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XR7 Dave
02-16-2005, 01:03 AM
Wanting to find out who might be interested in a top shelf exhaust system.

We are talking about 100% 304 stainless with with an option for either 2.25" or 2.5" duals mandrel bent (of course) with resonator and rear mufflers. The chamber sizes would be custom designed to eliminate unpleasant resonance while still being extremely free flowing. The tubing would be lightweight 18ga with the system being made in a minimum number of pieces for reasonable shipping yet easy installation with guaranteed fitment. No rattles or misbent pipes, everything would be made on CNC equipment for consistent quality.

Then on to headers. These would also be fully stainless longtube headers with heavy 3/8" flanges and merge - yes merge collectors on the bottom. All made to our specifications and available in 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" depending on application.

Anyone interested? If you have an SC worthy of such a system and are prepared to spend a decent amount of money, but less than you would first guess, let me know!

This system would not be made to fit an early style tank, so if haven't already done so, plan on investing $50 in a latestyle tank.

Comments?

Ira R.
02-16-2005, 01:08 AM
Wanting to find out who might be interested in a top shelf exhaust system.

We are talking about 100% 304 stainless with with an option for either 2.25" or 2.5" duals mandrel bent (of course) with resonator and rear mufflers. The chamber sizes would be custom designed to eliminate unpleasant resonance while still being extremely free flowing. The tubing would be lightweight 18ga with the system being made in a minimum number of pieces for reasonable shipping yet easy installation with guaranteed fitment. No rattles or misbent pipes, everything would be made on CNC equipment for consistent quality.

Then on to headers. These would also be fully stainless longtube headers with heavy 3/8" flanges and merge - yes merge collectors on the bottom. All made to our specifications and available in 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" depending on application.

Anyone interested? If you have an SC worthy of such a system and are prepared to spend a decent amount of money, but less than you would first guess, let me know!

This system would not be made to fit an early style tank, so if haven't already done so, plan on investing $50 in a latestyle tank.

Comments?

How does this address those of us living is states that require cats and have pretty rigid inspection standards?!? Do we just stick in a pair after the headers??

Ira

91supacoop
02-16-2005, 01:10 AM
Dave, as you know i am in the middle of an extensive buildup, and also as you know i already have my headers... the rest of the system on the other hand, i am interested in. how do you feel it would perform against the

"SCP "big dog"extreme flow cat back exaust system"

which is:
Basically the same as our 3" exhaust but this system has dual 2 " pipes into a single 3 ", back to dual 2 " outlets.
Without resonator for over 350HP applications.
Includes two high flow Turbo style mufflers.
Fits the 1992 and newer style gas tanks only.

and the 3" they refer to is this:
"Dual 2 " pipes into a single 3", back to dual 2 " outlets
Factory fit. Available for the '89 - '91 or '92 - 95 style gas tanks.

Includes extra heavy gauge aluminized piping, a high flow resonator, two Turbo style mufflers, all hangers and hardware.
Uses factory rubber hangers, etc. Our cat-back starts at the transmission cross member and goes all the way to the exhaust tips. A must upgrade for all supercharged V6 owners, from stock to 375 HP. Guaranteed to out-flow any other system on the market except the "Big Dog" shown below. This system has an excellent deep throaty tone that you will love!"
I also sent you an e-mail regarding some other info

I was also planning on running magnaflow high flow cats, with electronic exaust cutouts from www.quicktimeperformance.com before the cats. I guess i can just cut and paste all those componenets in though.

XR7 Dave
02-16-2005, 01:15 AM
How does this address those of us living is states that require cats and have pretty rigid inspection standards?!? Do we just stick in a pair after the headers??

Ira Cats would be highflow Catco/Magnaflow and would require either a short resonator or none at all. To compensate, larger mufflers could be used in the rear. I have run my existing longtubes in this manner with satisfactory results.

