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View Full Version : Diamond Piston GP, we need at least 5 people



RGR
03-25-2005, 03:47 PM
I have 1 for sure and 1 very likely, This would be for
stock replacement pistons but forged, very high quality
material, and for a very low price! This would establish
the RDMotorsport buy-in and then RD will get the best
prices all the time.


Post here if you are buying pistons soon, and a time frame as well.
If I do not get 5 the pricing will be higher, but still less than individual
retail. The lowest prices we can expect (with 5 in the GP) would be
$400 for a set, using your own pins.

Hock
04-02-2005, 06:50 AM
When are planning to buy? I am interested.

RGR
04-02-2005, 10:03 AM
Depends on when we get 5, but you could get a set anyway,
at any time, even if we do not get 5. BKB was going to get in
but he might need his sooner.

Hock
04-02-2005, 01:54 PM
Got a web site for them.

RGR
04-02-2005, 02:45 PM
Got a web site for them.

Diamond Racing Pistons (http://www.diamondracing.net)


The mistake that past buyers have made is that they all have gotten
their own pistons custom made from them, and Diamond won't copy
someone else's past pattern for a new customer, but what we are
trying to do here is make some designs that anyone can buy w/o
working up a whole new custom spec for themselves. I'll be making
2 or 3 styles for stock replacements, (with improvements of course!)
and some long rod pistons, and maybe an SPI/SC piston later. ALL
styles will have a chamber matched dish, except maybe the SR's
if that adds considerable cost that the GP folk do not want.
But once we get the MWD pricing, we are going all out!

You could go direct to Diamond yourself, but it would cost more
than even buying one set from us. We're offering this so we can get
MWD pricing from Diamond and offer these pistons as shelf-stock
items to all SC'ers for better prices than anyone else can get anywhere,
on any brand forged piston!

XR7 Dave
04-03-2005, 02:37 AM
I'll second what Robert said above. It's about time SC'ers be able to call up and order a piston without having to give all the specs and pay list price. We can get both standard and custom pistons through this initial group purchase and then after that is done we will have the ability to order 1, 2, 3, or however many at a time is needed all for the same lower price. This is another thing that I've been working on trying to bring quality parts to the SC community at reasonable prices.

If you in the market, speak up now!

David

RGR
04-03-2005, 10:28 AM
David, maybe if you would start this post over on GP's
and link back to here we would get better input, having
your name on it would attract attention and it would
be in the right place as well...
Pluis I will post there and answer any Q's.

Randy N Connie
04-03-2005, 12:00 PM
I am going to buy pistons soon.But I am not sure your piston shape
specs would meet mine.

My combustion chamber shape will not be the standard 3.8 SC head shape.

Thanks Randy

XR7 Dave
04-03-2005, 01:28 PM
Robert, lets nail down the specifics on what people can order and pricing before moving to the GP forum.

Randy, as long as you are willing to send your piston design through us we could make it part of the deal. Not sure if the design is confidential or not. We can maintain confidentiality but the final choice is yours. Diamond can create any piston configuration you want as far as I know.

Jason Wild
04-03-2005, 03:06 PM
I might be in but I would like to know what you can get with this deal.
I'm looking forsomething so I can run some 351w rods. and run about 8.2-8.5 CR

Randy N Connie
04-03-2005, 03:56 PM
I have always altered or machined my own shape on pistons,for my personal perfomance motors.
I would want enough material on top to machine to my final spec.

I don't have enough money to ship drawings/designs out.Paper is to
heavy and costly to ship.And I have a cheap computor.It can't send
port & conbustion chamber picture attachments. :)

Besides I don't think anyone would be interrested in my ideas,And
I don't want to hear how wrong I am about my idea of a combustion
camber Vs piston shape for a blower motor.

I would be interrested in machined pistons with blank tops.

RANDY :)

RGR
04-03-2005, 04:12 PM
I have always altered or machined my own shape on pistons,for my personal perfomance motors.
I would want enough material on top to machine to my final spec.

I don't have enough money to ship drawings/designs out.Paper is to
heavy and costly to ship.And I have a cheap computor.It can't send
port & conbustion chamber picture attachments. :)

Besides I don't think anyone would be interrested in my ideas,And
I don't want to hear how wrong I am about my idea of a combustion
camber Vs piston shape for a blower motor.

I would be interrested in machined pistons with blank tops.

