Former GTP owner interested in Tbird SC's!!

Ultra Magnus

Registered User
Hey guys, nice clean site you have here. My name is Kevin and I'm a former GTP owner, former meaning I crashed mine in January and I didn't have gap so I am limping through life in a '91 Trans Am. Not as fast as a GTP, but tons more fun to drive and has t-tops. GTP's are pretty responsive to mods, I was in the mid-13's for under $350. Not bad, not the norm, but I am a tuner and on a college budget. Sometimes it's better to be on a budget just so you don't just throw $1k's of dollars to drop .3 in the 1/4, you know?

Anyway, I've always wanted to know more about Fords 3.8SC engine. Give me some info, any stock dyno #'s? What do smaller pullies yeild as far as hp & torque. Are they underrated like GTPs are? I'm not here to bash at all, I just want honest answers, because I miss my GTP but I love rwd and I have always loved the way the Tbirds look. I am a GM fan, never owned anything but GM, but my mom had a Taurus and some buddies have some Mustangs. But the interior of the Tbirds is pretty nice.

So while I look for more info, give me whatever you can on these beasts. I look forward to coming here more often.

Thanks, Kevin
 
I don't think you will be able to get in the mid 13s for $350.00
with bolt-ons.The SC Thunderbird is the most expensive car
that I have ever owned and tried to modified.

Do you like the new GTOs.I looked at one today at a chevy
dealer for the first time.I did not like the outside looks,
but the inside looked nice .I liked the motor and drive train setup.

There are others on this board that own both SC Birds and the GTP.
They may see your post and give a good comparison between
the two in performance and cost than I could possibly do.

Thanks Randy
 
dont do it, you'll just buy one and realize how crappy Fords are :rolleyes: , Buy a 94?? or whatever year the Bonevilles had the M90s in them and go from there, this way you'll only have problems with spinning a rod bearing or blowing a trans or expensive HUD (heads up display) bugs to worry about :D
 
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Nice how SC owners have nothing good to say about their cars. :cool: Seriously though, for me it would all hinge on finding a nice car to begin with. Avoid high mileage or rusty examples. If you find a nice one they can be quite rewarding.

For example I tuned a car for a member yesterday that he got for under $1000. It was solid with no rust and looked pretty good. He had a home made double IC w/ fan, bigger TB and MAF, decent exhaust, OD pulleys, late model blower and a couple other things. His car made 250rwhp and would most likely run 14.0's all day long. That's about what you can expect for a decently modest investment.

Anything quicker than that starts to cost money.
 
What is your stock pulley size? I read in one of your magazine articles that stock boost is 12lbs and it makes 230hp and 330tq, at least from 94-95, right?

That sounds funny that you guys can't make it into the 13's for less than $500. You guys should have at least 2 advantages over the GTP for good times, and that is RWD traction and better gearing. GTP's, at least the 97-03 models, are only offered 2.93's. And Tbirds don't weigh much more than a 3600lb GTP, so weight can't be an issue.

Again, I'm not bragging or mocking you guys whatsoever. I just want to know more. And another thing, I can't find a single Tbird SC here in Phx, let alone a 94-95 in good shape and decent miles. So it seems I have plenty of time to gain info before I buy one.

Good stuff, keep it coming.

-Kevin
 
Ultra Magnus said:
What is your stock pulley size? I read in one of your magazine articles that stock boost is 12lbs and it makes 230hp and 330tq, at least from 94-95, right?

That sounds funny that you guys can't make it into the 13's for less than $500. You guys should have at least 2 advantages over the GTP for good times, and that is RWD traction and better gearing. GTP's, at least the 97-03 models, are only offered 2.93's. And Tbirds don't weigh much more than a 3600lb GTP, so weight can't be an issue.

Again, I'm not bragging or mocking you guys whatsoever. I just want to know more. And another thing, I can't find a single Tbird SC here in Phx, let alone a 94-95 in good shape and decent miles. So it seems I have plenty of time to gain info before I buy one.

Good stuff, keep it coming.

-Kevin

the heada and cam are better in the gtp , the intercooler aintmuch help , the irs suspension aint the best one for drag racing and a lot more things.
 
