Price Check Please.. Aisle 5

[fturner]

Ok guys, just got a quote on a new set of Eiback lowering springs for $380 no tax........ is that a good price?

Also, anyone got a part number for the end links that need to be replaced if I go this route.

Frit

[tbirdsc357]

Thats a good price, usually it's around $400 + Taxes.

[lazybird4pt6]

Yup, go for it!

Endlinks;
Rear - the rears are super easy. Get an aftermarket set that are close to what you need (let me know if you know how to measure them - if not i'll go into more detail). You can use the "old fashioned style" that use a rod, sleeve, washers and nuts - same as what you find on Mustangs. Install them and wait for the springs to settle (depends on driving style, distance and about 3.2 million other factors). When they do you can trim some material off the sleeve and then you've compensated for the springs settling. Piece of (cheese)cake!

Fronts - the fronts aren't super easy. Actually, they're a pita. When I had my Eibach's Ed and I did some snooping and I think we found that you could source the pieces from either a Taurus or Ranger. Watch out, though - this might only apply for the later style of spindles. Perhaps Ed can re-fresh the memory?

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!

Just in case - you DON'T need a spring compressor to install either the front or rear springs. Check out posts by Sean Matteson and maybe even myself (?) about this. Key word; Eibach. I used to have stuff about the install I did for Jim Gravelle on my website - but it is no longer.

Front lower spring isolators DO NOT exist - hopefully your old ones are re-useable. If not then Ed and I suspected that one can use aftermarket Mustang isolators that wrap around the spring coil. Specifically ask HIM about this - he'll remember. He can get these. If you want to Gineau pig (sp?) this or not is up to you.

I don't think there's anything left to this. :confused:

[lazybird4pt6]

Ah crap. One more thing - alignment. Use STOCK!!! Don't use the tire-eating TCCoA stuff. Ed RACES his car ont he track and even HE says they're stupid numbers.

Okay, maybe just a little more camber on the front. Just ask him for good numbers.

[HoseHead]

Yup. Just a hint of camber. I'm no Geometrical Engineer and really don't fully understand all apsects of alignment settings. I just had my ride lined up and the wrench guy (an older gentlemen with tons of experience named George) looked at the numbers I brought from the TCCoA site for 1.5" Eibachs and he said they were dog crap. He added a touch of camber. Car drives straighter than Preston Manning and no hint of abnormal tire wear in 7500 kms so far. PZeros stick like glue up through 200 km/hr.

[fturner]

Yup, go for it!

Endlinks;
Rear - the rears are super easy. Get an aftermarket set that are close to what you need (let me know if you know how to measure them - if not i'll go into more detail). You can use the "old fashioned style" that use a rod, sleeve, washers and nuts - same as what you find on Mustangs. Install them and wait for the springs to settle (depends on driving style, distance and about 3.2 million other factors). When they do you can trim some material off the sleeve and then you've compensated for the springs settling. Piece of (cheese)cake!

I think I'll need that info how to measure them up, and that chesse cake sounds good, with strawberries of course ;).

Fronts - the fronts aren't super easy. Actually, they're a pita. When I had my Eibach's Ed and I did some snooping and I think we found that you could source the pieces from either a Taurus or Ranger. Watch out, though - this might only apply for the later style of spindles. Perhaps Ed can re-fresh the memory?

Hhhhhmmmm speaking of Ranger, I happened to have an '88 ranger here that I'm thinking of parting out.... will those endlinks work?

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!

Just in case - you DON'T need a spring compressor to install either the front or rear springs. Check out posts by Sean Matteson and maybe even myself (?) about this. Key word; Eibach. I used to have stuff about the install I did for Jim Gravelle on my website - but it is no longer.

Ok I'll do a search on this forum for that.....

Front lower spring isolators DO NOT exist - hopefully your old ones are re-useable. If not then Ed and I suspected that one can use aftermarket Mustang isolators that wrap around the spring coil. Specifically ask HIM about this - he'll remember. He can get these. If you want to Gineau pig (sp?) this or not is up to you.

I don't think there's anything left to this. :confused:

HHhhhmmmm, I think mine are shot, so maybe I'll have to be the guinea pig :eek:

Thanks Andrew..... I just went and got a quote on new upper control arms with bushings for everything for all the front end, and new ball joints for the bottom as the carquest here in town can't source new lowers for me. About $500 :eek:

Frit

[the-big-e]

I just got mine for about $400.00 installed :D

I took the car in for her final 4 wheel alignment and the mechanic looks over the car and says that it will need a kit to adjust the front camber settings, which I thought was already in spec...... :confused:

I know about the adjustable camber bolts for the rear, but the mechanic wouldn't align my car.....

He said that he has aligned numerous Mustangs and he suggested taking it to a specialist..... :confused:

He might be right as I drive a Thunderbird, not a Mustang :cool:

So, before I take it to the experts for the final alignment, what are the correct / best numbers for camber, caster, toe in?

