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View Full Version : What do ya'll think of this idea for blower porting?



sizemoremk
12-02-2004, 02:20 AM
Hey guys, just some thoughts for us poor boys that can't afford the MP setups...

Take a look at the attached pic.

I was thinking that because someone with the know-how to weld on a blower case would prolly cost so much, that perhaps some of the previously discussed aluminum epoxy/filler/putty could be used in the red area, and then ported as shown.

The inlet plenum may be alot easier to have welded.

I was also thinking that is may be good because the charge has a easier path closer to the center of the rotors.

I now it isn't quite as big as the MP inlet, but just curous what ya'll think.

Would that shape cause too much turbulance, or does it really matter right there?

Do you think there would be sealing issues with this idea?

Thanks for looking guys!

trife86
12-02-2004, 02:32 AM
i dont see the pic

sizemoremk
12-02-2004, 02:42 AM
Or perhpas not have the point, and port as much possible in between...

J57ltr
12-02-2004, 05:56 PM
The middle area is not where you want to raise the area it's more on the sides so the rotors have more time to grab air b4 they seal.

Like this:

darkstar_one
12-02-2004, 07:05 PM
i think u guys are going about this the wrong way? how bout, first, raising the intake manifold, somebody wanna MOD it so it can be raised about an INCH or 2 so it can hold more air, then work ur way to the SUPERCHARGER?

Nettlesd
12-02-2004, 10:04 PM
i think u guys are going about this the wrong way? how bout, first, raising the intake manifold, somebody wanna MOD it so it can be raised about an INCH or 2 so it can hold more air, then work ur way to the SUPERCHARGER?

Randy of "Randy & Connie" already has done this. I would contact him and discuss it with him. I'm just not sure if he plans to offer this service or if he just made a few for a couple of people on the board. He's already shown a few pictures of it and it does look nice.

tbird88
12-02-2004, 11:38 PM
The middle area is not where you want to raise the area it's more on the sides so the rotors have more time to grab air b4 they seal. hehheh heh heh hehheh

he said GRAB

heh huhhuh heh hehheh


On a serious note...some blowers will create a substantial whining sound after porting.
Others will emit a loud whiiirrrrrrrrrrr-POP-BANG-cRuncH...
http://www.texasthunderbirds.com/temp/neonblower.jpg

signed: anonymous

super red91
12-03-2004, 12:27 AM
Hahaha im gonna put that as my avatar :D , Hey look im a friendly m90

XxSlowpokexX
12-03-2004, 12:58 AM
Speaking of raised intake manifolds...EVer take a look at a stock lighting or or cobra lower intake....Or even that of a roots old school style?...not much there

Randy N Connie
12-03-2004, 09:27 AM
Just a ported plenum and manifold build up is worth a min of .200
On a ported plenum and raised manifold ,you will take off well over
.500 to .750 off your time slip.I have not tested the raised manifold
on the track yet.But will be doing dyno & track testing soon.

You will get about the same et gain from a ported ,or MPII blower.
As you will get from my Stage I plenum-manifold .A min. of .200+
For $600.00.The stage II is much better at $600.00.And the
stage III manifold-plenum will make more power than a MPII blower mod.$1200.00

If you want to be on the fastest list or be one of the fastest.You will
have to modify or have your manifold-plenum professionally modified
and ported.If you want to run in the low 11.0s or 10.s.Three of the
top ten people listed on the fastest list run modified manifold & plenums.
Although not as complete as my manifold-plenum modification is now..
And as soon as the tracts open this spring,There will be more names
in the top ten running manifold-plenum mods than not.

One good thing about my parts is that they never wearout,and cost
less for the same or more power than a ported blower.

Just a M90 blower mod by itself will not get you there,unless you go
with a AR blower.I predict that soon the fastest sc will be running
a AR blower and with a Stage III manifold-plenum.I am looking and
hoping to push 325 to 350 rwhp with a stock long block sc motor.
Then I plan to later add a ported set of heads & cam.

Randy

J57ltr
12-03-2004, 10:37 AM
i think u guys are going about this the wrong way? how bout, first, raising the intake manifold, somebody wanna MOD it so it can be raised about an INCH or 2 so it can hold more air, then work ur way to the SUPERCHARGER?

Well it looks like Mike is looking for something he can do at home, and there were plenty of people that have run the stock lower manifold without modifing it and run well into the 13's. Plus there is a little more work involved in raising the floor and opening the inlet than porting the blower. You gotta start somewhere.

super red91, that's my picture so you need to pay me for using it. :D

Randy N Connie
12-03-2004, 11:02 AM
A plenum & manifold can be done at home.Just as well as porting a blower.
If you can weld and port a blower,you can modifiy a plenum & manifold.
J57ltr your just lazy. :)

RANDY

J57ltr
12-03-2004, 11:12 AM
Not lazy I just don't have any SC's anymore, Wynn has them. I have a baby on the way so I bought a Taurus. SC's are way too expensive on parts replacment so I'm sticking with El Diablo. Still a proted blower is a good start.