Stock SC birds weight around 4200lbs

The SC Cougar weight is a little less.This is because
of all the air between the drivers ears.
:D just kidding sparky.
 
SC weight

I am curious if you have actually weighed your car or is 4200 lbs just what you have been told. I pulled on the scale at Houston Raceway Park in mine a couple of weeks ago and with me (190 lbs) in the drivers seat was only 3970 lbs. It is a 95 auto with leather, moonroof, stock 16" wheels with 245 tires, extra stereo equipment, so I am wondering where the big difference in weight would come from.

Randy N Connie said:
Stock SC birds weight around 4200lbs

The SC Cougar weight is a little less.This is because
of all the air between the drivers ears.
:D just kidding sparky.
 
Even with an intercooler I think my smaller pulley is hurting me. I am on a stock ECU non tuned. It has a 2.85" pulley on it and a stock intercooler. I think this blower is just so inefficient that its creating way to much heat and the intercooler can't cool the air charge, then its either going to knock or see really high intake air temps and retard the timing and lose power. The intake air temp sensor is located in the return plenum after the intercooler right about where the air flows into the intake manifold so it knows how hot the air charge is and tells the computer which then decides when to adjust (advance or retard) the timing. I run 91-93 octane religiously.

Mine is a 10% overdrive pulley.
 
83GT460 said:
I am curious if you have actually weighed your car or is 4200 lbs just what you have been told. I pulled on the scale at Houston Raceway Park in mine a couple of weeks ago and with me (190 lbs) in the drivers seat was only 3970 lbs. It is a 95 auto with leather, moonroof, stock 16" wheels with 245 tires, extra stereo equipment, so I am wondering where the big difference in weight would come from.

83GT460
When I first got my 1990 SCthunderbird with auto trans,full tank
of gas with me in the car.My cars Wt. was 4180 around this Wt.
I don't remember the exact Wt.So I have always just rounded
it of to 4200 lbs.And my wt. was at the time 296lbs.I weighed
the car at a truck stop scales.And I and some tools in the trunk.

I havent wieghed it lately but its much lighter.It sets about 1/2
inch higher now.because of some lighter parts.I still need to
install my fiberglass doors and trunk lid.This should take another
150lbs+ off.I plan and hope to get it down to around 3200lbs
when finish.

I don't remember my pullies diameter.I run a 10% overdrive
on the blower,And sometimes a 5% overdrive on the jackshaft,
and a little overdrive from the aluminum crank shaft pulley.
I have no idea what boost I am running,my guage only gos to
15lbs.


Thanks Randy
 
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Ultra Magnus said:
What is your stock pulley size? I read in one of your magazine articles that stock boost is 12lbs and it makes 230hp and 330tq, at least from 94-95, right?
89-93 is 3.15" and 94-95 is 3.25"

That sounds funny that you guys can't make it into the 13's for less than $500.
Lets see, car is at least 200lbs heavier, motor makes 30 less HP to begin with, and due to the convoluted intake sytem, upgrades are complex and spendy. Those are good reasons it costs more to go fast in an SC.
You guys should have at least 2 advantages over the GTP for good times, and that is RWD traction and better gearing. GTP's, at least the 97-03 models, are only offered 2.93's. And Tbirds don't weigh much more than a 3600lb GTP, so weight can't be an issue.
Neither of those create an advantage in the 13-14 second range. A GTP with DR's will hook up just fine at that power level. When a car has a flat torque curve such as these do, gears do not make much of a difference in 1/4 mile times.

Buying an SC for 1/4 mile performance is a mistake. Buying one for the purpose of enjoying a torky RWD coupe would be a smart move.

250rwhp is pretty easy to obtain. Any more than that is going to cost you.
 
