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Sharon Silver
08-27-2005, 09:58 PM
Here's a load of symptoms, can anybody tell what's wrong: I'm driving along, the traffic is crawling between stoplights, it's ninety-nine outside but cool in the car, the raido sounds good, and my SC is rearing to run. Then, THUMP, the engine sounds like it hit a humongus bump that the rest of the car missed. The power is way down, little throttle response, the warning lights, ABS, battery, ride control, trac, are flashing on and off at irregular intervials, the raido goes soft, and the A/C goes barely cool. I stop and check under the hood but can't see anything wrong. Back in the car, I power down anything electrical and the lights stop flashing, but the car is barely running. I figure it's in limp mode but I'm not sure. I drive 12 miles to the office 'cuz I have to stop. Fifteen minutes later the car won't start; only clicks once with each key turn. After a jump, it starts with some reluctance but still isn't running right. I figure the battery is gone, so I limp down to Sam's and the battery tests marginal. I get a new one and the car won't start even with a jump. The car sits for and hour, with the battery disconnected, while we go eat. After hooking up the battery, the car reluctantly starts. The idle is low and partial throttle is poor performance even though boost reads in the positive. So, I floor it and after a couple of seconds, it's at full power, hunkering down when the gears hit. I get it to AutoZone and check the alternator, it's ok in voltage and load but the bearnings are going. Prior to the problem, the car started without touching the throttle, with only a couple of cranks, and was ready to run. Now it barely cranks, has to turn like an old Chevy, has to have partial throttle, and produces tan smoke on start. It still has no go at partial throttle, and the boost seems high for the RPM, but kicks in at WOT. Codes after four KOEO = 335, it's disconnected, and in memory are 126, 543, 637, and 668. I ran KOER four times. I got 326 and 538 on the first. On the second, I got 326 and 538 and 126, 336, and either 556 or 542, but I didn't write it down. The third and fourth tests only got 326 and 538 but the also got a big THUMP form the engine after the test finished and then it idled two hundred lower than before the THUMP. If I turn on the A/C, the engine stops momentairly, then kicks through, running roughly for a few moments, then smooths out but barely keeps an idle. The A/C is back to full cold and the flashings haven't resumed but the power is way off and the idle is low. Any gusses?
Also, I need an IC nut wrench. Anybody got one for sale?

seawalkersee
08-27-2005, 10:12 PM
Sounds like you either broke a piston, have a locked up pully, clogged converter, or the balancer broke. I would check the balancer first. When you have the belts off check the pullys, then check compression and the converters. Lest you know what those codes mean. This MIGHT be related to that loose IC tube. I assume it is tight and you want to take it off. If its lose, that is your problem.

Chris

Mike8675309
08-27-2005, 10:54 PM
So what exactly is the problem at this moment? You should run the cylinder balance test part of the engine diagnostics. The noises could be a bad cylinder. You've verified that the harmoic balancer is still intact and not wobbling on the front of the crankshaft? Does the car start fine in neutral or does it still have problems? Oh, and don't bother testing a dead battery, it'll show bad anytime it's not fully charged, even if it's fine.

TbirdSCFan
08-28-2005, 01:15 AM
Here's a load of symptoms, can anybody tell what's wrong: I'm driving along, the traffic is crawling between stoplights, it's ninety-nine outside but cool in the car, the raido sounds good, and my SC is rearing to run. Then, THUMP, the engine sounds like it hit a humongus bump that the rest of the car missed. The power is way down, little throttle response, the warning lights, ABS, battery, ride control, trac, are flashing on and off at irregular intervials, the raido goes soft, and the A/C goes barely cool.
Sounds like your alternator was gone and eventually the battery was drained so low that the electronics lost power. You need to charge the battery up first with a overnight charger at about 4 amps. Then get a float type battery tester and check it for dead cells.. Problem cells will be obvious. Once you have a good battery, then start it up and check the charging voltage. It should be better than 14 volts. If its 12V, your alternator is gone. Also, clean the batt posts and clamps with steel wool, and make sure all the engine ground straps are clean and secure. There are 2 of them.