Jeff

Randy N Connie
12-03-2004, 11:39 AM
Jeff I know what you mean about SCs and money.I would of got into
a different car project.If I new what I do now abount a SC..

Just kidin about being lazy :)

A ported blower is a good place to start,with a larger or better
flowing blower plenum.

Porting a blower.I would enlarge & port the sides and floor.
Before raising the top center to a peak.I would port straight
across the top.And the blower plenum is just as important in
enlarging & porting as the blower intake hole.There may be more
air flow in porting the top of the blower than the back of the blower.
But of course to do a good job the intake plus blower exit need
to be ported.

I would think you can get from 20 RWHP to 50 RWHP from
porting your blower plus plenum.Depends on your other mods.

RANDY

super red91
12-03-2004, 02:09 PM
J57ltr how much for the pic :D , but on a serious note do you care if I use it? If not I will change it.
Think of it as free advertising for you blower porting, when people see it they will ask me and I can tell them ;)

sizemoremk
12-03-2004, 02:39 PM
I missed much of the conversation earlier.

I read at one point that the outsides and bottom of the rotors actually have a tendancy to push the air away before grabbing the air to pull in, which is why "they" raise the port up. So the air is comming from "behind" into the rotors, rather than fighting the pulses from the spinning rotors?

I would think that there would be less resistance with the "in-between" cut, which might allow a less restrictive flow directly into the rotors.

I know it may not help much with volume of air, but may help the velocity of the air, hence being more of a torque improvement rather than a HP inprovement. If I have an accurate undertanding that velocity = torque and volume = HP. Any correctons on this idea are welcome as well.

My idea was also based on what might be the easiest to do...

I do have a spare intake manifold, and return plenum, and was planning on openining them up also.

But I can't weld, so what ever I come up with will have to be relatively easy to take to somone that can weld, and have it ready for them to do quickly, easily, and cheaply.

RandyNConnie, Do you have a price listing for all of your intake porting services, and a good description of what it is you do for the different stages? As I do have a spare intake manifold and return plenum....


Thanks guys!

darkstar_one
12-03-2004, 02:47 PM
J57ltr how much for the pic :D , but on a serious note do you care if I use it? If not I will change it.
Think of it as free advertising for you blower porting, when people see it they will ask me and I can tell them ;)

what happened to fair use? if we had to pay for everything we use, our avatars, and other stuff this would suck ***.

But on another note, Ima find me a spare manifold and intake and return plenums and ima port them myself and have the manifold raised by a couple of the machine shops here in LOS ANGELES, or should i say, a couple of the hundred machine shops here in los angeles, see which one costs less to do it, I tried welding aluminum and i just dont have the patience to do it. Plus i dont have a PLASMA cutter to cut the top of the manifold and raise it, Well anyways, i think it should be like this,

Start with the HEADS, PORT AND POLISH, open those bad boys up, then the manifold, then the plenums, and then the SUPERCHARGER, then u get a big *** intercooler and re route the pipes.

J57ltr
12-03-2004, 03:15 PM
My theroy is based on what later generations of Eaton blowers have done. Since they have the R&D $, they can hire guys that are most likely be able to come up with the best system. And have the tools to do it.

First I think the inlet should be raised up. Raising it just in the middle allows an easier path for the air on the outlet to escape faster. There also needs to be a blend in the back to allow for slightly more timing, like on 94-95 blowers. The area on the floor also needs to have a peak almost all the way to the inlet. I have some pics on my laptop that I'll have to post to see what I'm talking about. Then there is the outlet.....TBC

Super 91 I don't care just making fun.

sizemoremk
12-03-2004, 03:20 PM
Didn't mention before, but I must stick with the stock hood. So with a raised top, I don't know what kind of option I have for a raised intake manifold, I just figured I'd open up the return plenum and the intake connections...

I want to maintain the "stock look" of my 35th, so I plan to keep my mods in the SC porting, heads, cam, an maybe a double IC, so that it looks pretty much stock.

I can see doing heads, cam, and intake first; but I will be doing all of these together, as I am modding my spare top end and will swap everything out at once. And getting my heads O-ringed, the shop here said they'd o-ring em for about $180. I hope to get a huge night and day difference from doing all the mods at once?

