Possable Cometic Head Gaskets!

[MIKE 38sc]

Guy's I just got done talking with Kevyn Kistner of Cometic gaskets about the possability of making HG's for the 3.8L Ford engine. He tells me that they are interested because of the many calls they have recieved regarding the problems with the HG's available to us. However they would like some indications of how many sets could be sold as they would need to recoupe there tooling costs.
Maybe just maybe we can finaly get some much needed help in this area IF there's enough SERIOUS interest in them.
Please serious coments and qeustions only and NO BS!
BS of any kind is only going to reflect poorly on this comunity and we do not need that.
Kevyn has indicated that they are interested in a qaulity product that address's all our needs. I made it clear that we need something that holds up to high boost pressures as well as NO2.
I asked him to give me a couple of days to work on this, so lets get moving!
Fire off qeustions or comments, but please SERIOUS interested party's only!

PS: By the way this is not an exclusive deal to me, meaning I will not be selling them nor will I profit from it in any way. Should they start making these anyone would be able to buy them direct from Cometic or through any of there dealers, so I stand to gain nothing from this other than trying to help the comunity.

[David Neibert]

Mike,

How will Cometic gaskets be differeint from the late model 4.2 F-150 MLS gaskets (made by FelPro) that are already being used ?

David

[BT Motorsports]

Mike, I am going to carefully (I will probaby get my head chewed off for this) say we don't need them. I have yet to hear of anyone blowing a properly installed 4.2mls gasket. What we need are some better heads with a strong deck.

Paul

[MIKE 38sc]

David I've Emailed Kevyn the following list of qeustions that came to my mind once he Emailed me that they were interested. Should anyone think of something that I did not please post it and I'll get them to him.

1. What type of construction would these gaskets possably be?
2. What type of finish would be required on the block and heads surfaces?
3. How do you gaskets standup to electrolisys? (I've noticed this to be a big problem)
4. Would you be considering making entire engine gasket sets or just head gaskets?
5. Ball park cost of the gaskets?

Obviously I do not know the answer to your qeustion at the moment David. But just geussing on my part by looking at there site on there construction the 2 outer layers may have a coating of Viton rubber. Just as soon as I hear back from Kevyn I'll post the answers to the above qeustions.

[MIKE 38sc]

Mike, I am going to carefully (I will probaby get my head chewed off for this) say we don't need them. I have yet to hear of anyone blowing a properly installed 4.2mls gasket. What we need are some better heads with a strong deck.

Paul

I understand what you're saying here Paul, but I do wonder if after more time is put on the Ford MLS HG's will there still be a problem with electrolysis?
My concern on this is that my brother inlaws Ford 4.2 truck suffered such a failure before it hit 48,000 miles. He is very good about keeping up the maintenance on his vehicals and changed his coolant regularly, so that was'nt the problem.
Prehaps Cometics MLS construction with there coating of Viton rubber will be the answer to that problem.
Naturaly theres nothing that can be done about the combustion chambers lifting in very high boost pressures short of pining the chambers themselves or a completely new head casting with thicker decks. But maybe these gaskets could resolve the other issues we have.
I appreciate your comments. :)

EDIT: Another thing that comes to mind is the possability that the Viton coating will not reqiure such a special finish on the block and heads. That service might not be available to everyone at there machine shops.
But of course that is just a geuss on my part until I hear back from Kevyn.

[V8Supercoupe]

Hello Mike,
what would make these head gaskets any different then some of the other offered?

Skip

[David Neibert]

EDIT: Another thing that comes to mind is the possability that the Viton coating will not reqiure such a special finish on the block and heads. That service might not be available to everyone at there machine shops.

Mike,

If they will seal without having to deck the block surface, I think they will be very popular.

David

[RussellR]

What timeframe are we talking about here? If its a month or 2 I would be interested. More than that I would have to pass for now. I'm getting the block back from the machine shop this week and want to get it put back together. If I don't do it now, hopefully it will be a while for the next time. I did have the heads milled and the block decked.

I originally called Cometic because the engine builder at Well Racing highly recommended them.

[Scott Long]

are the ford mls ones reusable?

[BT Motorsports]

are the ford mls ones reusable?
Yes, so long as they are not being removed from an overheated engine or one that was suffering a head gasket related problem.

Paul

[David Neibert]

are the ford mls ones reusable?

Scott,

I've heard they were, but knowing what a pain it is to change head gaskets, I would not take the risk of a leak by re-using the old gaskets just to save $90.

David

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Ummm..

I dont see anything cool about usinag a factory gasket in which I need to pop a rivet out and remachine my heads and block surface..

So what mike is proposing is a great idea...Get ya heads out from under the sand

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Also Ive used those gaskets without failure on boosted applications(low boost) without resurfacing. v8 applications

[MIKE 38sc]

OK as promised here's the Email response I recieved from Kevin on those 5 qeustions I sent earlier.


Mike,



Here are some answers for your questions.



1. If we get enough interest we can manufacture the gaskets with a MLS (multi layer steel) design to insure the best possible design is being used.

2. For MLS gasket deck and head surfaces need to be at least a 50RA finish or finer.

3. I haven’t heard of electrolysis being a problem with our gaskets before so there should not be any problems now.

4. We will probably only offer head gaskets at first but it could easily stem into intake and exhaust gasket or any other gasket that would be in high demand..

5. Ball park price on the gaskets would be roughly $80 per gasket or $160 per set of 2. Of course as custom thicknesses were ordered the prices would change accordingly.



I hope these answers will help you explain to your fellow enthusiasts what a quality product we supply. If you need anything else you know what to do.







Kevyn Kistner

Cometic Gasket

8090 Auburn Road

Concord, OH 44077
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

so in regards to qeustion #1 they would be constructed just as there other head gaskets MLS and include the 2 outer layers coated on both sides with Viton rubber. I do not know if the Ford MLS gaskets have this, you guy's that are using them please comment.

# 2 answers the surface finnish that would be needed. I'm not sure what is needed for the Ford MLS gaskets. But you guy's that are using them can remark on any difference(if at all) between the 2.

#3 Really interests me because every single set of heads I've pulled on these engines has had the telltale white powder of electrolysis leading from the water jacket to the fire ring on at least 1 cylinder. That has lead to the failure of at least 99% of the HG's I've seen.

#5 answers the price qeustion. I dont know what Ford gets for there MLS gaskets so again you guy's with experiance in that area feel free to chime in.
#5 also eludes to these gaskets being available in different thickness's and that would be a nice option to have when building certain special engines that are being built and planned today.

Thanks to Ron,George,Duffy or whomever it was that moved this thread to this forum. I appreciate it.
Please continue to voice your qeustions or comments and after a couple of days I'll gather them up and forward them to Kevyn to get the answers.
Kevyn seems to be pretty interested in helping out as he has been replying to my Emails very quickly, much quicker than any other co. I've talked to.
Thanks guy's.

[V8Supercoupe]

Weird, real wierd.
When I saw this post it didn't appear that anyone posted to it yet. I must have been asleep when I posted.
Sorry 'bout the xtra post.


Skip

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Nwo how does that head finish compare to MLS factory reccomended finish>?

[BT Motorsports]

Nwo how does that head finish compare to MLS factory reccomended finish>?
The MLS gaskets call for a RA of 10 but will work with up to a 25.


Paul

[David Neibert]

Mike,

The cost of the Ford/Felpro MLS gaskets range from $43 to $55 each depending on where you buy them. The last set I purchased was cheaper from Ford @ $43 each. Autozone wanted around $55 each to order the Felpro numbers.

David

[MikeKanterakis]

I can't say that I know from personal experience, but the place where I got my ballance says that you do need a special cut on both the heads and the engine deck / DCM / Single-bit Carbide.

So, this isn't going to be a big sale to begin with. Well at least not nearly as big as our stated membership. You're going to be dealing with guys how are planning for the next rebuild now! You sick puppies know who I'm talking about....

Mike 38sc, I wonder if they (Cometic) really know the answer to the "watter jacket creep" you're referring to in question #3 "electrolisys". I mean, that's a pretty specific complaint you're dealing with. If the answer is truly no, well, sign me up!

Regarding price. Are they really THAT good? I mean, you have to buy them individually? Regardless; If we can have delivery in a few weeks, I'll buy 2 individual gaskets for $160.

[MIKE 38sc]

I can't say that I know from personal experience, but the place where I got my ballance says that you do need a special cut on both the heads and the engine deck / DCM / Single-bit Carbide.

So, this isn't going to be a big sale to begin with. Well at least not nearly as big as our stated membership. You're going to be dealing with guys how are planning for the next rebuild now! You sick puppies know who I'm talking about....

Mike 38sc, I wonder if they (Cometic) really know the answer to the "watter jacket creep" you're referring to in question #3 "electrolisys". I mean, that's a pretty specific complaint you're dealing with. If the answer is truly no, well, sign me up!

Regarding price. Are they really THAT good? I mean, you have to buy them individually? Regardless; If we can have delivery in a few weeks, I'll buy 2 individual gaskets for $160.

Well from the guy's that have experiance with the finish concerning the Ford MLS gaskets it seems that the Cometic's are not as picky on the finish, unless I have the #'s backwards.
I pretty much knew the answer to #3 myself, having alot of experiance in that field. The Cometics are coated in Viton rubber so electrolisys is impossable. I merely asked them the qeustion because I wanted to post there response to it.
I would have to say that there's probably no way they would be ready for market in 2 weeks or less.
This was never meant to be an imeadiate answer to anyones build that will be done in that timeframe. Instead it was meant as a possable solution to a known problem that we all eventually share. We will all replace HG's again in the future, thats for sure. My thoughts on this were that prehaps the Cometics would possably be a much longer term solution for the 90% or so of SC engines that are used mostly in a stock manner, now of course guy's pushing the limits with high boost and NO2 are eventualy gonna blow any HG in time.
I think this thread has run its course. There are 238 views of this thread and only 18 comments, so it seems pretty clear to me(as it would Cometic) that this community is not interested in Cometic designing any gaskets for this engine.
I will notify Cometic of the results and thank them for there time and interest in working with us on this project. But I think its a dead horse so I'll let it lay.
Thanks guy's for the input.

