Need Help with AOD info

beeturbo

Registered User
i have a 90 SC , i believe that the overdrive band has failed because it neutrals out on the 3-4 shift to od.. and will not pull in 4thgear.. im wondering if there is a band adjustment for it or am i looking at a rebuild?
2ndly ive found that there are 2 dayco torque converters for the aod
F52 (high stall) for 6cyl,& 302
F52LS(low stall) for 351w.
in the past i owned an 84 f-150 w/3:55 gears! where i installed a 351w & aod police interceptor from an 86 police crownvic, at that time i installed a new F52LS converter! 2 weaks prior id pulled my dads chevy fullsize van home and the truck strained like hell with the 302.. but after swapped engines and torque converter.. the next week i borrowed a friends car trailer it was a tandem axle steel trailer with steel reinforced wood floor and i used it to haul an 84 corvette. id say the combination of both weighed probably about as much as the chevy van did if not more. and i pulled the vette on the trailer in drive 70-75 mph (3000-3400) rpms all the way back about 30 miles
and didnt seem to give a dam about the weight though the heat gauge climbed almost 3/4 .. does anyone have an idea as to how the supercoupe would perform with the lo stall converter . i guess what im asking would it come out of the hole better and be quicker off line ..
3rd and finally when replacing the new trans im going to install the transgo AOD-HP shift kit,HD2-3 accumulator, and the Superior A+ overdrive servo anyone try any of these products yet if so please tell me what i can expect as 4 as shift feel especially from the a= servo.
i know im asking :confused: alot but i really value all input and replies ..
 
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Many people choose to get a higher stall converter for better performance, can't say I've ever heard of anyone going for a lower stall. It really depends on your cam and engine, where the power band is, etc. In my case I went with 2400 stall, which is quite a bit higher than stock, but the lowest I could get on a 9.5" converter. Smaller converters can remove a lot of rotating weight from the driveline, this is good. But they also generate a lot of heat, this is bad, so you need a big external cooler.

I don't know the Dayco brand, but if it's not a "performance" converter I'd stay away from it. If you're going to all the trouble of replacing it, might as well get a good one. Check out Lentech, Art Carr, TCI, B&M, they all have a variety of converters for the AOD. I would also recommend getting a hardened input shaft, the solid one is strongest, but you can also get a hardened two-piece shaft that will retain the factory lockup. I have a non-lockup converter and solid shaft, and while this is the most bulletproof combination, I'm not sure how much I like it on the freeway. I really like the non-lockup in 3rd/D (that is a huge improvement) but not so much in OD, you don't need it there anyway, so it can be annoying.
 
You need to upgrade the band to a 2 inch wide model. To do this you'll have to buy a new reverse drum and a shell. Don't buy a DACCO torque converter.
If you want a stock replacement PM me and I'll see what I can come up with for ya. If you have any other questions I know a little about these tranny's feel free to PM me.
Alan
 
Dirtyd0g said:
You need to upgrade the band to a 2 inch wide model. To do this you'll have to buy a new reverse drum and a shell. Don't buy a DACCO torque converter.
If you want a stock replacement PM me and I'll see what I can come up with for ya. If you have any other questions I know a little about these tranny's feel free to PM me.
Alan

I agree, I use the bigger reverse drum with larger OD band!

I used the internals form a 4R70W in my AOD rebuild, which came with the bigger reverse drum. I also used a kevlar OD band, which I am told generates a little more heat during the OD shift, but I have an external cooler as well.

I like the gears, its like having shorter gears down lowl, but cruise is still reasonable.

For the shift kit, I used the baumann recal kit... May want to look them up www.becontrols.com, they specialize in AODs....

As far as the "A servo," they are talking about the supercoupe servo (also found in some Licolns), unless there is a new one??? It is often recomended for other vehicles to receive the ford part numbered supercoupe OD servo, for more durability.

This is part of the reason getting an AAMCO swap is bad, because you may get a non-sc tranny, without the A servo, and with a different cal on the valve body.

Depending on your reving requiremnts, and power curve, etc; the baumann shift kit can chage shift points also, in addition to firming up shifts. I have mine set to "medium shifts" across the board and I would call them firm to hard myself. I don't notice it much once used to it, but when other folsk ride, they're like WOW, this thing shift shard!

I sound like I'm advertising for Baumann, but one of the guys over there helped me out TONS throughout the process of rebuidling mine!

Rebuilding yourself is not too bad. I just carried the drums to a local shop, where they used the installation sleeves to fit the pistons back in the drum. The guy didn't want but $5.00, and did it while I waited.

Good luck!


OH By the way folks!
I am still looking for the complete dummy guide on pros/cons of lockup vs non-lockup, and what the stall converter speed really means, and how to select a converter, etc.... If anyone can find it, please direct me to it!