I also forgot to menition I gots me a small 50 HP shot of nitrous already installed, courtesy of MR. J57LTR :D But I don't think the 50 shot is doing much but cooling the charge at this point... I'll prolly go to the 75ish shot after the 10% pulley and the Oringed heads.

I'm rambling now, but just wanted to mention that the rasied intake probably isn't much of an option with a stock hood.

sizemoremk
12-03-2004, 03:24 PM
Raising it just in the middle allows an easier path for the air on the outlet to escape faster.


I'm don;t understand what you mean here...

J57ltr
12-03-2004, 03:29 PM
Like you have it in your picture, where it peaks between the rotors.

Jeff

MIKE 38sc
12-03-2004, 05:41 PM
The raised intake roof does not raise the mounting posistion of the blower, so that has nothing to do any hood reqiurements. Theres about 1" you can raise the roof without moving the blower. Just the enlargements to the intake manifold system on the SC that Randy and I did on the first ones(not including the raised roof) proved on the dyno to be a very substantial improvement in power. Just ask David Dalke about it, he's the one that dyno tested it and posted about it. Randy and I had no dyno to test it on, but we knew it would work and David proved it for us.
The SC engine in its stock form is so choked down by its intake and exhaust that it really does'nt fully utalize the benefits of the stock blower much less a higher output blower.
There are things going on there that is misunderstood as to why a better blower is working better on this engine with a stock intake manifold. The better blower works alittle better INSPITE of those problems(but has a different set of drawbacks). But a better intake manifold setup with a stock blower will outperform a high output blower on the stock intake manifold. I'm only talking about the Eaton blowers here and have no speculation on the other brand blowers.

J57ltr
12-03-2004, 05:46 PM
How did you raise the roof of the manifold without raising the blower at all? There is only about 5/8 to 3/4" before you hit the bottom of the blower, especially on the early model.

Jeff

Randy N Connie
12-03-2004, 07:15 PM
The stage III manifold has been raised 1.300 .The blower is raised 1.200.
With raised blower top ,with M90,you would need a raised hood.
the AR blower set much lower.You dont need a stageIII.

The manifold-plenums that Mike helped to design & did the welding on,
Stage I , Stage II.The blowers set at stock height. The stage I
uses stock IC tubes to bolt to.And the stage II has a 2.750id IC tube.
And both fit under the stock hood.

Didnt mean to hy-jack your post.But if you have the tools to do
weld build up and machine a blower case.You should look into doing
a manifold-plenum mod.Blower porting and plenums ,manifold go
hand in hand one only breaths as good as the part its bolted to.

I don't have any time in porting a blower, But I would listen to what
jeff has to say.His description of blower porting is close to the way
my MPII looks.

Thanks Randy

sizemoremk
12-03-2004, 11:03 PM
What is done to your stage I, and how much does it cost, and woudl you need my core?

Thanks!

Randy N Connie
12-04-2004, 10:11 AM
sizemoremk The plenum is cut in peices.Then weld buildup inside to change
the shape.Then 16 peices welded back together in steps as the porting progresses.

The manifold plenum bolt flange is made larger.for more air to enter
the manifold.

The Stage I looks stock.Ic tube bolt flange is bored to 2.550 or more.

Stock IC tubes can be used.But is bored out for MPs FMIC IC tubes.

Can be bored to fit IC tubes from 2.500 to 2.750 OD

The Stage I plenum-manifold that David Dalke tested and took .200
off his et.The plenums IC tube bolt flange was not bore out,it was
still stock size bore.But all the welding & porting on the plenum and
manifold were done.So If Dave would of hade the finished bore on
the plenum that we do know.Dave would of takin more than .200
off his time slip.This testing was just for the design and porting
of the manifold and plenum.No more air entered daves motor than
before,because of the plenum entrance bore.Now the bore of the
plenum has been opened , more air is entering the manifold.

Yes I would need a plenum and manifold core.

I would need to know what type IC tubes you plan to run now and in the future.


Price for stage I is $600.00
Stage II $650.00
Stage III $1200.00
So far I am only making them for SCCoA members.
And the ones that have signed up or attened a sc/xr7 shootout

It takes me about a 70+ hours to do a Stage I.
So I don't make much money doing this.
And I am booked up to next June right now.
So If you sent me your manifold plenum it
would be July of next year before you would
get your parts back.

You will gain power across your RPM band.

Your power band will be wider.

you will gain a lot of power on the top RPMs.

Most will not even notice that you have made this stage I mod.
The stage I looks stock.

