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View Full Version : Trans Question - Lentech & Level Ten Perf



SilverCasket
12-09-2004, 10:06 AM
Alrighty - I've got some issues. I've had a Level Ten Trans for some time. 4 times in a year it went south. I figured they weren't building it right. I just got a Lentech and put it in, wired it up & turns out the same problem. After about 30-60 minutes of drive time, it starts spitting fluid out the dip stick. .. Now it's 40 degrees outside, but it could still be getting soo hot it does that. I don't know. That's actually what I'm asking about. Does anyone know what could cause this? I'm going to be putting a big tranny cooler in & replacing the dip stick just to see if the problem goes away. I'm hoping so. At the same time I'm also going to put a trans temp gauge in. Hopefully through all of that, I will be able to have a good year next year.

Anyway, to round it up, what are some thoughts as to what could cause this? I don't want to solely rely on the heat answer, but it could be that simple. Let me know what you's think.

Anthony

Ps - I thought this thing was fast before. One Helluva difference. I guess that other trans was really holding it up because it feels like 2 different cars. And it was fast before.

Ken Seegers
12-09-2004, 05:32 PM
Alrighty - I've got some issues. I've had a Level Ten Trans for some time. 4 times in a year it went south. I figured they weren't building it right. I just got a Lentech and put it in, wired it up & turns out the same problem. After about 30-60 minutes of drive time, it starts spitting fluid out the dip stick. .. Now it's 40 degrees outside, but it could still be getting soo hot it does that. I don't know. That's actually what I'm asking about. Does anyone know what could cause this? I'm going to be putting a big tranny cooler in & replacing the dip stick just to see if the problem goes away. I'm hoping so. At the same time I'm also going to put a trans temp gauge in. Hopefully through all of that, I will be able to have a good year next year.

Anyway, to round it up, what are some thoughts as to what could cause this? I don't want to solely rely on the heat answer, but it could be that simple. Let me know what you's think.

Anthony

Ps - I thought this thing was fast before. One Helluva difference. I guess that other trans was really holding it up because it feels like 2 different cars. And it was fast before.
Anthony,
I think your problem is heat related. I would not run a tranny with a non lock up converter without a external tranny cooler. The only other thing it could be is the TV Cable is not adjusted properly, but usually causes shifting problems.
Or maybe it is your luck....j/k :D
Later
Ken

sail7seas
12-09-2004, 05:39 PM
Heat can also cause leaks, mine leaked 1/2 quart every 3 days.
see pic below for leaky seals
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9396

David Neibert
12-09-2004, 07:10 PM
Anthony,

I've never heard of fluid bubbling out of the dipstick tube. But I suppose it could get hot enough within 30 minutes of driving to do that. My Lentech with 9.5 2800 stall non locking converter and fixed line pressure strip terminator VB (on turbo car) reaches 150-180 degrees within 10 minutes and I've got a pretty big cooler w/fan.

So there's no telling how hot yours is getting without a cooler.

David

XR7 Dave
12-09-2004, 07:40 PM
If it is getting hot enough to come back up the dispstick I'd think that the fluid is probably getting cooked and should be completely flushed once you get the cooler on there.

Dirtyd0g
12-09-2004, 07:51 PM
Sounds like the cooler in the radiator is restricted as well. It needs a big cooler ,but your problem is more involved than that to run that hot. I always recommend 3/8 cooler lines and a massive external cooler.
Alan

SilverCasket
12-09-2004, 08:40 PM
Cool. Great responses. .. I'm pretty convinced it's a heat problem. Cuz at 70mph on the Turnpike constant for a short while & I'm pulling over because of the smoke from the trans fluid dripping out of the dip stick onto the headers. ... So I'll definitely flush it when I put the cooler in. And the lines are 3/8" on in/out of the cooler. I'll look into the lines on the trans now. ... And the clog in the cooler on the radiator is something to check as well.