[XR7 Dave]

Well from the guy's that have experiance with the finish concerning the Ford MLS gaskets it seems that the Cometic's are not as picky on the finish, unless I have the #'s backwards.
I pretty much knew the answer to #3 myself, having alot of experiance in that field. The Cometics are coated in Viton rubber so electrolisys is impossable. I merely asked them the qeustion because I wanted to post there response to it.
I would have to say that there's probably no way they would be ready for market in 2 weeks or less.
This was never meant to be an imeadiate answer to anyones build that will be done in that timeframe. Instead it was meant as a possable solution to a known problem that we all eventually share. We will all replace HG's again in the future, thats for sure. My thoughts on this were that prehaps the Cometics would possably be a much longer term solution for the 90% or so of SC engines that are used mostly in a stock manner, now of course guy's pushing the limits with high boost and NO2 are eventualy gonna blow any HG in time.
I think this thread has run its course. There are 238 views of this thread and only 18 comments, so it seems pretty clear to me(as it would Cometic) that this community is not interested in Cometic designing any gaskets for this engine.
I will notify Cometic of the results and thank them for there time and interest in working with us on this project. But I think its a dead horse so I'll let it lay.
Thanks guy's for the input.

I think that is a hasty assessment of interest that doesn't do the issue justice. It almost seems like you are the one not interested in working with us on this project. You asked for serious comments and questions ONLY. Well, you got the serious questions and comments from the people in this community who know. What else do you want? The rest of use kept our mouths shut. I didn't have anything to add so what was I supposed to do, jump up and down and yell "me too, me too"? I'm not building an engine right now, and even if I was as you said I'd be SOL for now anyhow.

Have you discussed this with the Mustang crowd? Since they represent the bigger market anyway, their interest is much more important than ours. If Tom Morana can profitably MAKE MLS gaskets himself and sell them to SC'ers and Mustang guys alike, then certainly there is a market for the Cometic product.

[MIKE 38sc]

Dave I think you've misunderstood. Cometic wanted #'s of people that would seriously consider buying there product as they need to sell xx#'s of said product to recoupe the tooling costs. I did ask for only serious comments such as qeustions or "Yes I would buy those gaskets" or "No I would not buy those gaskets" I mean if you think my calling this off is premature then I'll hold off on contacting them, but people need to start speaking up.
Kevyn has told me that they have had alot of reqeusts for 3.8L HG's and that they were well aware of the 3.8L problems, so aparantly the other community's have spoken up. I told him about the SCCOA and that I would post on the board to see how many would seriously consider buying there product. Naturaly I knew there would be qeustions and comments made as well as remarks as to rather someone would or would not buy the HG's. I welcomed all comments,qeustions or remarks as long as they were serious in nature.
While Kevyn did not come right out and say what #'s they already had from the other interested parties I did get the feeling that they may not be far from what they need to make this happen. He was returning my Emails in less than 5 minutes and I've never ran into that with any co. before.
I opologise if I confused things with wording or what not and will hold off on contacting them inorder for people to cast there votes so to speak.

Just incase I've confused things what we need are the #'s of people that would seriously consider buying there product.
Comments pro or con are still welcomed but what is needed to possably get the ball rolling is the #'s of serious potential buyers.
Again I'm sorry if I confused things.

[XR7 Dave]

Ok, I didn't understand this as a survey to find out how many would buy. Perhaps you should do a poll? I would definitely buy them when I do my next motor. I think the fact that they are more tolerant to deck finish makes them highly attractive as well. They should be able to be used on a stock deck which means that the motor does not have to be pulled and dissassembled to use them. I get many queries about "what can I do to make sure these gaskets won't blow again?" Almost anyone who does the job themselves will go for it if they are aware that they are available. No one wants to do it over again. I am quite certain that at least 80% of all headgasket jobs I do would get the better gaskets just by my mentioning that they are available.

For most people headgaskets, while almost a certainty with these motors, are the last thing people think about spending money on until the necessity arrives. Then they want the best, and there have been enough leaking problems with the Ford MLS gaskets that I do not believe they represent the epitome of 3.8 headgasket nirvana.

[David Neibert]

Ok, I didn't understand this as a survey to find out how many would buy. Perhaps you should do a poll? I would definitely buy them when I do my next motor. I think the fact that they are more tolerant to deck finish makes them highly attractive as well. They should be able to be used on a stock deck which means that the motor does not have to be pulled and dissassembled to use them. I get many queries about "what can I do to make sure these gaskets won't blow again?" Almost anyone who does the job themselves will go for it if they are aware that they are available. No one wants to do it over again. I am quite certain that at least 80% of all headgasket jobs I do would get the better gaskets just by my mentioning that they are available.

For most people headgaskets, while almost a certainty with these motors, are the last thing people think about spending money on until the necessity arrives. Then they want the best, and there have been enough leaking problems with the Ford MLS gaskets that I do not believe they represent the epitome of 3.8 headgasket nirvana.

I agree....if Cometic can make an MLS gasket that will seal on a crappy stock deck surface, then it's well worth the extra money and alot more people would buy them instead of the Fel Pro composite or Ford MLS gaskets.

David

[MagpoweredSC]

I'd buy a set especially if they worked on stock deck.

[sizemoremk]

I too, would be interested, if they woudl work on a stock deck...

[MIKE 38sc]

Ok, I didn't understand this as a survey to find out how many would buy. Perhaps you should do a poll? I would definitely buy them when I do my next motor. I think the fact that they are more tolerant to deck finish makes them highly attractive as well. They should be able to be used on a stock deck which means that the motor does not have to be pulled and dissassembled to use them. I get many queries about "what can I do to make sure these gaskets won't blow again?" Almost anyone who does the job themselves will go for it if they are aware that they are available. No one wants to do it over again. I am quite certain that at least 80% of all headgasket jobs I do would get the better gaskets just by my mentioning that they are available.

For most people headgaskets, while almost a certainty with these motors, are the last thing people think about spending money on until the necessity arrives. Then they want the best, and there have been enough leaking problems with the Ford MLS gaskets that I do not believe they represent the epitome of 3.8 headgasket nirvana.

The poll is a good idea Dave and when I originaly made this post I clicked the option to have a poll, however a poll did not come up. I'll put one up in the polls section tonight to go along with this thread.
Like you I'm likeing the fact that the Cometics arent so finiky about the deck finish. That alone could save you as much if not more money than the price difference between the Cometics and the other gaskets by reducing machining costs, unless of course you already had a problem there to begin with. May I ask about how many HG jobs you do? Just so I'll have a # to pass on.

[Conan56]

If they work On a stock Deck Id prob buy a set depending on Price

[specops_SC]

i know i'd buy a set. even if they are more expensive than other headgaskets, it still beats the trouble/expense of having to pull the block and take it to a machine shop in order to do a proper job on them. my 90 auto is about due a hg job. if this is happening, i'll wait around before gettin started on that.

Moses

[Mike8675309]

If the would be available prior to April I would use them this spring in my 93. If after that they would be going in a 35th at some point in the future.

I'm making a concerted effort to support those that support my car with my money and my time wherever possible.

[Jake]

I'll buy a set, I'll need them for my head and cam swap in april.

[MIKE 38sc]

Could someone help me with a problem setting up the poll in the poll's forum?
I checked the little box to setup a poll and chose 2 options for the poll. I never did get an oportunity to make those 2 options "yes" or "no" and the post just posted without any poll. What did I do wrong? :o :o

[gldiii]

Mike, I fixed your poll. I don't know what went wrong when you tried to post it.

Have you seen this group buy that came up after you got this started?

http://sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?p=371097

[dirtybird x]

Guy's I just got done talking with Kevyn Kistner of Cometic gaskets about the possability of making HG's for the 3.8L Ford engine. He tells me that they are interested because of the many calls they have recieved regarding the problems with the HG's available to us. However they would like some indications of how many sets could be sold as they would need to recoupe there tooling costs.
Maybe just maybe we can finaly get some much needed help in this area IF there's enough SERIOUS interest in them.
Please serious coments and qeustions only and NO BS!
BS of any kind is only going to reflect poorly on this comunity and we do not need that.
Kevyn has indicated that they are interested in a qaulity product that address's all our needs. I made it clear that we need something that holds up to high boost pressures as well as NO2.
I asked him to give me a couple of days to work on this, so lets get moving!
Fire off qeustions or comments, but please SERIOUS interested party's only!

PS: By the way this is not an exclusive deal to me, meaning I will not be selling them nor will I profit from it in any way. Should they start making these anyone would be able to buy them direct from Cometic or through any of there dealers, so I stand to gain nothing from this other than trying to help the comunity.


oh,ok,i didnt even think to check,my bad,im not tryin to steal ur idea,hopefully we can get this going

[XR7 Dave]

oh,ok,i didnt even think to check,my bad,im not tryin to steal ur idea,hopefully we can get this going

Lets all work together to make this happen.

[MikeKanterakis]

I'm still interested. Even if it doesn't get used in my current project, I would be willing to "give away" $150 in order to make sure that these gaskets will be available for my next rebuild (oh my poor aching hands). From the other post, 50 people doesn't sound so bad. (oh, is that 50 people buying one head gasket, or 50 people buying 2?)

Regarding the block surface. I'd like to have some closure on this. Do we NEED to resurface the block or not? If not, does haveing a resurfased block (for MLS style gaskets) pose a problem for these Cometic gaskets?

Also, about them comming in different thicknesses? Can someone shed some light on why? thanks. :)

[MIKE 38sc]

Mike, I fixed your poll. I don't know what went wrong when you tried to post it.

Have you seen this group buy that came up after you got this started?

http://sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?p=371097

Thanks George! I'm sure it had something to do on my end, man if I could just work a computer with a ratchet and a TIG rig I would do much better.
Anywhoo......no I had'nt seen that thread, but as I mentioned earlier Kevyn did tell me that I was'nt the only one that had been inquiring.


Dirtybird x my friend you're not stealing my idea at all, like Dave said lets all work together and make this happen. Any help you and your brother can lend would be much appreciated by myself and I'm sure everyone else here, theres room for everybody.
Personaly I'm delighted that you guy's were told 50 sets would make it happen. Kevyn just asked me how many sets did I think they could sell if they made them. I told him that I would bring this up on the board and we would see where it went so I could have #'s to give him. I just wonder if Cometic meant they needed to sell all 50 (sets?) at once or over a period of time? Since you guy's were told a # why dont you contact them about the timeframe issue and see what they say?
50 sets over a period of time (whatever that may end up being) just might be possable. Especialy since the gaskets would work on all 3.8's, I bet almost that # of HG's at this site alone was changed last year.