XR7 Dave
02-16-2005, 01:30 AM
Dave, as you know i am in the middle of an extensive buildup, and also as you know i already have my headers... the rest of the system on the other hand, i am interested in. how do you feel it would perform against the

"SCP "big dog"extreme flow cat back exaust system"

which is:
Basically the same as our 3" exhaust but this system has dual 2 " pipes into a single 3 ", back to dual 2 " outlets.
Without resonator for over 350HP applications.
Includes two high flow Turbo style mufflers.
Fits the 1992 and newer style gas tanks only.

and the 3" they refer to is this:
"Dual 2 " pipes into a single 3", back to dual 2 " outlets
Factory fit. Available for the '89 - '91 or '92 - 95 style gas tanks.

Includes extra heavy gauge aluminized piping, a high flow resonator, two Turbo style mufflers, all hangers and hardware.
Uses factory rubber hangers, etc. Our cat-back starts at the transmission cross member and goes all the way to the exhaust tips. A must upgrade for all supercharged V6 owners, from stock to 375 HP. Guaranteed to out-flow any other system on the market except the "Big Dog" shown below. This system has an excellent deep throaty tone that you will love!"
I also sent you an e-mail regarding some other info

I was also planning on running magnaflow high flow cats, with electronic exaust cutouts from www.quicktimeperformance.com before the cats. I guess i can just cut and paste all those componenets in though.

This system is not intended to compete with anything currently available. As noted above, it offers many things the SCP system does not. The SCP "Big Dog" system is aluminized and crush bent pipe with mufflers that have a limited lifespan. As far as I know it is an "assemble it yourself" collection of bends and mufflers.

In contrast, this is a fully custom designed system ready to bolt on and guaranteed to fit. No guesswork, no dissapointments. The mufflers are all custom made and completely stainless including the packing material. There is nothing to blow out or burn away, and if you so desire the 304 stainless can be polished to a mirror shine that will last a lifetime.

Flow potential? You pick, 2.25" pipes for a mild street SC that works under 6000rpm or 2.5" pipes for something beyond.... You can't compare flow numbers on exhaust systems. Look at the components, look at the bends, you decide. ;)

Just a side note, don't bother with the cutouts. They will slow the car down and screw up your tune, not to mention sound like heck. ;)

Kurt K
02-16-2005, 01:31 AM
Cats would be highflow Catco/Magnaflow and would require either a short resonator or none at all. To compensate, larger mufflers could be used in the rear. I have run my existing longtubes in this manner with satisfactory results.
Although I'm not currently in the market, I suspect I would buy when the system came available. I'm a little concerned about Cats fitting on the system with an AOD car, since the transmission is wider than the M5R2. I know I don't have much clearance with my mid length headers and Cats.

I thought about it while typing: I guess the Cats would be located behind the crossmember, but I'd still have to see it.

Kurt K
02-16-2005, 01:37 AM
The SCP "Big Dog" system is aluminized and crush bent pipe with mufflers that have a limited lifespan. As far as I know it is an "assemble it yourself" collection of bends and mufflers.

I'm not sure about the current systems, but the one I have on my car was partially assembled and not everything was compression bent. The 3.5" section is mandrel bent, although it is constructed of a few pieces welded together. And I can't say anything about the mufflers, because I bought my system without mufflers. I installed stainless Edlebrock mufflers which are holding up very well.

Regarless, I would still probably buy a system depending on the Cat arrangement.

XR7 Dave
02-16-2005, 01:37 AM
Although I'm not currently in the market, I suspect I would buy when the system came available. I'm a little concerned about Cats fitting on the system with an AOD car, since the transmission is wider than the M5R2. I know I don't have much clearance with my mid length headers and Cats.

I thought about it while typing: I guess the Cats would be located behind the crossmember, but I'd still have to see it.

Yes, we are aware that the auto's are wider but like you said, the cats would be behind the cross member. It does leave very little room for a resonator so we will be experimenting with larger mufflers at the back, similar to what George D is running.

David

XR7 Dave
02-16-2005, 01:44 AM
I'm not sure about the current systems, but the one I have on my car was partially assembled and not everything was compression bent. The 3.5" section is mandrel bent, although it is constructed of a few pieces welded together. And I can't say anything about the mufflers, because I bought my system without mufflers. I installed stainless Edlebrock mufflers which are holding up very well.

