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View Full Version : new motor in, car starts but....



bigcletus94
07-09-2002, 02:47 AM
...runs like you know what. I pretty much have to keep giving it gas to keep it running and it sounds horible. Exhaust manifolds get HOT almost immediately as well as the IC tubes. Ran it for about 4 minutes untill the check engine light came on then shut it off and called it a night. Didn't get a chance to check it with my code checker. I need to recheck my spark-plug wires to make sure they are going to the right cylinders too, but I was pretty carefull at connecting them. Any thing else I could check? Motor is new rebuilt from Ford, almost all the engine sensors are new as well. Any input is appreciated.

BlownSuperBird
07-09-2002, 04:15 AM
Did you check the Intercooler tubes to make sure you dont have a leak....then check you fuel pressure at the rail. Then, ask fer more help cause I'm too tired to go any further sorry....my head has hit the keyboard twice already.

cheeriosluvr
07-09-2002, 08:41 AM
yeah id check for a IC leak, you will hear a whistl and it wont wanna idle and will just about stall out, the only reason i know this is because it just happened to me and i tightened up the IC tubes and it ran excellant....

manifolds getting hot is normal...these cars pump out A LOT of heat

Todd

89sc5spd
07-09-2002, 03:50 PM
correct me if im wrong but could it be that the engine computer is in the "re-learning" process?

im not sure if this is it but it sounds like thats what it could be, i hear sometimes people have these problems when this happens.

as for you having to "gas" it to run, my friend had the same problem but not in the same type of car, his throttle only needed readjusting..

Hope this helps..

cheeriosluvr
07-09-2002, 04:00 PM
that may also be a problem that the idel set screw is turned all the way in

todd

MikeM
07-09-2002, 05:13 PM
I am having the exact same problem with my new motor. After it warms up, I lose all power to it. I have my mechanic under the hood right now (and has been for over 2 weeks) to locate the problem.

I have replaced:

Cam sensor
Crank sensor
O2 sensors
ECT sensor
Supercharger
this, that and the other thing

bigcletus94
07-09-2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by cheeriosluvr
yeah id check for a IC leak, you will hear a whistl and it wont wanna idle and will just about stall out, the only reason i know this is because it just happened to me and i tightened up the IC tubes and it ran excellant....

manifolds getting hot is normal...these cars pump out A LOT of heat

Todd

It was whistling and acting just as you described. But it also has a howling and if I keep the RPM's at 2k, it just shakes like crazy; like the timing is off or there is a miss or something.

I know that I have the Cam housing/sensor thing lined up properly because it looks just like it should in all of the pictures I have seen.

I do believe that the IC tubes are poorly sealed as most of the RTV I used on them got all messed up in the process of trying to bolt up the tubes and jiggle them around.

There has got to be a better way to seal these damn things. I have heard of using a special kind of tape.

There was actually some kind of tape on there around the spherical part that mates up to the connecting ends. It was white. Anyone know what that was and where I could get some more? Thanks

MikeM
07-09-2002, 10:07 PM
Your local stealership will have the tape. I'm not sure if you have to buy the entire supercharger sealing kit, or if you can buy the tape alone. You'll have to check with them.

Slysc
07-09-2002, 10:39 PM
I just started up after rebuilding the upper end also and you are describing exactly how mine is acting. I've checked the timing chain, all possible vacuum leak areas, and reset the EECIV and it still does it. I've got my cam sensor installed exactly like the post that describes how to do it. ???!! All my electrical connections are right. You should check your timing. I checked mine and it was way off. I just started it up tonight after re-rechecking it and it ran OK until it warmed up and then it switched into "runs like #@#$" mode as soon as it got to temp. I limped it home and it gets worse! As soon as I pull up to my garage, smoke is pouring out from under the hood (I guess I got an oil leak). Then all of a sudden the engine burst into flames:eek:!! I freaked out and ran to get the hose. I hosed it down but it woundn't go out so I left the hose on it and ran into the garage and got two gallons of washer fluid and poured those on it. It seemed like forever but I finally got it out. It was burning for 1-2 minutes at least. It's dark out now so I couldn't see if it toasted all my wires and rubber stuff. I don't even want to know. I just want to go to bed and go to my happy place.:confused: :(

Dan

bigcletus94
07-10-2002, 12:20 AM
SlySC, really sorry to hear about your car. I hope that there wasn't too much damage done to it. Its times like this when you just want to give up and take a sledge hammer to the whole thing and get some frustration out. These cars are such nightmares to work with. I do love how it drives (err how it used to about 6 months ago) but after all the endless cash I have dumped into it, I wish I never bought it. We are lucky to have such a great source for info and help as sccoa though....

As for the engine timing, how do you check the timing and how do you adjust it? I thought all you had to do was position the 1# cylinder at TDC, point the harmonic balancer at it and the mark, and face the cam sensor housing in its spot properly. Am I mistaken? I have a timing light I can use. I just have never worked with a car like this; one that doesnt have a regular distributor and coil and all that. My 5.0 Cobra is so much more standard and reliable.:)

As it is right now, it starts then immediately dies if I donít give it gas...every time. I have only started it a handfull of times. It runs as if the spark plug wires are crossed but I know they aren't as I have checked it several times.

Not to mention I have tranny fluid and power steering fluid leaking from everywhere underneath.....I want to know how the hell everyone else taps into these lines and seals them properly? I have hose clamps everywhere and they are tight but it still leaks like a damn siv. Also, I have my IC tubes extra tight now and I can still hear a whistle so I know they are sealing for chit.