[MIKE 38sc]

I'm still interested. Even if it doesn't get used in my current project, I would be willing to "give away" $150 in order to make sure that these gaskets will be available for my next rebuild (oh my poor aching hands). From the other post, 50 people doesn't sound so bad. (oh, is that 50 people buying one head gasket, or 50 people buying 2?)

Regarding the block surface. I'd like to have some closure on this. Do we NEED to resurface the block or not? If not, does haveing a resurfased block (for MLS style gaskets) pose a problem for these Cometic gaskets?

Also, about them comming in different thicknesses? Can someone shed some light on why? thanks. :)

50 sets does'nt sound bad at all, I had feared it would be a much higher # myself.
Mike from what I've learned about the factory deck finnish the Cometics should work just fine, so thats money saved right there, unless you have other problems with your decks.
Why different thickness's? Well say you had to shave .010" off your heads to straighten them up. By useing stock gaskets you will now increase your pushrod preload by that amount and you will actually raise your static compression as well. You may or may not want to do either and by adding .010" thickness to your new gaskets you can set all those parimeters back to what they were before you shaved your heads.
Actualy its just another tuning tool at your disposal to help you in several different ways to cope with many situations you can run into once you get into building a fire breather. Such things you can play with are Lifter preload, squishband clearance and combustion chamber volume to name a few.

[MikeKanterakis]

I know, I've tried to exercise EXTREEME control regarding these engine rebuild projects. Luckily, money is an obstacle for me, so I'm necessarily prevented from buying crazy things like a 100ml burrett (cheap on money, but expensive on time) and a manometer (expensive on both money and time).

But hey, we're all just different shades of supercoupe.

Anyone know if a MLS finished block will work with Vitton rubber Cometic gaskets?

[MIKE 38sc]

What!...You have no burretts or Manometers? LOL!!! Seriously though working as a Pipefitter in construction has gained me axcess to alot of those toys for free, no I did'nt steal them but it is amazing what engineers will sometimes give you when you're working on there projects. Sometimes its slighly used stuff and sometimes its brand new and still in the box.
You'de be suprised what they'll give you when you build them a stainless steel BBQ grill with matching stainless fish fryer. hehehe :D

Now as for that finnish on the decks. Yes the Cometics would work with a deck finish done for Fords MLS gaskets. The Ford gaskets require a fine finish of RA10, I believe thats what Paul said. The Cometics will work with a finish of RA50 or finer, 10 is much finer than 50 so yes they would work.
The Cometics are MLS gaskets as well, but 1 of there design differences is that the 2 outer layers are coated with Viton Rubber which sandwich a stainless steel core layer. I've used there gaskets on car and bike engines for alittle over a year now and I've been real impressed by them.

[MikeKanterakis]

ok, here's me beating the dead horse, but if a 10 finish is required for a MLS gasket, and a 50 finish (or better) is required for a Cometic gasket, ... i'm sorry, what's the number of the Ford factory finish?

not related to this post, but, mike38sc, do you have a pic of that BBQ & fish fryer. It sounds great. I've got me a New Braunsfeld (sp?) from Home Depot. Me loves the steaks. :o

[Mike8675309]

The main issue related to deck surfaces is that the viton rubber coating allows for a quality seal without a surfacing that is less than typical.

Many, if not most machine shops can not achieve the exceedingly smooth surface that the MLS gaskets require for a quality seal. I've talked with one that will be working on my block and they claim they can and have achieved what the MLS gaskets need.

Assuming this gasket can work with a factory surfacing, doesn't mean you're going to just want to assume you can use a factory surfacing. It just means you may have the option. Checking the sealing surfaces for possible uneven surface is still something that's recommended. And then if necessary resurfacing to bring the surface true.

If we can get them, these would be very good gaskets, as Mike has stated, concerns with failures due to corrosion are valid concerns. Especially for those of us that want to keep their cars for a long time.

[SuperCoupe007]

Very interesting and informative post. Needless to say, I am way in !!!!!.... I would buy a set to support the club to increase our market of upgrades, which we all can benefit from.....
:)

[jordansypek]

In the process of doing a rebuild here soon also, any word on these Gaskets being a real go? Money in hand, ready to buy now.

[sail7seas]

Mike,
I going to swap mine out eventually, so add me to the list.
Chris

[MarksM]

I'd really like to freshen up the HG's before dropping that AR on there.

[nastybird93sc]

hey guys these head gaskets are awsome i seen a 7 second bike run these gaskets on no2 and they hold they are also on 2500 yes that is 2500 hp mustangs and they hold they are reusable up to 5 times i think it is and are worth the money i already have a set and they look good they have four layers of metal coverd with rubber and are held together by a small rivet so two layers flow with the movement of the block and the other two flow with the movement of the heads i have not got to try these personally yet but i know they will work great i would also be down for buying another set or two so if you guys can get them to make them as an on going product for about $150 a set i would be down cause i paid a bit more than that for the ones that i have thanks and lmk when they are up for production :)

[Mustangshane]

I would be intrested also. I'm buying a car in a couple weeks that, the last time the headgaskets were changed is unknown. So when they do go I'd buy a set that is this good for about $150. Any less money wise just sweetens the deal. :D

[1EVILSC]

Im in the same boat as shane got an SC dunno when or if the HG's were changed need to do them as preventative measure, these HG's sound awesome.

[91supacoop]

For those of you that are voicing your opinion here in this thread and and confident in your response please be sure to also post your reply in the poll that is located in the "polls forum" section.

Scott

[91supacoop]

I know this may be a thread for technical forums, but i hope to have it answered here. i understand that a surface finish of 10 is more precise, and finer than 50.
but what exactly does this mean? RA...what do thise letters stand for?

I'm no materials enginner, but considering the elasticity and compression properties of rubber (assuming this vitton rubber used by cometic is like most rubbers), wouldn't it be beneficial to have a surface with inconsistances in it.

This may be hard to put into words for someone so inexperienced as me so please bear with me.

Considering my current idea of what RA stand for (please someone explain exactly what this means), I would think that when you place a very smooth surface (10RA) in contact with compressed rubber, the seal would not hold up as well as if the surface had some level of inconsistency (50RA) to it for the rubber to "grip" to it(think about sandpaper across highly polished steel VS. Sandpaper across Hot Rolled Steel). If anyone has any clue what I am talking about please corect me if I am wrong, or congratuate me if i am correct. If you feel the reply is to long to post here, you can always e-mail me at

mo00se@hotmail.com

Thanks for your time,
Scott

[hytorksc]

I'll go for these gaskets too, need the added confidence in my motor as i plan to keep it for a very long time- and before i start my AR project.

[Mike8675309]

RA = roughness average
The number is specified in "microinches".

An interesting article: http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar996.htm

Note that what's being discussed here is a MLS gasket with a Viton rubber coating. Unlike a typical gasket, MLS gaskets do not need the "grip" of the head and deck surfaces to keep them from deforming when under pressure. But, because they are stiff, they can be damaged by these surfaces "gripping" them when the surfaces are expanding/contracting as they heat up. This creates shearing forces with an iron deck and a aluminum head that will break down the gasket over time if not for the ability of the gasket to slip.

In theory, what the Viton rubber will allow is for is some flexibility in the contact surfaces to deal with the shearing forces, as well as protect the metal gasket from deterioration due to exposure to coolant. Thus allowing a less "smooth" mating surface than would be required with a standard MLS gasket.

One question that just popped into my mind was the thickness of these gaskets. Is there a significant increase in thickness compared to a stock replacement head gasket?

[Porabowl]

I'm definitely interested if it means i don't have to take the engine fully out of the car to finish the heads. It's definitely worth the extra $80 or so....
I'd also be interested in Intake and Exhaust gaskets if there's enough interest and they decide to make them.

[91supacoop]

Mike8675309,
Thank you, I don't see why i didn't think of that.
Scott

[Flip]

I’ve been waiting for the “pro’s” to weigh in on this. If these can be done with the stock block and decked heads then I’m all for them. I would buy 2 sets if they have some sort of shelf life. I have 2 SC’s one needs to be done now and one as a spare set.

[David Neibert]

I think the new gaskets would be great, IF they will seal on a stock deck. If the engine still has to be pulled,dismantled and the deck resurfaced to get a 50 RA, then IMO the Cometics don't really have an advantage over the existing MLS gaskets.

I have not seen any evidence of electrolysis or corrosion of any kind on the 4.2 MLS stainless steel gaskets, so that's not an issue to me. The real issue is will these new gaskets seal on a stock deck. If they will, I'll buy them. If they won't then I'll stick with the 4.2 MLS gaskets that I have been using for the last 3 years.

Since Cometic has already stated what the surface finish needs to be, we need only determine what the stock surface is to tell if they are going to work.

David

[BT Motorsports]

Since Cometic has already stated what the surface finish needs to be, we need only determine what the stock surface is to tell if they are going to work.
David
I will have an answer to that early next week. I have an unmolested block which will be tearing down over the weekend. The measurement device being used is calibrated monthly so rest assured it will be extremely accurate.

Paul

[MIKE 38sc]

Well Kevyn Emailed me this morning to check on the status of interest for the HG's. I was informed that one of our SC parts vendors has contacted them(Cometic) and was filling out a spec sheet for the needed gaskets so that Kevyn can take that to his boss's to get approval to go ahead. I was also told that the fella that earlier made the claim that he was in touch with Cometic and was told 50 sets needed to be sold is not true. Apparantly there is no set # needed to sell and instead Cometic was mainly interested in the level of interest in order to make there own decission on rather to make them or not. The way I take it there is no reqiurement for anyone to commit to buying a set, but instead Cometic was interested in the level of interest only.
Now it appears someone has decided to just take matters into there own hands and have them made. I do not know if the vendors deal with Cometic will be exclusive to just them(meaning the vendor is the only one that can order and buy and then you must buy from the vendor only) or not. The deal I was trying to work up meant the gaskets would be in there regular lineup and available through any of Cometic's dealers or Cometic themselves. I would not have made one cent from the sale of these gaskets. :)

[Mike8675309]

Thanks for all of your Efforts Mike.

