Shifting Trouble STILL !!!

SuperCoupe007

Registered User
I have had a shifting trouble for some time. Replaced Clutch w/ a center force and a brand new OEM slave cylinder, about 20K miles ago.
Clutch wouldn't completely disengage, so I purchased a new OEM clutch master cylinder. Needless to say problem still exists :mad: ... When i am at a red light in first gear w/ the clutch completely pressed in, the car crawls forward a bit. I think i remember reading a post about synchros or something like that... :confused: :confused: :confused: I am tired of having to deal with that problem.. I hate having to shift into first before the car comes to a complete stop and holding the clutch in.. I think i need a rebuild kit, or something like that.. Open to every suggestion and advice,
Thanks....
:eek: :eek:
 
still sounds like a clutch problem to me or still air in the cylinder check pilot bearing too im still on original clutch 221 k miles thats unheard of most cars 100k there done, when the tranny goes bad they mostly get stuck in one gear or grind shifting mine grinds in second if i rev it much cause i bought brasss syncros instead of original ones
 
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SuperCoupe007 said:
I have had a shifting trouble for some time. Replaced Clutch w/ a center force and a brand new OEM slave cylinder, about 20K miles ago.
Clutch wouldn't completely disengage, so I purchased a new OEM clutch master cylinder. Needless to say problem still exists :mad: ... When i am at a red light in first gear w/ the clutch completely pressed in, the car crawls forward a bit. I think i remember reading a post about synchros or something like that... :confused: :confused: :confused: I am tired of having to deal with that problem.. I hate having to shift into first before the car comes to a complete stop and holding the clutch in.. I think i need a rebuild kit, or something like that.. Open to every suggestion and advice,
Thanks....
:eek: :eek:
if the creeping started at clutch rplcmnt could be someone added lock washers to flywheel bolts (rubbing press plate) or missing alignment dowels @ bellhowsing to block, assume hard shift originally due to wrong fluid in trans. get yourself some redline MTL (manual trans lube) works wonders for even masking problem, first make clutch disengage randy
 
rlong:::::::
I've bled the clutch system easily over 20 mines, I forgot to mention that the pilot bearing is NEW (1K miles on it) When I shift gears, I have to wait for the for the revs to drop a bit for the gear to slide in. (feels like if i was shifting without pressing the clutch pedal) needless to say if i were to go racing, i'd lose lots of time shifting from gear to gear. :eek:

randy hayes::::::
I don't remember seeing any washer lockes on the flywheel.. ?? hhhmm (food for thought.. ).... What do you mean by "missing alignment dowels @ bellhowsing to block" :confused: :confused: Do you have a pic ???
I can't remember what fluid i used, but If i remember correctly it was Mobil 1 w/ friction modifier from the dealer... :( :(

Thinking of borrowing a M5R2 to see if its a clutch problem or a tranny problem. Hopefully that helps.... Now I need to find a tranny close by.. hehehehe :D
 
Sounds like something is wrong with the clutch or you have taken to much off the flywheel and now you need it shimed out. I have had to shim mine .030" so it would not do this.
 
Jason Wild::::::
I have removed the flywheel and have had it measured at various places and they all tell me that the flywheel is good. Also took the clutch w/ pressure plate and the honest transmission places tell me that my clutch has lots of life left (the other shops try to stiff me). But i still put a shim just to see if it would resolve my problem and nothing.

I don't know if this helps, but i figure its worth a shot. When i start the SC, I put it on 3rd gear and then crank it up, once the car has started up and the revs have gone to normal, I shift around, usually from 3rd to 4th, then to 2nd and then to 1st and most of the time the shifts are smoooth. Sometimes if i start the car in neutral, and once the revs have gone to normal, i push the clutch and try to put it in 1st, and it won't give.. Its as if i was trying to put the tranny into 1st without pressing the clutch.......

Heres another one. Lets say i start the car in 3rd, then i shift smoothly into 1st, and let the clutch out until the car starts to crawl a bit, if i push the clutch all the way in, sometimes it wants to keep crawling, and the shifter gets hard, as if the tranny doesn't wanna let me take it out of 1st and leave it in neutral.......
Dunno if that helps, but i hope it does....
Thanks
:(
 
SuperCoupe007 said:
Jason Wild::::::
I have removed the flywheel and have had it measured at various places and they all tell me that the flywheel is good. Also took the clutch w/ pressure plate and the honest transmission places tell me that my clutch has lots of life left (the other shops try to stiff me). But i still put a shim just to see if it would resolve my problem and nothing.

