Got the SC dyno'd....Excellent results

[007_SuperCoupe]

The time finally came where I could quantify the hard work that I've been putting into my SC for the past few months.

Here's a list of the performance mods that I have done to the car:
Custom (Home) Ported '95 Supercharger
5% Pulley
70mm BBK Throttle Body
Ported Inlet Plenum
C&L 76mm MAF
SCT Tune by Dave Dalke
Custom 2 1/2" True Dual Exhaust
Light Weight Jackshaft Pulley
Roller Rockers
Steel Idler Pulleys
Honed Upper IC Tube
180* Thermostat
Honed, Ceramic Coated and Header Wrapped Lower IC Tube
Iridium Plugs
Taylor Wires
Grand Am Front Air Dam
255 lph Fuel Pump
Custom Built Double Intercooler
8" 800 CFM IC Fan
High Rev Trans-Go Shift Kit
Transmission Cooler
tbird88's Poly Rear Differential Mount
Poly Differential Bushings
Solid Rubber Tranny Mount
Poly Crossmember Bushings

Now for the fun part: Below is the dyno sheet from the tune. The first pull (in red) was just after we had installed the C&L, so that is the reason for the high AF ratio. The blue indicates the final run with the tune.

Here are the results of the tune:
248.8 rwhp
340.1 rwtq

Those numbers are with stock heads and cam, as well as the stock 30lb injectors. You will notice that the dyno chart only goes to 4200 rpm. That is where my Trans-Go shift kit was shifting into overdrive on the dyno. That said, I belive that my hp rating is 5-7 more than the results of the dyno. I ran out of injectors at 5200 rpm, so I have another 1000 rpm to pick up a few more hp.

I think this combination to be good for high 13's, but it has yet to be track tested. I don't know when I'll be able to do that because of my work schedule, but at the first available opportunity, I am testing it!

[Lvcien]

The time finally came where I could quantify the hard work that I've been putting into my SC for the past few months.

Here's a list of the performance mods that I have done to the car:
Custom (Home) Ported '95 Supercharger
5% Pulley
70mm BBK Throttle Body
Ported Inlet Plenum
C&L 76mm MAF
SCT Tune by Dave Dalke
Custom 2 1/2" True Dual Exhaust
Light Weight Jackshaft Pulley
Roller Rockers
Steel Idler Pulleys
Honed Upper IC Tube
180* Thermostat
Honed, Ceramic Coated and Header Wrapped Lower IC Tube
Iridium Plugs
Taylor Wires
Grand Am Front Air Dam
255 lph Fuel Pump
Custom Built Double Intercooler
8" 800 CFM IC Fan
High Rev Trans-Go Shift Kit
Transmission Cooler
tbird88's Poly Rear Differential Mount
Poly Differential Bushings
Solid Rubber Tranny Mount
Poly Crossmember Bushings

Now for the fun part: Below is the dyno sheet from the tune. The first pull (in red) was just after we had installed the C&L, so that is the reason for the high AF ratio. The blue indicates the final run with the tune.

Here are the results of the tune:
248.8 rwhp
340.1 rwtq

Those numbers are with stock heads and cam, as well as the stock 30lb injectors. You will notice that the dyno chart only goes to 4200 rpm. That is where my Trans-Go shift kit was shifting into overdrive on the dyno. That said, I belive that my hp rating is 5-7 more than the results of the dyno. I ran out of injectors at 5200 rpm, so I have another 1000 rpm to pick up a few more hp.

I think this combination to be good for high 13's, but it has yet to be track tested. I don't know when I'll be able to do that because of my work schedule, but at the first available opportunity, I am testing it!

How much did all those mods cost you?

Nice Dyno ;)

[BlackbirdSC]

Not bad for the mods installed. The stock cam peaks at 4400-4600. Running it past 5000 is pointless and will just make you slower. Although you probably are right at the edge of the 30# injectors.

No offense, but.. snowballs chance in hell of a high 13 with an auto. When mine was less modified and had a stock bottom end with ported heads, it made 260 RWHP and 350 RWT through the 5 spd. So probably about the same as what you have now. With 2.73 or 3.08 gears (like 3.27 or 3.55s in an auto) I could pull 14.5s all day long with 1.9x 60' times.

Get some work done to the heads, some 38# injectors and a Comp Cams 210/220 .490" lift reground cam and you'll have solid 13.8s or so.

Power sux doesn't it? Never enough... :D

[007_SuperCoupe]

No offense, but.. snowballs chance in hell of a high 13 with an auto. When mine was less modified and had a stock bottom end with ported heads, it made 260 RWHP and 350 RWT through the 5 spd. So probably about the same as what you have now. With 2.73 or 3.08 gears (like 3.27 or 3.55s in an auto) I could pull 14.5s all day long with 1.9x 60' times.