[J.D.]

If you cannot beat them, join them. The next time you have an idea for a product, obtain exclusive vendor rights. I'm sure you'll even be able to provide the manufacturer with letters of recommendation from your potential SCCoA customers stating that they would prefer to deal with you. Look at it this way, a manufacturer will usually choose to deal with a vendor that has a financial incentive to sell the product over one that is doing it just to help others or to feel good. The manufacturer thinks in this way as he probably is in it primarily for the money.

[MIKE 38sc]

I have no problem with the vendor taking control of things, nor could I ever claim that I had an idea for this product. Cometic has been making there gaskets for years now. I would have to have my own gasket co. and create that totaly new gasket concept in order to make that claim. I think you're missing the ball here J.D., I'm only reporting the latest developments in this since I am the one that started the thread. I want these gaskets to become a reality and do not care who profits or gets the credit for it. Like I said 2 times prior in this thread, I would not be selling or profit from these gaskets. I really dont get your post other than you seem to have me all wrong.
But I do thank you for the buisness lesson, maybe I'll use it one day. :)

[MIKE 38sc]

Thanks for all of your Efforts Mike.

Mike, You the SCCOA and the vendor are welcome. Should I have been any help at all I'm thankfull. :)

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Any one person being a sole distributor for head gaskets would do a majority of the people no good...I agree 100%

[BT Motorsports]

Well, I just came across some new info that will probably throw water on the fire for most. The RA #s I had quoted are for Ford gaskets (that information came directly from Ford btw). Tonight, while assisting in the assembling of John Shelton's engine, I was shown the package the Fel Pro MLS gaskets come in which clearly states an RA finish of 60 or better is the requirement for their use. Below are some links to the MLS gasket with info as well as the RA 60 callout.

Info: http://www.federal-mogul.com/cda/channel/index/0,2186,2442_2891064,00.html

R60 callout located on page 5: http://www.federal-mogul.com/vgn/images/portal/cit_776/12950726MLS%20Brochure.pdf

To quote the email Mike posted: 2. For MLS gasket deck and head surfaces need to be at least a 50RA finish or finer.
So, that tells me the Fel Pro gaskets require an = or even lessor finish quality than the cometic gakets do. Considering the cost difference between them and the cometic gaskets, IMO, they are still the way to go.

Regardless, I will be pulling the heads off that block I mentioned on Sunday morning and will post the factory deck RA of both the block and heads.

Paul

[MIKE 38sc]

You make a good point Paul, since the Fel pro's are also rubber coated and apparantly will handle a slighlty rougher surface they most certainly would be a viable alternative. However Cometic still has an edge for high performance engine builder. The Cometic gaskets will be available in 8 different thickness's allowing the builder to compensate for the material removed from the heads and or block from decking. That will allow you to maintain your stock compression ratio or it can be used for fine tuning of the compression on those beast motors. Another advantage for the high perf engine builder would be the assorted bore diameters that can be done on the fly as it was put to me by Kevyn. Can anybody say sleeved big bore stroker SC motors?
Dont get me wrong I'm sure the Fel pro's are just fine for the stock or modified SC engines using stock bores and the stock oversizes. But guy's building or thinking about building that monster motor just might want to have the Cometic option.
Makes no difference to me one way or the other. But it just does'nt make sense to discourage any mfg'er that has expressed an interest in our cars and its needs from making parts for it. no sir that does'nt make sense at all.

[BT Motorsports]

Makes no difference to me one way or the other. But it just does'nt make sense to discourage any mfg'er that has expressed an interest in our cars and its needs from making parts for it. no sir that does'nt make sense at all.
Make no mistake Mike and all other parties interested, I am not trying to discourage Cometic from producing gaskets. Chances are, I will be using them on my next build for some of the reasons you mentioned Mike (thickness and bore size options). I simply do not want to see another billet flow situation where a bunch of people show interest then learn there is another option and bail on the company. That is what hurts our progress in getting new vendors to bring parts to market for us.

As usual, I applaud your efforts Mike!

Paul

[MIKE 38sc]

Make no mistake Mike and all other parties interested, I am not trying to discourage Cometic from producing gaskets. Chances are, I will be using them on my next build for some of the reasons you mentioned Mike (thickness and bore size options). I simply do not want to see another billet flow situation where a bunch of people show interest then learn there is another option and bail on the company. That is what hurts our progress in getting new vendors to bring parts to market for us.

As usual, I applaud your efforts Mike!

Paul

I appreciate that Paul and can understand what you mean about that deal.
Afterall I did make the radiators available to this community and ended up having about 60 people bail on me as well, so I am sensative to that sentiment. Mfg'ers take stuff like that as a slap in the face and will not waste there time on it. I on the other hand am a club member with a stake in this community, not to mention my love for this car. Thats why I have stuck it out with the rads. The testamonials from my elated customers have made me realize I am helping some people at least and thats why I keep keeping on. :)

[David Neibert]

Mike,

I also hope we end up with another choice of MLS gaskets. After re-reading my post it may seem to some like I'm against the Cometics....I can assure you that's not the case. I paid extra to have the new block in my turbo car resurfaced just so I could use the Cometics.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this.

David

[MIKE 38sc]

David I did'nt take it that you were against getting these gaskets made. I did think that Paul thought it was pointless, but he cleared that up.
The subject to me is all about options. I really think we need all the options we can get since Ford has obsoleted practicaly every part for these cars now. True we can still get HG's from Ford but who knows what tomarrow brings, remember the DISS modules? Now many if not all ECU's for SC's are history as well.
I just see it as we have absolutely nothing to lose if Cometic makes these gaskets. From my last talk with Kevyn I've learned that they do not want us to bow down to them or promise to buy a truckload of there product. They just want to know honestly if there product is one we would give serious consideration to if they were available to us. Cometic in the end will ultimately make there own decission based on input from us and other users of the 3.8 engine.
That to me is a little different approach than other mfg'ers have taken with us. Others have wanted to know for sure they were going to sell X #'s of product usually in the form of a group buy before they would commit. That does'nt appear to be the case here.

I'de like to take a moment and ask that you guy's that visit Mustang Boards or other Tbird sites please try to talk about these gaskets for the 3.8 motor and see if you can generate some interest. The more interest there is the bigger the possability is that Cometic will make these. How often nowadays can you get a new product into production without having to shell out cubic dollars? All this will take is you out there talking about cars and these gaskets in an effort to generate interest. Think about that.
Thanks to everyone for there support so far.
But we need all you guy's that visit other sites where the 3.8 has a home to talk about this and help raise interest.
I do need help with this because I just cannot devoute all of my time trying to pull it together. Many of you already have established reputations at other boards so people listen to you and trust you. We need you to help. I need you to help. Get on the TBU,TCCOA and all of the Mustang boards you visit and stir things up. :) :)

[tbirdaj]

Is there any info on who the vendor that is getting the cometics is?

[MIKE 38sc]

Yes...I know who they are but I had hoped they would join in on the discussion here and let us know what efforts there making to help with this. Possably they are at other boards raising awareness, I dont know. David Dalke made an earlier plea that we all work together to help make this happen. I agreed with David then and just recently asked for anyones help again. I think more would be accomplished if we pooled our efforts, maybe I'm alone in that feeling.

[BT Motorsports]

Is there any info on who the vendor that is getting the cometics is?
I haven't inquired as to who that vendor is, however, rumor mill has it that the line would not be limited to just one vendor. It sounds like one vendor has stepped up with interest in getting things moving and possibly a commitment for the initial product release.

Paul

[Mike8675309]

The answer to who is working on it is in this thread:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57751&highlight=Cometic

[Ryan A Harris]

I'd buy a set for a 90 & 95.......

[Gasket Man]

I have been overviewing the topics of discussion for a while and Mike has asked me to come on this board to help back him up as a representative and customer of Cometic Gaskets. I do work for the company and will try to answer the questions that I am sure many of you have and try not to step on anyones toes or make my company or personal name look bad in any way. Please be patient with me because I will not have tons of time to devote to just this project but I will promise to try my best.

First let me say that although I am an employee of Cometic Gasket Inc. I am also a customer with my 73 Chevy Nova drag car and can testify to these gaskets being the best gasket on the market. Anyways I would really like to see you guys come together to get these gaskets produced and I am eager to help out anyway I can.

[MIKE 38sc]

Hello Kevyn welcome to the board and thank you very much for dropping by!
Since you've been watching the responses I think you can see we're pretty much like any other family out there. We agree and disagree at times but all in all we get along pretty good here. I'm more like the crazy uncle that they try to keep locked up in the basement. LOL!!! :p Every family has one, its just the checks and balances of things. ;)
I dont think you'll have any problems here because this forum is set up just for this kind of thing.
"WE" The Super Coupe community have a very tough time getting the ear of a major parts mfg'er such as Cometic because of our very small #'s. There was'nt alot of SC's made to begin with and of course time has taken its toll on our #'s The one strong thing we have going for us in this endevour is the 3.8L engine. Luckily for us there were thousands upon thousands of those engines put in various Ford vehicals. We need to and should use this to our advantage, its not often that we have anything to use as leverage with a major mfg'er. We need to stir things up at all of the other boards that you guy's visit, I've hit the TCCOA today myself. Come on guy's some of you hang out at various Mustang boards and other sites that pertain to the 3.8L motor. I know this is true because I see some of you post right here on our board talking about some of the things at those sites. Bring this subject up at those sites and post links to this thread to make it easier for them to find the info. This all started here and its the best place to keep it all together. Kevyn is now here and will post when he has the time, but he is a busy man and has a job to do so please dont expect him to be a SC gasket consultant 24 hrs a day. He will post when he is needed and gets the time. I honestly believe the man will do his best to help us because I've never had a co. rep contact me back as fast as this man did. He has even Emailed me to check on progress when I had not contacted him in a few days, so he's proved to me that he's willing to help.
We have an oportunity here to pick the brain of a man that uses this product in his own race car(even though its a cheby). LOL!!! :p not to mention most Chevy guy's would give us Ford guy's the time of day. Sure he works for Cometic but he has realtime experiance running the snot out of his motor with this product in it. I believe he will be fair and objective in giving answers to our qeustions and addressing our concerns. This is a golden oportunity so lets not waste it.

