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View Full Version : Special tools for M5R2 rebuild & Parts for rebuild



91BLOWNSC
02-27-2005, 06:50 PM
Just wondering for those who know or have rebuilt there M5R2 where I should go to locate new parts for my tranny as we are going to rebuild it. I did a few searches and found a place called southern gear. Is this a preferred place?
We opened mine up today and found that it had brass syncros for all the gears, and I presume from what I have read, that that didnt' come from the factory like that? The car only has about 86k on it so I am kind of baffled. 2nd gear was grinding like crazy, and it was difficult shifting into the others.

Also, will I need to buy all the specialty tools to complete this job, or is there somewhere I can get a kit to perform the rebuild. What have others on the board done?


Any other info that might be helpful will be appreciated!

Thanks, Mark.

AsScLoWn
02-27-2005, 07:46 PM
they are all brass,but the SC had a friction liner on the inside

if you like to hammer it into gear (power shift)you can take the best fiber lined syncro(usually 4rth) and place it where 2nd was and buy brass for the other, I heard the stock fibers were not made anymore, not sure

MikeKanterakis
02-27-2005, 11:55 PM
If you ask really nice, and catch a mechanic on a good day, he'll let you borrow or rent his tool. Thats how I got the front cover off the AOD I just rebuilt for my wife's car. FastSC92 has done a few of these 5-spd's, give him a PM and ask him how he built his own bearing puller.

It looks like the one in the shop manual. It's basically a long tube with a 3-jaw puller on one end, and a nut welded into the other. Then a threaded rod is screwed down into it, presses against the shaft, and out pops the bearing.

91BLOWNSC
02-28-2005, 11:09 AM
Thanks guys, so what about the place to get the parts and what not. Any ideas about that?

Micahdogg
02-28-2005, 05:34 PM
If you are looking for stock fiber lined brass synchros...they are unavailable. You can search online for a list of places throughout the nation that have old stock sitting on their shelves, but as of last September I could only find about 4 stock fiber synchros in the nation...to the tune of about $75 each!!!!!

Maybe Ed N. will chime in with the site that he hooked me up with cause i can't recall who it was.

The 1-2 and 3-4 gear sliders are also obsolete. I found one 1-2 slider in the nation and bought it for $174. There were a couple 3-4 sliders. Liberty Gear has used sliders that will work, but the ones I've seen have some wear. Maybe a machine shop could clean up the slight burring that developes on the end of the teeth.

Liberty and several other distributors have a steady supply of "solid" brass synchros which will work as a good substitute. They are tougher, but they do not provide as smooth of a shift as fiber.

I think the rule of thumb has become, if you have fiber lined synchros, go with a light weight fluid or ATF. If you have the really slick solid brass synchros go with a thicker fluild or MTL as they need the extra viscosity to slow them down for shifts. Otherwise you'll get a grind every so often when shifting fast.

Parts are becoming more scarce as each year passes. There is enough stuff around to keep the gear boxes going, but the good factory parts are going the way of the dodo.

Micah

91BLOWNSC
02-28-2005, 08:36 PM
If you are looking for stock fiber lined brass synchros...they are unavailable. You can search online for a list of places throughout the nation that have old stock sitting on their shelves, but as of last September I could only find about 4 stock fiber synchros in the nation...to the tune of about $75 each!!!!!

Maybe Ed N. will chime in with the site that he hooked me up with cause i can't recall who it was.

The 1-2 and 3-4 gear sliders are also obsolete. I found one 1-2 slider in the nation and bought it for $174. There were a couple 3-4 sliders. Liberty Gear has used sliders that will work, but the ones I've seen have some wear. Maybe a machine shop could clean up the slight burring that developes on the end of the teeth.

Liberty and several other distributors have a steady supply of "solid" brass synchros which will work as a good substitute. They are tougher, but they do not provide as smooth of a shift as fiber.

I think the rule of thumb has become, if you have fiber lined synchros, go with a light weight fluid or ATF. If you have the really slick solid brass synchros go with a thicker fluild or MTL as they need the extra viscosity to slow them down for shifts. Otherwise you'll get a grind every so often when shifting fast.

Parts are becoming more scarce as each year passes. There is enough stuff around to keep the gear boxes going, but the good factory parts are going the way of the dodo.

Micah


Luckily my sliders appear to be in great shape. So I shouldn't have to worry about those to much. My SC shifted hard as it his before I took out the transmission. It was stiff going into many of the gears, which I didn't care for. Is there anyway to tell if those are the original syncros in there? It almost makes me think there were brass ones in there.

What do you recommened doing to my transmission? Is there a specific kit I should buy? Or should I just order piece by piece the items that I need. Im going to give both liberty and southern gear a call tomorrow to see what they have to say and also what they recommened doing.

I also presume, Micah, that you have gone through your tranny yourself as I have seen posts about you having the brass syncros, how long did it take you to do? And btw, thanks for the reply!

seawalkersee
02-28-2005, 09:58 PM
Hey 91... I need to go through mine too. I have another 89 that is also a 5 spd. so I will probably pull it out and slip it in where mine in the 93 is now. If you could post what Liberty and SG tell you I would really appricicate it.