I don't know if this helps, but i figure its worth a shot. When i start the SC, I put it on 3rd gear and then crank it up, once the car has started up and the revs have gone to normal, I shift around, usually from 3rd to 4th, then to 2nd and then to 1st and most of the time the shifts are smoooth. Sometimes if i start the car in neutral, and once the revs have gone to normal, i push the clutch and try to put it in 1st, and it won't give.. Its as if i was trying to put the tranny into 1st without pressing the clutch.......

Heres another one. Lets say i start the car in 3rd, then i shift smoothly into 1st, and let the clutch out until the car starts to crawl a bit, if i push the clutch all the way in, sometimes it wants to keep crawling, and the shifter gets hard, as if the tranny doesn't wanna let me take it out of 1st and leave it in neutral.......
Dunno if that helps, but i hope it does....
Thanks
:(
Jason,
I have the same problem with my 90 Xr7. New clutch and tb. I have to put the car in 3rd gear then to first otherwise it will NOT shift into first willingly. You are not alone, let me know how you solve this. I am deployed right now but love to read all the threads. Rob :confused:
 
SuperCoupe007 said:
I have had a shifting trouble for some time. Replaced Clutch w/ a center force and a brand new OEM slave cylinder, about 20K miles ago.
Clutch wouldn't completely disengage, so I purchased a new OEM clutch master cylinder. Needless to say problem still exists :mad: ... When i am at a red light in first gear w/ the clutch completely pressed in, the car crawls forward a bit. I think i remember reading a post about synchros or something like that... :confused: :confused: :confused: I am tired of having to deal with that problem.. I hate having to shift into first before the car comes to a complete stop and holding the clutch in.. I think i need a rebuild kit, or something like that.. Open to every suggestion and advice,
Thanks....
:eek: :eek:
I have read some of your other responses and assume you are still having problems. I just looked in an owners manual and noted that the manual trans calls for automatic trans fluid, a fact that is often overlooked by supposed mechanics. I have had to remove 80w-90 from many a trans that called for something thinner. If you know the smell of 80w--90 or hypoy geag oil, ck and see if that is in your trans, if it is,not only willit shift poorly, but tranny WILL FRY. There is never a need to shim the clutch press plate. If you think there is, that only means the flywheel offset was cut wrong. I would not count on the average shop to reckognise the wrong fluid or as I suggested a misaligned trans which is caused by either missing location dowels (2 required) or broken case right where the dowel goes, even if the break was welded. I found these problems when supposed pro tranny shops did not. Also as I indicated before the addition of washers under the flywheel bolts willcause this and I have seen that to. most likely is the missing dowel if not wrong fluid. The thing about all these problems is that these problems happen only shortly after service. The ATFluid can be replaced w Redline MTL as the viscosity is same, but co-efficient of friction is better and works so well that it can even mask real problems such as missing dowel. If only the trans bolts are asumed to align trans to eng. you may accidentally get alignment right but more likely will not. If tranns input is not on exact same center as crank, this puts a side load on input shaft (thru pilot brng) and the clutch becomes irrellevant as the input continues to turn. The symptoms all you guys are describing are identical to my experiences w these various service mistakes. I have been a professional mechanic ~30 YRS. I have worked on everything that rolls, from Ferraris to horse trailers. Trust me, your problem is one of these above mentioned. I found and fixed al these problems after many other supposed pros failed. randy I would be curious to know which one you are suffering from. good luck. Let me know.
 
randy hayes::::::::::
I still havent figured out what the problem is. I think the tranny rear seal is leaking, so i am gonna buy a real seal and replace it, then i am gonna add 2 or so ounces or fricition modifier and some Mobil 1 ATF. <If i remember correctly i put Mobil 1 ATF fluid in it. I am tempted to replace the tranny fluid and put some Redline MTL as you stated. People have recommended it...

I don,t know what "location dowels (2 required) are. do you have any pics or anything that might better help me understand, i would appreciate it.
by the way, i see that you are in San Diego, i am in Los Angeles, but i go quite a few times down there. perhaps we can get together, and you could take a ride in my SC ...
Thanks...
 
Tranny Dowels

Tranny%20Dowels.jpg


68COUGAR
 
68COUGAR:::::::::::
:confused: If i am reading and understanding this right. I should have how many dowels on the block and is it 3 on the flywheel ????? I think I have a pic of the rear of the block when I took down the trannny, I'll look for it and post it...
Thanks...
 
SuperCoupe007 said:
68COUGAR:::::::::::
:confused: If i am reading and understanding this right. I should have how many dowels on the block and is it 3 on the flywheel ????? I think I have a pic of the rear of the block when I took down the trannny, I'll look for it and post it...
Thanks...