As of right now, the car drives straight with no tendancy to pull in either direction......

However, the caster is so bad on the rear tires that it is almost like driving on ice....... :eek:

[lazybird4pt6]

Frit - okay, grab a coffe - the idea here is to learn WHY.

The idea with anti-sway bars is that from the factory they are set to be level on the ends. Many people think for some strange reason this has something to do with their geometry, but that's simply not the case. Realistically, you can lower a car and NOT touch the end links and be "fine" - but that's not the issue at hand. Clearance IS! (keep in mind i'm not addressing issues with problems associated with excessive lowering, like 2"!)

So, what's clearance got to do with it? Well, as you drive part of the suspension moves and part of it stays stationary, and the body/chassis moves also. As all this movement takes place the clearance between parts changes - some a lot, some very little. In the rear of an MN12 being dropped 1 - 1.5" you can usually leave the rear endlinks alone. You should check this anyways, but it's not that big of a deal.

The front is a different story. The front anti-sway bar comes close to a few important engine pieces and this should be accounted for, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any great concern from owners as well as no REAL solution from manufacturers of any kind.

So, you can't do much about the front (unless Ed can confirm the Ford-sourced pieces I mentioned earlier - it would be a '96+? Ranger of Taurus). Figures, huh?

The rear we can do something about. My recommendation - install the springs. Drive the car for a few days with the stock endlinks. Then check the level of the anti-sway bar at the ends. This would be the area that travels from the front to the rear of the car, between where the endlink mounts and the first bends. Make sure the car is on level ground and see how that section of the bar compares. If it's serious (probably won't be, but you never know as every car is different) then remove the stock pieces and install the new kit. The idea is to trim the sleeve length to have the end of the ASB (<~ that's way easier to type) sitting level with the ground. This will provide the best clearance for all those moving/stationary parts.

Drive. ASB's have NOTHING to do with alignment whatsoever!!!!! Don't let any mechanics tell you otherwise because they're just trying to ttake your money.

After a while (again, those 3.2 billion factors) the springs will settle. You will want to do another alignment. Wait untill after the alignment to see how the endlink length looks. If you feel it needs to be addressed then simply remove the parts, trim the sleeve and you're done. Why wait? Alignment affects the ride height of the vehicle. Sometimes you can notice it if it's really bad (you should have seen my car over the past year!) and other times it's not a big deal. Just wait untill AFTER the second alignment.

Also;
ANY time you have an alignment performed on an MN12 chassis you should ALWAYS get a 4-wheel alignment. Al-friggin-ways!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, if you'll excuse me I have to tell the-big-e his mechanic is uneducated in the ways of the MN12.

[lazybird4pt6]

[QUOTE=the-big-e]I took the car in for her final 4 wheel alignment and the mechanic looks over the car and says that it will need a kit to adjust the front camber settings, which I thought was already in spec...... :confused:

I know about the adjustable camber bolts for the rear, but the mechanic wouldn't align my car.....

He said that he has aligned numerous Mustangs and he suggested taking it to a specialist..... :confused:

He might be right as I drive a Thunderbird, not a Mustang :cool:
QUOTE]

No, he is incorrect. He is uneducated in the ways of the MN12 chassis. Every MN12 i've ever seen has an eccentric washer set that provides the front camber adjustment. It NEEDS to be there, you can't jsut "add it on". I've never heard of someone lowering their MN12 and having a problem except Ed N (here in the SCCoO) and even then it was a fluke. The adjustment is performed UNDERNEATH the car. The eccentric washers are located on the K-MEMBER, where the lower control arm attaches to it.

You're right - go somewhere else. This guy shouldn't be missing something so obvious.

[the-big-e]

OK...

So now I am taking it to an alignment specialist.....

Should I have the alignment done using the STOCK settings or something else?

And how much is "just a hint of camber", anyway?

[HoseHead]

OK...

So now I am taking it to an alignment specialist.....

Should I have the alignment done using the STOCK settings or something else?

And how much is "just a hint of camber", anyway?

Somewhere between a snatch hair and a little bit. :o)

Actually, 1 degree and at the most 2 degrees of negative camber (top of the tire "tilts" inward). More than this will wreak havoc on your tires as a street car spends most of it's time going straight.

Stock settings otherwise. Find a garage that let's you in with the technician. You can pick his brains and also be able to check each setting as he performs the task. A quality garage will not have an issue with allowing this. They squawk insurance purposes but that's a crock. I like to see how a technician operates. It's easy to see if they are qualified and compentent with the equipment they are operating. Many times I stop them and say, "Down the hoist, thanks for your time." Pay the minimum to the front desk and scoot. I never let any of my cars out of sight inside a garage unless I've done business there before. If I'm back, that means I trust them.