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fastsc92
03-14-2005, 07:09 PM
I'm planning on building a front mount set-up and would possibly make two or more units, one for myself and sell the others off. I'm not quite sure if anyone is interested. I'm planning on the unit being placed in front of the A/C condenser. The top tube would enter were the stock IC sits now, into the front of the car. The outlet tube would return from the same location, mating up to the plenum.

Tube design would be 11 or 14 gauge 2.5" aluminum tubing. Tubes would be fully polished by hand. The tubing would be similar to where MP routes their tubes now, but both tubes would enter and exit the front of the car where the stock IC is now. The radiator would not be moved. A shorter condenser or removal would be needed however.

As for the price, I can't give a definate answer. I need to size the IC core to fit, and price out all the mandrel bent tubing. The tubes would not be in one peice, but peiced together, welded, the welds would be ground down, and then the tubes polished. I'm sure it wouldn't be flawless like a one peice design, but most would never notice.

IC core should be large like the MP unit, or the largest i can fit behind the bumper.

I estimate the entire unit would cost roughly $800-900 after all the work is being done.

I haven't even started on this project yet, but soon i will. Once i make my unit, I prob. wont be making anymore, just due to time, so not sure if anyone wants to get in on this project before i'm completed.

I'm sure there will be tons of questions. I'm 100% positive that I will be making my own kit, just not sure if anyone else is interested, if thats the case, I'll order two of everything.

TBone95
03-14-2005, 09:30 PM
Id be interested, but Id have to see some type of results before putting any money down.

Is this like the type of IC you have in mind?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7961666145&category=33742

I like those ones because of the extreme flow numbers that can be achieved with many short tubes opposed to a few long ones. And you could have the in inlet and outlet come out the same side.

http://www.bellintercoolers.com is another good site Ive looked at for ICs. Lists all the flow rates for their different sizes, good reference for researching sizes.

-Travis

fastsc92
03-14-2005, 09:58 PM
Not sure of what type of IC i'd use....I had this style in mind, given if it fits...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7960551104&category=33632

MIKE 38sc
03-16-2005, 04:32 AM
Good luck fastsc92. I offered the same IC kit 1 1/2 years ago with no takers.
There's just not enough hard core hot rodders like you and I here at the SCCOA.

fastsc92
03-16-2005, 11:44 AM
Maybe the case. I just figured if i was going to make my own, might as well make two at the same time. I cant see spending nearly $1500 for the MP kit, and thats my only focus.

daivd z
03-16-2005, 12:01 PM
here is a pic of my set-up its pretty much what you are talkin about makin your like except i havent made a return pipe yet. The inlet pipe is 3 inch and im going to make a 2.5 return pipe. it is a Bell intercooler that is good for 400 RWHP they told me. it has 3 inch endtanks. My set up so far is around 650 and should be another 80 or so for more connectors and pipe for the return pipe. Maybe that will help pricing but my pipe are mild steel.

seawalkersee
03-23-2005, 11:26 PM
I know we discussed this before but what were the dimentions of the MP kit. This one shows 24"x3"x12". I think I would like to make my own as well but it will be after my 97 is back up and running.

Chris

fastsc92
03-24-2005, 12:42 AM
I have chosen a different core size for myself. The MP unit is on their website with sizes. Kit will begin contruction easter weekend with measurements and tubing bends. The following week i will order all parts and begin building the week after. Still considering making at least two kits if not 3, and selling the others. Only going to have everything apart once and its a one time shot to make a few units.

Darkside
03-24-2005, 02:13 AM
Not sure of what type of IC i'd use....I had this style in mind, given if it fits...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7960551104&category=33632
With the core size being 24 inches wide, I don't believe this intercooler will fit. It should come out to about 31 inches from end to end once you figure in the end tanks. You could probably make it fit if you moved the radiator out and put the intercooler where the radiator is.

fastsc92
03-24-2005, 11:52 AM
The radiator will not be moved and I have a perfect place for everything and I'm 90% sure it will fit. I will not be using that core since the overall measurement is almost 31". It will fit in there, in between the frame rails, but doesn't leave enough room for tube placement where i want to run things. Have no fear though, I've picked a slightly smaller core and cardboard mock-up with be this week.

seawalkersee
04-03-2005, 02:35 AM
How is it coming?

Chris

fastsc92
04-03-2005, 12:02 PM
Took everything off this weekend....and struggled so long getting the collar nut off the top...still to not get anywhere. Anyways, been planning on the front mount core, and the core will fit, but my tube routing will not. I stummbled across another core that is 11x12 with an overall of 19". This will give me about 5 inches more to play with, so i should be good. I was planning on dual 3" tubes, however...i dont think it'll fit like the MP set-up. I used two pieces of 3" exhaust in the tightest spot i could and its rubbing the hood slightly. I think i might use 3" on the top tube, and 2.5" on the bottom tube and that will give me 1/2" more room.

