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tbird88
05-08-2005, 11:05 AM
I have an AOD that was behind a pretty stout Windsor and it's lookin' like the parts might wind up in a '94 4R70W that I have. The 4R will then go into my '91 with a 3.73 gear.

Currently, the AOD has a
2800 converter
input shaft
reverse valve body
trans brake

There's a local trans builder that is more than willin' to help swap the parts to the 4R and also add some killer clutches etc, any tips/warnings?

thanks,

'bird

AnnivSpeCpe
05-08-2005, 12:53 PM
Hey Bird - I've not heard of anybody that successfully put a 4R70W into a car that had an aod originally because the 4R70W is electronically controlled. Bauman supposedly has a "Baumanator" that is a stand alone computer to do this, but all I've heard is it doesn't work right (something to do with the torque of the SC motor). My info is not very current so if you learn anything new post it for us. John

tbird88
05-08-2005, 01:57 PM
Hey Bird - I've not heard of anybody that successfully put a 4R70W into a car that had an aod originally because the 4R70W is electronically controlled. Bauman supposedly has a "Baumanator" that is a stand alone computer to do this, but all I've heard is it doesn't work right (something to do with the torque of the SC motor). My info is not very current so if you learn anything new post it for us. JohnOne of the first things mentioned by the trans guy was the better gear set in the 4R, he described the 4R as the "Turbo 400" of Ford autos so it kinda got me fired up about usin' the 4R. Sounds like I might just oughta check on what the 4R gearset might cost to put in the AOD. Then again, it's an AOD, not an AODE.
In the long run, ya think it might be better to just swap wiring/computer etc into the '91 body and use the 4R w/AOD goodies like originally planned? That way, I could keep the damper etc on the '94 engine I'm puttin' in the car.

any input appreciated,

'bird

XxSlowpokexX
05-08-2005, 02:39 PM
94/95 trannies are junk....Seriously. The gearset isnt that strong in those year trannys either...You can however swap that gearset into your aod.......Besides that nothing else from the AOD will work....

I say keep teh AOD and you would need a electronic processor to control teh 94/95 tranny if you decided to try that

92bird
05-08-2005, 05:45 PM
The wide ratio gearset is much stronger than the AOD gearset..

Wynn, I am doing this for Ron, a local SC guy right now.. We gathered the necessary internal parts from a 1999 5.4L F-150. He's going to be using an off-the shelf lentech valve body (tuned for factory AOD lockup in 3rd and 4th via lockup shaft), as well as all the 2" OD band upgrade, mechanical diode, updated planetary roller clutch, and forced tailshaft lube mod.

The 4R70W transmission when properly built and properly controlled (chip re-flash, or stand alone system) is superior to any AOD.. The stand-alone Baumman controller is just that, a stand alone system.. It is meant to be used to convert a 5 speed to an automatic, or for a non-electronic AOD car.

The only complaints I have heard about it were people that tried to tie it in with their electronically controlled system (such as 94+ thunderbirds and mustangs).

XxSlowpokexX
05-08-2005, 06:11 PM
The wide ratio gearset is much stronger than the AOD gearset..

The 94/95 gearsets arnt worth the trouble....Teh 94/95 tranny isnt worth teh trouble

Save yourself some time and find a 99 and up v6 stang tranny..They can be had cheap and are a MUCH improved version of teh 94/95...From gearset...To case...To valvebody...

Or just use the AOD you have and leave it alone:O)

My worked aod held up to 748 rwhp:O)

XxSlowpokexX
05-08-2005, 06:15 PM
I blew up 3 worked 94 trannies BTW...No mechanical diode though

92bird
05-08-2005, 06:32 PM
No mechanical diode though

That's why you blew them up :)

A modified high torque engine puts a lot of stress on that one way roller clutch, and it is multiplied with the wide ratio gearset. That's why Ford started putting the ratcheting one way clutch, aka "Mechanical Diode", in the 1998 model year 4R70W's from the factory.

The pre '96 valve bodies leave a lot to be desired also, and had accumulator problems.