Regarless, I would still probably buy a system depending on the Cat arrangement.

Also, this thread is not meant to compare systems. I understand that a certain amount of that is going to be natural, but I am not contemplating this product with the intention of offering a product to compete with what is currently available.

The intention is to offer a no-compromise system that is head and shoulders above anything else ever offered for an SC. For me this started with the frustration of having to replace my Kooks headers after they have completely fallen apart on a car that never sees winter conditions. The one thing I hate worse than spending money is spending it twice!! You should not have to replace a quality exhaust system. Ever.

Payton
02-16-2005, 01:47 AM
Cats would be highflow Catco/Magnaflow and would require either a short resonator or none at all. To compensate, larger mufflers could be used in the rear. I have run my existing longtubes in this manner with satisfactory results.
Dave I'm thinking about running a single 2.5" pipe, no cats, no resonator, just a muffler. Wouldn't it be better? :confused: Want to know your opinion on that, caus' nobody here knows SC better then you.

Kurt K
02-16-2005, 01:54 AM
I agree that a quality exhasut system should never have to be replaced. The only reason I replaced my shorty stainless headers was because the dumb@$$ exhaust shop totally screwed up the passenger-side collector when they didn't line up the downtube correctly.

XR7 Dave
02-16-2005, 02:08 AM
Dave I'm thinking about running a single 2.5" pipe, no cats, no resonator, just a muffler. Wouldn't it be better? :confused: Want to know your opinion on that, caus' nobody here knows SC better then you.

Better is often a matter of opinion. To some people better might mean cheaper, or quieter, or louder, or more expensive. To answer your question, my opinion is that a single 2.5" pipe is what the stock system is already, and since the car already has 2 mufflers, basically what you are talking about is simply removing the cats, resonator and one muffler. My opinion is that would sound awful.

Regarding the proposed systems:

Dual 2.25" pipes is an easy upgrade from stock but will promote good velocity for quick throttle response and fuel economy. The stainless pipes retain heat inside where it belongs also helping to keep velocity up and engine bay (and interior) temps down.

Dual 2.5" pipes will flow enough air for 450-500rwhp which is going to be a reality soon with good blowers finding their way onto stout engines.

Both systems will be duals to save on design costs. The same design will be used for both systems.

Right now I'm looking for a customer who is prepared to pay for the best and expects not to be disappointed. The first system will cost the most, but it will pave the way for everyone else. If I have an individual interested in being that customer, we have a car here that is ready for mock-up so production could begin imediately. Please email me seperately if you are that person.

For everyone, comments are welcome and your input is valued. We want to make something that will work for the greatest number of people for the lowest price possible.

Thanks!

David

91supacoop
02-16-2005, 02:11 AM
count me in dave, although i don't think i'm "that guy" seeing as my car won't be ready for another year and 1/2

95pearlbird
02-16-2005, 07:02 AM
Anyone interested? If you have an SC worthy of such a system and are prepared to spend a decent amount of money, but less than you would first guess, let me know!