I did get a new dipstick for the PS pump, and cut the bracket off for the stock IC tube. Now its a matter of getting my core to fit, but I think i found the one i need...as pictured here...http://i13.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/bc/07/36_1_b.JPG

I'll keep the updates coming, once i get the core i know will fit things should go real smooth.

redtbirdsc
04-09-2005, 04:16 AM
Originally Posted by fastsc92
Not sure of what type of IC i'd use....I had this style in mind, given if it fits...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&category=33632

Thats the same size as the one I just got and it will fit if you move the battery to the trunk and move some other things around a little(at least it better fit lol)

fastsc92
04-09-2005, 10:31 AM
I'm still doing my research. I've got contacts in a lot of places now that are searching for cores, and I should have a lot more details on Monday ( so they tell me....). If nothing comes up I plan on using a 17.5x11.75.3 core, and make a new endtank for the pass. side. The new outlet will have a transitioned bend and dirrect the tube back over to the drivers side of the car. Now i plan on using a 3in tube on top, and a 2.5" on the bottom. It should fit, but I'm hope from school for the weekend to take some more measurments and scratch my head a little more as well. Its tough being at school, and now finals are in two weeks, but I'll be home the first few days of May to work on this full time. I plan on making one kit for myself, posting pics and results and make any others to order if anyone else is interested once i'm finished.

fastsc92
04-11-2005, 01:37 PM
Here's an update.

Just purchased all of my tubing and bends today. Still waiting on couplers and clamps, and the core is in the process of being purchased. New endtanks will be designed. All parts will be at my door the end of next week (21th-22th). Construction will begin April29th, and into May. Updated pics will be soon once i start welding and such......

CMac89
04-11-2005, 02:09 PM
Here's an update.

Just purchased all of my tubing and bends today....total was nearly $180 for parts. Still waiting on couplers and clamps, and the core is in the process of being purchased. New endtanks will be designed. All parts will be at my door the end of next week (21th-22th). Construction will begin April29th, and into May. Updated pics will be soon once i start welding and such......
Really looking forward to seeing the outcome of it. It should go pretty smooth and straight forward. Should get it done within a couple of days.

What IC did you go with?

fastsc92
04-11-2005, 03:00 PM
the IC i am planning on using is a greddy IC 18x12x3 from an integra kit. This purchase is in the works.......

seawalkersee
04-11-2005, 05:16 PM
Why not just take two of your intercollers and weld them together and change the outlets to the side?

Chris

fastsc92
04-11-2005, 06:23 PM
Why not just take two of your intercollers and weld them together and change the outlets to the side?

Chris
I have no idea what you're talking about.........

Toms-SC
04-11-2005, 10:39 PM
Basing this off your past handiwork on the SB and Headers, you can count me in. You appear to do very good work.

fastsc92
04-11-2005, 11:01 PM
Its going to fit like a glove, be fully polished...it'll be slick,

Somethings to consider however...

removal of a/c or shorter condeser
have some pipe welded to the stock return plenum (2" peice of pipe)

Everything else should fit fine...i will be welding brackets to my crash bumper to mount the IC to, but bolting it in the same manner shouldn't be a problem.

Like I said, once i start construction, i'll get pics of building and the final product. Once finished I'll offer maybe two kits up for sale. Updates in a few weeks guys...any questions feel free to ask.

seawalkersee
04-11-2005, 11:37 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about.........
Take two of the intercoolers that you already have in your car, (meaning purchase one) weld them together giving you, 16x16x3, and put different ends on them so you can have your outlets pointing towards the sides. Understand? I also have a question about your placement of your inlet/outlet. How much of a difference does it make to go from top to bottom or bottom to top? Have you any research on this?

Chris

fastsc92
04-11-2005, 11:47 PM
you can weld two stock units together...but the stockers flow about 230 cfm...and a new core would flow about 750 with a .5psi pressure drop vs the stock 3.5psi.....

not sure on the top-bottom flow cores. But i believe you should flow from top to bottom, only makes sense to me. I'm going with a horizontal flow however.

seawalkersee
04-12-2005, 01:23 AM
[QUOTE=fastsc92]you can weld two stock units together...but the stockers flow about 230 cfm...and a new core would flow about 750 with a .5psi pressure drop vs the stock 3.5psi.....

