Clutch rebuild gone bad. Please help.

rolltide

Registered User
Hi everyone. As many people recommended, I ordered the Spec I clutch kit from Bill at Super Coupe Performance. I also got the B&M shifter. I went today to get my car looking forward to the feel of a new clutch.

My mechanic and I went for a drive. As soon as I start letting off the clutch, the whole car started shaking and shimmiing and there was a nasty clatter noise coming from the clutch. It happens going into 1st and Reverse. Once going, all is fine. It is also extremely hard to shift between gears. I thought the shifter was suppose to make it funner to drive, not give me a arm workout, my wife could not really even shift the gears. This has got to be somehow related. My mechanic tried to blame the parts so I called Spec and they said it was probably not installed right. They also asked if the flywheel had been resurfaced, which it had not been. The slave cylinder was also not replaced if that matters.

Point is, when I stood outside the car and watched the mechanic drive it, it sounded aweful and I could see the car lurching and jumping as he took off in 1st gear. Bill Evanoff at SCP also said it was the mechanics fault, but this guy has done a lot of work on a lot of cars of mine and friends and family.. Any professional advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

-Tony
 
well somethings obviously wrong and you have to take it out either way, id make sure everything is installed right and go from there...i doubt the parts are faulty, but stuff happens, and people can make mistakes...not saying hes a bad tech or anything but mistakes happen...take it out and see whats up with it...but you should have resurfaced the flywheel,a nd the new b&M shifter will feel a lil tighter

edit: also, what other parts did you install with this new clutch and press plate....did you replace the slave cylinder??? and i take it you didnt replace the pilot bearing??? if you didnt take the flywheel off???
 
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clutch

Hi. Thanks for the reply. My tech siad he replaced the pilot bearing, but that is weird because I actually was on my way to him with one from Oreilly's because Bill at SCP said the kit did not come with one. Also, the slave cylinder was not replaced.
 
well when you take it all apart again i'd replace the slave cylinder while you are in there, and resurface the flywheel, but id make sure you look at everything and make sure nothing is broken, and everything is installed properly. could be someting small and stupid
 
rolltide said:
They also asked if the flywheel had been resurfaced, which it had not been.

Thats where you went wrong. I had the same problem with my clutch last year. 1st, I didn't break it in. I learned to drive on it and I found the easiest way to learn was to jam through the gears. Well, after I learned to drive a manual, it would chatter, I thought I just needed some fine tuning but apparently not. I took it out a couple months ago because I'm getting a stage 2 spec. The flywheel had all kinds of smear marks on it and had to be replaced. You HAVE to resurface a flywheel when you replace a clutch with alot of miles. In my case it had seen VERY HARD miles. Equivalent to that of a high milage clutch. Its chattering against those smear marks. Alot of clutch manufacturers will void the warranty if the flywheel isn't resurfaced. Also, if the flywheel has already been resurfaced then you will most likely need a new one.
 
Yep....just like you do not install new brake pads on old unresurfaced rotors, you do not intall new clutch disc on old unresurfaced flywheel. Get it tore back down quick and have that flywheel resurfaced or you'll ruin that new disc and have to buy another.
 
thanks

Thanks so far. I asked the mechanic about the flywheel and he said mine was fine. Is he just lost and confused. Is it apparent and obvious when the flywheel needs done.

I have not even driven it a mile yet. I will have to have them tear it back down I guess. Also, should I order a new slave cylinder. They said mine looked fine, but should it be replaced anyways.

On the B&M shifter issue, will it be easier to shift the gears shifter once the flywheel is resurfaced.
 
how many miles since it was replaced? And it would be a VERY good idea to replace a $100 part that costs almost 10 times as much in labor to access.
 
Clutch Disk

What kind of clutch did you get with the SPEC? My SPEC disk was ceramic. With a ceramic clutch, you can't granny it. You have to let out the clutch fairly quickly. Not burnin' out, just quicker than you would an OEM clutch. Letting out a ceramic clutch slowly will make it chatter. Mine took some getting used to.

Also, the Ripper will be pretty notchy for about 6 months. Once it's broken in, It'll be alot better.

68COUGAR
 
Looks like I've got someone in my corner...

Since I found SCCOA, many people have raved about SPEC Clutches, their quality and how well they fit our cars. So naturally, since I found my SC on these very forums, I bought a SPEC Stage I clutch from Bill @ SCP. (Although for the record, none of this was his fault.) I installed it myself, and resurfaced the flywheel in the process, (although usually you can just hit it with an orbital sander) I had it cut to be extra safe. The pressure plate did not fit right, but I modified it to do so. And after final assembly, I experienced the VERY SAME violent shaking and shuttering that you describe. When I tore it apart, the PP was tight and centered against the flywheel; everything was torqued to specs. Nothing seemed wrong. So I did the only thing I could do. I ordered an LUK clutch for half the price and installed it. (LUK is the O.E.M. manufacturer.) Works perfectly. I sent the disk, PP, and throwout bearing (along with that humongous brass bushing I got instead of a pilot bearing) back to SPEC for my money back. They tested it, and found the pressure plate to be defective. The diaphram spring had broken loose from the PP surface in some spots. The point is, I have my original slave cylinder, and I only sanded the flywheel with an orbital the second time around. The SPEC PP was to blame. Just thought I'd share my experience. :(
Brian
 
Hi. Thanks for the reply. Would you recommend that I save myself the time and money and just order a new LUK clutch and have them install that and resurface the flywheel. They did say the flywheel looked fine. Did you have any problem with SPEC or Bill getting your money back. Did they refund it only after they checked it and how long did the refund take. I see the LUK clutch is $246 and the SPEC one was $285, is that what you paid. Does the LUk feel just like the OEM one. Did you also replace your slave cylinder? Thanks for the advice.

