Ontario Club - an observation......

[fturner]

First off, I made a post the other night and it was a little harsh, and if I offended anyone I apologize as that was not my intention.......

The SCCOA is a fantastic resource for information on our cars, and if it had not been for this resourse I don't think my car would be running right now..... so I do appreciate being a member here. There is a trend though that I have noticed that concerns myself about where the future of the SCCOO and its forum, and how it will affect the membership.

I have read a lot of old posts in the SCCoO when I was doing research on my car, and "in the day" you could feel the enthusiam of all the members. A person brand new to the club and the thunderbird would post with a problem and within hours everyone was offering suggestions and even offering to come out and turn a wrench. When I saw that I said to myself I had to be a member here.

I've been a member since last November and I have watched support and enthusiam from the "ole timers" dwindle. I mean it still exists if your an "ole" timer around here but even that has dwindled. A newbie posts a question, and generally its another newbie ends up answering, with very little response from the "old" guys, or even offers to help. Don't get me wrong, as I know we all have lives to live, and in my case I live out in the boonies so I don't expect people to come out to turn a wrench. I am not the only that has noticed this as the former owner of my car even noticed this as well.

Because of this, new folks just look here and go.... "hhhmmmmm whats the point" and then end up going elsewhere, which does not help our membership. An example of what I'm talking about is in regards to me having to do head gaskets. Out of all the members here, the only person that offered me tips and encouragement to keep going when I was frustrated to the nine's was Sean, and I just ended up annoying Sean using Messenger instead of using the forums...... Now I've got experience working on cars and rebuilding motors so this doesn't matter much to me, but what about the new guy that doesn't have that experience but wants to get his hands dirty...... Well I guess he just goes somewhere else, because that enthusiam is not around here anymore.

Now before you get all angry with me etc.... I ask that you go back a couple of years (no not a couple of pages back) and read the posts back then, then compare it to what is happening now.

There is alot of knowledge and experience in the Ontario membership, but it is starting to go to waste now as the folks with this knowledge seem to have lost interest in the club. Where's the enthusiam for our unique cars?..... Where's the want to help a new guy out, even with just some tips and words of encouragment etc?

This can be a great club, not just a good club, and if we want to keep our cars alive for years to come, we have to take a little time and encourage the new guys to push through and keep going, and even do that again amongst the "ole timers".

Anyway, I'll step off the soap box now as I've said my peace.

Now LETS MAKE THE ONTARIO CHAPTER THE BEST OUT THERE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frit

[SeanMatteson]

...and I just ended up annoying Sean using Messenger instead of using the forums.

Fraser, I was happy to be able to help you through this, and I only regret that I couldn't make the time to come out to your place and help you with the actual wrenching. It seems lately I haven't even had the time to do much of that on my own car. You were/are not an annoyance, pal.

Now LETS MAKE THE ONTARIO CHAPTER THE BEST OUT THERE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen!

I'm not quite sure what's going on to make this the case, but it seems the enthusiasm of this club has died in the past couple of years. Yes, we all have lives outside of the club, and people have grown up (Read: husbands/wives and kids becoming more demanding), and some good people have moved on. That's just life, and I don't think anything can be done to stop the phenomenon. However, those of us who still love these cars, and more importantly, who love this community need to stick together and work to keep things going.

Reading Fraser's post here made me take a look back (No, I didn't go back and read the old posts as Fraser suggested, mainly because seeing how many of them were mine might give me reason to believe my wife when she says I'm nuts!), back to the first year that I became involved here. Bill McNeil was still struggling to get his timeslip under 15s.

I remember a cold October morning with a bunch of us up at Cayuga Dragway before it became TMP! At that time, I still had never run my car down the 1/4 mi! That day I had Noah with me, and he was only a little over 2 y/o! The poor kid went to sleep in the car, which I had running just to keep him warm. The point is, there have been a lot of really good times!

I remember back to Bill McNeil blowing my HG's on a cold January night after he and Krista joined Alecia and I for dinner out at our place. ...Of course, I paid him back by lifting the heads on his motor at St. Thomas the next Summer!

