Who believes in cryogenically treating engine parts?

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with cryogenic treatment of internal engine componants?

IT seems to a little bit of a black magic type thing, just curious....

sizemoremk said:

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with cryogenic treatment of internal engine componants?

IT seems to a little bit of a black magic type thing, just curious....

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We do that to our race cars. Its called "Cold Forging" and "Nitriding." We basically only do it do the crank because aftermarket rods and pistons already do that stuff. The reason we do it the crank is because if you spin a bearing it doesnt score the crank it just puts the bearing material on it and you can polish it off without any damage to the crank.

Who does it for you, and is nitriding the same thing???

Would recommend doing it to stock rods and pistons (can hyperutectic be cryo'd?)

For some added strength?

Thanks!

if you want to strengthen stock rods a bit have them shot peened.

sizemoremk said:

Who does it for you, and is nitriding the same thing???

Would recommend doing it to stock rods and pistons (can hyperutectic be cryo'd?)

For some added strength?

Thanks!

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I just know the guys phone number I dont know what his business is called. Nitriding is done the same reason cold forging is, but its not the same thing. Nitriding is similar to chroming except for it puts about a .020" of nitrate in the crank that straightens out and compacts all of the molecules inside of the crank.

Hypereutectic can be cold forged depending on how porous the rod is. This is why shot peening is recommended, but you can have hypereutectic cold forged.

V6Sprout said:

if you want to strengthen stock rods a bit have them shot peened.

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Can anyone comment on shot peening vs cryo/forged nitrided, atc???

The guy at the machine shop said he could shot peen my rods, but didn;t realy believe it helped much...

Can anyone comment on their shot peening beliefs???

Thanks!

we had a guy on our mustang board that put 403 RWHP down with shot peened SC rods.

Cryo works and works well. I've built complete engines of all kinds that were completely cryo'ed and they've held up great.
The parts are much stronger and last alot longer using cryo.

You golfers out there should not cryo your Titanium drivers however. The epoxy inside the head that holds the weight cant take the cold so you end up with a big Titanium baby rattle.

If you check the metalurgical groups at groups.google.com you'll be able to find some explinations for how this works. It's not black magic, but it does require some very specific methodolgy of cooling to very specific temperatures.

If I recall, it has something to do with converting Austenite to Martinsite that was left over in carbon steel when it was quenched. Thus the steel needs to have Austenite in it for cryo cooling to be considered to be effective. Though some companies claim benefits from cryo cooling aluminum, that gets more into black magic.

The point is make sure the company you send something to to be cryo cooled shows they know what they are doing. Just throwing it into a vat of liquid nitrogen isn't sufficient.

Shot peening is an accepted method of increasing the density of the steel at the surface which can help prevent surface fractures due to stress. Polishing the beams of the rods is also recommended to remove the machining marks from when the rod as forged along the sides of the rod. This removes possible stress risers where cracks can form.

i called this place today, as I thuought I might be able to take my stuff to him... Atlanta was the closest place to me... Might be better to get a reference or two and go with a know good shop and ship em out...


http://www.evansperformance.com/home2.html

The guy I spoke to didn't know what hypereutectic was

But seemed to be able to talk the talk before that point...

He said he wasn't familiar with hypereutectic pistons, and would rather not do them.

This was really scarry, but i wonder if it was just the guy I was talking to???

They also offered another service for "polishing" the parts to improve windage... I assume he means the oil will not stick very long.... but would a windage tray not negate the usefullness of this???

Anyways, the process was cheaper than what I thougt it might be, but I guess I will have to look into it a little more.

I read the thing about aluminum, but also read others say something about this improving aluminum???

I wonder if you could shot peen/polish and cryo some rods???
Which would you do first???

I just went throuhg several board discussion, including ones with psts representing the companies that do this, and now I am more confused....

I did see where one guy said he could see the difference in the surfaces with a microscope. I seen claims of scientific studies, but never any scientific studies.... Guess I gota look deeper.

But the main thing I am looking at, is how would it be around so long if it don't do something??? But I guess the same thing could be said for slick 50...

cryo

sizemoremk said:

I just went throuhg several board discussion, including ones with psts representing the companies that do this, and now I am more confused....

I did see where one guy said he could see the difference in the surfaces with a microscope. I seen claims of scientific studies, but never any scientific studies.... Guess I gota look deeper.

But the main thing I am looking at, is how would it be around so long if it don't do something??? But I guess the same thing could be said for slick 50...

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Here is one of my friends here in Waco Tx who does cryogenics just give him a hollar he can tell you all about it all of my parts are cryoed for my soon to be a stroker motor and he is really reasonable, yes it very much worth it, when you Cryo material it make the molecular structure slow down or something like that and so heat will nt affect it as much you still have the ability to break things but not as much.http://www.tmiusa.com/TMIcryo.html
This guy is the best. I will tell you though he is very busy but he is worth talking to. He and his sons Got me into the love hate relationship I have with my Sc's now I cant have another car. Just remember an engine is oly as strong as it weakest component.

Thanks, I shot him an email!

If I were you I would get a late model blower because ANY early model blower modified to any extent isn't close to being as good as a ported late model maybe even a stock one. The MP inlet plenum is the biggest advantage we get with the M90.

CMac89 said:

If I were you I would get a late model blower because ANY early model blower modified to any extent isn't close to being as good as a ported late model maybe even a stock one. The MP inlet plenum is the biggest advantage we get with the M90.

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Why do you say this???
Are the coated rotors providing that much more of a seal that they will create more power??

The entire opening will be redone. and larger than the late model blower.

I'm still working on a way to make the "throat" between the TB and SC inlet a little bigger.... And make it "look" fairly stock....