Hi Dave, another Dave here too..... I've recently aquirred a beautiful and stock 95 SC. I've been into performance (both 2 and 4-wheel) since the 70's.I have designed racing exhaust systems for Honda XR motorcycles.
I've done tons of research in the last 2 weeks on exhaust systems for SC's. Here are a few of the same old gremlins that you likely will run into......
The Cost: A full Stainless System? BIG Bucks. Then how is the customer going to weld it together? Most shops can do steel just fine, but stainless takes special equipment, doesn't it? A full-boat SCP System, including;
Headers, Tubes w/O2 sensors to the Hi-Flow Cats, Cat-Back "Big-Dog" setup to the rear, complete will set you back $1720. Thats in Steel. And off the car. It's still going to cost at least 3-400 to have it installed.You can add at least 1/2 again in Stainless.How many customers will shell out 2500 bucks for an exhaust system? You can buy the whole car for another grand.
The system you describe would not be street-legal, it would never pass smog w/o the cats.Most people drive their car on the street, thats the fun of it. SC's are sleepers. Fast Sleepers.And driven daily as registered vehicles.
I understand you may not want to compare to whats out there. But whats out there is what sells. And cost is one of the main priorities if you are going to sell a product.
Headers: No Doubt, Headers always give you the best performance. But they are a pain. They add a huge amount of cost, and are not easy to manufacture.They are a pain to put on the car, and they don't last.I've had several cars, and put headers on a lot of them, and it's always the same result. You are doing good if you get 10 years out of them, especially if you live anywhere near salted roads or the ocean.
They also crack, break and are louder than cast manifolds.And worse if you have an engine thats puts out a lot of heat like an SC.
On coatings: I have produced systems from stainless, nickel, titanium,(a real difficult project!) and steel, rolled cones and stamped. For cost and maintenance, you can't beat the "ceramic" jet coatings, thats why they are used so often.They are low maintenance, and last well, and keep the heat inside the tubing.This adds a bit to the cost, but pays off in durability.
The majority of owners of these types of cars are going to stick with the stock manifolds, unless a) they are racing it, or b) they are going over 325-350 HP. By that time $$-wise, the cost of this exhaust you want to make seems reasonable.
You can build a bitchin' full-boat stainless system thats a work of art. I don't doubt your abilities. But the question you are posing is: How many can afford to buy the same system, and are the production numbers worthwhile to offset the cost of setup, labor and materials?
With a full-on system as you propose, you'll sell maybe 20-40, mostly due to the high cost.
What people want is a system that goes from stock manfolds, (with O2 sensor on pass. side) to 2 1/2 inch hi-flow cats, to something very similar to the big dog, but with a resonator included. 2 1/2" in, 3" out the resonator and down the middle, then splitting to two 2 1/2' to the dual turbos. Ceramic coated steel clamp together sections, for around 500-600 bucks. The big dog is 750, the borla is 740, and neither includes the cats.
If you can make this work, you'd sell at least 50 to 100, maybe more.
Remember, that these cars are getting scarcer, and many are already modified.....
Just thought I'd offer a few suggestions and comments, from someone who has been there.......
I hope you can do it! If you can, I'll be one of your first 10 customers!
What do you think about this?

Kurt K
02-16-2005, 08:47 AM
A full-boat SCP System, including; Headers, Tubes w/O2 sensors to the Hi-Flow Cats, Cat-Back "Big-Dog" setup to the rear, complete will set you back $1720. Thats in Steel. And off the car. It's still going to cost at least 3-400 to have it installed.You can add at least 1/2 again in Stainless.How many customers will shell out 2500 bucks for an exhaust system? You can buy the whole car for another grand.
While I agree with the way you itemized your prices, there's something else you have to consider. What about the numerous people that are having to buy headers twice becasue the only thing currently available is steel? Sure you can get them coated, and I think most do, but if the base material was already stainless, I'm sure they would last longer. Plus, I don't believe there is a current offering of long-tube headers.

I originally was going to comment on several areas of you post, but it's not necessary. Yes, I think there will be a small market for this and yes, like many of the other limited run performance mods for this car, I will most likely be buying.

And sorry XR7Dave, financially I can't be the first. At least not this year.

XR7 Dave
02-16-2005, 10:15 AM
Dave,

Good points, and ones I've considered, believe me.

Let me answer each one, I think you'll be surprised.

1) Street legal.

There are a suprising number of SC's with cams that have over 230 deg cam timing. These cars will not pass emissions testing anyhow. Many SC owners have already addressed the emissions question in one way or another.

The basic system is designed for longtubes. This means that the system starts after the K member. If you do happen to run something else in front of this, it won't be part of this system, it will be stock manifolds with matching downtubes, or it will be Kooks headers again, with matching downtubes. Whether either of these systems are used, the customer already has to have some sort of downtubes. It is possible that we could do some downtubes seperately. I'll have to consider that.

But back to this system. It can have cats on it. I've run longtubes and cats on my car and passed emissions in the past. In fact my car ran cleaner with a mild cam and longtubes than it ever did stock and I've had it since new.

