94 trans. shuddering again.....

ddw350

Registered User
i noticed my trans is starting to "shudder" again.i drained fluid and tourque converter years ago and added some friction modifier and that fixed it for years.usually does it under a load at around 8-1200 rpms.guess i'll do another fluid change and add more stuff to it.if that dont fix it,to bad..im not putting a new trans in it,it has 127000 miles on it
 
I did a fluid and filter change on my 95 4.6L.
It cured 80% of the shuddering.

Later mentioned this to a friend who runs a transmission shop.
He said to change the fluid again and include emptying the convertor.
This will rid of all the remaining fluid and fix my problem.
 
ddw350 said:
i noticed my trans is starting to "shudder" again.i drained fluid and tourque converter years ago and added some friction modifier and that fixed it for years.usually does it under a load at around 8-1200 rpms.guess i'll do another fluid change and add more stuff to it.if that dont fix it,to bad..im not putting a new trans in it,it has 127000 miles on it


Change your Manual Lever Position Sensor "MLPS"

Brad
 
Drain the whole trans incl' the torque converter and use Mercon V. If that doesn't do it, then with 127,000m you could re-build it with the 1996 4R70W upgrades (incl the MLPS) or it may be cheaper to just put in an Art Carr replacement trans. My 94 started to shudder around 25,000 and at first Ford was going to replace the TC; but by the time I booked it in to the dealership they updated the TSB to just flushing the fluid (which I then had to pay for as a service item). However, I did all the 96 upgrades and have used Mercon V ever since without a problem.
 
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Joisey Jim said:
Drain the whole trans incl' the torque converter and use Mercon V. If that doesn't do it, then with 127,000m you could re-build it with the 1996 4R70W upgrades (incl the MLPS) or it may be cheaper to just put in an Art Carr replacement trans. My 94 started to shudder around 25,000 and at first Ford was going to replace the TC; but by the time I booked it in to the dealership they updated the TSB to just flushing the fluid (which I then had to pay for as a service item). However, I did all the 96 upgrades and have used Mercon V ever since without a problem.

Want to see the quality behind an Art Carr transmission check this thread out.
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=56523
 
Alan you just earned my respect and thats just not something I throw around!
I am shocked and amazed by the torque converter findings. I'm glad I've held off on my purchase of one!
Geuss who's I'm buying now?
I just love the fact that you showed the teardown with pics. You have exposed the evil doings of the so called proffessional tranny builders in a way that should open anyones eyes.
Without you cutting open that torque converter and showing what had been done noone would have been the wiser, and thats the reason those cockroach's get away with it.
I need some contact info from you, we have some things to discuss.
I realy love your style Alan!
 
MIKE 38sc said:
Alan you just earned my respect and thats just not something I throw around!
I am shocked and amazed by the torque converter findings. I'm glad I've held off on my purchase of one!
Geuss who's I'm buying now?
I just love the fact that you showed the teardown with pics. You have exposed the evil doings of the so called proffessional tranny builders in a way that should open anyones eyes.
Without you cutting open that torque converter and showing what had been done noone would have been the wiser, and thats the reason those cockroach's get away with it.
I need some contact info from you, we have some things to discuss.
I realy love your style Alan!
Everybody seems to like that thread. I really went into that job with the intention of fixing his lockup problem. Good thing I had parts handy to make it all work right.
Just PM me when you need something Mike, I will be needing a radiator soon ;)
 
its not the mlps,ive replaced that years ago due to sudden shifting in and out of gears.if the fluid change doesnt fix it,im not gonna put anymore in it.im sure a new trans installed it is more than i want to spend on a 11 year old car with 130k on it.believe me,i take as best care of this car as i can,but eventually im gonna have to draw a line,and decide when to "retire" from the supercoupe neverending maintenence program.problem is,theres nothing in the way of vehicles[in my price range] that really float my boat anymore...
 
