EGT guages....

sizemoremk

Registered User
Hey guys, I have read some EGT posts, and not too much info, seems that most preffere the wideband A/F...

I was wondering if someone could compare contrast them, and recommend a brand...

I was wanting to see how much I would have to spend to get one with possibly rigging them up to a six position switch, and tapping them in on each header tube...

thanks guys!
 
EGT or wideband will both give you accurate readings. EGT is cheaper and is always accurate, the only bad thing about different brands EGT's read out the temperatures slow.

Widebands are accurate too, but about $200-$300 more than EGT's.
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
Plus if your tapping into a lean or rich primamry with an EGT you can run into some problems..Big ones

Isn't the same true for a wide band? One cylinder might be lean and another rich, a wideband can't distinguish them.

If you want to put thermocouples in each primary it is going to get expensive. Thermocouples are just over $100 I believe and then another 100 for a guage, and then you would want some electronic equipment to check which thermocouple is reading the highest and output those values. Do a search, I bet 90% of burnt pistons is #4 (closest to driver), i am not sure if my numbering is correct.

A wideband will allow you to do some tuning, and a decent kit will have an input for an egt. Egt's won't tell you the fuel ratio but they will tell you if you are safe or not, they react fast enough for that if installed correctly. If you put the thermocouple 2' away from the head then yes the readings would be very slow.

If you want to be safe, then buy a good wideband kit, with 2 wideband 02 sensors, and 6 thermocouples. That will probably be more money in monitering your motor then your motor is worth.

There are some cheap wideband kits, I have been looking at this one http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/Products.htm
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
Plus if your tapping into a lean or rich primamry with an EGT you can run into some problems..Big ones
You can't run into problems with an EGT that is not built into your computer system. You are supposed to put the EGT sensor the closest you can get it to the exhaust port. The further you get away from the port the more inaccurate the reading will be. In our case, you would put the EGT on one of the back cylinders, preferably cylinders 3 or 6.
 
Isn't the same true for a wide band? One cylinder might be lean and another rich, a wideband can't distinguish them.

Your right. But to tune a car based on only one cylinder in my opinion is crazy. The wideband is at least averaging out a side while a thermocoupler only one cylinder. Now if you had 6 thermocouplers....It still wouldnt help you unless you could tune for each cylinder. In my opinion tuning based on one cylinder is extremely dangerous. Unless your going with a VERY safe tune..In that case why bother at all?

You can't run into problems with an EGT that is not built into your computer system.

Has to do with what I wrote above and has nothing to do with the computer at all.

I personally would never tune nor reccomend to tune a car using one thermocoupler in one cylinder
 
I personally would never tune nor reccomend to tune a car using one thermocoupler in one cylinder[/QUOTE]
I see what you mean here, but if you think about it the majority of the air is brought into the back cylinders, therefore making the potential for leanness is higher than the front cylinders. If you put the EGT in the back cylinder you can manipulate whats happening in the front cylinders. If the temperature of the back cylinders are around 1300 on the EGT reading then the fronts would be about 1250 or 1200 which would be safe.

Plus, if you get a wideband you only get one Oxygen sensor, so it would only be reading one bank side and they use that to manipulate the other side like the EGT would be used to manipulate the estimate temperature for the 5 other cylinders.
 
As far as I know no one tunes just from an EGT. Rather, preferrably an EGT backs up what you already know from tuning with a wideband. An EGT cannot tell you if you are lean or rich, only if the exhaust is getting hot enough to melt pistons (or in my case so darn cold it barely fires, lol don't ask).

I would not bother with one thermocouple in each cylinder, and ideally your WB should be in the y-pipe taking an average of both banks but really, if you have variances cylinder to cylinder you just can't tune that out anyhow. You have a mechanical issue that needs to be addressed. There is only so much you can do so you have to take some risks and "shoot from the hip" a little sometimes. This is another reason why I feel it is important to change plugs often and not run super expensive plugs. You need to know what is going on in each cylinder before it is too late which means changing plugs often.

The statement about which cylinder runs leanest/hottest is a prime example of why I have made comments about the dangers of porting/cutting/enlarging your intake manifold. Very few people actually understand what is going on in that intake.

The truth is that the rear cylinders *tend* to run rich. You see what happens is the air fires straight into the manifold, slams the front wall, then builds pressure throughout the rest of it and finally feeds the back cylinders. Ford was having trouble with this and the back plug #6 was actually fouling from not getting any air which is why they introduced the "V" that some people remove. It was put there to prevent the air from reversing backward and forcing it to redirect to the closest cylinders and give them some air. Removing the V and enlarging the manifold greatly exagerates those problems unless work has been done to ensure even distribution. But that is a whole "nuther" subject.

Regarding the original question, the WB02 is used for tuning. It is not run in the car 24/7. An EGT is there all the time. You get used to what you should be seeing and are notified right away if things have shifted dangerously one way or another. Very few people actually kill their engines from a sudden spike in AF. Most kill their engines from repeated and long term lean conditions of which they were totally unaware. An EGT can help prevent that. Unfortunately EGT values vary from application to application so you can't get an exact number which is safe or not. It is a tool you will have to use and learn to interpret or else it is just another "neat" gauge thingie.
 
I guess I was thinking that 6 EGT sensors would be cheaper than an A/F meter.... Now I guess I may need both :(

I'm a little more worried about keeping track of A/F and EGT too, as heat will be higher due to no FMIC...

I have been wanting that wireless data logging A/f setup like fastSC92 uses. That will definately cut into the slight possibiliy of the steg heads though...

I may have to be stuck with home/semi professional porting some heads, and maybe waiting a year or three and swapping to the stegs in the future... seems like more and more things keep popping up... $$$ will be tight!



XR7 Dave said:
The statement about which cylinder runs leanest/hottest is a prime example of why I have made comments about the dangers of porting/cutting/enlarging your intake manifold. Very few people actually understand what is going on in that intake.

Dave vehemitly crusades against the intake modding, but I'm thinking I just have to try it!!!! I think he is actually encouraging me :p

He's convinced me to keep the triangle, I think I may cut the roof off, and machine the triangle, buld the triangle back up, raise the roof, and rig up a shop vac to return plenum flow bench to see how it flows :D The hard part will be measuring the flow at the ports... How do I do this :confused:

Why am I compelled to mess with this intake????
 
Mike, forget about all the gauges and put on the steig heads and then get the sucker dyno tuned. Do it.
 
I know of no one close that can dyno tune a SC :confused:

I bought the EEC tunner so I could tune it myself... with the help of you good folks of course!

Also, what Dave says makes a whole lot of sense! I would hate to be driving around for months not knowing I was leaning it out everytime I got on it.

I gotta have some kind of indicator!!!

XR7 Dave said:
Regarding the original question, the WB02 is used for tuning. It is not run in the car 24/7. An EGT is there all the time. You get used to what you should be seeing and are notified right away if things have shifted dangerously one way or another. Very few people actually kill their engines from a sudden spike in AF. Most kill their engines from repeated and long term lean conditions of which they were totally unaware. An EGT can help prevent that. Unfortunately EGT values vary from application to application so you can't get an exact number which is safe or not. It is a tool you will have to use and learn to interpret or else it is just another "neat" gauge thingie.
 
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