2) Headers. I am personally amazed how many people have headers from SCP already. While those headers have not been shown to offer any performance gain whatsoever, I'm willing to bet over 100 SC's are driving around with these headers on, with at least 1/3 of them leaking to one degree or another. These headers start at $500 for mild steel and go up depending on what you order etc. Personally I own a set of the Kooks longtubes with jet-hot coating which are about 6/7 years old. My car has never seen salt WHATSOEVER and they have literally come apart. Some people say that Kooks headers have come apart after as little as one year. I think that covers about the extremes of the durability of the Kooks jet-hot coated headers.

Now that doesn't even begin to address the performance issued with these headers. From improperly designed primaries to horrible collectors, these headers are really a slap in the face for Supercoupe enthusiasts. "Lets just offer you guys a header that is a ~~~~ and doesn't work". No thanks.

The headers that we would offer would be 100% stainless. What are the benefits of that? Well, I challenge you that stainless is not going to fall apart due to engine heat. Stainless will fail eventually on a turbocharged engine, but I simply do not buy that it is going to last one bit less that double what I got out of my mild steel headers. For most people that would be forever. What about the other properties of stainless? Well, lets start with it is very lightweight. Being made from 18ga stainless, the exhaust system will weigh less than a stock system and a LOT less than a 16ga mild steel system. I have an SCP "Big Dog" system sitting here. I'll get some numbers for you. :) There is another well known benefit of stainless. It keeps the heat inside the pipes where it belongs thereby pretty much eliminating the need for coatings. Some people may doubt this, but if you've ever welded stainless you know what I'm talking about. Often times you can weld stainless and then pick up the very part with your bare hands because the heat stayed in the weld and didn't travel very far.

Then there is the performance aspect. With properly tuned primaries and a properly designed merge collector, it will be possible to expect an actual performance gain from these headers. Finally, we will be able to end the argument that "stock ported manifolds" are as good as headers. If the dyno won't show a performance improvement, I'll eat my words.

3) This system, with the matching headers, will not require welding. In fact, it can be installed in your garage with basic tools, and header installs are not that tough actually on these cars. I've had mine in and out several times. Sure, welding will be beneficial, but it's not required. Because this system will come in 4 pieces (not counting the headers) it will not need to be welded to fit and retain the proper shape. This is the same as the Borla system in terms of installation (I've installed the borla also). One of the problems with the Borla system is that it is designed for a 93 or newer SC only and it retains the stock 3 cat system. To install it on a 92 SC or an earlier SC with a late model tank requires welding and you can't use the resonator at all, but have to use the stock resonator which is the biggest restriction on our exhausts in the first place! Of course there are ways around all obstacles, but I'm hoping to remove them, not add to them.

4) Welding. SS is fully weldable with a standard gas mig. While the system will be 100% TIG welded including the mufflers (no stamped or seam rolled stuff here), the do-it-yourselfer can weld the system with a small 110v Mig and standard Mig gas and stainless wire. I will also take this opportunity to state that I will not be building this system. It will be made by a major exhaust company which is well respected in the high performance community.


5) Units. Initial costs are not that high, and future production can be in as few as 3-4 units at a time. Undoubtedly they will need to fall into a "group purchase" format for maximum savings, but one-offs will be possible at a higher price. This company does have the ability to do one-off's at any time. The big investment will be time on my part in getting the design to them for modelling. Once that is done, future systems will be all CNC manufactured so quality control and accurate fitment will be of OE quality.


6) Cost. I saved the best for last. I had not priced the SCP system. :eek: $1720??? This system will not be priced so "top shelf" as I thought. Final pricing will not be known until the pipes have been bent and final fitment completed, but it shouldn't be much if any more than that. I guess I put "average" closer to $1000-1200 for headers and pipes. I know I don't have that much in mine.

I hope that addresses most of your questions Dave, basically I am well aware (I think) of the hurdles that need to be crossed. I feel that none of them are any more significant that the ones I've face on any other SC related product I've been involved with. Thanks for your input, we will definitely take it into account!