BARTHWY59
08-28-2005, 12:50 PM
harmonic balancer is the first place to look

rickbtbird
08-28-2005, 01:20 PM
Here's a load of symptoms, can anybody tell what's wrong: I'm driving along, the traffic is crawling between stoplights, it's ninety-nine outside but cool in the car, the raido sounds good, and my SC is rearing to run. Then, THUMP, the engine sounds like it hit a humongus bump that the rest of the car missed. The power is way down, little throttle response, the warning lights, ABS, battery, ride control, trac, are flashing on and off at irregular intervials, the raido goes soft, and the A/C goes barely cool. I stop and check under the hood but can't see anything wrong. Back in the car, I power down anything electrical and the lights stop flashing, but the car is barely running. I figure it's in limp mode but I'm not sure. I drive 12 miles to the office 'cuz I have to stop. Fifteen minutes later the car won't start; only clicks once with each key turn. After a jump, it starts with some reluctance but still isn't running right. I figure the battery is gone, so I limp down to Sam's and the battery tests marginal. I get a new one and the car won't start even with a jump. The car sits for and hour, with the battery disconnected, while we go eat. After hooking up the battery, the car reluctantly starts. The idle is low and partial throttle is poor performance even though boost reads in the positive. So, I floor it and after a couple of seconds, it's at full power, hunkering down when the gears hit. I get it to AutoZone and check the alternator, it's ok in voltage and load but the bearnings are going. Prior to the problem, the car started without touching the throttle, with only a couple of cranks, and was ready to run. Now it barely cranks, has to turn like an old Chevy, has to have partial throttle, and produces tan smoke on start. It still has no go at partial throttle, and the boost seems high for the RPM, but kicks in at WOT. Codes after four KOEO = 335, it's disconnected, and in memory are 126, 543, 637, and 668. I ran KOER four times. I got 326 and 538 on the first. On the second, I got 326 and 538 and 126, 336, and either 556 or 542, but I didn't write it down. The third and fourth tests only got 326 and 538 but the also got a big THUMP form the engine after the test finished and then it idled two hundred lower than before the THUMP. If I turn on the A/C, the engine stops momentairly, then kicks through, running roughly for a few moments, then smooths out but barely keeps an idle. The A/C is back to full cold and the flashings haven't resumed but the power is way off and the idle is low. Any gusses?
Also, I need an IC nut wrench. Anybody got one for sale?

Is this the Super Coupe or the Sport?

Sharon Silver
08-28-2005, 08:22 PM
I had the harmonic balancer go out on my 5.0 and it was far worse than this. It only idles rough for a few moments, and if I rev it, it stays smooth. I'm pretty sure I have more than one problem. I think some of the starting problem is the ignition switch, but once the motor is cranking, it is slow, sounding as if it the battery will go dead before the engine fires. Once it starts, it sounds tame and is not willing to run like before. Seawalkersee suggested the cats were clogged and that could explain why it is much more willing to start when cold rather than hot. It also could explain why power is poor at low rpm but it screams at WOT. I was going to replace them anyway, hopefully next week. What baffles me is that it started while it was running and an electrical problem was clearly part of it. I feel that it is in the computer but the codes don't support it. Oh, I tried the cylinder test but it would not finish. The reader stayed on 10 with a blinking square block for nearly fifteen minutes when I gave up.

TbirdSCFan
08-28-2005, 09:31 PM
If the voltage dropped below threshold, the codes are meaningless.

Did you look at any of that stuff I mentioned?

seawalkersee
08-28-2005, 10:25 PM
The cats actually do not support the high power at high RPMS. A skrewed up fuel pressure regulator will though. That could explain ALL OF YOUR PROBLEMS too. AND...AND...if you dont fix that...it will lead to more serious problems such as bearing and ring failure...

Chris

Mike8675309
08-29-2005, 09:28 AM
I had the harmonic balancer go out on my 5.0 and it was far worse than this.


The only way to be sure is to view the balancer while the engine is running looking for runout. Verify that all the bolts holding the pulley onto the balancer are still in place.

...



problem is the ignition switch, but once the motor is cranking, it is slow, sounding as if it the battery will go dead before the engine fires. Once it


That's not an ignition switch problem. Ignition switch doesn't create a high current load, or slow cranking.

That could be battery cable, starter cable related. You need to get under the car and make sure the cables at the starter are tight and in good shape.
Then check to make sure the ground straps on the block are intact.
Then make sure the battery cables are tight on the battery and on the fender mounted relay.
Make sure all of the connections are clean with no corrosion.

Then make sure the battery is fully charged and is up to spec. A good shop can do a starter draw down test by hooking up a current meter in series with the battery and measuring the current draw of the starter when cranking. Some do this with an inductive loop placed on the positive cable that leads down to the starter.



Seawalkersee suggested the cats were clogged and that could explain why it is much more willing to start when cold rather than hot. It also could explain why power is poor at low rpm but it screams at WOT.


That doesn't explain it. Clogged cats are always clogged, not just clogged when hot. And if your cats were clogged you'd notice your exhaust manifolds glowing red hot after WOT sprints. You should also be way down on power.

Describe the difference in starting cold and starting hot. What is the behavior that's different?



I was going to replace them anyway, hopefully next week. What baffles me is that it started while it was running and an electrical problem was clearly part of it.


It could be an electrical problem. These cars are OBD I so they don't measure all that much stuff to give you codes for. There are plenty of non-measured electrical items that can fail and not throw a code.