I'm just glad noone feels like I did when it happened (Ken's feeling), just damn bad luck. ... But it's like lighting striking twice. Just didn't seem right. .. I guess it's time for the cooler & go from there.

OK NOW. .. What about skipping the radiator cooler? I know there's discussions on this already. And I know the common rule. But, if the radiator cooler is clogged in some sort, then would it be real bad for me to test out the cooler by itself?

Anthony

392Bird
12-09-2004, 08:58 PM
I am running a 3500 stall with a non loclup, and two 24,0000 GVW coolers, and it gets up to 180 fairly quick, even at 50f outside.

David Neibert
12-10-2004, 12:54 AM
OK NOW. .. What about skipping the radiator cooler? I know there's discussions on this already. And I know the common rule. But, if the radiator cooler is clogged in some sort, then would it be real bad for me to test out the cooler by itself?



Anthony,

I don't know where people are getting this info about needing to go thru the factory cooler so that you don't overcool the transmission. With a loose stall, small diameter non locking converter it's going to get hot real quick, and there is no need to use the radiator to pre-heat or warm the fluid. My transmission warms up faster than the coolant does anyhow.

BTW, I've researched this question about cooling requirements on several of the transmission company websites. Here's what I found.

Lentech:

(paraphrased)Reccomends using a 20,000 gvwr cooler on all it's transmissions. Heat is the enemy bla bla bla, Ideal operating temp of 200 degrees, max temp 240 degrees. Place cooler where it can get max air flow or use a fan on the cooler.

Art Carr:

What is optimum operating temperature for my transmission?

The cooler the better. Although there is no optimum temperature to operate an Art Carr Performance transmission, heat is the enemy of any automatic transmission. In any performance enhancements to the drive train systems you will create more heat. The torque converter and transmission both generate heat that needs to be carried away. Art Carr Performance sells a high performance cooler that is highly recommended on all performance applications. We also sell a deep aluminum pan kit to help keep the fluid cool. To insure the fluid does not overheat and damage your high performance transmission we also recommend a transmission oil temperature gauge. These items will provide a measure of insurance to protect your investment in a high performance automatic transmission.

TCI:

Should I use an external transmission cooler in conjunction with the oil cooler supplied in the radiator?

Answer: Unless operating in an environment where the outside temperature is below 0F, you should cap off the radiator cooler line openings and run your cooler lines directly to a new cooler mounted in front of the radiator. This allows the transmission to have its own cooling system and doesn't allow the engine water temperature to heat the fluid.

What is the correct size cooler for my application?

Answer: Unlike a lot of items you buy for your vehicle, bigger is predominately better when it comes to transmission coolers. The answer would be as big as you can get or to run multiple coolers in series, again staying away from the factory radiator cooler lines.



It would appear that nobody from these three companies thinks it's a good idea to use the cooler in the radiator unless your operating in a sub zero environment.

David

SilverCasket
12-10-2004, 08:37 AM
Perfect. .. I can dig that. It'll be much easier to setup that way anyhow. I think I'll drop that in tonight. ... Now for the temp gauge. Anyone have a quick reference for purchase and/or install?

Anthony

David Neibert
12-10-2004, 09:19 AM
Anthony,

I'm using AutoMeter #3357 on both my cars. Here's a link to it from Summit.

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=100&Ntk=PartSearch&Ntt=ATM-3357&x=13&y=7

The sender screws into one of the drain ports on the trans pan and one wire runs from the sender to the gauge. Then you need to supply keyed 12 volt power and lighting power to the gauge from the dash. Hooking the gauge up to the dash lighting so it will dim or brighten along with the rest of the dash is the biggest pain.

I mounted mine in a dual pillar pod along with a matching fuel pressure gauge, ATM-3363. Here's a link for it.