I remember a Spring only a couple years back when we did about three sets of HG's (Les, Bill, and Paul) in my garage in the span of about 1 month. ...These experiences might not have been as fun as the track days, but we still made the best of them, and it was really a case of a team of people banding together to help each other out.

But enough about my stories, just do as Fraser says and read the old threads from years gone by. You'll get the point.

I think we need to do whatever we can to get that sort of enthusiasm back. Even if there are some older members (like myself) who due to their job and/or their families, can't make it out to every meeting, or dyno day, or track day, we need the rest of the group to pull through and keep things going. Maybe we need to keep pushing for bigger and better club events. I don't know. I'm sure our executive would welcome any and all suggestions, even if we determine that we can't do them all at once! :D

...And to you younger/newer members:

Don't give up on us. If posting on the forums doesn't work right away for you, don't be afraid to PM or email people. There are people willing to help, it just might take a little time for us to respond.

Fraser, thanks for posting what you did. I'll take it as a wake-up call.

Sincerely,

Sean

[fast Ed]

Fraser, I think all of the "old time" members, including myself, have been guilty from time to time of not being as helpful as we could with questions being asked on our chapter forum here.

Please keep in mind too though, that it's best not to rely on this forum alone for technical info. There are a bunch of knowledgeable people here on the Ontario forum, and you've probably noticed that members from all over visit here to post as well, since it's one of the most active chapter boards. But the Technical forum is there for a reason too. Ideally SCCoO people should post up on the Tech forum as well as here, to get more answers, or maybe more complete answers, especially if it's a tough or complicated question.

Club participation will always be cyclical, people coming and going over time as they purchase or sell their car, and / or have other responsibilites or activities come up in their life. I know Sean is an example of someone who would like to be more active in the club, but with a wife and two small children, there is only so much time he can devote to car-related activities. Being single makes it a lot easier for me, I'm the first and last person who decides what I'm doing on the weekend. ;) Also, as our cars get older, there will be less of them around, and it will take a bigger effort to keep the ones that are around, on the road. Let's face it, it's been 10 years since the last Super Coupe rolled off the assembly line at Lorain.

Any other comments on this? This is an issue we should resolve, let's keep the discussion calm and friendly.


cheers
Ed N.

[tbirdsc357]

I am also glad that Fraser posted this. I'm curious to see if there are any other the newer members that feel the same way.

While it may be factual to say that there is not the same participation as a few years back, well, thats a natural part of life. People will lose interest over time.

Many times I have contemplated selling the bird, bored actually, looking for some other project. Stll keeping the bird, just looking for something else.

Perhaps some of the other older members have also lost interest or moved on to other things, so they don't frequent the boards anymore, or it could be that something else in their lives now take a higher priority.

My point is, this is natural, the forum was not very active before Sean, Bill, Andrew, Les, Myself, Ryan and others........joined a few years ago, it's now time for the new guys to take over.

Sean being the exception in terms of enthusiasm....his is always there. :)

[Andrew Wang]

Hey Frit,

Sorry I haven't met you, I think you came out to the Xmas dinner and I couldn't make it cause I had a wicked cough (didn't want to gross out the diners). You seem like a pretty friendly and cool guy so I missed the opportunity to meet you in person. I'm sorry your experience so far has been a little disappointing but as already mentioned people do have lives and other commitments and yes some of the enthusiasm is gone. You being out in Hagersville also doesn't make it easy to come out to meets which is where I think your perceptions may be a little different.

As for me providing a helping hand, do you want your project to turn into a disaster. :D Sorry I'm not mechanically inclined. A better way to approach a call for help and this applies to all new comers as well is come out to a meet or two, introduce yourself (we're pretty friendly group, we are really :D ) and post and invitation ;) to a get your hands dirty party at your place and try and work out scheduling (very important) with people if at all possible.

Hang in there Frit don't give up on the group, I feel like I belong less to a club but rather a group of friends with similar interests.

[fturner]

...........
Hang in there Frit don't give up on the group, I feel like I belong less to a club but rather a group of friends with similar interests.

Hey Andrew,

I have no intentions on giving up on the group :D, which I guess is one of the reasons I posted this as I would hate to see a good group like this fade away into nothing ;).