The Shudder is a known issue. It starts from the factory EEC programming of the TC slip table. I have posted below the EEC Tuners OEM settings then the performance changes to the TC function. Other transmission changes can be made but are not listed below. Compare the TC Slip tables for 2nd and 3rd. Without tuning...Replacing the TC will resolve the shudder (for the near future).

OEM 94-95 SC (W4D2)


LOW_THROTTLE_LOCKUP 0.120117 # Converter lockup rate when not shifting, and not high TP (RPM/Sec)
HIGH_THROTTLE_LOCKUP 0.5 # Converter lockup rate when not shifting, and at high TP (RPM/Sec)
POST_SHIFT_LOCKUP_RATE 0.120117 # Converter lockup rate right after a shift(RPM/Sec)
TIME_BEFORE_CONVERTER_RELOCK 0 # Time to delay converter re-lock after tipping in from a closed throttle (Sec)
TIME_TO_KEEP_CONVERTER_LOCKED 7.99023 # Time to keep converter locked when going to closed throttle (Sec)
CONVERTER_SLIP_DURING_SHIFTS 24 # Amount of converter slip during shifts (RPM)
LOCKUP_PWM_HOLD_TIME 1 # Hold time for PWM when applying the clutch (Sec)
PRESSURE_ADDER_MANUAL_4_TO_2 20 # Pressure adder for a manual 4-2 downshift(TV)


SECOND_GEAR_UNLOCK_VS_TP # Second gear converter un-lock schedule (TP_REL-Volts, Speed-MPH)
( 4.98047, 48 ) ( 2.92969, 48 ) ( 2.92969, 100 )
( 1.34766, 100 ) ( 1.34766, 26 ) ( 0.605469, 8.5 )
( 0, 8.5 ) ( 0, 8.5 ) ( 0, 8.5 )
( 0, 8.5 )


THIRD_GEAR_UNLOCK_VS_TP # Third gear converter un-lock schedule (TP_REL-Volts, Speed-MPH)
( 4.98047, 30 ) ( 0.976562, 30 ) ( 0.488281, 16 )
( 0, 16 ) ( 0, 16 ) ( 0, 16 )
( 0, 16 ) ( 0, 16 ) ( 0, 16 )
( 0, 16 )


FOURTH_GEAR_UNLOCK_VS_TP # Fourth gear converter un-lock schedule (TP_REL-Volts, Speed-MPH)
( 4.98047, 54 ) ( 0.859375, 54 ) ( 0.273438, 40 )
( 0.273438, 34 ) ( 0, 34 ) ( 0, 34 )
( 0, 34 ) ( 0, 34 ) ( 0, 34 )
( 0, 34 )

FORWARD_TV_PRESSURE_UNDER_10_MPH # Forward TV pressure, as a function of TP, when under 10 mph (TP_REL-Volt, TV Pressure-PSI)
( 4.98047, 192 ) ( 1.46484, 192 ) ( 1.28906, 132 )
( 1.09375, 124 ) ( 0.546875, 64 ) ( 0.0976562, 40 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


SECOND_GEAR_SLIP_TABLE_X_SCALING # 2nd gear slip table x Normalizer. (Vehicle Speed-MPH, Cell Number)
( 32767.5, 6 ) ( 40, 6 ) ( 26, 5 )
( 18, 1 ) ( 15, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


THIRD_GEAR_SLIP_TABLE_X_SCALING # 3rd gear slip table x Normalizer. (Vehicle Speed-MPH, Cell Number)
( 32767.5, 6 ) ( 50, 6 ) ( 25, 1 )
( 19, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 )


SLIP_TABLE_Y_SCALING # Slip table Y Normalizer, all tables. (TP_REL-Volts, Cell Number)
( 1023.98, 6 ) ( 300, 6 ) ( 150, 4 )
( 50, 2 ) ( 20, 1 ) ( 10, 0 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


