R-12 Freon ??

SuperCoupe007

Registered User
Hey guys/gals,

I am currently working on fixing my A/C system. I wanted to know if there is such a thing as the best or worst types of R-12. meaning like name brands or quality of freon. A friend told me that there are some types of refrigerants out there that work as R-12 but aren't 100% R-12. So my question is who makes the best R-12 (100% pure R-12) out there, if anybody ???? any pics would be great...
Thanks....
:) :)
 
Well for one thing, you have to have a special licence to get R-12, and last i heard if you could even get r 12, then it was outrageously expensive. Do yourself a favor, convert it over to 134 and be done with it, im doing that to my truck this weekend, ive been told that 134 cools just as good as r 12........


Derek
 
90XR7Cougar5spd said:
Well for one thing, you have to have a special licence to get R-12, and last i heard if you could even get r 12, then it was outrageously expensive. Do yourself a favor, convert it over to 134 and be done with it, im doing that to my truck this weekend, ive been told that 134 cools just as good as r 12........


Derek

R134a cools almost as well as R12 as long as the system is in good condition. R134a operates at a higher pressure that R12, therefore it is less efficient at transferring heat. The big problem is that you have to flush your system flushed of mineral oil before adding R134 and it's oil, they aren't compatible.

If you are replacing everything, go with R134. Also consider an aftermarket condenser that is designed for R134 and won't cover up your intercooler. Run a quick search for "aircon condenser," it is about the same price as a new stock one anyway.

If you plan to re-use many of your old components, go to epatest.com, pay $20, take an easy test, and get a license to buy CFC refrigerants. There is a product called "freeze-12" that operates at the same pressures as R12. I think that it is also compatible with the mineral oil currently in your system. It can also be found on ebay for cheaper than R134. You can also find good old fashioned R12 for about $20 a can on ebay, if you have a licence.

No matter what you do, replace your accumulator. Once an old system has been opened, you must replace this part.

To actually answer your question: if the product is labeled R-12 it is R-12, the brand doesn't matter. The EPA mandates that any mixtures of refrigerants must be named something different, and must be sumitted to the EPA for testing.
 
James Bond, Licensed to BUY!!!!

90XR7Cougar5spd said:
Well for one thing, you have to have a special licence to get R-12 --Derek
In what state do you have to get a license to BUY R-12? I've found that in my state it's not hard to find somebody who will recharge my car with R-12, but it usually involves CASH & No Workorder!!!!!!!! (wink, wink)

Also, for those living close to Canada. R-12 is still readily avail. accross the border. No silly american EPA lows there. Apparently Canadians still have their Common Sense. Americans gave away ours, to the "Tree Huggin" special interests groups. OK, I'll get off my soap box now. Thank You!

68COUGAR
 
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Sorry, I guess I should of explained myself better. Okay, make a long story short, my high pressure hose swell up (its leaking) so I ordered a new hig pressure hose, low pressure hose and new O-rings for the rest of the system (4 O-rings). I am not going to recharge the A/C system myself, I am going to take it to an A/C shop, since in CA you need a license to work with R-12 (I have no choice but to take it to a shop).. Yup as you guys said its pricey. 45/lb of freon plus labor. But i look at it this way, if the A/C has worked for 15 years, I see no reason why it should'nt work for another 15 years.... ;)


LoneStarSC:::::::

I am curious, why is it that I have to replace the accumulator ????
:confused:
 
SuperCoupe007 said:
Sorry, I guess I should of explained myself better. Okay, make a long story short, my high pressure hose swell up (its leaking) so I ordered a new hig pressure hose, low pressure hose and new O-rings for the rest of the system (4 O-rings). I am not going to recharge the A/C system myself, I am going to take it to an A/C shop, since in CA you need a license to work with R-12 (I have no choice but to take it to a shop).. Yup as you guys said its pricey. 45/lb of freon plus labor. But i look at it this way, if the A/C has worked for 15 years, I see no reason why it should'nt work for another 15 years.... ;)


LoneStarSC:::::::

I am curious, why is it that I have to replace the accumulator ????
:confused:


You are correct, the 134A is nowhere near as good as the R12. Even in a new vehicle. My Tbird cooled better half full of R12, than our Expeditino did when we first got it. Better thn the 99 F150, and better than the 96 F150 I had; all of which were 134a.

The 91 lincoln I had was also R12, and thhat thing would freeze you out in 100 degree weather on low.

Now in my Tbird, I replaced everything in the system, including the evaporator (the source of the leak) and when we got it all back together, the guy couldn't hold a vacum on it. Never could find the leak either???

So as a last ditch effort, we filled it half full to see if we could find the leak and never could find one, so we decided to leave it that way and see if it ever leaked. Well if it does leak it is awefully slow because that was in summer 02, and as far as I know it it still blowing cold.

It got me through 3 summers, and I'd bet when I pull it off the jackstand in a few weeks, it will still be cold.

Also the raggedy 93 I parted out also happed to blow cold before I got rid of it.

Just FYI, it is my understanding that you can get a license for R12 off the web pretty easily. I haven't done it, as I have a good source for R12 at the military hobby shop on post, so if you know someone that has access to one of these facilities, they could probably take you there with your vehicle. They'vs had R12 at all of the few hobby shops I've been to...