Get some work done to the heads, some 38# injectors and a Comp Cams 210/220 .490" lift reground cam and you'll have solid 13.8s or so.

Power sux doesn't it? Never enough... :D

Keep in mind that elevation plays a big role in e.t.s. I asked a fellow sc'er today about my power level and possible e.t. times. His power levels were slightly less than mine with an auto...he was turning 13.6's at a track only about 300' different in elevation than the track that I run at. He did have 3.55's installed too. I figure that with the elevation I should be able to get 13.9's with a possible 13.8 every now and again. I do have 3.73's that may go on later this summer, but that is dependant upon a lot of other variables.

I'm just going off of a similar vehicle, with similar power levels to see where I will end up at the track. As it looks now, I should be able to achieve high 13's with my set-up at my elevation.

[T-bird4vr]

nice work!

[ThunderDave]

And you still haven't finished the front end yet??? :eek: :D :p

Good numbers Sam. Keep plugging away at it and one day if you're lucky, you'll be as slow as me. :eek:

[SCme94]

No offense, but.. snowballs chance in hell of a high 13 with an auto

I would have to disagree with that. I went 13.98 in my 94 a few years ago with a couple less RWHP than he has. This was with a stock torque converter and street radials.

[007_SuperCoupe]

How much did all those mods cost you?

Nice Dyno ;)

[tried replying last night, but my internet connections went down...so here's your response]

I've spent too much money according to my wife. And I didn't go the fastest and cheapest way to get these numbers. I had a bit of a learning curve to get there. The most important thing to remeber about the cost is that I have installed it all myself. And I've gotten a lot of hand-me-down parts as well. This includes my exhaust, which would have cost about $200 more had I gotten it direct from an exhaust shop. Below is a link to my car on the upper midwest boards. Prices are included for all mods on that board. Any installation prices that you see is what I had to spend to get the other things to make installation possible. Enjoy the reading.

my mods and the cost of each (http://www.midwestthundercats.com/forums/index.php?&act=garage&CODE=12&CID=76)

[Scott Long]

Peter Dennis' SC dyno'd 203 rwhp and I got a 14.6 out of it. So I think if it had 40+ more rear wheel horsepower I could have gotten a 13.8-13.9 out of it assuming that I had a 1.9-2.0 60 ft. time.

[007_SuperCoupe]

I think what most are missing is the torque: 340 rwtq. With that number I think that 13's ARE possible.

Another case in point; another local SC'er (before he decided to go V8) was making 270~ rwhp and 350~ rwtq and was running mid 13's on really bad traction. Yes, the power level is higher than mine, but I still think that high 13's are possible.

[j rick kirby]

they seem a little low, maybe because of the auto tranny?I have the stock IC and xhaust manifolds but it's a 5 speed.Is that the diff?

[007_SuperCoupe]

they seem a little low, maybe because of the auto tranny?I have the stock IC and xhaust manifolds but it's a 5 speed.Is that the diff?

Yes, the auto tranny eats up about 10 hp over the 5-speed. Keep in mind that I'm still running the stock 30 lb. injectors too. They are limited to roughly 260 rwhp in the 5-speeds and 250 rwhp in the autos. An injector upgrade with an additional 5% will yeild a bit more power, but I'm very happy with where my SC stands at this point.

You will want to look at getting at least a double intercooler. If you've got higher power levels than I do with the stock IC, you are leaving some power on the table. I'm still running the stock manifolds too. At this point, I don't see the point in headers.

My next mods will be gears, injectors and a torque converter. Then I'll be looking at bigger mods, like heads, cam, etc.

[Micahdogg]

If you shag some weight (ditching the passenger seat would be a big help) and ran on some drag radials at a minimum....and were able to cut a pretty good 60 foot (1.90 or better) I think you would have some serious 13 second potential. You can dip into the 13's with as little as 95-96 mph which I think you are good for.

BUT, it will take some effort, if you pull up to the line with none of the tricks performed and no attention to traction I think you'll be doing mid 14's.

Micah

[007_SuperCoupe]

If you shag some weight (ditching the passenger seat would be a big help) and ran on some drag radials at a minimum....and were able to cut a pretty good 60 foot (1.90 or better) I think you would have some serious 13 second potential. You can dip into the 13's with as little as 95-96 mph which I think you are good for.

BUT, it will take some effort, if you pull up to the line with none of the tricks performed and no attention to traction I think you'll be doing mid 14's.

Micah

Yeah, I'm agreement there. Right now I've got 200+ lbs of additional crap in the trunk (speaker box, etc) that comes out at the track. I haven't pulled the passenger seat or rear seat yet, but I'm not above it. I have pulled 1.9 60' before I started with the mods, but that was with really good traction (I followed a 9.0 second car, so the track was really sticky). Since I've started all my mods, I've been traction limited. Drag radials are a must to get into the 13's. There's no way that I can do it on street tires. I spin on launch, 1-2 shift and the 2-3 shift. And that's with W rated tires too, so DR's are in my future.

