check preload. Darn, that could have saved me some effort last time I had it apart!

Hoop - if every rocker on one side is loose, and the other side is correct, I'd have to wonder if something is different with that head. Did you surface the heads or block, or change the cam? Is it torqued down properly, to the same specs as the other side?
 
No!

I only had the heads resurfaced. I didnt change the cam or anything else. I did replace the gaskets with FelPro. I bought the heads off of here and they were in bad shape when I bought them. The had mudd all jammed up in the holes. I had them checked out when they were redone. Nothing came up with the machine shop. I can actually move the rockers side to side a little.

Can the lifters maybe not be pumped up or something to cause this. I wouldnt think that would be the problem.
 
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