The two dowels are found in the belhousing of the transmission or the flange of the block depending on where they fit tightest. Only the 94-95's have alignment dowels in the flywheel itself. 89-93's do NOT have PP aligning dowls but rather use shouldered bolts to align the PP. 94-95's do NOT have shouldered bolts and use dowel pins instead.
 
Hey 007, thats sucks that your still having problems with this thing.
I am too, but mine are WAY better now after doing some work.
I finally decided to scrap my DF Centerforce (Less than 10,000 km) and went with a Stock Luk. I replaced the "new" slave cylinder and throw out bearing, it had a lifetime warranty and the autoparts store got me a new one for no charge. I also put in a new pilot bearing, resurfaced the flywheel again and reinstalled the slave shim (Only now i wish i went a little thicker).
When I got the car all back together, the clutch dragging was finally gone. But the cars still not shifting smoothly. I think that driving this car under these conditions for over a year was just too much strain on the new synchros and they couldnt take it. Either that or maybe i just need to try a different fluid or get some more friction modifier.

Anyway, i can get the car into any gear from stop no problem now. The shifting is a little rough, but tolerable, for the first 20 mins im driving, but it usually gets better.
If several people have said that your clutch is fine with lots of life, ill bet it is. and im really starting to believe that my centerforce is also FINE, along with my master and pilot bearing that were in the car and that it was just a bad slave that i got and wasnt disengaging it.
There was another guy on here, iaragon i think, who had the exact same symptoms as you and me and he had the same stuff done to his car as i did and he too had excellent results.
It could be a synchro problem that you have, but how does that explain the creeping forward with the clutch in?? The hard shifting could be caused by bad synchros, but the creeping forward, i dont think so. Something is not allowing the clutch to disengage. You've got clutch/hydraulic problems.

You've been told that the clutch is fine, you have new PB, and new master, if i were you id get a new slave. I certain thats the root of your problems.

Good luck
 
XR7 Dave:::::::::::::
I found the pic that I took when I removed the tranny, and saw the two dowels (but they are on the block). Maybe I am lost and am mistaking the dowels for something else.... Somehow I found the pic earlier in the comp, but can't seem to remember where I found it. I will keep lookin and post it when i find it.


livn:::::::
Well I am glad to hear that your shifting problem has greatly improved as well as iaragon. I think we all know how much of a pain it is everytime you have to drop a tranny. I don't want to believe that my slave cylinder is what is causing my problem since it is from Ford, but then again, nothing man made is perfect.... I just feel like this :( when i think about dropping the tranny agian... BUT the tranny has to go down, so I am gonna replace the slave cylinder and will replace the syncros while the tranny is down....
I need to solve this problem real bad, its starting to drive me up the wall..... By the way, what type of syncros do i need and where can i get them, any and all recommendations are welcomed...
Thanks guys.....
 
Been away from the board for a while.

Yes, I have experienced the EXACT same problems with my SC. In the last 4-6 months I have replaced the master cyclinder, slave cylinder, clutch (luk), clutch hose, throw-out bearing AND had it shimmed (.025 I believe). All done by a reputable tranny shop who was also pretty confused by the problem. I had him check out this forum for other complaints before he replaced my clutch, slave cylinder and added the shim. As I've listed, I've replaced or had the shop replace every single part in this clutch system EXCEPT for the tranny.

Now, here comes the depressing part. About 2 weeks after I got my car back after the clutch replacement and shimmed, the "hard shifting" and fighting to-get-into-gear problem came back!! :mad: :mad: Which left me with my last option... synchros. I've "shelved" that project due to lack of funds. I've read posts regarding changing tranny fluid and tranny alignment. Since I go to a jiffy lube type of place for fluid replacements, I don't know exactly whats in it. I guess thats the cheapest way to go for now to see what happens then go from there. One thing though, the problem for me appears when the car gets hot. When cold, shifting is better but like others, I can't shift too quickly or else is grinds (usually from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to third and of course reverse has grindage). And yes, it starts the creep forward even though my foot is on the clutch, I have to take it in and out of gear a few times to make it stop.

Suggestions for good tranny fluid? and how many bottles will I need?

Thanks.
 
I think we have some confusion to what needs to be shimmed here. Only the slave cylinder should be shimmed by just plain old sheet metal worked for me every time and it put the clutch back to center travel. The best fluid hands down that I have foud is GM syncromesh fluid for the late model f bodies.
I used it in a 93 I had with the stock LUC clutch and wow did it shift nice.
Just remeber when you change you clutch, change every thing else while you have the trans out or you will be back under the car before long. Every time I have a flywheel resurfaced I try to put a shim under the slave cylinder the thickness that was taken off the flywheel and I have never had to go back in.
 
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