RANDY :)


:lol: I understand, we think the same ;)

I think it would be easier to get "blank dish" pistons made, easier for Diamond
and maybe even cheaper... I also think that we can get by with 5 piston sets
that are different, they said 5 sets, not 5 identical sets... but if they had to
be identical then we could take care of R-n-C later, or sooner if they need it
sooner. Like I said, we can get WD pricing now, we just need 5 sets to get
MWD which is Master Wholesale Distributor.

Jason Wild
04-03-2005, 04:57 PM
I'm up with a set of blank dish I can machine them later to what I want.

RGR
04-03-2005, 11:11 PM
This is looking good!

Either of you guys care to discuss your ideas of piston dish? :D

XxSlowpokexX
04-04-2005, 12:14 AM
I'm running the diamond pistons/351 H beam rod combo.

The Diamond pistons are a nice peice. Not as nice as a certain other brand out there but for the price ya cant go wrong at all. I'd reccomend them..

This combo however is heavier then stock..Both the pistons and the rods.

I do however also reccomend the swaintech gold coat for the piston tops. This will reduce detonation garunteed:O)

XR7 Dave
04-04-2005, 11:26 AM
Robert, can you get a form that shows what info Diamond needs to put together a piston? With that info we can start putting together an order.

seawalkersee
04-04-2005, 01:17 PM
I would be intersted some day but I can not do it now (I know thats just what you wanted to hear). The reason I am posting is because I want to know the ideas you all have about the shape of the dish. As far as N/A engines go, there are bonus points for the three MAIN shapes. Flat tops give you a better spark path. Dish brings the CC down into the piston. Dome...well obvious reasons.

As far as the shape for a dish, I am in a quandry about how many different shapes there could possible be to increase performance. That aside, how much material is it going to take to make it indestructable while still being concious about the weight?

Chris

XxSlowpokexX
04-05-2005, 02:48 AM
For some reason some of the more expensive options out there as far as custom pistons are noticably lighter and the finishing is a tad better. I;m wondering if that extra fit and finish is where the weight goes.

Randy N Connie
04-05-2005, 10:07 AM
I would need more info ,before I would buy.

Material made from
heat treat number
piston specs for size.piston skirt length.
Piston Wt.
Piston wrist pin WT.

I would want to add nylatron(sp) buttons in the skirts. machine
the tops and underside after purchase.

Thank Randy

XxSlowpokexX
04-05-2005, 03:40 PM
Randy,

You provide them with the specs and what you want. As far as material though Id figure there are no options. Its bene so long I dont even remeber

RGR
04-05-2005, 04:45 PM
The material is 2618 and we can pretty much specify anything else.
I'm suggesting to set it at a single spec for the "blank dish" as I am calling
it and we'll get most of that input from you, Randy. Perhaps even have you
make some for othre people if you are willing and have the time (future)

I noticed we live pretty close, I'm in Terre Haute, Indiana.

seawalkersee
04-06-2005, 02:13 AM
Ok...Now we are over my head. I have knowledge of about three or four types of piston material. Forged aluminum, cast (crap), hypereutectic, and I am sure if i thought really hard I could come up with a few more.

Randy, you asked about the pin. I thought that was not included. I did some checking on the pins. For the 4.6 (I know I know, but it is my reference), a Manley pin is about a .120" wall and weighs about 89g. The standard pin is .150 and is 106g. The Manley one is supposed to be upwards of 1200 HP @ 9000 rpm.

I have heard of the buttons causing problems in the cyl. and with the piston. The things will dig a groove and then hang up causing the piston to crack. This was not from a reliable source though. I have only heard of this practice on the HD.

Chris

Randy N Connie
04-06-2005, 08:27 AM
Chris,If I build a SC motor,I don't plan on getting over 10 miles
of run time before the motor is junk.

RGR
I don't have any time to do any extra machine work.I have been
turning down jobs for SCers now.

I have been thinking of building a sleaved motor(siamese).So my
bore may work out to be to large piston diameter for this group buy.
My pre-lim thought on pistons is that I would need a stroker type
piston.I would what the wrist pin raised.And short piston skirts,
with buttons to help hold the short pistons straight in the bore.

I really feel like I would want to go with a forged piston.I sure a
hyper piston would be strong enough 10 to 15 passes.When I plan
to sleave the block.There will be a spiget or fire ring on top of the
sleave protruding above the block deck.There will be a receiver
grove cut into the head for the fire ring to seat in,with a
.003 interfearance fit.So I really will not need head gaskets to
seal combustion pressures.This will enable me to use boosts up
to 35 to 40lbs.