The Stage II Manifold is same as stage I.But the stage II plenum
has a 3.000od IC tube welded to the plenum.The Stage I has the
stock IC tube flange welded back on.The stage II will Flow a lot
more air.But with the Stage II you will need to be using The
Mp FMIC tubes,or make your own IC tubes.THE Stage II & Stage III
are not bolt ons,you will need to do the IC tube fitment.

Back to your blower porting.I like to take care of all the porting or
mods of parts that do not ware out first. Then I start Moding parts
that wareout,blowers,inturnal engine parts,ect.I do it this way because
I don't have the money or time to do every mod needed to go fast,right now.
I hate it when I ware a part out before I get my other mods finished to
be fast.So I mod all castings before moding any moving parts.

Thanks Randy

J57ltr
12-04-2004, 11:51 AM
I really do like your work Randy and agree with you and have always thought that is the way to go. But like you said it is very time entensive and would mean buying the parts as spares and working on them, then making the swap.or having the car down until said work is done. Also mike doesn't have the equipment to weld his own parts, so he wants to use epoxy. There are a lot of quality epoxies out there. The one I used has the same expansion rate as aluminum and has a high enough temp that it will handle anything the blower will see. Though I am not sure that I would trist it for modifing a manifold. Your idea is great but for the meantime I think he is just looking at the blower side of things.

Jeff

C_More
12-04-2004, 04:58 PM
Here are some pic's of the blower I have on my car,its a very simple port but does the job and gave me alot more low end torque!It's a little thin but it sealed up nicely,let me know what you guys think I got it for dirt cheap and it is completely rebuilt.

<img src=http://cmore.realiteweb.com/cmores_pics/DSCF0408.jpg alt="">

<img src=http://cmore.realiteweb.com/cmores_pics/DSCF0404.jpg alt="">

<img src=http://cmore.realiteweb.com/cmores_pics/DSCF0410.jpg alt="">

If there are any suggestions on how to improve it let me know I didn't do the work myself, but hope I can improve the overall flow!

Chris

tbird88
12-05-2004, 02:11 PM
Here are some pic's of the blower I have on my car,its a very simple port but does the job and gave me alot more low end torque!It's a little thin but it sealed up nicely,let me know what you guys think I got it for dirt cheap and it is completely rebuilt.
If there are any suggestions on how to improve it let me know I didn't do the work myself, but hope I can improve the overall flow!

ChrisI would immediately get rid of that shoulder at the bottom of the blower inlet port. Either lay it down or at least blend it in as a radius.
On the blower outlet, open it forward and use shorter bolts to hold the snout/bearing plate on.

'bird

C_More
12-06-2004, 04:09 PM
This is what a gathered from your post, look at the pics and let me know if I understood you correctly....also I haven't done any porting on the intake manifold or the bypass plenum should these also be port matched?

J57ltr
12-06-2004, 05:54 PM
Exactly, and youy should match the inlet plenum as well.

Jeff

J57ltr
12-07-2004, 01:48 AM
Here are some pics of the differences between 89-93 and 94-95 and 98 GM M90.

Jeff

J57ltr
12-07-2004, 01:52 AM
These are all unmodified cases. and there is also a 98 GM inlet. It's upside down for easy referance to the others.

Jeff

mannysc
01-16-2005, 05:10 PM
I did this one last yr its on my car now

sizemoremk
01-25-2005, 02:55 AM
I did this one last yr its on my car now

Do you think you gained much from it?

thanks!

mannysc
01-25-2005, 11:00 AM
Do you think you gained much from it?

thanks!
well after porting heads and exh manifolds my boost droped to 10 then i ported blower and boost is back up to 13, so yes its noticeable + it really gained alot of power not just noticeable but really gained power,

no dyno test . just butt dyno and my butt was impressed.

went from hanging with mustang gt and 92 50 gt to pulling two cars on them.

but my 30 lbs injectors are maxed out. have 42s but wanted to see how far I could push them the 255 lph pump helps alot.

sizemoremk
01-25-2005, 11:31 AM
well after porting heads and exh manifolds my boost droped to 10 then i ported blower and boost is back up to 13, so yes its noticeable + it really gained alot of power not just noticeable but really gained power,

no dyno test . just butt dyno and my butt was impressed.

went from hanging with mustang gt and 92 50 gt to pulling two cars on them.

but my 30 lbs injectors are maxed out. have 42s but wanted to see how far I could push them the 255 lph pump helps alot.

HMMM, hate to see it wasn;t really my idea...

This kinda agravates me, I'm gonna quit asking questions and just try stuff. It seems that half of the ideas I see here are shot down, and may never be tried, but I was just told by everyone and his brother that it was a bad idea, now I find someone has already done it with some decent gains!

Maybe next time I have an idea (if I can ever come up with another one, LOL) I will try it, and then post about its success or failure.