Frit

[vytas]

HI to All,

Even though I have been a member for quite a while - I have rarely been at meetings. That is not for lack of interest - but in my case, my personal life and job makes it awfully tough. However, I do often visit the various forums - including the technical one - and in most cases am able to find info about my question without having to make a specific post. So in a way - and I guess one point I want to make is - maybe there are less people posting because a lot of the info they are looking for is already there. ( Of course, somtimes I do ask Ed Nicholson a question or two and he has been in every case quick to respond and most helpful).

So I agree with Andrew - I think if one wants to really get into topics with other members and even into and hands on projects with others- the best thing to do is to attend meetings. I am confident that folowing that route one will always find plenty of good adive and help.

Finally, I want to say one more thought - lol - if nothing else I have often been inspired by the nice work others have done on their cars ( by either reading about them or seeing them) - and that has been very important in motivating me to continue to ( slowly to be sure - lol ) work on mine.

Cheers

Vytas

[fturner]

So I agree with Andrew - I think if one wants to really get into topics with other members and even into and hands on projects with others- the best thing to do is to attend meetings. I am confident that folowing that route one will always find plenty of good adive and help.

So for those of us out in the boonies (it easily takes over an hour to drive to the Missisauga meets for me, IF the traffic behaves)...... what are we suppose to do? Just curious :)

Frit

[coolhand]

So for those of us out in the boonies (it easily takes over an hour to drive to the Missisauga meets for me, IF the traffic behaves)...... what are we suppose to do? Just curious :)

Frit
I live in Bowmanville and attend quite a number of meetings, both in the East and the west. I've never considered drive time to be a major factor. If I want to get there, I make the time. My schedule prevents me from attending more often so Ed can make fun of my 4.6(all in good fun, right ED?????), but at every meeting , because like Andrew Wang, my mechanical apptitude is limited, I present my questions, ellicit opinions, and attempt to avoid the 4.6 barbs as much as I can.
I use the TCCOA as a source of info as well, and the Mod forum, as well as a number of other resources. They are all excellent areas to increase your knowledge base. Attending car shows, as a participant or a spectator, and making new contacts has been a lot of fun and enlightening. As a newbie to the Show arena, I have had my old Baby in 4 shows in a very short time. Your area more than likely has a cruise night.
Just my 2cents worth.

[fast Ed]

So for those of us out in the boonies (it easily takes over an hour to drive to the Missisauga meets for me, IF the traffic behaves)...... what are we suppose to do? Just curious :)

Frit

That is one problem we are trying to address. This summer we will have at least one meet in the Hamilton area, to accomodate the large number of members we have in the Hamilton / Burlington / Niagara region.

cheers
Ed N.

[sumzxr7]

Hi,

I've been a member for a couple of years, and I was on the forum long before I had my XR7 (first heard of the site in 2000). Anyways, I always wanted a SC, as it was my dream car when I was in H.S..but in my case ended up getting a tired and worn out XR7 that I bought as my first project car.

Anyways, to make a long story short I know for a fact that with out the help of some of the members on this site, my car would probally be in the scrap yard. Everyone one here has been very helpful and very resourceful.....and like with anything else people's interests fade and spending time with family takes more importance. I don't see interest fading...its just with the cars being as old as they are now --many orignal owners have long since passed on and with the cars being as complex as they are (sc's) some people dont have the energy to bother fixing them, etc..anyways i hope this makes sense ;-)

[fast Ed]

Anyone else? Comments, questions?

You won't be villified on here for stating your opinion, as long as you make a reasonable case for backing it up!! :)


cheers
Ed N.

[HoseHead]

Distance. Plain and simple. An hour would be welcome. Four and change from up here.

I'll get to a few meets this summer, including the week of 11-15 Jul 05.

As SumXR7 stated, I've also gained a wealth of SC knowledge just by reading the posts and heading out to look under my ride. I'd love to help turn wrenches as every job teaches or affirms this knowledge.

It's a fact that we are getting thinner as time goes on, but that's the way the mop flops. Personally, I can't see ever not having an SC after waiting so long to find a good one. Actually, looking for nice automatic now.....

