Possable Cometic Head Gaskets!

MIKE 38sc

Registered User
Guy's I just got done talking with Kevyn Kistner of Cometic gaskets about the possability of making HG's for the 3.8L Ford engine. He tells me that they are interested because of the many calls they have recieved regarding the problems with the HG's available to us. However they would like some indications of how many sets could be sold as they would need to recoupe there tooling costs.
Maybe just maybe we can finaly get some much needed help in this area IF there's enough SERIOUS interest in them.
Please serious coments and qeustions only and NO BS!
BS of any kind is only going to reflect poorly on this comunity and we do not need that.
Kevyn has indicated that they are interested in a qaulity product that address's all our needs. I made it clear that we need something that holds up to high boost pressures as well as NO2.
I asked him to give me a couple of days to work on this, so lets get moving!
Fire off qeustions or comments, but please SERIOUS interested party's only!

PS: By the way this is not an exclusive deal to me, meaning I will not be selling them nor will I profit from it in any way. Should they start making these anyone would be able to buy them direct from Cometic or through any of there dealers, so I stand to gain nothing from this other than trying to help the comunity.
 
Mike,

How will Cometic gaskets be differeint from the late model 4.2 F-150 MLS gaskets (made by FelPro) that are already being used ?

David
 
Mike, I am going to carefully (I will probaby get my head chewed off for this) say we don't need them. I have yet to hear of anyone blowing a properly installed 4.2mls gasket. What we need are some better heads with a strong deck.

Paul
 
David I've Emailed Kevyn the following list of qeustions that came to my mind once he Emailed me that they were interested. Should anyone think of something that I did not please post it and I'll get them to him.

1. What type of construction would these gaskets possably be?
2. What type of finish would be required on the block and heads surfaces?
3. How do you gaskets standup to electrolisys? (I've noticed this to be a big problem)
4. Would you be considering making entire engine gasket sets or just head gaskets?
5. Ball park cost of the gaskets?

Obviously I do not know the answer to your qeustion at the moment David. But just geussing on my part by looking at there site on there construction the 2 outer layers may have a coating of Viton rubber. Just as soon as I hear back from Kevyn I'll post the answers to the above qeustions.
 
BT Motorsports said:
Mike, I am going to carefully (I will probaby get my head chewed off for this) say we don't need them. I have yet to hear of anyone blowing a properly installed 4.2mls gasket. What we need are some better heads with a strong deck.

Paul

I understand what you're saying here Paul, but I do wonder if after more time is put on the Ford MLS HG's will there still be a problem with electrolysis?
My concern on this is that my brother inlaws Ford 4.2 truck suffered such a failure before it hit 48,000 miles. He is very good about keeping up the maintenance on his vehicals and changed his coolant regularly, so that was'nt the problem.
Prehaps Cometics MLS construction with there coating of Viton rubber will be the answer to that problem.
Naturaly theres nothing that can be done about the combustion chambers lifting in very high boost pressures short of pining the chambers themselves or a completely new head casting with thicker decks. But maybe these gaskets could resolve the other issues we have.
I appreciate your comments. :)

EDIT: Another thing that comes to mind is the possability that the Viton coating will not reqiure such a special finish on the block and heads. That service might not be available to everyone at there machine shops.
But of course that is just a geuss on my part until I hear back from Kevyn.
 
EDIT: Another thing that comes to mind is the possability that the Viton coating will not reqiure such a special finish on the block and heads. That service might not be available to everyone at there machine shops.

Mike,

If they will seal without having to deck the block surface, I think they will be very popular.

David
 
What timeframe are we talking about here? If its a month or 2 I would be interested. More than that I would have to pass for now. I'm getting the block back from the machine shop this week and want to get it put back together. If I don't do it now, hopefully it will be a while for the next time. I did have the heads milled and the block decked.

I originally called Cometic because the engine builder at Well Racing highly recommended them.
 
Scott Long said:
are the ford mls ones reusable?

Scott,

I've heard they were, but knowing what a pain it is to change head gaskets, I would not take the risk of a leak by re-using the old gaskets just to save $90.

David
 
Ummm..

I dont see anything cool about usinag a factory gasket in which I need to pop a rivet out and remachine my heads and block surface..

So what mike is proposing is a great idea...Get ya heads out from under the sand
 
Also Ive used those gaskets without failure on boosted applications(low boost) without resurfacing. v8 applications
 
Answers to Qeustions:

OK as promised here's the Email response I recieved from Kevin on those 5 qeustions I sent earlier.


Mike,



Here are some answers for your questions.



1. If we get enough interest we can manufacture the gaskets with a MLS (multi layer steel) design to insure the best possible design is being used.

2. For MLS gasket deck and head surfaces need to be at least a 50RA finish or finer.

3. I haven’t heard of electrolysis being a problem with our gaskets before so there should not be any problems now.

4. We will probably only offer head gaskets at first but it could easily stem into intake and exhaust gasket or any other gasket that would be in high demand..