David

Ryan A Harris
02-16-2005, 01:18 PM
Well, after what I have gone threw in the last few months with exhust, I have send a ton of cash, and don't want to go that route agian. I'm looking forward to see this. I doubt I can the 1st up, but I'll send you a PM anyway.....

drummerzrok24
02-16-2005, 01:23 PM
I will be interested in buying this system, but will it be possible to buy it without the headers. Just from the downtubes back, I do not plan on racing my SC, it will be a daily driver and I cannot afford to drop in headers at the same time. Thanks

MIKE 38sc
02-16-2005, 03:27 PM
I'm glad to see this subject talked about. God knows I've tried to preach the virtues of properly tuned long tube headers for over 4 years here with no success. Part of that failure was my fault due to my inability to properly put into words whats in my brain. LOL!!!!! This is the first time I've seen an honest attempt to address the pitifull exhaust situation on the SC, its defenatly a step in the right direction. Should these systems end up being tuned properly you're gonna sell a mountain of them Dave and become a very rich man. Everybody will be throwing there exhaust manifolds ported or not into the river and buying this system.
I'm glad someone such as Dave has finally done some research into this area and now lends some credibility to the subject of properly tuned headers and exhaust systems.
I tip my hood to you Dave for you seem to have done what I never could could.
Good luck Dave and I hope it makes rich beyond your wildest dreams. :) :) :) :) :) :)

T-bird4vr
02-16-2005, 04:23 PM
When you say "merged" headers does that mean the two collectors come together for 1 pipe mid-section or the collectors are actually designed to merge the primarys together?

I am very interested, but would probably buy a set of heads first, unless it shows unreal numbers on the dyno, or a big drop in boost pressure (2-3psi or so)

bluebird
02-16-2005, 05:50 PM
This system is not intended to compete with anything currently available. As noted above, it offers many things the SCP system does not. The SCP "Big Dog" system is aluminized and crush bent pipe with mufflers that have a limited lifespan. As far as I know it is an "assemble it yourself" collection of bends and mufflers.

In contrast, this is a fully custom designed system ready to bolt on and guaranteed to fit. No guesswork, no dissapointments. The mufflers are all custom made and completely stainless including the packing material. There is nothing to blow out or burn away, and if you so desire the 304 stainless can be polished to a mirror shine that will last a lifetime.

Flow potential? You pick, 2.25" pipes for a mild street SC that works under 6000rpm or 2.5" pipes for something beyond.... You can't compare flow numbers on exhaust systems. Look at the components, look at the bends, you decide. ;)

Just a side note, don't bother with the cutouts. They will slow the car down and screw up your tune, not to mention sound like heck. ;)

I'm not ready now but I will be this spring/summer. I'm down.....btw whats a decent amount of money? It may be 1000.00 for a big pimp like you ;) but to some of us little people "decent" may be a bit less. :D

Toms-SC
02-16-2005, 07:48 PM
Man, I've still got my dynomax system sitting in the box.

Well, I can speak for all international orders. Make the stuff to be able to fit in the boxes correctly. Smaller, flatter = easier to ship. :)

XxSlowpokexX
02-16-2005, 08:45 PM
Just a few comments being you asked,

Ive had two sets of Kooks midlenghts. Both with around 5 years of service. Both ended up leaking due to the ball and socket collector. Both however were still in great shape.

As far as power. I dont feel anyone has done enough testing on a worked SC to say Kooks headers didnt give power...Ive yet to see that data however you should show it if you have it. Perhaps a side by side dyno run of both Kooks and your headers would give some insight.

Stainless is nice however it will still need to be coated due to heat

My SCP exhaust was fully mandrel bent. Both of mine were as a matter of fact.

A full exhaust system that fits out of the box will be hard to do. A claim of no rattles or rubbing...I dont know about.

Being the earlier cars and later cars motor sits higher you would basically need a different configuration for each. A simple gas tank change wont do it.

Cats or not the system will not be emmisions legal..Even if it passes emmisions.