[SeanMatteson]

It's just natural that there will be attrition here in the club. Cars get wrecked occassionally, hopefully without any harm coming to the occupants. Some just get too old and worn out and end up becoming parts to the rest of the club. In some cases, people just get bored of the cars (yeah, it's rare but it does happen). In other cases, people's lives change, and their circumstances may dicate that the cars have to go.

We shouldn't be taking it personally when people move on, for whatever reason. All we can do is hope that those who are left will carry on with building/maintaining this community of enthusiasts. When we can, we need to help each other out. That can be done through simple acts like sharing knowledge or helping to wrench. It can also be done through lending support when members go through tough times in their lives. So long as selfless acts like that carry on, then this club will continue to be great!

Cheers,

Sean

[Greg Coleman]

Well its not that my enthusiasum is not there as much as the disposible income is not there as much due to other needs around the house such as new furniture and big screen tv's,suround sound sytems and a new truck,but I did buy the wife a nice 94 SC!! I used to save my cash during the winter and spend between $2500.00 to $5000.00 every spring on the car for 5 straight years.That gets to be very expensive and as you get older you get to asking yourself is it really worth it?? Well I'm not going to give up on my Cougar as I still want to put an AR blower on my Cougar and bring the 94 up to where my Cougar is now.Ive given up on the idea of doing a big brake upgrade on the Cougar but cross drilled sloted rotors for both will have to do and pollish the Cougar rims and new tires for both and a new paint job for both is in the plans.So as you can see I'm still going to be a busy beaver and a broke one for the next 5 to 6 years!! I have no plans to get rid of either car because of the fact that they both arent every day drivers and this is a big factor.But they do suck the coin!! I can see why the people that do drive them every day get tired of the rushing to mod them and keep them on the road and then have to deal with problems on top of that as it gets frustrating! Plus the fact that baseball takes some of my wednesdays nights now.Either way I dont plan on going anywhere for quite some time and I hope that the guys that do get rid of their SC's keep coming out because they are good people,so what if they dont have their SC's :D :D

[Superbird281]

Anyone else? Comments, questions?

You won't be villified on here for stating your opinion, as long as you make a reasonable case for backing it up!! :)


cheers
Ed N.

I will be here forever because my car is indestructible. I also set the performance benchmarks that club members hope to achieve.

AACK! WEEDS!!! ROUNDUP! Need more ROUNDUP! ...wwwaaayyYYNNNNEEEEEEeeee.....

[SeanMatteson]

I also set the performance benchmarks that club members hope to achieve.

Oh, right. That reminds me...

Another great thing about the members of this club is their sense of humour!

:D

Cheers,

Sean

[phyxius]

i love this board.ed has helped me out a few times when i've been stuck.i would love to get out to the meets but seeing as TO is 5 hrs from me it makes it real hard to attend any of the meets.most of the info though as said can be found on the search.there are getting fewer people out there on the board that offer up hands on expierence.

[johnny o]

I think things have slowed down around here, more people leaving then coming. This is to be expected with the age of the car I think. I still hope I can get another SC and get back in here more! :) I'll never stop reading the SCCOO and SCCOA from time to time. Some of us may have different cars now but I'm sure we are still around here now and then too. If you're a newb around here and don't get an answer try the search, these cars have been around for over 15 years the answer to your question might be too :) Hopefully I'll make it out to a track day with you guys this year!

[lazybird4pt6]

Okay, NOW I can......

As you've mentioned, Frit - take a look at the history of the SCCoO. Go to the SCCoO MAIN PAGE (how many other SCCoA derivitaves have this?) and check out the events page. Look at the events listed in the late '90's (yikes, LATE '90's!!!!!!). Then look at what happened in 2002.

I joined in April '02 (no, i'm not saying I was the reason!). I was there to "see it" happen. There was an explosion! No, i'm not talking about Bill's HG's. :D (sorry, Bill, couldn't resist) It seemed as if everything was right. People had the enthusiasm and were willing to participate. Period. No more discussion there. That's what it really boils down to. There were many weekends where there were 2,3 or even 4 groups of people (!!!) getting together on the SAME weekend to do.... something. HG's, stereo work, brakes, even just washing a bunch of cars at someone's house.