Thanks!
 
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sizemoremk said:
I am still looking for the complete dummy guide on pros/cons of lockup vs non-lockup, and what the stall converter speed really means, and how to select a converter, etc.... If anyone can find it, please direct me to it!

Thanks!


All you had to was ask. I rarely suggest direct drive on aod's the only time it should be used is when you want a really nice 60foot (very high stall) and don't care about after 2nd gear. The shift to 3rd with direct drive and a high stall converter is well weird. I think I have the perfect combination for these supercoupes using a no direct drive 11 inch torque converter set to stall about 2400.
Alan
 
thanks fellas 4 all the input . i will consider the hardened 2 piece input shaft .i really wanna try and rebuild it myself im familiar with valve bodies and shift kit installation band adjust ments and etc.. but never torn down a trans b4. my super coupe is stock but the exhaust has been opened up a bit with flomasters and no cats lol.. im going to install a 10% overdrive pulley on the super charger and maybe underdrive pulleys as well.. ive got a set of fuel injectors from an 89 ford truck 460 fuel injected v-8 im not sure how many lbs the injectors are but they're kinda light blue. any one has a clue what size they are let me know?.. im thinking of installing them when i replace the head gaskets .. they re blown right now and so ive gotta replace head gaskets and trans both..i cant seem to find anyone that makes a performance cam for our cars so im thinking of just adding 1.6 or 1.7 roller rockers. as 4 as the stall converter i'll im leaning toward a b&m 2000 or 2400 stall with lockup.. justwondering what the performance and overall feel will be like with the 2.will it they be lazy on take off form a stand still on lite to mid throttle or will it wake up the car a bit . wit either stall only mods im thinking of is the fuel injectors from the 460 and matching airflow meter once i figureout what size the injectors are, 75mm throttle body, k&n filter, 10% overdrivepulley, under drive pulleys, raised blower topp and maybe a power module performance chip 160 thermostat.and intercooler fan.. also b4 i forget the oil pressure at idle is stands mid way of the gauge though i do like higher oil pressure and knowone seems to carry a high volume pump .. does anyone know if the pressure relief spring can be changed or does an assortment come in an oil pump rebuild kit .. any suggestions fellas id like the oil pressure to lean more near 3/4 mark when accelerating and at least 1/2 or better at idle . im open to all suggestions and responses appreciated ..
 
IMO a hardened 2 piece shaft is a waste of time. When you get to the point of breaking shafts get the one piece shaft. I really hate to bring it up but beware the b&m converters. They like to butcher the stator which makes an inefficient yet high stall converter that never hooks up right. The only units I would suggest would be the Art Carr, PI, Lentech or my personal favorite one built by me :).
Alan
 
Your oil pressure guage is not accurate at all, I think its more like an on/off switch. There is an articel in the "SC literature" link on the opening sccoa page, look towards the bottom to see the howto on convering your oil pressure guage, I'm gonna do this on the engine I'm building right now...

There is a high voume oil pump, available at summit, and prolly elsewhere. I think the late model 94-95 SC oil pumps are all higher volume. The one I am about to install is supposidly from the late model 94-95 SC, and the pump is bigger, and has 8 teeth per gear, where my smaller 89-93 pump has 7 gears. Dave Dalke put a part number up in a recent post about oil pressure, use the search function or look at the last couple of days posts in the tech section for a post about oil pressure. Also, if you swap oil pumps, mind the oil pump mating surface on the timing cover, it can become scored and casue problems from what I've read. You may have to have the surface machined, or install a new timing cover.

Rebuiding an AOD isn't that bad, but take lots of pics on disassembly ;) I took pics as I took each part out, to insure I could remeber what order things went in. A hayes ford trannny or ford shop manual will help. The first AOD I built was with the help of an HAYES ford tranny manual from autozone; and it was surpirisingly good. When I lost it, I used my ford shop manual on my other AOD build, it seemed like exactly what was in the Hayes manual. All I needed was a nice pair of snapring pliers to do the job.

These stock fuel injectors are 30 pounders on the 89-93 SCs, and I doubt the stock 460 injectors are any bigger. I'd make sure before using them! 5.0 HO stangs only had 19lbs injectors....

A company called "professional products" now makes a 75mm SC throttle body, they are a bit cheaper than bbk/edlebrock units, and others have reported good results with them. They also have an adustment to set the TPS so that it idles correctly. I have one of these in the garage as well.

There certainly are some performance cams available for these cars; comp, and crane both make one I believe (aint on their websites, but they have one if you call them up), and a user here on sccoa called "catwithboost" can also set you up with a good cam and valvesprings to match, and at great prices. Look him up! I have his cam, and a few others do also. I haven't built my new engine yet, but it's at the machine shop getting ready! The cam got is 210/220 with .531 .539 lift with 114 LSA.