So you can see that my use for new pistons are a little different.
than for normal SC use.So I most likely will not fit into this group
buy.

My cumbustion chamber is a bathtube shape.This was to unshoud
the back of the valves.I wanted to do a hemi type chamber.But
after a sonic test.The head do's not have enough meat to cut
for a hemi shape.The head would need the cumbustion chamber
cut out and a new cumbustion chamber hat welded in,to get it
shaped.I used to do this for iron heads,by way of furnace braising.
I don't think the aluminum head would work well for this old type
furnace mod.

So I am on the fence on this GP .my needs are a little different.

Thanks Randy

seawalkersee
04-06-2005, 10:58 AM
How do you make it saimese? Do you just shove a single chunk in there and punch two or three holes? How does this effect the piston?

It seems to me that you are looking for more like a modified 351 piston with a short ring pack and a raised pin. Do you know what bore you are gonna go with on your sc?

What the he11 are you goin to run in there that is going to make it a ten mile engine?

Chirs

ARV90SC
04-06-2005, 04:05 PM
I Need A Forged Stock Set Asap!!!!!! **********************
Lets Get This Show On The Road!!! :D :D :D

BKB
04-07-2005, 09:49 PM
Sorry RGR Mik is ordering this monday and i need those pistons to start the work on the block. Unless something changes i am not in this GB.

Sorry
BKB

RGR
04-08-2005, 10:23 AM
That is fine Brian, I knew your schedule was probably sooner than our GP
was going down. You still Rock!


ARV90SC
We can order uyou a set before the GP if you need them ASAP, it will be a little
more but still a great price, probably $450 give or take. LMK if you need them
sooner or can wait for the GP.

XxSlowpokexX
04-08-2005, 03:32 PM
Stroked to 4.2 liter dimentions are already out there. Unless you want to go bigger..Why I have no idea...

Also Why reinvent the wheel. Use a 351 rod and available pistons that are out there to work with that. The factory piston is not the weak point in our setup...And when H or I beam 351 rods can be had relatively cheap...This whole Group buy is losing its reality.

And 1,400 hp has already been made on a turboed stroked SC motor...So why doesnt someone just look into that...I would but I'm done with doing anymore then I already have. You guys are killing me

Damojn

seawalkersee
04-13-2005, 06:26 AM
So...can you explain the siameese set up to me then? :confused: Maybee Im just stoopid...


Chris

seawalkersee
05-24-2005, 01:39 PM
Is this thing on? I still dont know how to make the Siameese thingie? WILL SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN IT TO ME?

Chris

Jason Wild
05-27-2005, 10:20 PM
has there been anymore head way in to doing this buy I'm looking for a set soon.

XR7 Dave
05-27-2005, 11:12 PM
How soon Jason? This is not dead. We are working on getting enough people together at the right time to make the initial buy. After that everyone can benefit from the price breaks plus you will have part numbers which you can order without having to spec a totally custom piston every time and pay the premium for said custom piston.

The point is that under the current system everyone who gets a set of Diamond pistons, regardless of how they get them, they are paying custom one-off prices. If we can establish an initial purchase, we can set up SC specific part numbers so that you don't have to pay custom pricing each time. Therefore, every person from here out will benefit from our group buy.

The deal is open for whenever we can get 4 people together at once to make the purchase.

Jason Wild
05-28-2005, 09:57 AM
Dave,
There is no big rush to get them but I would like to be getting them by the end of the year I guess. It's going to take time to get the motor ready.

Randy N Connie
05-28-2005, 11:15 AM
Stroked to 4.2 liter dimentions are already out there. Unless you want to go bigger..Why I have no idea...
And 1,400 hp has already been made on a turboed stroked SC motor...So why doesnt someone just look into that...I would but I'm done with doing anymore then I already have. You guys are killing me

Damojn
Damon do you have any info on the 1,400 hp motor?
Pictures,Web-site,contact names,machinest name,
head stock or billet info.block stock or after market,
crankshaft,cam,rods,pistons,umbrella girls phone numbers
,more info please.

Randy

seawalkersee
05-28-2005, 02:38 PM
Damon do you have any info on the 1,400 hp motor?
Pictures,Web-site,contact names,machinest name,
head stock or billet info.block stock or after market,
crankshaft,cam,rods,pistons,umbrella girls phone numbers
,more info please.