[MikeKanterakis]

Welcome Kevin the Gasket Man,

Thanks for helping us get these gaskets for our motors. In the mean time, can you post any company literature regarding the gaskets so we can all read over it while the post progresses? thanks.

[MIKE 38sc]

Mike I can help you with that. Here's a link to Cometics Automotive catalogue.
http://www.cometic.com/catalogs/AutoCat04.pdf

This is the link to Cometics Homepage and from there you can navagate around and learn about Cometic and all of there products.
http://www.cometic.com/index.htm

I'de like to add (and Kevyn can correct me if I'm wrong) that if the HG's become a reality and are successfull in sales it is possable that other gaskets in the 3.8L engine could be made also. But of course that depends on how successfull the HG's are.

Take a look at the engines Cometic makes HG's for. Even the Ford Pinto engine is listed! Are you guy's gonna let the Pinto bunch out do us? :eek:

[Gasket Man]

I'de like to add (and Kevyn can correct me if I'm wrong) that if the HG's become a reality and are successfull in sales it is possable that other gaskets in the 3.8L engine could be made also. But of course that depends on how successfull the HG's are.

Take a look at the engines Cometic makes HG's for. Even the Ford Pinto engine is listed! Are you guy's gonna let the Pinto bunch out do us? :eek:


Actually Mike, the other gaskets in that engine are easier for us to produce and are turned around usually in a timely manner. As long as a template is supplied we can generally turn out a product such as intake gaskets, exhaust gaskets, tb base gasket, and other gasket usually made from a fiber type material in a matter of a couple weeks. The main reason why the head gaskets are a different story is because of the actual tooling needed for us to stamp the sealing areas into the gasket. Other gaskets in the engine get there seal from the type of material that the gasket is made from and perform in a less demanding environment. Another nice point to hit is that not only can we produce an improved version for your head gaskets but we have improved material to increase sealing on other areas that I just spoke about. If you go to our catalog link posted above you can read a brief description of our main materials and the common applications.

[Andy 94SC]

Hey, how about a thermostat housing gasket that doesn't leak? I bet that'd be much more popular than the headgaskets!

[MIKE 38sc]

You have a point there Andy but I think you'll find that the real problem with the leaky thermo housing lies with the housing flange itself. I have a simple fix for that and this is not a sales pitch. PM me and I'll tell you how to do it yourself if you can weld.

[Andy 94SC]

You have a point there Andy but I think you'll find that the real problem with the leaky thermo housing lies with the housing flange itself. I have a simple fix for that and this is not a sales pitch. PM me and I'll tell you how to do it yourself if you can weld.

Mine doesn't leak now, thanks to half a tube of copper RTV. It isn't pretty, but it doesn't leak.

I know the housing flange is a bad design. I checked mine out pretty good to make sure it was flat, several times.

I just thought it would be nice if there was a good gasket that would pop in and seal for those who can't weld, or can't afford the downtime to send their's off to be welded.

[chuck93sc]

i am going to do a full rebuild in the spring

i am EXTREMELY interested in using a set of these, and will absolutely purchase them if they become available even tho i am going to have the block decked to fix the factory flaw

[Gasket Man]

Hey, how about a thermostat housing gasket that doesn't leak? I bet that'd be much more popular than the headgaskets!


Andy, what is the flaw that causes the housing to be so leaky? I may have a material that will help with the "drippy drips." Give me some more details on this flaw and maybe an OEM gasket and I will see what I can do.

[BT Motorsports]

Andy, what is the flaw that causes the housing to be so leaky? I may have a material that will help with the "drippy drips." Give me some more details on this flaw and maybe an OEM gasket and I will see what I can do.
Kevyn, the problem with the Tstat housing is really the thin stamping the flange is made from. When torqued onto the intake, it tends to warp and leaks after a few R&R. I have a redesigned housing I offer which fixes the problem, however If you are interested in making a better gasket, I would be happy to work with you on it and integrate it with my product as well.

Paul

[Andy 94SC]

Andy, what is the flaw that causes the housing to be so leaky? I may have a material that will help with the "drippy drips." Give me some more details on this flaw and maybe an OEM gasket and I will see what I can do.

Our intake manifold is aluminum. The housing is a stamped steel flange with a couple of tube welded to it, a large tube for the upper radiator hose, and a smaller tube for "burping" the cooling system.

In my experience they seal fine from the factory, but once you take them apart they don't re-seal very well. I think the steel flange tends to bend a bit, either when it is torqued down, or when it is removed from the intake.

I also see a lot of corrosion in that area, I assume from steel being bolted to aluminum. You really need to chase the threads out good in the intake with a tap, and make sure the threads are good on the bolts, so you can torque the bolts correctly. Too loose, it seeps, too tight and it tweaks the stamped flange, and seeps...

You also need to check the flange on a nice flat surface to make sure it isn't bent.

The gasket I usually get at a parts store is about 1mm thick and seems to be made from cardboard, it doesn't help matters much. As I said, I have been putting a layer of RTV on both sides of the gasket to help it seal to both surfaces, and paying a lot of attention to the bolt threads to ensure proper torque.

Would some pics of the housing and manifold help explain the trouble?

[MikeKanterakis]

Should we start another post regarding the rest of the gaskets? or can I just say here that it would be great to get a complete set from Cometic? Yeah!

[cougarsc]

When would the head gaskets be available?

[XR7 Dave]

Andy, what is the flaw that causes the housing to be so leaky? I may have a material that will help with the "drippy drips." Give me some more details on this flaw and maybe an OEM gasket and I will see what I can do.

Not only is the housing very weak, the bypass port is on an outside ear of the flange with very small margins. I can send a stock gasket, just need an address to ship to.

You can reply by email (see below) or PM if you prefer.

[victor malvar]

Hello Mike 38, paul,Dave (XR7), Scott Damon, Mag powered SC, and mike 86 and others.

I had the pleasure of speaking to Kevin just last week. I discussed that there is a definite Interest in the cometic gasket or gaskets. I have been speaking with other people about this gasket and they were not just from the SC/ XR7 community. Kevin and I spoke of numbers, quatities, and applications for this gasket for the SC etc. We made a proposal to him as far as quantity. They produce many gaskets for many Hi performace vehicles which some of us are aware of. Some of the vehicles using this type of gaskets are pushing 35 Lbs of boost some maybe even more. I told Kevin that we would be willing to make it worth their while to take the 3.8L SC end engine and produce a certain quantity. I then told him I was prepared to stick my neck out and place an order that he could present to Jacob, or Jason, the final decision maker of certain productions. A friend of mine who runs a 1600 Horsepower dragster, Rich Morin, told me about these gaskets. He has offered his Dyno to us as well. I just want to let you guys know that this has been talked about by us as well. We have a certain party that is interested in the MN12 or the Super Coupe for a Race car, using our SC's. I have been in contact with XR7 Dave on the Steighermier heads for their review. The car they are preparing to build is sponsored by a large company, and I have been brought into the picture. They are all enginners and have been measuring all types of parts I have made readily available to them. They speak in engineering language! As soon as I'm given the O.K. I will disclose this information to everyone. This is going to be a experimental from what I gather. I only mention this because they have used words such as "Cometic and Stieghmier" Which I mentioned to them. I then called XR7 Dave and asked him questions about these heads. We have been in contact faily regularly, but on other matters besides just this. I would like to have a poll done on the interest of the "Cometic gaskets. I'm willing to Purchase 100 for a starting figure. I would be happy to help our SC community being able to have acess to these gaskets to us all. A poll would help gauge this Interest. If Mike or David or even Myself would like to take that on...Plase let me know. Thanks for your time. I have another anoucement to mak tonight on some new procuct so Good Night everyone. Make sure you not to brake the 100MPH Speed limit. ;)
Victor...........

[MIKE 38sc]

Hello Victor!
Thanks for coming to the thread and a big thank you for stepping up to the plate with that commitment to buy that large qauntity. Please put me down as one of your first customers for a set of those HG's as soon as there available.
Victor I started a poll in the polls section the same night I started this thread.
Here's the link. http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57339
I hope this helps you and Kevyn.
I have also posted links to this discussion at the TCCOA in the 3.8-4.2 section and the Super Coupe section of there board.
David Neibert has been graciouse enough to spread the word at the TBU for us as well. Thanks David!
I dont visit any Mustang boards myself but we have members that do so maybe we can enlist one of them to help in that area.
I'll try contacting one of them and see if they will help.

[victor malvar]

QUOTE] Hello Victor!
Thanks for coming to the thread and a big thank you for stepping up to the plate with that commitment to buy that large qauntity. Please put me down as one of your first customers for a set of those HG's as soon as there available.
Victor I started a poll in the polls section the same night I started this thread.
Here's the link. http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57339
I hope this helps you and Kevyn.
I have also posted links to this discussion at the TCCOA in the 3.8-4.2 section and the Super Coupe section of there board.
David Neibert has been graciouse enough to spread the word at the TBU for us as well. Thanks David!
I dont visit any Mustang boards myself but we have members that do so maybe we can enlist one of them to help in that area.
I'll try contacting one of them and see if they will help.[QUOTE]GREAT MIKE! YOUR AHEAD OF THE GAME...THIS IS CALLED LEADERSHIP! YOU CERTAINLY HAVE THAT. I BELIEVE A CONCERTED EFFORT WILL BRING ABOUT GOOD RESULTS. YOU ARE ON THE LIST. THANKS AGAIN MIKE, AS USUAL...
ALL OUR BEST,
VICTOR AND MY DEAR WIFE DIANE!
SHE WORKS HER BUTT OFF FOR US ALL. :)
WITHOUT HER I'M NOTHING.
TALK WITH YOU SOON!SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS...

[Gasket Man]

I just wanted to chime in and say what an experience it is to deal with a group of automotive enthusiats who are this dedicated to the cars they drive. I have worked in the past with other "groups" and never seen dedication and devotion like this. It also makes me feel good that my hard work and effort is going to be appreciated by a very strong and knowledgable crowd. It is people like everyone on this board that allow me to enjoy my job! Keep up the good work.