Personally I dont see the exhaust itself being any better then one you can get done at a shop or bought already. Several companies already sell stainless true dual exhuasts for our cars. Header wise midlenghts the Kooks can be improved upon..The socket is just the weak point. The full lenghts maybe you can get a bit more out of em..But you will have to back that up for a sale. I cant see a substantial gain in a different desighn.

In the end it will be all about price. If you can match whats out there you will get sales from people in need of an exhaust.

I'd just watch what claims are being made without substantial proof. EVen in the world of supercharged v8 fords there is little difference between equal and non equallenght headers..And then there is the issue of larger tube or smaller tube primaries.

No header will be optimum for all combinations and RPM ranges. Especially when it comes to fulllenghts

XxSlowpokexX
02-16-2005, 08:46 PM
Excuse me..Price and quality

T-bird4vr
02-16-2005, 09:06 PM
I would really like the option of having an exhaust system already bent that I can put on (bolt or weld) without cats, since you can't take your car to an exhaust shop and have them even think about deleting the cats.

DriftingThunder
02-17-2005, 05:05 AM
Being that thus far Indiana does not care about emissions much I would be totally down for race exhaust. I'm especially interested in the headers, but I probably won't be able to invest in either until next winter.

Also, just a side note, I agree that you should consider designing down-pipes for those (not myself) who may want to stick with stock manifolds.

Brando B
02-21-2005, 01:17 AM
I'm geting ready to get a full exhaust set up on my 1990SC and this system looks promising. When will it be ready and how much will it cost?

Brando

victor malvar
02-21-2005, 06:10 AM
Hello Gents, I have had the pleasure of reading this entire post. First of all, I have been working on a exhaust system for about 6 mo. I was hopeful to have it ready in Feb.. I have a post I started in November, in the Florida chapter and had a good discussion with the Florida gang. I have had to cross all the issues in this lively discusion. I have considered SS and stock ported manifolds as a viable option the flow and fitment, hangers and other issues. I have had some ported, wrapped from a friend, I have the Flowmaster, the Manaflow, and the Dynomax to experiment with as far as sound and cost. I have crossed the Gas tank issues I have a system that has already been built. Which manifold will flow best the best there are two we like... Where to find all the gas tanks for the highest volume of SC's out there which would be the early years '89 '90' 91' I've complete solution's to this now. I can start delivering this exhuast Very soon. Other T.Bids gas tanks will work. We are ready to start taking orders for these very high quality performance exhaust system, as soon as I can find a dependable person to assist us. We are looking for some very knowledgeable person in Fla. To assist us in the everyday work. Its hard work at times. Any one with super coupe engine and overall mechanical experience very knowledge. I'm Interested in talking with you.
We need experience, In overall knowlege and mechanical aptitude with Super Coupes, plus some computer skills. Tuning experience would also be very useful. 352-732-5013
Victor.........

XR7 Dave
02-21-2005, 12:29 PM
I am not sure how to take the above post? :confused:

I am working on an exhaust design which will give people the opportunity to buy an exhaust system that meets their performance needs as well as quality expectations. I will go on record as stating that EPA regulations are the last of my concerns as this system will be offered as "off road only". In case anyone is wondering, there is NO SC performance part available today which carries ANY EPA certifications that I am aware of. This goes from a 5% SC pulley right down to forged pistons.

Victor, if you have an exhaust system already that's great news! SCP also has an exhaust system (or 2!). I am aware of this and I am not considering offering an exhaust system to compare with anything previously available. What would be the point?

This is not a scheme to make money off of SC'ers. It is a genuine attempt to offer a solution to what has been an ongoing problem for the SC as long as I've owned one (15 years now). It will take time to develop, which is why this post is in the "New products" section and not in the "Group buy" section. Once the prototypes have been built and the final product tested with consideration given to the helpful input here, a final product may be offered to the club.

In the mean time, if someone is prepared to put up $2500 for develoment of the patterns it will speed things a long. If not, I will endeaver to do it myself but it may take some time. Nothing is fast or easy for these cars. :)

XxSlowpokexX
02-21-2005, 04:22 PM
Dave,

I'd seriously consider a good shorty header so people may be able to run cats.