Randy
Yeah, its 555-1212...she will be at the BBQ for you today.

Chris

lilredstang
08-19-2005, 05:35 PM
I will need some soon. Just looking for a stock replacement design thats forged not hyper, but may consider a forged piston that will use the 351 windsor rods.

Mike8675309
08-19-2005, 08:24 PM
I'm changing my plans and now will be looking for forged pistons. I'd really like to see the assembly be lower in weight than stock. Is that even a possibility?

I assume that regardless we're still looking at a close to stock piston size other than a pin placement setup for more common 351w rods and full floating pins.

I'll bow to the experts on design.

XR7 Dave
08-19-2005, 08:39 PM
The point of this thread and group buy is to establish some basic parameters for some SC pistons and have part numbers created so that people can order pistons without paying custom piston prices. We do need 5 sets of pistons to get this started but we don't have to all order the same piston.

We do have to narrow down some of the requirements, but there are options.

For example:

1) A stock weight piston that retains stock rods and compression ratio.

2) A lightweight piston that utilizes a standard 351W rod.

3) A lightweight piston that utilizes a 6.2" rod.

And other possible options. The piston top will be a custom design with better quench characteristics than any of the common replacements currently available.

It seems fairly easy to get 3 people together, but 5 gets tricky and it hasn't happened so far. We are still working on it. If you are ready to put down a deposit, please just reply below this post. That will give us an idea who is serious.

Thanks.

Mike8675309
08-20-2005, 01:43 AM
How much for the deposit and I'll put it down. We need to get this stuff running.

I'm looking for the best option for a system that'll make over 400 hp easy. Expect Peak power at 6200/6300 rpm and do it all year long without blinking. No nitros.

Since most SC owners are very cheap, myself included, value is where it's at. If the longer rods are of benefit and reasonable cost, no problem. I can see the difficulty here on a one stop shop though just thinking about it myself.

kiwikiwikiwi
08-20-2005, 11:49 AM
I need pistons very soon for the 351w rods:). I'm in on this on if it goes through.

Scott

lilredstang
08-20-2005, 07:45 PM
DO WE GOT A TIMEFRAME ON THIS? MY SHOP GUY IS WAITING AND HE GETS A BIT CRANKY IF HE IS KEPT WAITING. KINDA LIKE THE SOUP NATZI FROM SIGNFELD :p I AINT IN A MASSIVE HURRY, BUT HE IS.

XR7 Dave
08-20-2005, 08:36 PM
We have 3 here and I have a possibility for the additional 2 needed. Give me till Monday night to figure it out. The orders can be placed immediately once the decision is made and money is in. I'll get a timeline from Diamond for production.

Moving this discussion to the Group Buys forum. It looks like we may be able to get this going.

Adam155724
09-04-2005, 12:59 AM
Randy.

I believe he is talking about the SC based motor that powered Nelson Hoyos Ford Focus.

http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=290

That is the article about the car if I am not mistaken. I think the total displacement came out to 4.7

~Adam

XR7 Dave
09-06-2005, 11:36 PM
Randy.

I believe he is talking about the SC based motor that powered Nelson Hoyos Ford Focus.

http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=290

That is the article about the car if I am not mistaken. I think the total displacement came out to 4.7

~Adam

Actually that motor is not an SC based motor. Rather it is a Busch GN motor from back when they tried to run V6's. They started out at 4.5L. I saw one of these motors propel a lightweight 65 Mustang to a 9.80 - carburated and no juice. :eek:

mn12sc35th
09-07-2005, 05:55 AM
Nelson convinced the good people over at Ford to cough up a V6 block and aluminum racing heads

That particular car has a ford motor ;)

How much of a deposit are we needing here? I'm going to have to decide what I want to do for pistons sometime in the near future anyway. Might be able to scrape up enough :)

XR7 Dave
09-07-2005, 08:30 AM
Nelson convinced the good people over at Ford to cough up a V6 block and aluminum racing heads

That particular car has a ford motor ;)

Yes it does. SVO made a special 4.5L V6 engine for the Busch Grand National Race Series after which the Buick Grand National was named. Few people remember that race series anymore. People wouldn't watch it because the V6 cars sounded crappy which is why they don't do it anymore. lol


How much of a deposit are we needing here? I'm going to have to decide what I want to do for pistons sometime in the near future anyway. Might be able to scrape up enough :)

Check the group buys forum for an update on the pistons. The initial group buy is completed but more pistons will be available when you are ready.