As for the 10% pulley, I'm in hot and humid Alabama, and the 10% doesn't do much for power once the vehicle is up to temp, even in 60-70 degree weather, just too much heat when the compartment gets heat soaked. I would put a stock or 5% back on it, but I am just about to order a double intercooler, which will hopefully wake up the 10% pulley. The cars with double ICs, or even the big front mount ICs have alot less probelms keeping intake temps down. WIth the 10% pulley, and any mods, you will be fighting detonation without the double IC. Look around, these double ICs are available from a few different folks here. I think I'd do a double IC before much else.

Hope my input helps, but use the search function! Its your friend ;)
 
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thanks sizemoremk!! so ure saying that i wouldnt need any special tools to build my aod just a pair of snap ring pliers i thik i'll get the book from autozone and read up on it myself
 
beeturbo said:
thanks sizemoremk!! so ure saying that i wouldnt need any special tools to build my aod just a pair of snap ring pliers i thik i'll get the book from autozone and read up on it myself

Thats exactly what i'm saying. But I forgot to mention towels!!!! ITs messy :D

You will see the piston seal installers in the book, on my first build (in my Town Car), I used some "transparancy film" to get them installed. But the second build, (my 35th tbird") I just carried the drums to a local shop, and had the guy there use the seal installers to get em in... liek I said earlier, he didn;t want but 5.00 bucks.

A quick note, make sure to count the number of steel and friction plates in the drums, and in what order they go in, what side of the pressure plate goes down, etc...

Count them for sure, as not all AODs have the same number of clutches, the rebuild kits sometimes short you a plate or two, requiring you to take one to a trany shop and having them match it up with one of their spares.... another $0.00-5.00 item. Was charged once, and the other time he just gave me one.

Keeep in mind though, that some of the tranny shops don;t want to help, and frown on a regular joe getting into a transmission. The first guy I talked to got irate and about flew off the handle when I asked him his opinion about swappping in the 4R70W gearset. He said :mad: "those parts don't belong in an AOD!!! When you start swapping parts around you;re asking for trouble!!!!"

Good luck!

If you gimmie your email address, I'll email soe preview pics of what all is in there, I've got tons of em!
 
Ok Sizemoremk.. I Sent U A Private Message Wit The Info ..i Guess Im Gonna Ook Forward To The Messof Tare;n N2 The Aod Just Kinda Fear It Bewing My First Having To Pu;ll It Out Again .. If I Wanna Put The Wide Ratio Gear Set In What Type Cars Can I Find That Particular Transmission In I Know Ita An Aode But Is It A Particular Year Or Model Or Do All Of Them Have The Lower Gears..?
 
beeturbo said:
Ok Sizemoremk.. I Sent U A Private Message Wit The Info ..i Guess Im Gonna Ook Forward To The Messof Tare;n N2 The Aod Just Kinda Fear It Bewing My First Having To Pu;ll It Out Again .. If I Wanna Put The Wide Ratio Gear Set In What Type Cars Can I Find That Particular Transmission In I Know Ita An Aode But Is It A Particular Year Or Model Or Do All Of Them Have The Lower Gears..?

you want a 96 or later 4r70w. 5.4 vehicles had a stronger gearset but that is probably overkill for an aod. If the gearset has alot of miles on it you will likely need to replace the sun gears.
Alan
 
Mine came ot of late 90s crown Vicki, and It been runing strong for about a year and a few thousand miles.

I am worried about the strength once I get my new engine built.. I'm gonna be running all the boltsons, and some N20, so if it breaks something, I have another regular AOD I can build up again...

The wide ratio kit may or may not be something you want.

1st and 2nd are a bit shorter, but 3rd is the same and 4th is close to the same. So its about equal to swapping to 4.11s in first, so i've been told... but there is a big jump from 2-3, which I believe hurts my 1/8th mile times, you see, all we have is a 1/8th mile strip. My little brother said it even looks like I slow down towards the end when I shift... May not have been as bad if I'd been doing the AOD shuffle, but it was my first run and I was looking for consitancy for a baseline at the time....

I drive alot of highway, and didn't want to go with the 3.37s because I drove 50-60 miles to school, and work 20 miles away, and the tranny was already broke... So at the time I decided that the 4R70W gears would be the best of both worlds... You don't have to swap to the wide ratio just to get the bigger OD band by the way.

Someone els emay chime in on some more pros and cons of the wide ration set...

If you send me your email address, i can prolly forward you some pics, and even some of the email traffic had with Baumann's shop during the build.

Take care, and let me know if I can help with your build!
 
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