When you have a "crew" of people that are all excited and buzzing around, helping each other out, wanting more this-and-that then you have the making for a great club. Whether it be "old timers" (Les isn't old, just well educated :D ) or "newbies", or even "those poor guys with their LX's" the recipe for success is simply what you put into it. That's also part of the reason i've bowed-out of my position. I can't "give it my all" anymore - i'm not about to ruin it for everyone else.

For what to do about being out in the boonies? Well, unfortunately, that's tougher to provide a remidy for. There seems to be more and more members that AREN'T located in the GTA/somewhat surrounding area (GTASCC anyone? :p ) joining up seasonally. The best suggestion I can give is to harp more for having a meet somewhere closer to you every once in a while.

So, on that note - enthusiam and participation. Let's see more.

As far as wrenching is concerned - my reason for wrenching was my reason. It's now gone - unfortunately so are my "cohorts of the crescent wrench society". Time to "turn the wrench" over - are you up to it? ;) That's something that I think the club needs again. Friends don't let friends wrench alone.

[91_SC_BIRD]

Well, I'm not sure about how active the club was before, but I know it sure helped me alot. I've meet some pretty cool people!! Out of all the guys though, Ryan Harris has been the most helpful, anytime i needed some parts or info, he always had what i needed! The thing I miss the most about not beeing in Toronto is the club. It would be fun to be able to go to a meet, or go to the track. I've just finish swapping in a motor over the long weekend and I think without the club and the info here I would of never even attempted it. I hope that the guys that are there, old or new, will keep it alive for a long time!

[fturner]

.......... There was an explosion! No, i'm not talking about Bill's HG's. :D (sorry, Bill, couldn't resist) It seemed as if everything was right. People had the enthusiasm and were willing to participate. Period. No more discussion there. That's what it really boils down to. There were many weekends where there were 2,3 or even 4 groups of people (!!!) getting together on the SAME weekend to do.... something. HG's, stereo work, brakes, even just washing a bunch of cars at someone's house.

When you have a "crew" of people that are all excited and buzzing around, helping each other out, wanting more this-and-that then you have the making for a great club. Whether it be "old timers" (Les isn't old, just well educated :D ) or "newbies", or even "those poor guys with their LX's" the recipe for success is simply what you put into it. That's also part of the reason i've bowed-out of my position. I can't "give it my all" anymore - i'm not about to ruin it for everyone else..........

.....So, on that note - enthusiam and participation. Let's see more..................


As lazy ;) mentioned above is what I'm talking about.....

As for searching for solutions to problems that several have mentioned.... trust me I'v done my time :eek: searching and once you leaf through all the "garbage" you can most of the time find the answer, but thats really not the issue I was looking at.

If I knew the "excitement" was like it was back in 2002, then I wouldn't have a prob driving into the GTA to help out etc, but when the spirit isn't there, it makes it harder to make that commitment to put a few miles on the wheels.

Anyways........

Frit

[Andrew Wang]

Unfortunately you can't force enthusiasm on people, they either have it or they don't. People can't expect to not participate and then say there's no enthusiasm (not directed at you Frit). The club doesn't even force people to come out to the weekly meets and I've been to some with 3 people including myself (kind of disheartning).
What is a serious issue is we've lost some good people to help out with wrenching. I don't mind helping out, I just need somebody to tell me "don't touch that dumazz" :p Just a warning if more people drop out, I'll end up being the technical expert :eek:

[Kingghost]

Unfortunately you can't force enthusiasm on people, they either have it or they don't. People can't expect to not participate and then say there's no enthusiasm (not directed at you Frit). The club doesn't even force people to come out to the weekly meets and I've been to some with 3 people including myself (kind of disheartning).
What is a serious issue is we've lost some good people to help out with wrenching. I don't mind helping out, I just need somebody to tell me "don't touch that dumazz" :p Just a warning if more people drop out, I'll end up being the technical expert :eek:

Alright, Come to my house, um ca, I um borrow your visa, I could use a nice 4.6 DOHC... um, ya bring your tools, oh ya also a 2003 cobra transmission and such, and ya, a couple buddies, I'll bring my lazy boy and a whip... :)