[Micahdogg]

FWIW, Russ Jamison claims to have hit a 13.96 at 95 mph before, but his best documented run (I think there is video in multimedia section) was a 14.025 @ 94.4 mph.

His mods on a 90 AOD SC were spearco IC (not as great as it sounds), raised top, K&N panel, 73mm MAF, ported stock TB, ASP underdrives, 10% pulley, no cats + flowmaster exhaust, Level 10 AOD, tranny cooler, 2800 stall with solid input shaft, 3.73's, 255 50 drag radials on stock wheels. But he could cut mid 1.8 second 60 foot times frequently and did the shock disconnect trick among some others. He's been known to run a short belt to bypass the ps pulley at the track, but not sure if he did it on these runs. I'm almost positive he didn't remove the passenger seat, but all the normal stuff was removed.

Micah

[007_SuperCoupe]

Hopefully I'll be able to test it all out with drag radials on the 20th. If not, then I may try for the club clash in IA somewhere around that time as well. I had a chance Sunday morning, but didn't go since the wife has been kind of upset with me lately.

Ambient temp for the dyno pull was 76* so I know that I have decent power to that level. It's been pretty cool here lately so I'm hoping for some continued cool weather for the track. I just need to make sure that I hook up.

I'll be very happy though with low 14's. My best so far has been a 15.007 so a second faster would make me very happy. I've added about 100 rwhp/tq so the 14.0 should be attainable. I'm just hoping for that little extra that sends me to 13.9... We'll see when I go to the track.

[Micahdogg]

You added 100 RWHP/T? You mean crank HP/T? About the worst SC I've seen in stock trim put 190RWHP down....most are capable of 200/300 RW stock.

BUT, you probably have a solid 20% drivetrain loss which would put you around 310HP/425T. Pretty nice numbers.

Micah

[007_SuperCoupe]

You added 100 RWHP/T? You mean crank HP/T? About the worst SC I've seen in stock trim put 190RWHP down....most are capable of 200/300 RW stock.

BUT, you probably have a solid 20% drivetrain loss which would put you around 310HP/425T. Pretty nice numbers.

Micah

Going off what Ford advertises for hp ratings...210/315. Those are the #'s I went with since I didn't have a "starting" dyno. figuring 20% drivetrain loss, that's where I came up with the rwhp/tq... Just using the best known numbers I had. Since I didn't have any, I used Ford's.

[SCgraphics guy]

You should get 13s but it will be close, if not the gears will get you there for sure.
Doug, Tony & I went to the track Sun AM.
Doug ran a 16 sec ET at 96mph, spinning so bad he ran a 3.6 60', his car definately has 13s in it. He put down like 290hp/tq??. after tuning.
He didn't make another pass cause the car was acting weird.
After he shut it down it started gurgling and overflowing coolant out the overflow tank. I don't even want to thing HGs after just got it running. but ???? It wasn't overheating but pressure on the coolant system was quite obvious.
As for me I ran a 13.15 @ 106 , couldn't get a 12, but I don't think the 3.55s were helping. The best #s we made...sat night after midnight were 343hp/404.4 tq, After Daves tune.
Tony ran a 15.2 but wasn't to happy with that. 4.6 LX, I think his dyno #s were about 185hp
It was nice to meet you Sam,
hope to see you at the shootout in OK this fall.

[007_SuperCoupe]

I heard about Doug's misfortunes at the track. He was supposed to call, so I could go too, but that's okay. There are other days and I think it was a bit too cold for any traction unless you've got good tires, which I don't!

You did end up with some pretty good numbers considering all the trouble you had. I wish that I could have seen it, but had the wife issue to deal with...I still like sleeping in my bed!

Even after the events of Friday night, the wife said that October is still possible for me. So that is very good to hear. I'm definately going to be doing everything that I can to get there. And if I can convince the wife it's worth it, I'll have the gears and torque converter added to my mod list for then.

It was great to meet you too. It was also good for the wife to see that there's women involved in the SC community as well. I think that she's not so anti-SC anymore.

[Shockwave]

Well Ford underated the HP level slightly so that it would be under the advertised Mustang numbers. Like Micah said 190 rwhp is what most early SCs will put down stock. I think my friends stock 95 5 speed made 205 rwhp. He is now at around 245 rwhp and has run a 14.49 @95 mph with a 2.0 60'. 413 ft elevation.

If you get some slicks a very low 14 should be there. Micah has just gotten to the 13s and he is making around 270 rwhp.