Well, that answers that question. Are you going to run the return in the same location? I am looking in to doing somewhat of the same thing but I think i will raise up the return where the supply goes and run the supply on the other side. That should keep it a tad farther from the heat.

Chris

fastsc92
04-12-2005, 11:07 AM
inlet and outlets will be on the same side, double stacked like the MP unit. It should look clean, and wont require the use of a raised hood or any other modifications. (Except a/c removal, return plenum welding, and cutting off the stock IC bracket, oh and a new PS dipstick)

seawalkersee
04-13-2005, 06:21 AM
Is the factory inlet/outlet the problem with the pressure drop? Not trying to be a pain, Im just car poor and want a cheep way out.

Chris

fastsc92
04-13-2005, 09:06 AM
Most of the reason is that the core is just ineffiecient. It does do it's job to a point, but there is just not enough air flowing over it, and not enough surface area. If you were to have two cores welded by a shop, it would cost about the same as a much larger, better core, and the results wouldn't be as good. Most of the problem is with the stock tube routing as it passes about 2 inches from the manifold.

New pipe routing solves that problem, and a lot of the price of a front mount is due to tubing materials, welding, and overall contruction. Builting a kit, with quailty, styling looks and functionality takes time, and its the research, time, and top notch materials and supplies that you end up paying for.

seawalkersee
04-13-2005, 01:13 PM
Im not as concerned with the piping at this point. I am going to probably run both pipes up high OR cover the lower with that aluminum/kevlar wrap they sell for the intake tube. I think you are probably right on target with what you are doing so I will probably follow your lead through your investigations :D ...Thanks for that...

Chris

fastsc92
04-13-2005, 01:41 PM
Wrapping the lower tube really doesn't solve anything. If you've ever taken that tube out you can see that its pinched way down and the area is cut nearly in half.

A lot of people think they can just throw a kit together and call it a day, however thats not the case. There is so much research involved in a project like this. Just finding the right, high quality parts has been a chore for me, not to mention a design and fabrication aspect of everything. But there will always be the person who does the bulk of the work, uses new innovative ideas, and has their work copied......... :rolleyes:

CMac89
04-13-2005, 02:15 PM
There's not really many other IC ideas that can be newly innovated. There's either the MP way, front exit top with a/c removal, or enter and exit the same side. Unless you are talking about materials to use which really is much of an issue. Most aluminum tubing, unless you find a deal and you did, is expensive and the only necessary reason I can see in using it is weight. Mild steel is good enough because you can buy it off of Jegs in any U-bend even in SS.

People think of alot of ideas, but never get to do them because of lack of tools to make it. I have really nice ideas about making a return plenum and intake manifold, but I haven't made one because I dont have equipment to do it. Just because somebody made the idea happen doesn't mean that somebody hasn't thought of that same idea before they have.

I'm just sayin........ :)

David Neibert
04-13-2005, 02:33 PM
No need to even try, because we already have the Micahdogg #1 design :D




http://members.tccoa.com/micahdogg/fmic.jpg



David

seawalkersee
04-13-2005, 02:34 PM
Oh the harshness. Fast, there was a post a year or so ago with both of the tubes mounted up top. He had them chromed and it looked SWEET but I cant remember who. I think it was mike38 but Im not sure. His was the setup that I would mimic but I dont think he had a stock hood. I could be wrong and this is what you are talking about with you doing the reasearch. Do a search on chrome ic tubes and see if you can find it. I hope it will help you on your way.

Chris

Dave posted that while I was posting mine. That is the design I was talking about for the cross over to keep the heat off of the lower tube. :D

fastsc92
04-13-2005, 06:29 PM
I don't expect to make the #1 best design out there, mainly because I would like to keep a stock hood, and that awesome set-up that dave posted would require a raised hood, and movement of the radiator.

Main point is that I think my set-up will be clean, and show good performance. I dont see stacking the tubes to be any performance loss.

The main reason why I wanted to use aluminum tubes was to be able to polish them for the Bling factor :cool:. Yes i agree steel tubes are easier to find, but my supplier has various sizes and bends which make fitting tubes a lot easier and cleaner.

I'm not out to bash anyone and I appologize if my thread was taken in the wrong manner. I love designing new things and thats where i hope my career will take me once i graduate. I think its fun, creative, and I never mind helping out other SC owners by possibly making kits.

CMac89
04-13-2005, 06:42 PM
I wasn't trying to be harsh either.... I think your setup will turnout very nice just like your rerouting of the mac mustang headers to fit your car. I was really impressed with that by the way.