1997 Grand Prix in on trade

I weighed my bone stock 1990 SC without me in it. I had a 80 lb sub box in the trunk mounted just under the rear seat shelf. A whopping 4250 lbs. This weight came from a weigh scale at the grain terminal, so I weighed it at the truck scale just outside of Regina. It came in at 4220, again, without me in it. I got a pic of the digits lighted up with my car but it isn't real clear.
If I have it straight, the GTP is a front wheel drive car. On regular street application radials, a front wheel drive should have the traction advantage because of the engine weight. My dad's dealership just got a 1997 Grand Prix GTP in on trade for an 05 Mustang V6 convertible. I went by it today and it looks in good shape. I don't know the exact specs on these cars but the SC is definitely one of my favorites so far, even though it yet has nil mods on it. Weight is definitely a factor, as well, the converter on the AOD tranny on the GTP probably has a higher locking factor than most AOD stock trannys on the SC.
 
XR7 Dave said:
Nice how SC owners have nothing good to say about their cars. :cool:
Yeah, they all only own early models too. :p

Get a '94/'95 SC and tear it up! I will say that SCs aren't as mod responsive as GTPs mostly due to weight, but I love my SC, I love the mad torque it makes, I love rear wheel drive, I love the way it looks, it handles nicely, etc. It's an awesome car. Granted it's a valid point to say they aren't perfect, I mean it seems everyone blows headgaskets, motor mounts and what have you, but to me it's so worth it. :cool:
 
I forgot to mention, when I weighed the car, it also only had a 1/4 tank of gas in it. Yes, I do agree, these cars the bomb when it comes to the ride and handling. Think of it this way, a wider stance, longer wheel base, somewhat of a heavy car. These things are awesome when you consider the 232 cubic inch V6 pulling a 4200 lb car from 0-60 in less than 7 secs. The thing is, you cannot compare these cars to cars made today. When I graduate university, I plan to work for Ford as an engineer. And just for all those SC enthusiasts out there, I plan to design an all new supercoupe, using the same guidelines from the original 89-95 designs, except with all modern computer systems that are finely tuned, lighter weight material in the body and frame, super exhaust systems, and one hell of a blower. Let's see, a 3.8 Litre DOHC 24 valve with super high output ports and increased intercooling capacity. What do you figure, pushin 350 horses and 35 MPG. We'll see but that's the plan. Who knows, by the time I graduate, gasoline could be obsolete. One thing for sure, I will NOT install one of them cheezy Heads Up Displays like in the GTP, what a pain when your cruisin the highway.
 
Ultra Magnus said:
Hey guys, nice clean site you have here. My name is Kevin and I'm a former GTP owner, former meaning I crashed mine in January and I didn't have gap so I am limping through life in a '91 Trans Am. Not as fast as a GTP, but tons more fun to drive and has t-tops. GTP's are pretty responsive to mods, I was in the mid-13's for under $350. Not bad, not the norm, but I am a tuner and on a college budget. Sometimes it's better to be on a budget just so you don't just throw $1k's of dollars to drop .3 in the 1/4, you know?

Anyway, I've always wanted to know more about Fords 3.8SC engine. Give me some info, any stock dyno #'s? What do smaller pullies yeild as far as hp & torque. Are they underrated like GTPs are? I'm not here to bash at all, I just want honest answers, because I miss my GTP but I love rwd and I have always loved the way the Tbirds look. I am a GM fan, never owned anything but GM, but my mom had a Taurus and some buddies have some Mustangs. But the interior of the Tbirds is pretty nice.

So while I look for more info, give me whatever you can on these beasts. I look forward to coming here more often.

Thanks, Kevin

What mods did you do for under $350? Just a d/p and pulley cost that much.
 
holy el crap-o, i can't believe u guyz didn't menchen the BIGGEST thing the SC's have over the GTP's......... that shifter option that goes side to side and up and down with the 3rd pedal instead of only having 2 pedals with a shifter that goes straight up and down and clicks.......

5 SPEED BABY!!!!!!! I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend a 5 speed, i almost put my new moter in an auto SC, then i bought an 89 5 speed and threw a rod bearing blowing donuts in a parking lot, put the engine in that and have never regreted it. I like it that you can put the rpm's right where u want em, and leave 40+ feet of rubber in second gear with a nice power shift :)
 
LightEMup said:
holy el crap-o, i can't believe u guyz didn't menchen the BIGGEST thing the SC's have over the GTP's......... that shifter option that goes side to side and up and down with the 3rd pedal instead of only having 2 pedals with a shifter that goes straight up and down and clicks.......
That was presumed. ;)
 
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