I think your best bet for help here is to clearly describe each problem as seperate problems. I.E. It doesn't start good when cold or hot. Then explain what "doesn't start good" means. Then go on to the next problem.

These cars are not that complicated but you need to take a methodical approach to tracking down the problem.

rickbtbird
08-29-2005, 02:19 PM
Here's how I start troubleshooing. With every problem continue to next test.

Check all your vaccum hoses
Check all your electrical connections including plug wires
Do a fuel pressure test at both the engine and pump
KOEO test
KOER test
Engine Balance test
Pull pugs and inspect
Compression test
Disassemble intake system, IC, and injection injectors. Clean and inspect the Thorttle body, every connection, fuel line, and vacuum line. Clean everything, and put on new gaskets as you reassemble and torque to specifications.
Replace IAC and TPS if necessary.
Seal IC with good gaskets from Tbird88 and copper RTV on the blower top.


It took me a month of weekends and I don't exactly know what the problem was but it worked for me.

TbirdSCFan
08-29-2005, 06:50 PM
Well.. if the car won't crank, seems to me the place to start is with things that have something to do with it cranking. :rolleyes: Still haven't seen an response to my original response. :confused:

rickbtbird
08-29-2005, 09:01 PM
Well.. if the car won't crank, seems to me the place to start is with things that have something to do with it cranking. :rolleyes: Still haven't seen an response to my original response. :confused:

I totally agree...

seawalkersee
10-26-2005, 09:45 PM
Updates? Oh yeah...I brought it back.

Chris

Sharon Silver
10-30-2005, 09:45 AM
The car started running correctly after a few days but the starting problem still persists. I've replaced the starter, which may or may not have been bad, and the ignition switch, which had a problem. Sometimes the car won't start but most ofthe time it barely cranks. I've run a wire from the selonid to the battery and jump it and the car fires right up, so the problem is clearly electrical. I think it's starter relay but I don't know where it's at and haven't had time to track it down.

seawalkersee
10-30-2005, 02:45 PM
So it cranks? Does it speed up while cranking? The problem MIGHT be the cable that runs under the balancer. It runs from the selonoid behind the battery UNDER the balancer, and inside (I think) the mount to the starter. I would put a DVOM at the selonoid and see if you have 12+ volts there (both sides) and then if thats bad you have a bad short cable from the batt to the selonoid. If you have 12+ volts there, then you need to check it at the starter. Now, you need to also need to be aware that I believe there was a recall on the actuator wire that caused intermitant short between the starter and the actuator wire. That should git er done for ya.

Chris

talonhead
10-30-2005, 05:11 PM
Just went through about the same type of deal after installing my new rad. It started just fine. I turned it off to take care of some leaks, when I restarted it ran at reaaal low rpm. I shut it off then tried to restart----no go......click ..click! It was late and head cold was kikn'. next day went to auto parts store to check on price and availability pending on bench check of starter. Got home put the charger on the batt and went in for a while. Checked monitor data on my scanner and bat voltage was 12.1 no wonder it didn't want to run. After about 30 min on med boost (amps went from 28 to 15) checked volts 13.2. bumped at starter good...bumped at solenoid good.. started just fine.

If voltage is less than 13+ the electronics don't like it.
Auto parts guy said that ford starters have a habit of developing 'bad' spots.
He also said it could be a bad starter cable. He recommended checking cable and trying to turn starter shaft then try again before getting a new starter.
Hope this helps.
--mikeH

Sharon Silver
10-31-2005, 03:03 AM
I'll be checking out the wiring next week if I get my vacation. I've also got a new alt. waiting to be put on but I'm waiting for a pipe mech to get some warranty parts for his mandrell bender. I have a whole bunch of stuff waiting on lifting the motor and poping the IC tubes, but I've been waiting so long I'll probably have the credit card paid off before I get the stuff on the car.

Birdman93
10-31-2005, 09:56 AM
Here are the codes you mentioned:

335 - EGR sensor voltage higher or lower during KOEO

126 - MAP/BARO higher or lower than expected

543 - Fuel pump secondary circuit failure

637 - Transmission Fluid Temperature sensor circuit above maximum voltage-circuit open

668 - Transmission Range circuit voltage above maximum voltage

326 - EGR circuit voltage lower than expected

538 - Insufficient RPM change during KOER test/Invalid cylinder balance test

336 - Exhaust Pressure high/Egr voltage higher than expected

556 - Fuel Pump Relay primary circuit failure

542 - Fuel Pump Secondary circuit failure

So-looking at the above codes-you have three issues-exhaust, transmission and fuel delivery.

seawalkersee
10-31-2005, 07:51 PM
Or a leaking EGR valve and a bad ground. All of those codes can actually be caused by a bad ground. Thus also making it hard to start. I would check the connections of all of your cables.

Chris