Domestic marketing misfits...

plev72

Registered User
I'm sure a lot of you have noticed as I have that the American manufacturers (although Chrysler now has some good ones) always seem to be behind the Japanese and Europeans in terms of 4 and 6 cylinder performance. Just for point of example... the new 500 using the Taurus V6 that still puts out a whopping 200 hp... I've been looking enviously at the Nissan/Infiniti 3.5l that puts out 280 hp and only slightly less torque.... compared with the Ford 4.0l that puts out just over 200 hp. Then I took a look at the mileage... and big surprise, the G35/Nissan 350z isn't getting much better horsepower than a Mustang with a 4.6l 8-cylinder... end result, I would wager people are purchasing the high powered 6s thinking better gas mileage... and in the end, all they are getting is more wear and tear...

Did that rant make sense?? Anyway, my point is, there should be some way for the domestic manufacturers to point out the fact that while the high HP import 4 and 6s are getting great HP #s, they are generally doing so at the expense of mileage... and a good old American V8 pushing the same HP is getting nearly the same mileage and should have better durability...

Or is none of that true any longer???
 
It's not all about the HP and mileage. I think that package size and weight is a much bigger factor. If you ever get a chance, take a look at a 4.6 sitting on the floor next to a Jap V6. Now pick one of them up. You and a big friend can pick up a fully dressed Jap V6. It would take 4 of you to pick up the 4.6.

I don't buy that smaller motors result in more wear. Our V6's outlast 5.0's and make more power doing it. I've pulled 3.8's apart with 200K miles on them that show minimal wear. Sure the 3.8 is a pig compared to the new stuff, but my point is still valid.

I'm not a fan of SAAB, but they have been doing the turbo 4 in all their cars for years with great success. Sure the cars don't melt your underwear but they do perform well and have proven reliable.
 
I have to agree with you plev. I dont really care a whole lot about the size of an engine I care more with its HP or HP potential. I don't really see the small motors as having much potential to the average joe. I also think its sad that WRX's get the same average MPG as Vettes. I know I say that a lot but I don't think people are listening.
 
Chevy has done amazing things with their SB.

I think that the LS1 and the new LS2 as well as the LS6 in the outgoing Z06 are amongst the best OHV engines on the market.

They've primarily stuck with the OHV design due to the fact that a DOHC V-8 would nessesitate a taller hood. They wanted the vette to be low and sleek. The OHV design allows them to save Inches in engine height. Yet, through the use of consistant breathing and cylinder to cylinder repeatability, they've designed an engine that feels "Cammy" and runs very efficiently.

HP always has a psychological effect on people, they often beleive that High Hp automatically means a faster car. But an engine that is peaky and produces that HP in the high end is simply no match for everyday driving. American manufacturers have mostly focused more on Low-end torque in just about all applications, even 4- and 6 cylinder engines for the most part. By giving good off the line part throttle torque it gives the customer the impression that the engine is a powerful one. In addition because the engine doesn't need to be revved to the moon, the slower piston speeds mean engine longevity.
 
You guys missed the point, but that is ok. ;)

Let me try another angle. Try fitting a 5.4L under the hood of your SC. Go ahead. Try it. Now toss some DOHC heads on it and try again. Not gonna work. Size is important.

Wanna talk mileage? True, you are not going to get anywhere with that one. Speed costs. Plain and simple. If the CAR is lighter and more aerodynamic then mileage can go up. Just because the motor is smaller, doesn't mean better mileage. Now a lower hood line and lighter weight.....that makes a difference. Mileage is much more a function of car vehicle size and weight than it is engine displacement.

How about power? How about torque? Well, when I come across a big block V8 that will outmuscle my V6, I'll listen. Even the Viper V10 isn't significantly more powerful than my V6. Oh ya, sure, you can twin turbo the V10 and blow my V6 to bits, but that isn't the point.

My point is that the OE could be using forced induction to achieve V8 power and more while maintaining small packages, light weight, and respectable mileage.

My friend has an LS1 Camaro, (not stock) which runs 12.0's and gets 25mpg on the highway. My V6 is slower in the 1/4 but gets only 21mpg. Should I complain? No, because my car is old tech and I built most of it myself. What could the OE be doing if they put there minds to it? Well, they are not going to sell 600hp V8's in Mustangs. What they should be doing though, is be putting a forced induction V6 and I4 in the cars. There is no need for the engine bay of a Mustang to be big enough to fit a 4.6L in it. None.

Some day America will be ready for true performance, some day.... :cool:
 
Would you say for a moment though...

That HP is starting to get too high?

I mean, I look at the performance of some cars today and it's only marginally better than some cars 10 years ago (straight acceleration). WHy? HP and Torque has gone up, but so has weight. Even economy cars today are weighing dangerously close to 3000lbs. I remember that my 1993 Saturn Coupe weighs about 2300lbs and that is with an automatic.

I know that crash standards are tightening as well as consumer demand for smoother riding, quieter interior cars... but that is a large weight gain...So naturally HP HAS to increase in order to give the heavier car the same performance as earlier ones. In the end, I haven't seen mileage make much of a jump. My saturn Automatic gets 33mpg on the highway with a 124hp engine.

Certainly many economy cars these days are making more HP, 130-140-150hp-160hp+ being common place, yet, mileage is still in the low to mid 30's. Shouldn't 10-15 years of engine development and new lighter/stronger materials be having economy cars making 40+MPG????
 
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