[MIKE 38sc]

I just finished speaking with Jamie(V6sprout) our resident Mustang owner with a 3.8 SC motor and he has agreed to hit ALL of the Mustang site he frequents about these gaskets. I provided him with the links and he said he would be glad to help. :)
Guy's lets not get complacent about this. Hit all the sites you frequent that pertains to the 3.8 engine and get discussions going, provide links to this thread and the poll. We can make this happen! But not if we get complacent or give up. :)

[V6Sprout]

Hey everyone, I just go through reading all these posts, well read most of them, skimmed over a few. These gaskets sound great, I know the Ford MLS gaskets work great on our mustangs but I have heard of a few blown 3.8 Mustangs ven blowing the FORD MLS gaskets. These guys are now talking about o-ringing the blocks or heads to combat the problem. If these gaskets can help with sealing then this could eliminate the need for o-ringing the blocks at this particular time, many guys I have talked to find it very difficult to o-ring the V6 for some reason, can't remember exactly why.

I will post this up on the more popular V6 Mustang sites, most of our Mustang V6er's visit the other sites as well, but I iwll defiantely get this posted over on the major ones and see how the interst goes.

Mike how do you want me to gauge the interest? Post over here? Email you or someone else? I am sure they won't all want to come over here and aregister and post just to show interest, how shoudl we do this?

Here is the link to the post I added over on www.v6power.net I set up a poll on that thread as well so we can gauge interest there, now I will copy that post and add it to some other V6 sites as well.

I'll post all the links to the other thread so Cometic can view them and see the interest on other sites.(Remember though some guys post on more then one site so some results may have the same person voting on each site)

http://www.v6power.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37561&highlight=

Here is the same post over on www.3.8mustang.com again with the poll option.

http://www.3.8mustang.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105723

same post on www.stangnet.com with poll added

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=541265

same post on www.corral.net although NO poll option

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4427743#post4427743

same post on www.mustangworld.com with poll added

http://www.mustangworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283869

I also added this to the www.f150online.com site.

http://www.f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185486

same post on www.mustangevolution.com with poll option

http://www.mustangevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12303

[RGR]

I'd like to put in a plug for larger bore sizes, I'd like it for sleeved
cylinder bores and such. 3.910" (my measurements) limits what
can be done with bore sizes.

I'd also like to know if anyone has had an SC block sonic checked
and what the figures are. Bigger Bores = Bigger Valves and more
Cubes. Pouring the block is also an option, and these items
may all only really appeal to the Mustang guys, but there is your
"Big Market" that the aftermarket guys like to cater too.

The reason I ask is that I am 2 for 2 on run-of-the-mill 3.8 blocks
that I believe could be bored well over normal practice. Naturally
Aspirated Mustang guys could clearly use a bigger bore, and I'm sure
with the right block or sleeving or pouring or combination thereof, an
SC guy could do it as well. I've also had my machinist confirm some
of this, and he's supremely confident that any 3.8 block he's seen
can be bored at least .060" over and probably more. That is what
got me to measuring blocks

Checking on other engine combos, (bore spacing minus bore sizes)
has led me to conclude that if the sleeves are available, we could
sleeve and bore up to 4.000", more or less. That is much more than
a 3.910" gasket bore. Someone will do it sooner or later, and having
an HG set available for ~$160 is a big hurdle to have cleared already!

[dirtybird91]

Yes...I know who they are but I had hoped they would join in on the discussion here and let us know what efforts there making to help with this. Possably they are at other boards raising awareness, I dont know. David Dalke made an earlier plea that we all work together to help make this happen. I agreed with David then and just recently asked for anyones help again. I think more would be accomplished if we pooled our efforts, maybe I'm alone in that feeling.

Hey Mike! You are certainly not alone in your quest for the almighty cosmetic gaskets! I SUPPORT YOU 100% Who do we need to knock off to make this happen? :confused:

[J.D.]

Hey Mike! You are certainly not alone in your quest for the almighty cosmetic gaskets! I SUPPORT YOU 100% Who do we need to knock off to make this happen? :confused:
They're COMETIC, not COSMETIC!! :)
Now, now, don't try to knock me off. :eek:

[dirtybird91]

They're COMETIC, not COSMETIC!! :)
For now they are neither! :p

[J.D.]

For now they are neither! :p
Sad, but true!

[dirtybird91]

Sad, but true!

It's OK because MIKE is our fearless leader! :D

[MIKE 38sc]

I'd like to put in a plug for larger bore sizes, I'd like it for sleeved
cylinder bores and such. 3.910" (my measurements) limits what
can be done with bore sizes.

I'd also like to know if anyone has had an SC block sonic checked
and what the figures are. Bigger Bores = Bigger Valves and more
Cubes. Pouring the block is also an option, and these items
may all only really appeal to the Mustang guys, but there is your
"Big Market" that the aftermarket guys like to cater too.

The reason I ask is that I am 2 for 2 on run-of-the-mill 3.8 blocks
that I believe could be bored well over normal practice. Naturally
Aspirated Mustang guys could clearly use a bigger bore, and I'm sure
with the right block or sleeving or pouring or combination thereof, an
SC guy could do it as well. I've also had my machinist confirm some
of this, and he's supremely confident that any 3.8 block he's seen
can be bored at least .060" over and probably more. That is what
got me to measuring blocks

Checking on other engine combos, (bore spacing minus bore sizes)
has led me to conclude that if the sleeves are available, we could
sleeve and bore up to 4.000", more or less. That is much more than
a 3.910" gasket bore. Someone will do it sooner or later, and having
an HG set available for ~$160 is a big hurdle to have cleared already!

RGR Cometic has the ability to change the bore size of the gaskets on the fly.
These gaskets would also have 8 different thickness's as well. I have an engine in my shop that I'm seriously thinking about sleeving out and stroking.
so these gaskets would be perfect.

[MIKE 38sc]

It's OK because MIKE is our fearless leader! :D


oh jeeeez..........(mumbling) thank you Frank......

[dirtybird91]

oh jeeeez..........(mumbling) thank you Frank......

You are welcome little brother! :D

[RGR]

RGR Cometic has the ability to change the bore size of the gaskets on the fly.
These gaskets would also have 8 different thickness's as well. I have an engine in my shop that I'm seriously thinking about sleeving out and stroking.
so these gaskets would be perfect.

So then a little customizing would not really cost any more, or not so
much more? :D

Howz about the thicknesses so I can dream up some High CR NA combos? :cool:

[Gasket Man]

Okay seems you guys want a little more of the details so here goes.

The gasket bore size will only be limited by where the sealing embossments can be placed without interupting each other. With some feedback we can have a target number to reach for. If i know what the maximum bore to be run with or without resleeving we should be able to manufacture the gasket to accomodate most bore sizes from stock to max over bore. As far as thicknesses are concerned we can make all of the following: .027", .030", .036", .040", .045", .051", .060", .065", .071", .074", and in extreme cases possibly a .120". Now all of the .027" to .051" will be one price(TBD) .060 and .065 are another (slightly higher) .071 and .074 another and finally .120" being the most expensive of the gasket. Bore size will not effect price.

Hope this helps.

[RGR]

Please Email me Gasket Man, I noticed that you have no email listed.

I'll send you the info I have collected.

Also have to re-check some data, been a long time since I did this.

[RGR]

Anyone else feel free to chime in,
I'm sure someone has some data on cylinder wall thickness
that I have not seen. Anyone with any sonic check data?

[MIKE 38sc]

I certainly dont know but I am interested in this as well.
I really doubt anyone here has done any sonic testing on the block.
Most guy's here have done some intense blower and head mods but thats about it except for a couple of strokers.
Sleeving kind of makes the thickness of the factory cylinder walls kinda pointless does'nt it?
Cometic can make the gasket bores as big as needed so long as theres enough there to form a seal so it seems to me that issue is addressed, maybe I'm missing something.

[David Neibert]

I certainly dont know but I am interested in this as well.
I really doubt anyone here has done any sonic testing on the block.
Most guy's here have done some intense blower and head mods but thats about it except for a couple of strokers.
Sleeving kind of makes the thickness of the factory cylinder walls kinda pointless does'nt it?
Cometic can make the gasket bores as big as needed so long as theres enough there to form a seal so it seems to me that issue is addressed, maybe I'm missing something.


Mike,

Chris Wise bored his .050 over and still used stock 4.2 MLS gaskets. He thought he could have went to .070 without a problem on the block. IMO, The motor needs more stroke not a bigger bore.

David

[RGR]

David, Mike, I fully agree, from your SC perspective
so I guess most of this sonic interest is from the mustang camp.

Bigger Bore is a good thing for cubes regardless of application, but
the SC guys really need a billet stroker crank. A friend of mine has
actually located one, I think it was Moldex that made it but it was ~$2k!!!
If my memory is correct, he also said they can do them in strokes up to 4"
so that is a good start :)

My machinist friend said he has not seen any 3.8 block that he would not
feel comfortable in boring up to at least .060" and told me he believes we
could go "up to the gasket bore" (3.910") on them probably. But that is
from a Mustang perspective again, it might be dicey for you SC guys
with big boost numbers and everything else pushed to the limit.

[MIKE 38sc]

RGR, Dave I've seen oversized pistons for this motor as large as .080 over so somebody has used them before. Yes there are forged stroker cranks you can have built but as stated there expensive, but then again expense is'nt the over riding issue with someone thats building a Frankenmotor. Everybody's not gonna want to go to that extreme but there will be a few eventualy. I have an extreme feeling that the SC world is gonna get an extreme shock in the next year or so. Theres some things going on behind the scenes that I cannot comment on right now, but it should be very interesting and these gaskets would be a big help I believe.

[V6Sprout]

Gee thanks Mike, get our minds thinking now, you had to fdrop that bomb about something coming inthe FUTURE, now we are all gonna go crazy wondering what it is. DOH! :D

[RGR]

Sweeet!

Message sent ;)

[XR7 Dave]

A 4.00" bore should be the goal. If we can sleeve the block for that I see quite a number of people going that route. If you build it, they will come. Never has that statement been more true that in regards to this community.

Thanks Kevyn.