This IC setup you're making is just one step away from the 11's. :) :D

I think you should make this a competition to see who makes the best #1 Get 'er Done FMIC setup. That would be a sweet deal. :)

fastsc92
04-13-2005, 08:44 PM
Oh by no question is Micahdogg's set-up top choice. It has simple configuration, and a straight path for air to flow. If i had removed my a/c and had a cowl hood i would def. go in that dirrection.

I do hope my new exhaust and front mount sit me somewhere in the 11's, even if its an 11.999.... Anyways, his is a great set-up. Mine will be very comparable to the MP looks, and able to keep the stock hood, stock rad, and a/c. All i have to do now is get my arse in gear and "Get 'er Done...."

Toms-SC
04-23-2005, 08:16 PM
Is this the core you are currently using?

http://i3.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/d1/6b/57_1_b.JPG

fastsc92
04-24-2005, 01:18 AM
I viewed that, but its not the core that I'm using. Everything has been ordered, I received all my clamps, the couplers are here, pipe is in transit as well as the intercooler. I'm waiting until I'm out of college which will be in about 10 days, before I start major constuction. Parts took longer to find and I think i might have to order one or two more things. However, no big rush now since i wont be home for 10 days.

Once I start, the first thing I'll do is cut the endtank off the passenger side, and start constuction of a new one. Once the core is finished and mounted, I'll start making all my tubing.

895speed
04-24-2005, 04:17 AM
fastsc92, so basiclly give or take, what would be the price for your custom FMIC, cuz if it's turns out good i might be intrested in that.

fastsc92
04-24-2005, 11:26 AM
No set pricing just yet, but expect a 90% bolt in kit, with polished aluminum tubing, t-bolt clamps, 4 ply silicone connectors, and a bar and plate intercooler...somewhere around $900. Like i said, this price is just a number right now, I still need to add up all my materials and price the work out. I expect a lot of time making a new endtank and welding, as well as the time it takes to polish everything, ect. ect.

David Neibert
04-24-2005, 11:51 AM
I don't expect to make the #1 best design out there, mainly because I would like to keep a stock hood, and that awesome set-up that dave posted would require a raised hood, and movement of the radiator.

I hope you know I was just kidding when I posted the picture of Micah's FMIC. After seeing what you have done with the exhaust and other parts of your car, I have no doubt that your FMIC will be top notch.

David

fastsc92
04-24-2005, 06:08 PM
I dont mind people's opinions, and his set-up is very nice. Don't worry about it Dave...you're one of the few people on this board whose opinions and responces I respect.

fastsc92
04-26-2005, 11:01 AM
Well it turns out that somehow fed-ex lost my package that contained my couplers. They have a tracking number saying that it was delivered 5 days ago, but I have not received it. I'm thinking the guy dropped it off at the wrong location. They aren't major parts, but its still a pain in my arse. They are doing an investigation on it, and I sure hope the claim goes through, otherwise I'll be out some dough. It seems like I always have a problem with shipping. Either things get damaged, lost, or come very late....oh well. I'll keep my fingers crossed at this point. :(

seawalkersee
04-27-2005, 12:40 PM
I was looking at my spare intercooler thismorning. You mentioned that the factory ones have a 3.5 psi drop. Is it possible that the problem with the stock intercooler inlet and outlet are the choke point for that? It seems to have a very short area to transition from boost to the fins. I think if it were a side mount it would have less of a drop.

Chris

fastsc92
04-27-2005, 01:23 PM
technically...it is a side mount. A lot of the problem is with the endtanks of the core, but some of it is the core itself. Intercoolers have just become a lot more effiecient over the years. Sure, you could modify the stocker, or make something out of it, but in my opinion its a lot of work, and I like the clean look of something new, and it'll equal about the same prices and time.

As a side note, FedEx figured out their mistake and I got my couplers. The t-bolt clamps I originally ordered were incorrect and do not work with the couplers ( different manufacters...). New clamps and one more coupler are on the way as we speak. Finals for college are done next Wed (6th), so i should have everything then and start playing around with things ASAP.

seawalkersee
04-27-2005, 01:48 PM
Where did you get your information from about the intercoolers? I am not questioning you but I would like to know so I dont look so stoopid when I try to have my IC built. I have this strange feeling you are correct about the price difference though. Are you studying like thermals or what cause you seem to have fairly good knowledge of your stuff. I think the only time I disagreed with you was on your exhaust where you went PIr2 for figuring out flow instead of using fluid dynamics.

Chris

fastsc92
04-27-2005, 04:30 PM
The intercooler facts are posted on the MP site and the SCCOA main site under literature. Someone else did this study, not me. Just from personal experience, If you have a shop construct something for you and do the welding, you're going to be looking at their normal shop labor rates, as well as materials, which can add up very quickly. I'm in school right now studying Mechanical Engineering, but most of the information is learned from just being involved in these cars and learning from the well respected members on and off this board.