Being I cant give v6 dyno number with various headers I can give you this.

347 v8 stroker fuel injected Naturally aspirated

Unequal lenght 1 5/8 shorties 418 hp(4,900) 410 tq(5,400)
Equal lenght 1 5/8 shorties 419 hp(4,200) 406 tq(5,400)
1 5/8 long tubes 416 hp(4,100)404 tq(5,400)
1 3/4 long tubes 417 hp(4,100) 408 tq(5,400)

All with 2.5 inch pipes after...No mufflers.

This is a stout motor and you can see what rpms the numbers are at.

Just an example of what is best?

As far as a collectors the slip type are much better then the ball flange which has to be slightly restrictive.

And of course the headers to be thermally coated to reduce heat.

I'm really unsure what size or lenght header would be best.

Supercharged engines really dont need the scavenging effects of a proper;y built long tube...I just dont know here..

Just giving some input

XR7 Dave
02-21-2005, 04:45 PM
Thanks Damon, I read that comparison test as well and while peak numbers weren't that much different between any of the systems, the key that was missing from that is the mid range performance. With a properly designed longtube system mid range is much better and fuel economy increases will result as well. Driveability and throttle response is always better with a longtube. Longtubes are typically tuned for best scavenging between 3500-4500rpm, or around the torque peak of the engine. One of the drawbacks of a generic longtube header (or positives depending on perspective).

We dont' have to make headers and the headers will be a seperate part of the system regardless, but the key is that the system will be designed to work either way. Slip joints on 2.5" collectors will be used.

Converters can be used on longtubes. I've used them on mine and passed emissions testing marvelously. I like the sound of a resonator better than with the cats, but either way works. We may look at a removable resonator with replaceable cat pipe if the joints aren't too expensive. Most likely people with over 230 deg duration will not pass emissions testing, so people like yourself may need to find ways around that anyhow.

Thermal coatings will be optional. SS contains heat many times better than mild steel and surprisingly low heat actually comes off it.

xr7rocket
02-28-2005, 05:33 PM
I am interested but I need exhaust in a matter of weeks and i'm looking for downtubes/cats-back. I have no interest in the headers, I think ported manifolds will suit my needs.
Is there any other system besides scp currently available? I am not excited about the weight of their kit or the price (ignoring the cost of headers), but I guess when you're the only one with a kit on the market....It's just that with the scp system by the time I get my manifolds ported, and the scp downtubes with cats ($325?!) I'm looking at over $1200 and that's if I install it myself. Spending that kind money is OK but I'd much rather have thinner, lighter stainless.

ScrapSC
02-28-2005, 06:43 PM
I am in for it!!! I spent a chunk for the headers and looking at your post I would be Pi$$ed when they fall apart. I am certainly in for a SS setup. I hate to spend money twice!!!!!!!!!!! My father-in-outlaw has a SS setup on his Buick T-Type and it has been on there for 10 years. No problems.... :D

seawalkersee
03-06-2005, 01:44 PM
How is the system going to be available? I read this whole thing but I can not find out if it going to be available as full length, header back, and cat back. I am going with the Kooks for my LX and already have Kooks on the SC. The exhaust on the SC is crap. I have welded half license plates to the flowmaster where the crappy things busted through. As far as your header question... I read an article with a test of the shorties against Bassani 3/4 length. I think there was a fifteen ft/lb gain at like 3500 and it stayed above the shorties all the way throught the end of the test. The deal with the long tubes is, the more power you make at the engine, the greater gain you will have by using the longer headers. If this was not true then why would every racing sanction that allows them, have all of the cars running them?

Chris

SilverCasket
03-14-2005, 10:20 AM
Dave , looks like a good setup. Can't wait until prod is in full swing. I'm sure I'd turn in my kooks & SCP for a SS setup that has a functioning Long Tube.

Hope it works out. And hope it's not too costly for ya.
Anthony

DriftingThunder
03-27-2005, 05:31 AM
I'm still interested, I think that if nothing else a good set of long-tubes would be an awesome addition to the SC aftermarket.