I know that my 89 SC auto shifts into 3rd right around the 1/8th mile. So I have no gear multiplication for half the track, and from that point on it's all about hp. Your 4R70W auto SC has the same 3.27 gears as mine has so this should be the same situation for you as well. I have no doubt the 3.73s would be worth 2 to 3 tenths.

Jerry

[007_SuperCoupe]

Your 4R70W auto SC has the same 3.27 gears as mine has so this should be the same situation for you as well. I have no doubt the 3.73s would be worth 2 to 3 tenths.

Jerry

Actually I've got the AOD...Still a '92 SC... Just put the late model blower on it. 3.73's should be worth more than .3 over my 3.27's. But traction will be the issue...it already is...

[SCgraphics guy]

Sam
Do yourself a favor & scrap the torque conv idea until you get some injectors & gears.
Then you will know whats its really capable of.
The convertor alone will only make you mad. you won't see abig improvement anywhere, just a loss of MPG.
The convertor is for people who have everything else & are looking for that bigger launch at the track.
Don't forget NA cars dont make big torque down low, They need a convertor to improve 60' times. My boys N/A 350 79 camaro is putting down 260rwhp, has a 2500 stall & runs 13.8s with a lousy 2.0, 60' on drag radials. The convertor helps him as his TQ #'s only come on, up top. without the conv he only managed 2.3s on drag radials
You have an SC and the low torque numbers are there already.

I'm just speaking from experience...you can run 13s with some DRs, gears & bigger injectors to get that little bit of extra HP up top.
4 yrs ago we ran 13.8s with your same setup, plus the 3.73 gears & 38lb inj.
no convertor we managed, 1.90 60' times on BFG Drag Radials.
so get the gears first, then the inj. after that do whatever you like.

[XR7 Dave]

As for me I ran a 13.15 @ 106 , couldn't get a 12, but I don't think the 3.55s were helping. The best #s we made...sat night after midnight were 343hp/404.4 tq, After Daves tune.


Damn Todd, I would have bet the gas back to CO that you were going to run a 12 something! The car felt really strong on the street although the more I think about it I feel that it is just running out of IC because it does still lay down some in 3rd. However, the MPH is good. 106 is an improvement for the car I believe, isn't it? Pretty decent for 1500 ft elev.

Any other comments about how the car ran at the track?

[007_SuperCoupe]

Sam
Do yourself a favor & scrap the torque conv idea until you get some injectors & gears.
Then you will know whats its really capable of.
The convertor alone will only make you mad. you won't see abig improvement anywhere, just a loss of MPG.
The convertor is for people who have everything else & are looking for that bigger launch at the track.
Don't forget NA cars dont make big torque down low, They need a convertor to improve 60' times. My boys N/A 350 79 camaro is putting down 260rwhp, has a 2500 stall & runs 13.8s with a lousy 2.0, 60' on drag radials. The convertor helps him as his TQ #'s only come on, up top. without the conv he only managed 2.3s on drag radials
You have an SC and the low torque numbers are there already.

I'm just speaking from experience...you can run 13s with some DRs, gears & bigger injectors to get that little bit of extra HP up top.
4 yrs ago we ran 13.8s with your same setup, plus the 3.73 gears & 38lb inj.
no convertor we managed, 1.90 60' times on BFG Drag Radials.
so get the gears first, then the inj. after that do whatever you like.

I'll consider the advise. One thing that I'd like to point out though is that I'm not going to go with a high stall converter for better low numbers. I was actually looking into a converter that has close to the same stall as stock, but non-locking so as to keep the torque multiplication throughout the 1/4 mile. I'm not ready for a high stall converter yet as my engine is no-where near the power level to properly use one. I was just thinking a little different from stock to get the most out of my current set-up. When I do more radical engine work, then I'd look at getting a more extreme TC. What's your advice on that?
(Specifically I'm looking at a 2100 stall non-locking) Gears are definately first, but then I was going to go with the torque converter as new injectors would through off my tune enough to have to get it re-tuned. Right now I feel comfortable with the tune, because I'm not making any power above 5k...and my injectors are out at 5200. I'm not sure that larger injectors would be helpful until I have some head and or cam work done. I could go with a different pulley and then larger injectors would be more of an issue, but I think that for now, I'm happy with the power level.

Truth be told, I'm still up in the air as to what I'm going to do after the gears. There's not much that I can do without getting into the heads/cam or AR. A raised top may or may not help. I've never been convinced of the benefit, so I haven't done it yet. A non-locking converter will help me get a little faster times. I refuse to spend money on the MP stuff, partly because I think it's overpriced and partly because I'm doing pretty good without any of it. (If I get a raised top it won't be an MP one.) What mods can I do that would be considered "bolt on" type mods? I'm saving the heads/cam, AR for another time. Right now I want to keep it all external. I know there's not much that I can do.