Chris

Jason Wild
02-28-2005, 10:17 PM
you may want to look at the front shim mine was not right this made it hard to shift in all gears for the most part.
one reason the shim was off is because there was about one tube of RTV used there. :rolleyes:
after cleaning it up and a new clutch it shifts like a dream.

AsScLoWn
03-01-2005, 02:12 AM
fix your shifter bushings, most of the material broken off will be jammed in the counter shaft? or output/input shaft oil passages, blow them out with air

MIKE 38sc
03-01-2005, 02:51 AM
Use the oil addative sold at Ford dealerships called Honey oil. Ford has been putting it in trannys that have shifting problems pertaining to brass blockers. Everybody I've talked to about it says there tranny's shift better than ever.
Worth a try, I think it sells for $8.

Micahdogg
03-01-2005, 11:27 AM
I've run several different fluids with the solid brass rings and none of them made much difference. And yes, I just went throught mine myself last fall.

The key to getting quick shifts that actually engage is to have NO BURRING on the sliders. A brand new slider and one that has 150K miles don't look any different from each other. You have to look very very closely at the pointy teeth on each side of the ring. Feel the teeth as they come to a point. They will usually curl up on the ends and get slightly "rounded" which is the burring I"m talking about. Even the slightest hint of burring or if the tips are not at a fine point can make a big big difference when speed shifting.

If the sliders still look good, then all you really have to do is change the 1-4 synchros only and you can shim the front bearing plate if you want. Mine had a little slop, but I didn't mess with it. Personally, I don't think just shimming the plate back into spec will make any difference in shifting, but it is a wear item that probably should be brought back into spec.

If you do a LOT of speed shifting or running down the 1/4 mile. You will probably like the fiber synchros better. They provide a "little" smoother shifter feel and engagment. But considering they are very very hard to find, I would seriously consider some solid brass synchros. If your sliders are fine, the solid brass synchros will still engage, but will most likely give you a little grind. Liberty will more than likely tell you solid brass is the way to go...yadda yadda yadda...which I think is mostly cause they sell solid and NOT fiber.

But the solid brass should last forever and I would run GM synchromesh or Redline MTL with em. They also say to replace the two crush nuts that sit on the main shaft and counter shaft. You don't have to, but they are still in stock at Ford.

It would be very hard to tell if you have fiber lined synchros as the INSIDE surface is the only part that has fiber on it. So you almost have to disassembled them from the shaft to see. Maybe if you look from the side you can see if there is any fiber lining in there, but would be hard to tell. I'm betting they are stock and fiber.

There is a good rebuild article floating around the net. Lots of pictures. I don't know the link though. (could I be any less helpful?)

Micah

MikeKanterakis
03-01-2005, 11:45 PM
Is this the one? http://www.fivaxis.com/m5r2rebuild/index.htm

92bird
03-02-2005, 02:43 AM
uhg...

I just got a low mileaged 95 M5R2.. I think when that goes I'll switch to an AOD..

I hate Ford..

Micahdogg
03-02-2005, 12:23 PM
Yeah, that's the article.

Ford has been the middle man on these parts anyway. It's all Mazda/Japanese stuff....so the idea has been that you can just bypass ford and still get parts from Mazda or another japanese source. The only issue will be cost. Even if parts are available, I ain't blowing $500 in parts each time I rebuild.

Micah

seawalkersee
03-02-2005, 02:49 PM
My tranny had about 77k on it when I started having problems gettin it into gear at a stop. I took some royal purple and filled the case with it. The best thing I ever did. It still is hard to get into first but I can shove it into second or third easily, in fact much easier then with the originall set up.

Chris

seawalkersee
03-11-2005, 10:10 PM
I was reading some of the other posts about the five speeds. What is the deal with the pickup rings? Do they contain the coveted fiber backing on the syncros?

Chris

Micahdogg
03-14-2005, 01:38 PM
The deal with the "pickup" rings is that they are available. Fibers are no longer offered by Ford. So essentially....there are no parts to fix your tranny if the blocker rings are bad. Fortunately, the F150/Bronco rings will fit and work. They are a solid design rather than fiber lined, but they will keep you running.

Some people like the solid ones because they really cannot wear out. The fiber lining in the stock rings will wear out. It's just like any other friction material (clutch, brake pads, etc...) they wear down. One the blockers wear they get sloppy on the shaft and contribute to HORRIBLE shifts.

With solid brass...they will never get sloppy because there is nothing to wear down...other than the brass material which should never wear as long as you keep fluid in the case.

However, the brass rings IMO don't shift as well when you are at high rpms and really trying to jam gears. Without the friction material those rings seem to stay in a spinning motion and give a grind when you force everything to mesh.

So the rings suck, but they last forever. :)

Micah

seawalkersee
03-14-2005, 06:35 PM
Well...Maybe SG will come out with some or something comperable. I really like the way it is supposed to shift but I do know the grind you speak of, and yes it sucks.

Chris