-Tony
 
Your mechanic tried to cut corners, save some time and money (your's and his) and it bit you both in the butt. It's obvious when a flywheel is badly in need of being cut. However, it's not readily obvious if it's warped. It's very very very common for the inner portion of the flywheel to wear more than the outside. Kind of making a bowl out of it. It only take .010" of cupness to f'up a new clutch.

Also, the slave cylinder should ALWAYS be replaced if you do not know how long it's been in there. It's $100 and comes with a TO bearing. Much cheaper and less time consuming than doing it twice. You can't see inside of it to see how the orings look. You can take the bearing off and look for gouge marks, but that's only half of it. Not putting anti-seize on the slave cylinder before installing the bearing is another cause for chatter.

Changing the PIA pilot bearing but not changing the 30 second slave cylinder is stupid.

Just my opinions though.
 
clutch

Ok. I just bought a slave cylinder from O'reillys today along with the rear main seal. I am going to have my mechanic tear down the clutch again and I am going to order the LUK. It should be here quick from Florida to Alabama. What exactly should I have done to the flywheel. Even though my mechanic said it "looked" fine, should I have it resurfaced anyways. I know the first owner of the car already replaced the clutch once, but I am not not if he did anything to the flywheel. Also, what is this I read about the slave cylinder being shimmed. I really hope these guys can do this right this time. I am going to send the SPEC clutch back and get a refund, are they pretty good with customer service. Thank you again everyone for all the help.

Semper Fi!!!
 
id stick with the spec but do what you want, take the flywheel to a machine shop and they will "turn it" just like brake rotors, they'll take some material off of it.
 
Slow Down Bunkie

rolltide said:
Ok. I just bought a slave cylinder from O'reillys today along with the rear main seal. I am going to have my mechanic tear down the clutch again and I am going to order the LUK. It should be here quick from Florida to Alabama. What exactly should I have done to the flywheel. Even though my mechanic said it "looked" fine, should I have it resurfaced anyways. I know the first owner of the car already replaced the clutch once, but I am not not if he did anything to the flywheel. Also, what is this I read about the slave cylinder being shimmed. I really hope these guys can do this right this time. I am going to send the SPEC clutch back and get a refund, are they pretty good with customer service. Thank you again everyone for all the help.

Semper Fi!!!
MARINE, Calm down! We're here to help you.

Talk to XR7dave about clutches & milling an OEM flywheel.

If you buy the SPEC alum. flywheel, you'll get a replaceable clutch surface. From then on Forget cutting the flywheel, & figuring how it'll affect the clutch. Just replace the flywheel clutch plate, & be done with it!

68COUGAR
USAF SSgt, Retired
 
my experience, my spec stage 2 works great, I did however resurface my flywheel, replace the slave cyl, as well as the pilot bearing, and have had no problems. I'm not sure what part of 'bama you're in, but you do know that spec clutches are manufactured here? its right outside of b-ham, if you're nearby you might be able to have them check yours, but I've heard nothing but good things about them.
 
As Brian stated, his issue with the Spec Clutch was a failed pressure plate that Spec identified.

The issue in this case could be one of many items. The mechanic should inspect the pressure plate carefully. Did he check the Flywheel for run-out or did he just eyeball it? Most likely there is some runout in the flywheel that will need to taken care of. And as others have stated, it just doesn't make sense to pull the clutch and not replace the slave cylinder. A good mechanic would have told you that. Not saying your guy isn't good, but he doesn't seem to be taking care to make your repair a long term fix.

If you have to cut the flywheel too much, you may find you need to shim the slave cylinder to keep the distances within spec. These cars can be picky bastards.
 
thanks

Here is what I am doing due to time constraints. I have just ordered a LUK clutch kit that includes the slave cylinder. It will be here tomorow and in the car on Wednesday. I am also having the flywheel resurfaced. Then I will send the SPEC clutch back to SPEC. If they find the clutch/pressure plate bad, then I will get a refund I guess. If they find it to be good, then I guess I will get a letter from them stating it to be good and I most likely will have to sell it on the forums or ebay. Thank you all for the help and I will let you all know what happens after the rebuild.

One more thing, I could not find XR7dave on the club. I tried to PM him, but it said "user name not found".
 
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Hmm... You guys are making me wish I had replaced the slave cylinder now... it is a pain to get out of there...... With my luck, today I'll get in the 'Bird and be spraying hydraulic fluid everywhere! :eek:
 
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