As for the whole exhaust thing, its not flow, but i based my decision on area. I'm sure fluid dynamics would prove a lot more, but my choice was simple. I wanted to have the whole system keep the same area of exhaust pipe. so the system consists of two 2.5" pipes, but then when it goes to single, I made it 3.5" in order to keep the area of pipe the same. I am really happy with my decision and I've received a lot of hell over it, but its seems that no one really has any good reasons to shoot down what I have done. A forced induction car doesn't function the same way exhaust wise. Exhaust gas scavenging isn't as much as an issue since the volume inside the cylinders is constantly being replaced with air that is forced in/out, rather than being sucked out. I'm sure there is a huge technical study on this, but the seat of the pants feels that it did nothing but good things, and I'll have plenty of room to expand. Whats the point of building multiple exhausts based on your HP at the current moment. If that was the case, I would have had at least 4 systems by now. I built mine so i have room to grow, and nothing I did should be hurting me for power...and if anything, free up some ponies where others have a restriction. Some of the fastest guys in the country are running this large of an exhaust and it doesn't seem to be hurting them one bit.

A lot of the things I do/say/feel are personal preferences. I am by no means perfect, and I dont currently have the knowledge to back everything up. I love thinking of new ideas and putting them to action by making a lot of custom stuff, and try to make something that will impress myself before it impresses anyone else. I try to put a lot of detail and quality into things, and its just the way i've always been. I like seeing a well fuctioning, efficient item. But anyways, the exhaust issue is a thing of the past, this thread is based on the purpose of the IC kit, which I'll try to keep everyone updated as soon as I start, and post some pics afterwards.

seawalkersee
04-28-2005, 01:50 AM
Woa...I think I must have rubbed you wrong with that post. I was simply stating a difference of thought not based on what others have done. As a matter of fact I think your system is perfect for anything that is close to the 300 mark and still building. I also believe that your intercooler set up is going to be great. I am just wondering how to make a similar system for myself for a tad less. I am poor now cause I have three cars that I am always building.

Chris

fastsc92
04-28-2005, 10:25 AM
I dont get angry in my posts, so don't take it in a negative way. I'm just stating my opinion in the matter. I'm aware that people are going to disagree with each other, and I take all opinions with an open mind. Don't worry, I'm not pissed or anything, and I'm sorry if it came off like that.

A side note once again, the brown santa came yesterday and I received my intercooler, straight aluminum pipe, and a giant box of my aluminum bends. A fairly large delivery, and I was like a kid at Christmas... :p I have one more part that needs to be orderd, but I'm going to wait on this item until the intercooler is done so I can order the correct size. Oh, does anyone want 10 t-bolt clamps, the ones i have I cant use. I have a bunch of 2.5" and 3" clamps. They are brand new, I'd let em go for like 30 shipped.

fastsc92
05-07-2005, 01:14 PM
As an update, worked on the project for the first time on friday(6th). I think I got a lot of progress done, but i still have a few days ahead of me.

I started off designing a new endtank for the passenger side. I cut all the peices and welded it up. I made it larger than the inlet side to help a little with flow and my outlet design. Once everything was welded up, I cut the original tank off the IC, and fitted the new one. I also cut some of the spout off the inlet side because I needed some clearance. I then started to fit all the tubing. I cut a few peices and marked them for final welding, and it appears that everything will fit like a glove.

Today I'm in the process of mounting the core, and making sure everything fits. Space is very very tight both left and right, as well as up and down. I'm going to try my best to make sure everything goes smoothly.

If all goes well I'll try to get some pics up tonight or tommorrow.

fastsc92
05-11-2005, 12:44 AM
Update

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?p=409133#post409133

turbospeed
05-13-2005, 12:30 PM
whne youre done and come up with a price throw me a PM i migth be interested.

fastsc92
05-13-2005, 12:43 PM
will do. I need to figure my time involved in this. I also need to talk to my father about this, as he has helped me with the welding, using his machine at work which is much nicer than the one in my garage.

fastsc92
05-13-2005, 12:51 PM
will do. I need to figure my time involved in this. I also need to talk to my father about this, as he has helped me with the welding, using his machine at work which is much nicer than the one in my garage.

hellakornhaus
07-21-2005, 01:01 PM
I do not know how I missed this... but I am in for a SMIC (Side Mount InterCooler)!!!!

That is, unless this feel through the cracks!

-Kornhaus

fastsc92
07-21-2005, 06:04 PM
the item made was a front mount, not a side mount, pics are posted in the link in he above posts.