SECOND_GEAR_CONVERTER_SLIP_TABLE # 2nd gear converter continuous slip table (RPM)
52 52 52 20 20 20 20
52 52 52 20 16 16 16
52 52 52 20 16 16 16
16 16 16 16 16 16 16
16 16 16 16 16 16 16
16 16 16 16 16 16 16
0 0 0 0 0 0 0


THIRD_GEAR_CONVERTER_SLIP_TABLE # 3rd gear converter continuous slip table (RPM)
20 20 20 20 20 20 20
32 32 32 20 20 20 20
32 32 32 20 20 20 20
20 20 20 20 16 16 16
20 20 20 20 16 16 16
12 12 16 16 16 16 16
0 0 0 0 0 0 0


SECOND_GEAR_LOCKUP_VS_TP # Second gear lockup (TP_REL-Volts, Speed-MPH)
( 4.98047, 50 ) ( 2.92969, 50 ) ( 2.92969, 105 )
( 1.34766, 105 ) ( 1.34766, 30 ) ( 0.976562, 30 )
( 0.605469, 10 ) ( 0, 10 ) ( 0, 10 )
( 0, 10 )


THIRD_GEAR_LOCKUP_VS_TP # Third gear lockup (TP_REL-Volts, Speed-MPH)
( 4.98047, 32 ) ( 0.976562, 32 ) ( 0.488281, 17.5 )
( 0, 17.5 ) ( 0, 17.5 ) ( 0, 17.5 )
( 0, 17.5 ) ( 0, 17.5 ) ( 0, 17.5 )
( 0, 17.5 )


FOURTH_GEAR_LOCKUP_VS_TP # Fourth gear lockup (TP_REL-Volts, Speed-MPH)
( 4.98047, 56 ) ( 0.898438, 56 ) ( 0.742188, 54 )
( 0.253906, 40 ) ( 0.253906, 35.5 ) ( 0, 35.5 )
( 0, 35.5 ) ( 0, 35.5 ) ( 0, 35.5 )
( 0, 35.5 )

<b>
Performance Transmission changes (W4D2)


LOW_THROTTLE_LOCKUP 0.25 # Converter lockup rate when not shifting, and not high TP (RPM/Sec)
HIGH_THROTTLE_LOCKUP 1 # Converter lockup rate when not shifting, and at high TP (RPM/Sec)
POST_SHIFT_LOCKUP_RATE 0.25 # Converter lockup rate right after a shift(RPM/Sec)
TIME_BEFORE_CONVERTER_RELOCK 0 # Time to delay converter re-lock after tipping in from a closed throttle (Sec)
TIME_TO_KEEP_CONVERTER_LOCKED 7.99023 # Time to keep converter locked when going to closed throttle (Sec)
CONVERTER_SLIP_DURING_SHIFTS 24 # Amount of converter slip during shifts (RPM)
LOCKUP_PWM_HOLD_TIME 0.5 # Hold time for PWM when applying the clutch (Sec)
PRESSURE_ADDER_MANUAL_4_TO_2 20 # Pressure adder for a manual 4-2 downshift(TV)

SECOND_GEAR_SLIP_TABLE_X_SCALING # 2nd gear slip table x Normalizer. (Vehicle Speed-MPH, Cell Number)
( 32767.5, 6 ) ( 40, 6 ) ( 26, 5 )
( 18, 1 ) ( 15, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


THIRD_GEAR_SLIP_TABLE_X_SCALING # 3rd gear slip table x Normalizer. (Vehicle Speed-MPH, Cell Number)
( 32767.5, 6 ) ( 50, 6 ) ( 25, 1 )
( 19, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )
( 0, 0 )


SLIP_TABLE_Y_SCALING # Slip table Y Normalizer, all tables. (TP_REL-Volts, Cell Number)
( 1023.98, 6 ) ( 300, 6 ) ( 150, 4 )
( 50, 2 ) ( 20, 1 ) ( 10, 0 )
( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )


SECOND_GEAR_CONVERTER_SLIP_TABLE # 2nd gear converter continuous slip table (RPM)
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0