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=100&Ntk=PartSearch&Ntt=ATM-3363&x=11&y=8

David

Joisey Jim
12-10-2004, 01:26 PM
I have a set of AutoMeter white faced analog guages in my triple pod to match a white faced main gauge cluster. One of them is a trans. temp gauge & I drilled a 1/2" hole in the back of the pan for the sensor. I forget the color, but you can splice into the dash dimmer wire which runs behind the panel below the steering wheel. I have quite a few bolt-on mods on my '94 + a Transgo shift kit and, with a 24" permacool tubular cooler across the rad opening (in series with the rad cooler) mine normally runs around 180 deg. But in traffic in the middle of summer it will go as high as 210-220 deg. I haven't noticed any fluid color or smell problems and I change the pan fluid every 10k and then drain the converter every 30k, using Mercon V. So is 220 deg. too high? I've thought about putting a plate type cooler sandwiched between the rad & condensor, so that it gets the benefit of the cooling fans when they run. Would that be better?
Thanks, Jim.

SilverCasket
12-27-2004, 12:31 PM
Alright. A dilemma for all you with Trans coolers.

Here's a layout of the coolers I may be installing.

Oil/Transmission Cooler with 3/8'' FPT Tube Ends with Fan
771-12311 Coil Size: 1-1/2''h x 10-1/2''w x 14''l
10'', 10 Blade, 1000cfm Fan $139.99 (Just ordered it, will be here in 2 days)

771-12315 Coil Size: 1-1/2''h x 10-1/2''w x 18''l
10'', 4 Blade, 1250cfm Fan $159.99

771-12318 Coil Size: 1-1/2''h x 10-1/2''w x 21''l
10'', 4 Blade, 1250cfm Fan $169.99 (Have it, can't get it in)

. ... About 5 months ago I purchased the 21" cooler (never got to installing it) and finally just went to put it in. It really is hard to fit anywhere without cutting up ALOT. .. So, I just ordered the 14" up top there from Jegs.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1135&prmenbr=361

... Being not well versed in sizes of trans coolers, can anyone tell me if the 14" should be enough. My buddy told me that the 21" is overkill and not necessary, but he also doesn't have an SC. So if you have any idea, all information is appreciated.

Thanks,
Anthony

David Neibert
12-27-2004, 01:15 PM
Alright. A dilemma for all you with Trans coolers.

Here's a layout of the coolers I may be installing.

Oil/Transmission Cooler with 3/8'' FPT Tube Ends with Fan
771-12311 Coil Size: 1-1/2''h x 10-1/2''w x 14''l
10'', 10 Blade, 1000cfm Fan $139.99 (Just ordered it, will be here in 2 days)

771-12315 Coil Size: 1-1/2''h x 10-1/2''w x 18''l
10'', 4 Blade, 1250cfm Fan $159.99

771-12318 Coil Size: 1-1/2''h x 10-1/2''w x 21''l
10'', 4 Blade, 1250cfm Fan $169.99 (Have it, can't get it in)

. ... About 5 months ago I purchased the 21" cooler (never got to installing it) and finally just went to put it in. It really is hard to fit anywhere without cutting up ALOT. .. So, I just ordered the 14" up top there from Jegs.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1135&prmenbr=361

... Being not well versed in sizes of trans coolers, can anyone tell me if the 14" should be enough. My buddy told me that the 21" is overkill and not necessary, but he also doesn't have an SC. So if you have any idea, all information is appreciated.

Thanks,
Anthony

Anthony,

The cooler you bought should be fine. Here's a picture of where I mounted mine on the 93, in the driver's side fender well beneath the battery. I bolted it directly to the lower valance and had to cut a hole for air flow.

David

SilverCasket
12-27-2004, 02:19 PM
I've seen your setup. It looks nicely done. ... But which size are you saying should be fine? The 21" that I have or do you think the 14" that I just bought?

Anthony

onequiksc
12-27-2004, 02:39 PM
FWIW, I've been using a 24,000 GVW cooler with my Lentech for almost 2 years here in Florida with no issues. I bypassed the rad cooler completely as well. :o

SilverCasket
12-27-2004, 03:29 PM
Now I don't know much about Trans coolers, so I don't really know what 24k GVW means in terms to the sizes I referenced above. If anyone can convert the sizes I listed about about the 14" cooler to GVW's, would be a help.