Since we cannot use a 4R70W from a 4.6L or 5.4L due to the different bellhousing pattern, Damon is correct in his suggestion. A 1998+ v6 mustang transmission is a good start. With only a few minor valve body tweaks, its good for 500 rwhp (so I'm told).

XxSlowpokexX
05-08-2005, 07:48 PM
I hope its good for 500 or so:O)

Kurt K
05-08-2005, 11:39 PM
The stand-alone Baumman controller is just that, a stand alone system.. It is meant to be used to convert a 5 speed to an automatic, or for a non-electronic AOD car.

The only complaints I have heard about it were people that tried to tie it in with their electronically controlled system (such as 94+ thunderbirds and mustangs).

I can tell you from personal experience, the the Baumannator controller will not work with an SC, period. If you have the old Charging Thunders, you can read about my ordeal :mad: Bottom line: Baumann uses throttle position to determine line pressure, but since the SC makes so much low-end torque, the clutches just can't hold with the line pressure that is too low.

92bird
05-08-2005, 11:43 PM
Kurt, any more info?? I'm curious because we had it in the back of our minds to use the TCS for a local guy's project SC..

Why can't the line pressure be adjusted? Is it not a function of the program?

Kurt K
05-09-2005, 08:24 AM
Kurt, any more info?? I'm curious because we had it in the back of our minds to use the TCS for a local guy's project SC..

Why can't the line pressure be adjusted? Is it not a function of the program?
Unfortunately, I don't have the details, as it was something like 6 or 8 years ago and a shop in GA was doing the work. All I know is that after they rebuilt the 4R70W like 8 times, they finally admitted defeat. After 11 months, I went and picked up my same broken transmission car.

Maybe they've made improvements to the Baumannator since then, but I'll never know because I won't ever be trying that again.

And just so you don't think this is an anomaly, I'm not the only guy on this site that tried and failed using the Baumannator. I'm sure you can do a search and find more threads regarding this.

AnnivSpeCpe
05-09-2005, 01:13 PM
Gearset for gearset there isn't any diff in the strength between the aod and 4R70W. The better one-way mechanical diode and the 2" od band are improvements that can be individually changed into the aod. The 4R70W has a lower first gear ratio and more evenly spaced ratios between gears. There is one major improvement in the strength of the 4R70W in that it locks up the torque converter electronically within the tc. This gets rid of the weak two- piece input shaft arrangement of the aod.
Kurt, your experience is just what I remember about the Baumanator from several years ago and to this date I've not learned of any improvements. John

92bird
05-09-2005, 02:13 PM
Gearset for gearset there isn't any diff in the strength between the aod and 4R70W.

Not entirely true! Caged needle bearings are used in all 4R70W planetaries, bronze bushings in 96+, and indeed a stronger gearset in all 5.4L applications.

See Jerry Wroblewski's article below:

http://tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/page7.shtml

I can attest from personal experience, an AOD gearset with 100k miles on it seems to always have more wear on the bushings and seems sloppier than some of the newer 4R70W gearsets with 100k miles I've rebuilt.

Randy N Connie
05-09-2005, 02:18 PM
AUTOTRANS They are all junk. BUT LENTEC you might get a couple hundred miles from it.

Thats if a TX car EVEN HAS enough horse to tare one up. :D

RANDY

Andy 94SC
05-09-2005, 04:52 PM
To chime in on the Baumannator, before I heard of Kurt's troubles with it, I tried using one to put a '94 4R70W into a '89 SC. The trans was smoked within 40 miles of driving.

I e-mailed Je... Wro..... about it. In short he said the baumannator was a P.O.S. In longform he explained that it was because the Baumannator determines line pressure only from throttle position. This seems to be true, when you program the Baumannator you have a graph of line pressure Vs throttle position that you can adjust. There are no other provisions for input considerations on the line pressure adjustment.

In contrast the Ford EEC only modulates pressure during a shift, for feel, then ramps up to full pressure when the gear is engaged, no matter what the throttle position is.

As mentioned, since the SC can make so much torque at partial throttle, you end up burning clutches while cruising in gear with partial line pressure.