Could a clogged cat cause these problems? The thing that gets me is that this is EXACTLY how the car acted with the old motor with 100k miles on it the last night I drove it. It did not want to idle and it sounds the same as then. Now I have a new motor in it and still have the same problems! I do know for sure that the old motor was bad because parts of the bearings were floating around in the oil pan and the whole crankshaft would slide back and forth in the block 1/4 of an inch::eek:

bigcletus94
07-10-2002, 12:32 AM
I just scanned my codes and i get:

111, 172, and 176

acording to my book, 111 = system pass
172 = HEGO (HO2s) sensor fault /lean
176 = HEGO (HO2s) sensor fault/ always lean

not really sure if these could be related to my problem or not. What is a HEGO? Is it those sensors on the exhaust manifolds with the yellow tubing? The 172 and 176 were the stored in memory codes and the 111 was the current code. I have never gotten 172 176 with the old motor; I used to get EGR codes all the time but maybe that was fixed with the new sensor.

I did not run the engine prior to doing the test like you are supposed to according to the book however. It was stone cold at the time.

BlownSuperBird
07-10-2002, 02:26 AM
hey, check the fuel pressure at the schrader valve on the fuel rail...the HEGO is the air/ fuel sensor in the exhaust manifold. Its basically telling your car is running lean or so it thinks...and its running like ~~~~ because....

1. It is running lean and you are gonna show low fuel pressure at the rail.

2. Your computer is getting codes from the HEGO saying its running lean and its dumping extra fuel to make up fer it...hence running rich and like ~~~~.

Hope this helps

Slysc
07-10-2002, 07:57 AM
To check the timing, take off the dampner cover and find the marks on your dampner that represent TDC, 10, and 20 degrees BTDC. Then just hit it with a timing light compared to the pointer. My timing light has a dial so I just marked TDC on the dampner. My timing at idle without the spout removed should be running around 30 degrees BTDC, when I checked it, it was right at 0-5 degrees. So I'm pretty sure that timing is the issue, I just don't know why.
But first I've got to fix that oil leak and any fire damage that I might find.

pastera
07-10-2002, 08:36 AM
As far as sealing the IC tubes talk to tbird88

Wynn's Web site (http://www.datarecall.net/~tbird88/index/parts/4sale1.htm)

He has a set of die cut gaskets for $15 plus shipping.
Just ordered a set so I can't back them up first person, but the pictures of them look damn good.

DarrylO
07-10-2002, 08:46 AM
With spout plug off, you should be hitting 10ļ BTDC, no where in between. That's what my big book of ford says, and is exactly where my engine fires on number one.

----------------------------------
To check the timing, take off the dampner cover and find the marks on your dampner that represent TDC, 10, and 20 degrees BTDC. Then just hit it with a timing light compared to the pointer. My timing light has a dial so I just marked TDC on the dampner. My timing at idle without the spout removed should be running around 30 degrees BTDC, when I checked it, it was right at 0-5 degrees. So I'm pretty sure that timing is the issue, I just don't know why.
But first I've got to fix that oil leak and any fire damage that I might find.
-----------------------------------

jsue
07-10-2002, 01:47 PM
FORD Doesn't offer the seals as a stand alone part. you have to by a whole kit which cost about $35. The kicker is that the tape in the kit will only be enough for one fitting so you will end up buying 4 kits. In addition, the tape looks like a pain to install. Tbird88's seals attaches to the bolts for easy installation. THe other gaskets in the Ford kit comes with the FelPro Head Gasket kit so you will be spending alot of money just to get the seals. Tbird88's seal kit is also reusable. I will be getting a set when I replace my top one day.

Slysc
07-10-2002, 02:45 PM
I just went to the auto parts store and bought some gasket material. Then cut out gaskets that fit the hole and the bolts.
Easy to do.

bigcletus94
07-11-2002, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by BlownSuperBird
hey, check the fuel pressure at the schrader valve on the fuel rail...the HEGO is the air/ fuel sensor in the exhaust manifold. Its basically telling your car is running lean or so it thinks...and its running like ~~~~ because....

1. It is running lean and you are gonna show low fuel pressure at the rail.

2. Your computer is getting codes from the HEGO saying its running lean and its dumping extra fuel to make up fer it...hence running rich and like ~~~~.

Hope this helps

BlownSuperBird, how do I check the fuel pressure at the valve? What could cause it to run lean? How can I fix it? I know my IC tubes aren't sealed for ~~~~ could that cause it? It runs like it is missing. I am so ready to drive, er push this thing off of a cliff except its so damn hard to push!!! Thanks

Slysc
07-11-2002, 08:44 AM
If your IC tubes are leaking, it would cause a vacuum leak behind the MAFS. This would cause you to run lean because your getting extra air that isn't going through the MAF. I would seal up the IC tubes and get rid of any vacuum leaks before I worried about fuel pressure.
But if you want to check your fuel pressure, buy a fuel pressure test gage and it will screw onto your schrader valve on the fuel rail.

David Neibert
07-11-2002, 09:20 AM
Go to the auto parts store and buy a tube of Permatex High Temp Copper RTV (orange).

Use it to seal all the IC tube connections. Put a bead down about 3/16" dia and smooth out with your finger. Bolt it all up and by the time you are done it will have dried enough to start and drive the car.

I had a similar leak and it ran just like you are describing actually a little worse.

David