THIRD_GEAR_CONVERTER_SLIP_TABLE # 3rd gear converter continuous slip table (RPM)
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0


MAX_TORQUE_IN_GEAR # Maximum allowed input torque in each gear. (ft-lbs)
1020 1020 1020 1020 1020

SECOND_GEAR_LOCKUP_VS_TP # Second gear lockup (TP_REL-Volts, Speed-MPH)
( 4.98047, 50 ) ( 2.92969, 50 ) ( 2.92969, 105 )
( 1.34766, 105 ) ( 1.34766, 30 ) ( 0.976562, 30 )
( 0.605469, 10 ) ( 0, 10 ) ( 0, 10 )
( 0, 10 )


THIRD_GEAR_LOCKUP_VS_TP # Third gear lockup (TP_REL-Volts, Speed-MPH)
( 4.98047, 32 ) ( 0.976562, 32 ) ( 0.488281, 17.5 )
( 0, 17.5 ) ( 0, 17.5 ) ( 0, 17.5 )
( 0, 17.5 ) ( 0, 17.5 ) ( 0, 17.5 )
( 0, 17.5 )


FOURTH_GEAR_LOCKUP_VS_TP # Fourth gear lockup (TP_REL-Volts, Speed-MPH)
( 4.98047, 56 ) ( 0.898438, 56 ) ( 0.742188, 54 )
( 0.253906, 40 ) ( 0.253906, 35.5 ) ( 0, 35.5 )
( 0, 35.5 ) ( 0, 35.5 ) ( 0, 35.5 )
( 0, 35.5 )

</b>
 
Rich that info is interesting but it also points out a big problem with the Tuner.
Who understands all that jibberish?
Dont get me wrong, I'm not slaming you or anything but instead pointing out why some of us have feared to go to the Tuner so anymore info you can give about that just might generate some more buyers.
Does the Tuner come with a manual that clearly interpets what all that code means and how to apply it when working with the Tuner?
Several times the subject of the Tuner has come up here in the past however it still remains mostly a mystery to most of us. Sure there are a few guy's here that understand it and have offered to help guy's out by writing files for them. But I ask is that anyway to tune your engine(or tranny in this case)? I mean you go to the Dyno pay for a session learn your tune is way off then go to your buddy and get him to write you a new file then try again. That proccess could go on forever.
Idealy it would be nice if the new owner of a Tuner could read the instructions gain an understanding of what it all means, then pay for an hour or 2 of dyno time and tune there car rather than make making many trips back and forth to the dyno and having to hookup with whomever is gonna write the file then trying again. I know this has been a BIG turnoff to all the people I've talked to about the Tuner. I mean if you're gonna have to be a computer code reader inorder to work the Tuner then there are systems out there that do the exact same thing for alittle less than 1/2 of what a Tuner costs.
I mean no offense by anything I've said here and hope none was taken. But this subject is one that I'm gonna have to tackle this spring-summer myself and I've just never really got any straight answers to any of it yet in the 3 years I've researched it.
 
No offense taken.....:)

When you purchase the EEC Tuner from me it comes with a 25 page user guide. I wrote the user guide many years ago and it explains most of the tables, functions and scalars with perferred settings the way they are setup in the EEC Tuner software. I use to have the userguide online but found many people downloading the PDF and never buying the EEC Tuner from me. :( Maybe it's time to once again post the PDF version of the user guide for all to download and read. As for "other" tuners out there for less I have not heard of any. There are other flashable chips out there but they do not offer support for the SC's. The SCP programmer is the next best thing at a cost around $700 but requires you to pull the chip each time you need to reprogram it. I have always offered free support to thoes who have purchased the EEC Tuner. It's a small learning curve but once you read the userguide it makes many of the tables easier to understand.

Here is the MN12 EEC Tuner Userguide. It is a 1.8 meg adobe file. 29 pages total. MN12 EEC Tuner User Guide
 
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