5. Ball park price on the gaskets would be roughly $80 per gasket or $160 per set of 2. Of course as custom thicknesses were ordered the prices would change accordingly.



I hope these answers will help you explain to your fellow enthusiasts what a quality product we supply. If you need anything else you know what to do.







Kevyn Kistner

Cometic Gasket

8090 Auburn Road

Concord, OH 44077
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

so in regards to qeustion #1 they would be constructed just as there other head gaskets MLS and include the 2 outer layers coated on both sides with Viton rubber. I do not know if the Ford MLS gaskets have this, you guy's that are using them please comment.

# 2 answers the surface finnish that would be needed. I'm not sure what is needed for the Ford MLS gaskets. But you guy's that are using them can remark on any difference(if at all) between the 2.

#3 Really interests me because every single set of heads I've pulled on these engines has had the telltale white powder of electrolysis leading from the water jacket to the fire ring on at least 1 cylinder. That has lead to the failure of at least 99% of the HG's I've seen.

#5 answers the price qeustion. I dont know what Ford gets for there MLS gaskets so again you guy's with experiance in that area feel free to chime in.
#5 also eludes to these gaskets being available in different thickness's and that would be a nice option to have when building certain special engines that are being built and planned today.

Thanks to Ron,George,Duffy or whomever it was that moved this thread to this forum. I appreciate it.
Please continue to voice your qeustions or comments and after a couple of days I'll gather them up and forward them to Kevyn to get the answers.
Kevyn seems to be pretty interested in helping out as he has been replying to my Emails very quickly, much quicker than any other co. I've talked to.
Thanks guy's.
 
Weird, real wierd.
When I saw this post it didn't appear that anyone posted to it yet. I must have been asleep when I posted.
Sorry 'bout the xtra post.


Skip
 
Mike,

The cost of the Ford/Felpro MLS gaskets range from $43 to $55 each depending on where you buy them. The last set I purchased was cheaper from Ford @ $43 each. Autozone wanted around $55 each to order the Felpro numbers.

David
 
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I can't say that I know from personal experience, but the place where I got my ballance says that you do need a special cut on both the heads and the engine deck / DCM / Single-bit Carbide.

So, this isn't going to be a big sale to begin with. Well at least not nearly as big as our stated membership. You're going to be dealing with guys how are planning for the next rebuild now! You sick puppies know who I'm talking about....

Mike 38sc, I wonder if they (Cometic) really know the answer to the "watter jacket creep" you're referring to in question #3 "electrolisys". I mean, that's a pretty specific complaint you're dealing with. If the answer is truly no, well, sign me up!

Regarding price. Are they really THAT good? I mean, you have to buy them individually? Regardless; If we can have delivery in a few weeks, I'll buy 2 individual gaskets for $160.
 
MikeKanterakis said:
I can't say that I know from personal experience, but the place where I got my ballance says that you do need a special cut on both the heads and the engine deck / DCM / Single-bit Carbide.

So, this isn't going to be a big sale to begin with. Well at least not nearly as big as our stated membership. You're going to be dealing with guys how are planning for the next rebuild now! You sick puppies know who I'm talking about....

Mike 38sc, I wonder if they (Cometic) really know the answer to the "watter jacket creep" you're referring to in question #3 "electrolisys". I mean, that's a pretty specific complaint you're dealing with. If the answer is truly no, well, sign me up!

Regarding price. Are they really THAT good? I mean, you have to buy them individually? Regardless; If we can have delivery in a few weeks, I'll buy 2 individual gaskets for $160.

Well from the guy's that have experiance with the finish concerning the Ford MLS gaskets it seems that the Cometic's are not as picky on the finish, unless I have the #'s backwards.
I pretty much knew the answer to #3 myself, having alot of experiance in that field. The Cometics are coated in Viton rubber so electrolisys is impossable. I merely asked them the qeustion because I wanted to post there response to it.
I would have to say that there's probably no way they would be ready for market in 2 weeks or less.
This was never meant to be an imeadiate answer to anyones build that will be done in that timeframe. Instead it was meant as a possable solution to a known problem that we all eventually share. We will all replace HG's again in the future, thats for sure. My thoughts on this were that prehaps the Cometics would possably be a much longer term solution for the 90% or so of SC engines that are used mostly in a stock manner, now of course guy's pushing the limits with high boost and NO2 are eventualy gonna blow any HG in time.
I think this thread has run its course. There are 238 views of this thread and only 18 comments, so it seems pretty clear to me(as it would Cometic) that this community is not interested in Cometic designing any gaskets for this engine.
I will notify Cometic of the results and thank them for there time and interest in working with us on this project. But I think its a dead horse so I'll let it lay.
Thanks guy's for the input.
 
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