[MarksM]

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33102

[victor malvar]

The numbers being put out on this forum are one of the more Interesting ones I have seen on SCCoA. Mike, David, David N. everyone...It's going to happen. It's already being looked at by people I know are ready to put their minds $ to build It. It is going to happen, I have spoken with David (XR7), and Mike 38 Kevin at "Cometic" More than anyone else...If the Block will hold, the Heads, the Gasket, and these numbers being put out are pretty accurate! have been studied already, or have be be tested, in other cars. The SC is a Natural... It's a matter of a year or less! We did infact walk on the Moon we have a remote Mars explorer.... This is the most exciting projects being talked about! Just look around at the players here!!! I know people that are riding on every word being spoken here. There is past experience! I for one would be very Interested in Starting a prototype, I have friends ready, I would be ready to join in the production of starting to build one. What do we need to Start, Money, a place to to test how do we connect all the serious players, The shakers and the movers...I know the knowledge is here, the interest is also here! If this was not A do able project, Why are all we here! Lets get together and build one. I know some people that are ready to roll! In fact they are ready to build it. When can we start. I'm willing to do my part. This forum has 117 or so responds and Positive input. Mike you Started this I want to talk with you David and a few others Maybe we could have a multi phone confrence.
Victor........
www.spinningwheels-sc.com
Spinningwheels-sc@earthlink.net

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Things always get so strange around here.

Personally whatever gasket they deciede to make needs to work with a stock bore...And they can take it from there. Custom applications for larger bores

[MIKE 38sc]

Yeah Damon things are getting alittle off track here. I mean the disscussion is good and I have no problem with it but lets keep our eye on the ball here. That means generating enough interest that Cometic decides this is something they want to get involved in. The thread is so long now that people are skipping pertanent posts and we're starting to talk about things that have already been talked about, so lets recap for the sake of the folks that did'nt read 8 pages worth of posts.
1. The proposed Cometic HG's will work with the stock block and bore.
2. The same proposed HG's will work with all available oversizes.
3. The same proposed HG's can have there bores opened up on the fly at Cometic for those Franken motors some of us are obviously interested in doing sometime down the road.
4. The same proposed HG's will be available in 8 different thickness's

The key to all of this happening is getting the MLS Cometic HG's made, period! The tooling required to make those gaskets is the same tooling they will need to make any of the other HG's a customer may want. The tooling is the hurdle and the tooling is the same regardless of which of the above HG's a customer wants. The thickness is varied by changing the thickness of the stainless center sheet, this has nothing to do with the tooling. The bore diameter can be cut to any diameter that will leave enough area to seal, so that has nothing to do with the tooling. The tooling being talked about is the stamp or die that strikes the sealing ridges. Dies are very expensive to have made, maybe Cometic has inhouse die makers I do not know but even then its still a big investment on Cometics part.
We really need to get an understanding of the basics reqiured and thats the tooling, the rest of is just the iceing on the cake.
Please Kevyn, correct me if I've gone astray.
I'de like to hear comments from you on the thread that MarksM linked. I'll share my thoughts on the spray copper thread but I'de like to see your thoughts on that subject especialy.
Heres my .02 worth.
Back in the 70's when I first started playing with engines all the rage was spraying your HG's with silver,gold or copper paint, seems like everybody was doing it out of fear that the HG's would leak if they did'nt use some form of sealant. My personal beliefe is that some guys were building engines with really crappy gasket surfaces and they believed it helped to paint the gaskets. Then the rage became the Permatex spray copper thus replacing paint. Funny thing is I've never had a set of HG's fail after I replaced them because I did not paint them with Permatex or spray paint as long as the gasket surfaces are good. You have to use common sense here, you cannot get a rusty block out of the junkyard wire brush the rust off of the block decks and expect any gasket to hold for very long. There are many reasons why HG's blow after being replaced. The most common reasons being reusing bolts that you should not be reusing and improper torque. Improper torque can be caused by several different reasons as well, one being dirty threads in the block or bolts themselves. How many of you chase ALL threads in the block with taps when doing a rebuild or head job? some guy's do not lube the bolt threads and some just do not follow the proper torque seqeunce of the bolts.
Something that really impressed me about Cometic gaskets is I've used them on Harley Davidson engines. Those engines are notoriously known for leaking oil all over the place. I admit I was very skeptical about there ability to help that engine at all. Much to my suprise 3 of those engines I've built with Cometics do not leak 1 drop of oil, even the notorious cylinderbase gaskets are dry as a bone.
I know that proffesional engine builder Larry Widmere uses Cometic HG's on all his turbo and blower engines and most all of those are running 10.5-11.0 to 1 static compression and running boost pressures way up into the upper 20's and low 30's. Cometic is the only gaskets he uses and sells. Larry has the backing and the clout to use anything he wants and can make anything he needs that cannot be bought. Larry chooses and uses Cometic.
I highly respect Larry and all of his many accomplishments in the high performance engine industry. I'll take his endorsment over a couple of kids with a paint can anyday. Thats my .02

[Gasket Man]

Mike,

Cometic's view on the whole copper spray is that it should not be needed as long as the 50RA finish (or finer) reccomendation is followed. We have not been able to directly link any failures due to coating the gaskets but why add something if it is not needed. Personally I do not coat my gaskets but I always inspect my surfaces when I have my heads off. For those who like the "just in case" theory I can only tell you that if it makes you feel more comfortable with the install then go for it but the coats need to be even.

[RGR]

I'm satisfied that custom bores will be easily available,
but it seems that Kevyn wants a single bore size so
Cometic can avoid customs if at all possible. :confused:


3.91" will cover any oversize listed in this thread or emails
I have read recently, .080" over is the biggest I've read about
and that would be just 3.89" But sleeving is a real-world option!


I'll leave it up to Kevyn, but I also know an NA guy would not want
a 4.00" bore gasket if he was running a .040" thickness... especially
if said engine was running only a stock bore or standard overbore sizes.
I would consider that like "crevice volume" above piston rings, every little
decrease helps! That also is a concern for emissions. Some of us have to
watch for that, and I've designed many combos that needed to pass.


I really love the thinner gaskets for the NA crowd, I can see major gains
from using those and a proper piston dish, get that quench really working!
Even for the SC guys, but a bigger dish would be needed.

[MIKE 38sc]

Kevyn has stated that the HG's would be made with the std bore sizes in mind. Once the gaskets become a reality with the std bore size then IF a customer needs a larger bore size then all he would have to do is call up Cometic and order the HG's and tell them what bore size you want. Hence the phrase "doing it on the fly". The only limitation to the HG's bore size would be not getting into the sealing ring around the combustion chamber, there's just no way around that.
These are the thickness's Cometic makes there HG's in. .027 .030 .036 .040 .045 .051 .060 .065 .071 .074 .120
and if I'm not mistaken the HG's that are presently available to us 3.8 users is a compressed thickness of .038-.039.
I dont think Kevyn is trying to avoid custom bore diameters or thickness's as he said to me that all of the options would be available once the tooling for the gaskets are made, its just that we need to get past all of this and concentrate on getting the tooling. ALL of the optional bore sizes and thickness's will use the same tooling as the std bore sizes. am I making sense here? We're kinda whoop'in a dead horse concentrating so much on the custom aspect of things. Because once the tooling is made any of the custom stuff is easily done without retooling.
Kevyn please step in if I'm off base here. :)

[RGR]

Maybe I misunderstood, but it seemed from an email that
Kevyn would like to just make 1 bore size that fit everyone...

Please clarify Kevyn.

[MikeKanterakis]

What are the benefits and drawbacks with too much/little c.v.?

[MikeKanterakis]

One bore Size? WOW!!! :eek: :confused:

[RGR]

One bore Size? WOW!!! :eek: :confused:

Just GASKET bore, not piston bore size.

Stock gaskets are around 3.91 gasket bore size, and
this would be the max size piston bore it would work
with. Tha's what we are trying to work out here.

Don't be scared :D

[Gasket Man]

Maybe I was a little unclear. For the tooling we are going to try and set it up at max bore size so one set of DIES can be used for all the common bore sizes. Hope this clears up the confusion. Custom bore sizes are not a problem at all unless they exceed the capabilities of our tooling.

[MikeKanterakis]

I'm a little confused still. If the tooling is set up for maximum bore size, then what is done after this max sized hole is cut in order to line up the gasket with the cylinder?

[MIKE 38sc]

Mike what Kevyn is talking about is the tooling being set up for max bore size.
The tooling he is talking about is the die that stamps the ridge(for the lack of a better term) in the 2 outer layers of metal that create the seal. That ridge will be placed in a manner that allows the bore sizes to be changed. Go to Cometics site and take a look at there HG's. You will see the sealing ridge's encircleing the bores and water passages. Those ridges will be far enough away from the bores to accomodate different bore sizes, to a point of course.

[MikeKanterakis]

Yeah, I think I see what you're saying, but I guess that if the gasket is only ridged/cut for the big bore size, then everyone else will have a larger area of space between their heads and block. I was under the impression that a closer fit was better. But, I don't have any reason to think that. Other than if there is more space, there would be a pocket of presure created around the cylinder. If it doesn't matter, then fine, but I was just trying to get a clearer picture.

[MIKE 38sc]

Mike the sealing ridge is not right at the edge of the cylinder bores. You have extra material that takes up the space from the sealing ridge to the the bore edges. That extra material between the sealing ridge and the bore edge is what can be changed to accomodate larger bores, no extra tooling is needed to make this change in dimension. The sealing ridge will be put in a location that allows for this extra material that will give the bore diameter adjustability.
Sorry we have not done a good job of describing this, Does this help you to understand better? :)

[RGR]

Stock Bore Size: 3.81"
Stock HG Bore : 3.91"

This is all factory stuff, as it rolled off the assembly line.
There is a void there, but this is common practice for
all mfg's AFAIK. You are right, I'd like to see bore size and gasket bore being
equal, as long as the fire ring can handle this. I'm sure a Cometic can!

David Vizard only uses the best, and Cometic appears to be his current favorite.

[Gasket Man]

You guys are figuring it out. The dies that we make are for stamping the sealing areas into the gasket (fixed dimensions). We cut the holes into the gasket at whatever the desired bore size is and the sealing ring remains in the same location you just end up with more material from the sealing area in towards the bore. If I knew how to place diagrams on here I would post one. You'll see once the gaskets are a go.

[MikeKanterakis]

Ok, now I understand. I didn't know how the process worked.