Thanks,
Anthony

David Neibert
12-27-2004, 06:33 PM
I've seen your setup. It looks nicely done. ... But which size are you saying should be fine? The 21" that I have or do you think the 14" that I just bought?

Anthony

Anthony,

The 14" one you recently bought should be plenty. Mine is only 10.5" X 7.5" x 1-1/2" thick. Here's a link to the one I bought.

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=100&Ntk=PartSearch&Ntt=BMM-70298&x=15&y=9

Not really sure if mine is big enough and won't know until summer....if not I'll add a 2nd one somewhere.

David

SilverCasket
12-27-2004, 07:17 PM
Cool. Then I feel better. Even if it gets me through the winter. I just want to drive it without worrying. I already got the ATM 3357 gauge set. So now I can monitor it. I'm hoping that the cooling through the rad was the problem the whole time.

Dave can you share anymore pics of your setup. I searched but couldn't find the thread where I remember seeing yours. Anyone else that can post will, all will help I'm sure.

Thanks Again! And I'm excited about driving the SC Again!
Anthony

David Neibert
12-27-2004, 07:46 PM
Anthony,

The one I posted above was for the 93 (turbo car). I wasn't able to use as large of a cooler as I wanted, because the ABS control block was in the way.

My 91 has much more room (no ABS controller in the fender) and I stacked a pair of coolers and plumbed them in series, then added an 800 CFM fan wired to run continuiously. In the winter, both cars run at about 150-160 degrees after driving for a while. It just takes the 91 much longer to heat up.

Here are some pics of the 91's cooler I took when fixing a leak (broken hose clamp) this spring.

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/trannycooler2.jpg

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/trannycooler3.jpg

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/transcooler.jpg

David

SilverCasket
12-27-2004, 11:59 PM
Man Those are GREAT Shots! Thanks. I'll be sure to post some pics of my install for others as well. .. But I'll bet (if theres room on the 92) that I'll be doing the same!

Thanks,
Anthony

David Neibert
12-28-2004, 12:44 AM
Man Those are GREAT Shots! Thanks. I'll be sure to post some pics of my install for others as well. .. But I'll bet (if theres room on the 92) that I'll be doing the same!

Thanks,
Anthony

Anthony,

Your 92 should be the same as my 91, so you will have plenty of room. Please let us know how it turns out.

David

SilverCasket
01-04-2005, 07:16 PM
WOOHOO!!! Got the trans cooler in. Capped off the bottom of the radiator. Wiring the fan in a few minutes. ...

Dave, on that Autometer gauge, I'm getting as high as the line right between 150 & 180. .. So I'm assuming that's 165. .. Now I haven't run it long on the highway, so I really won't know for a few hours how it is going to work out.

At what point should I get nervous about whether it's getting to hot or not?

I'll get some pictures on here tomorrow. Found a REALLY nice place for it.

Anthony

David Neibert
01-04-2005, 07:41 PM
WOOHOO!!! Got the trans cooler in. Capped off the bottom of the radiator. Wiring the fan in a few minutes. ...

Dave, on that Autometer gauge, I'm getting as high as the line right between 150 & 180. .. So I'm assuming that's 165. .. Now I haven't run it long on the highway, so I really won't know for a few hours how it is going to work out.

At what point should I get nervous about whether it's getting to hot or not?

I'll get some pictures on here tomorrow. Found a REALLY nice place for it.

Anthony

Anthony,

So long as it stays under 200 degrees, your good to go. In summer traffic mine will sometimes reach 200, but usually it stays right around 180. In the winter closer to 150 (on the 91 with fan always on).

The fan doesn't even come on until 160 on the cooler I just installed in the 93, so I wouldn't be concerened about 165...that still pretty cool as far as trans temps go.

Get the fan wired up, that will help the cooling more than you think.

David