I still wonder which is better, to have the Stamped Sealing area match the bore size, or to have some extra material between the cylinder and the Stamped Sealing area? Or maybe it doesn't matter? I guess, what I should be asking, is what's the reason for the "stamped" sealing area as opposed to not having one. Maybe? does it give the gasket a rigid-ness to stop the "floating" action around the cylinder? I think I remember reading earlier that the top half of the gasket moves with the head, and the bottom half moves with the block. So, I guess you don't want that movement around the cylinder, rather, we should have a solid seal in that area?

Mike38, Don't get me wrong, you're doing a great job of explaining things. My ingnorance leads me to ask questions. I'm all for a better head gasket, I just want to have a complete understanding of the Cometic product. :)

Also, in reading through the Cometic catalogue, there's mention of a brass rivet. I hope were NOT going to need to use side-cutters to remove any rivets?

[Kurt K]

Also, in reading through the Cometic catalogue, there's mention of a brass rivet. I hope were NOT going to need to use side-cutters to remove any rivets?

Unlike the 4.2 MLS gaskets that people are using which were originally designed for a different application (the reason the rivet needs to be removed), I'm sure these gaskets would have the rivet located so it wouldn't have to be removed.

[Gasket Man]

The rivets will be in a location where the will clear both the block and the head. As for the stamped sealing area on the gasket it does just that. If it were simply three flat layers of metal you would not have a seal between any of the surfaces. Basically what happens is as you torque the heads down those stamped areas compress giving you a preload to the head, block and between the layers of the gaskets. In simpler terms think of it as a lock washer and how it gives a constant tension to stay tight. With this said when the gasket is compressed it does not matter where the sealing areas are stamped thus the reason for being place at the maximum dimensions. Also by doing so it gives us the option of cutting different bore sizes into the gasket without compromising the seal. I am glad you guys are asking questions and remember the only stupid question is the one not asked.

[MIKE 38sc]

Well where did everybody go? :confused: All the qeustions asked? All the qeustions answered? Well lets get going then.
Kevyn when do you plan to make the propossale to your boss's?
I really think you'll sell these gaskets without much of a problem once word gets out about there quality and performance. After all you guy's do make them for the Pinto engine and Ford Cosworths. There's not nearly as many of those floating around as there are 3.8's. :)
Victor's made a commitment to buy from you and I've made a commitment to buy from Victor, so we're not skeered. Lets get'er done! :)

[dirtybird91]

Well where did everybody go? :confused: All the qeustions asked? All the qeustions answered? Well lets get going then.
Kevyn when do you plan to make the propossale to your boss's?
I really think you'll sell these gaskets without much of a problem once word gets out about there quality and performance. After all you guy's do make them for the Pinto engine and Ford Cosworths. There's not nearly as many of those floating around as there are 3.8's. :)
Victor's made a commitment to buy from you and I've made a commitment to buy from Victor, so we're not skeered. Lets get'er done! :)

You have my commitment too, but I will need mine Very, VERY soon! As in a week. PM me if you have a price for a set. ;)

[MIKE 38sc]

Well I dont think it will happen that fast Frank, but like you I could have used them yesterday. I'm willing to wait but lets get a timeframe on all of this now.
There's been ample time for talk now, time for the next phase.
I need something to stand up to what I'm building and I have no faith in the Felpro's at this point.

[victor malvar]

[/QUOTE] Well I dont think it will happen that fast Frank, but like you I could have used them yesterday. I'm willing to wait but lets get a timeframe on all of this now.
There's been ample time for talk now, time for the next phase.
I need something to stand up to what I'm building and I have no faith in the Felpro's at this point.

Last time I saw Kevin,

It was a good time. I met his boss but he was a lttle distant. I drove a long way to speak with him but I guess The timing was wrong. I felt he was interested in other things such as the Imports going down the track as Kevin worked his butt off. Diane and I then had to take a break and from the show. We felt a lack of interest. Sometimes timing is of essence. I have not persued this any longer. I hear the 4.2L Gaskets can work pretty well. I will talk with kevin again soon. He is Married and has been a pretty busy guy. Let's see what the future brings. For now we are not persuying this as we were a year ago. If antone wants to persue this...Please do.Thanks Kevin you have been a great friend call me.

[Gasket Man]

As soon as I get a formal order and a block and heads in house we can start this locomotive down the rails. Well I need back the custom gasket request form as well (Victor). Almost there guys!

[MikeKanterakis]

Just wanted to check if there were any updates? Has someone already signed up to provide a block and heads?

[RGR]

The good news from me is that I plan to start a big-bore build this summer,
and will get a custom bore size Cometic set then! :D :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :D

[victor malvar]

Victor received only 4 replies! I do not think we want to chance 100 sets of gaskets when only 4 people responded. Then Victor spoke with Kevin and they needed a block and the heads. Victor agreed to do this. We have been looking for extra help. Victor has not wanted to tell anyone that he has been under the weather for over 2 weeks maybe 3. If Victor does not get better, I will be taking him to the Mayo clinic for a complete check up. He is always ready to assist anyone and still answers emails and some easier task as always. He is just very tired constantly and does not have the strength to be lifting blocks, engines on to pallets. He has been looking to hire outside help. That is about all we wanted to say at this time.If anyone else is still interested in these gaskets, you must email us and let us know so that we can gauge it.
All the best,
Victor and Diane
www.spinningwheels-sc.com

[MIKE 38sc]

This is really sad news. With all the talk and complaining people do about co.'s not making parts for our cars and only 4 people stepped up to the plate.
I had a fellow SCCOA member PM me not long ago telling me about how he felt things had really changed around here concerning issues like this. Well here's the proof about how wrong he was.
I cannot blame Victor 1 bit for not sticking his neck out on this one.
Victor take time off and take care of yourself, this place will go on just as it always has sadly.
Deal mainly in bling bling items if you want to sell something. There just is not big enough interest in high perf stuff for these cars.
Such a shame as I'm sure this level of interest will affect the big project that was in the works and would have paved the way for some very interesting performance products down the road.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[WinnipegSC]

i think what may be scareing everyone off are the three things that i know scare me when purchasing stuff


1) thier isnt a proven product on the 3.8. everything seams to fail adn without proff against it people are still uneasy

2) no set in stone price.. id hate to say YES for sure then be told ohh eyah its gonan eb an extra $XX number of dolars that i really didnt not plan on spending

3)this thread isnt as noticable as some people still onyl visit ether there own club area(ontario west canada stuff like that) and still think felpro is the way to go

ontop oif that i ahve one final question you say thats u dont need coper spray as long as the heads and deck are nicely finished but lets say you where unsure if the deck was perfect enough would the spray be a plus for not clean enough milling above 50

[sail7seas]

I'm puzzled 47 people in the Polls Forum said they would buy Cometic HG,
but only 4 emailed him spinningwheels@earthlink.net :confused:

My uncommon sense tells me I better do it before it's to late. :eek:

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57339

_______________

[Kurt K]

Mike: I guess I missed that part where Victor was requesting emails from those who were interested. Lately, I've haven't been around as much as I used to be. Anyway, I would have most likely bought a set the next time I needed them, but, unlike my past history, I would not have bought any until they were needed. Unfortunately, my priorities have changed a little and I can't afford to hoard parts like I used to. I've participated in numerous group buys only to guarantee the part gets made...early run of BHJ dampner (I bought 2), Cobra R hood (sitting in my basement for 5 years now), triple gauge pod (bought 2 to help make the required number of pieces needed).

WinnipegSC: I can see your point about item 2, however, that's the way it has to be. If a vendor sets a price that too low, and they loose too much money on the deal, they may not ever want to make another part for the community or have to overcharge so much on the next part that nobody buys. On the other hand, if the item is priced too high, but guarantees the company/vender makes a profit, it may be priced so high that nobody even wants to initially buy the item. Unfortunately, the unknown price is the nature of custom parts.

Heck, with all of this rambling I've just about talked myself into buying a set of these gaskets if they would be made, even though I don't currently need gaskets. I'm surprised some of the V6 Mustang community let this part die. Seems to me they've got a vested interest too.

[V8Supercoupe]

Yeah, I apologize for being a little late to the dance on this one, because I would have bought a set. Possibly, even 2 just to have. Even with Kurt and I factored into the deal,,,,Helll, even if 10 more people were serious buyers, I don't know if it could have gotten done.
It is too bad.

Skip

[sizemoremk]

I responded to that email address, I asked how much and what the time frame would be, and didn't get a response of any kind... I'm not sure they even got it.....

Anyways I think more would have responded if a time frame was more clear, and if deposit ammount was given with a deadline.

If there was a $50-$75 deposit with a deadline, maybe there would be more clarity. Maybe like "We need deposits for xx number of sets before March 25" or there will be no SC cometics..."


On the price issue, I have not been involved in any first run custom parts, so I was also unaware that it is customary to order parts without a total. I would have thought the total would be decided before a decision is made.... I think its kinda unprofessional; if I do work for someone and and underestimate my cost, I don't raise the price I already quoted! But I'd probably be more accurate the next time. I would say he needs to give a definate ceiling on the price.

I mean I aint paying $200+ bucks for them when no one has used them. I might would go $175; but $200+ is just too far away from the cost of the proven Ford MLS gaskets... Some others may feel the same way...
Just my opinion.

Anyways, I don't think it was very clear that it was "cometic or die" time, I didn't see a deadline or anything.

Perhaps try again with a deposit ammount, deadline, and expected time frame when the part will be available. Maybe we'll see a little more interest.

I'm just about ready to do the rebuild, prolly pullin' the motor over spring break. I'd pay for a set now if I had a total, or could be garanteed a ceiling... I'd just hope they would be available before I get my engine done, if not I'd just have them for next time....

[Gasket Man]

I figured I would chime in again to try and lighten the mood with some definate information. This by no means is a dead topic. We have finally set pricing for these gaskets and I have spoken with Victor about them. Here is where Cometic is setting the retail prices at. For .027" to .051" thickness (and any bore size) the retail price will be $76.60 per gasket. So one set will cost $153.20 plus shipping. For the .060" and .065" thickness the price is $84.25 each ($168.50 per set) and for the .071" and .074" thickness is $96.90 each ($193.80 per set.)

The only bit of information I am still uncertain about is going