But I'd imagine that you'd be able to find a shop to do it if you looked hard enough.

On the accumulator, I have heard that replacemnt anytime it is open is a myth, but if you had a major leak, it is a good idea to replace it. There is a dessicant in the accumulator that absorbs moisture, which is apparently very bad for the system... I woudl replace it if i were you.

Good luck!
 
I'm part of the wink wink hush hush cash in hand she's done crowd... 5 times already.. ;) ..not on my SC though it was converted when I bought it....

By the way...on that EPA certification..would we want the 608 or 609 certification to get R-12????
 
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The certification you need is Section 609. The other is for residential or industrial type uses. I got my cert in about an hour on epatest.com. I was a little worried that it was a scam, but they are listed with the EPA as an authorized testing company, and I have since used my cert many times to buy R12.

****

You must change the accumulator because the desiccant that absorbs moisture will continue to swell with moisture from the atmosphere until it a) becomes saturated and no longer removes moisture from you A/C system or b) swells so large that it’s holding bag bursts and ruins your entire system. If your accumulator is relatively new and the system is only open for a very short time, you probably don't need to replace it. But if it is more that a couple of years old, or you have the system open for more than a day, replacing it is a small price to pay for the peace-of-mind.

If you have unabsorbed moisture in your A/C system, it will freeze inside the lines which will, at best, lead to poor cooling. At worst things will break.
 
sizemoremk:::::::::::

I have taken my car to a few shops out here for some quotes, and some of the shops tell me that the only way then can recharge my system is if I have my system converted to R-134A, then they telll me how R-134A is 10,000 times better than R-12, and then they say, it will cost me under a GRAND to do it all.. :rolleyes:...... Besides, I went to Auto Zone and Pep Boys and the parts that they have didn't fit on my SC. It had some strange 90 degree bends that i could'nt see on my stock lines.. :confused: I knew the dealer could get them, so I just decided to go w/ OEM parts.. pretty much plug and play... :D I had some friends that were in the service, but they have been out for a while. I doubt that they have anyone in there that could help me out, but I'll ask them anyway.....


Sweet90SC::::::::::::

I hear you on that.. I'll be looking at getting my section 609 certification... :D


LoneStarSC:::::::::::

OK, here is a lil more to my story........ I dont' really use my SC that often, it gets driven maybe once or twice a month. About a month ago, I had to use it for a couple of days, and had to use the A/C. I could tell that something was wrong, because it took a while for the A/C to blow cold, it would take a couple of minutes to do so. About a week or two ago, I took out the car for a drive to test the A/C and noticed that the compressor would still engage, but it would disengage after a few seconds. Now I knew something was going out, thats when I inspected the A/C system and noticed the the high pressure hose had a swell on it. I don't think moisture has gotten in it, but then again, i am no expert when it comes to A/C and I have no certification either :rolleyes: I might have to call the dealership to get a price on accumulator (black cylinder type canister that sits by the firewall)....

:) :)
 
LoneStarSC said:
R134a cools almost as well as R12 as long as the system is in good condition.
Almost is right, it takes a better condenser matched to the proper Otube to work well... even then, it isn't quite as good. But my A/C (r134a) will make 42 degrees, on recirc, on a 100 degree day.. thats good enough.
LoneStarSC said:
If you are replacing everything, go with R134. Also consider an aftermarket condenser that is designed for R134 and won't cover up your intercooler. Run a quick search for "aircon condenser," it is about the same price as a new stock one anyway.
Yes a new condenser is highly recommended, but when it comes to condensers, bigger is almost always better and your choice usually depends on which state you live in. Ohio residents can use the aircon, Texas residents will want a full sized one. ;) :cool:
LoneStarSC said:
There is a product called "freeze-12" that operates at the same pressures as R12. I think that it is also compatible with the mineral oil currently in your system. It can also be found on ebay for cheaper than R134. You can also find good old fashioned R12 for about $20 a can on ebay, if you have a licence.
There is nothing "12" in freeze-12, it is a blend of 80% r134a and 20% r142b :eek: The name is a sales gimick crafted to make people associate it with r12 and hence be more likely to buy it. Tests show that it cools no better than r134a. r134a will not circulate mineral oil. Supposedly, the r142b is what carries the mineral oil.

LoneStarSC said:
No matter what you do, replace your accumulator. Once an old system has been opened, you must replace this part.
That correct. However, if its not too old and has been capped off, it is reusable. :cool:
 
TbirdSCFan:::::::::::::

" That correct. However, if its not too old and has been capped off, it is reusable. "

So does that mean I can reuse my accumulator, or should I still look into a new one from Ford ?????

Thanks...
:)
 
LoneStarSC:::::::::

Actually, when I went to Auto Zone to see if they stocked the parts, and they did. The problem was that the parts that came up on the computer was not the correct one. They sold the high pressure hose with the accumulator as one piece, but it wasn't the right one.... I am going to call the dealer to see how much they want for one....
 
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SuperCoupe007 said:
LoneStarSC:::::::::

Actually, when I went to Auto Zone to see if they stocked the parts, and they did. The problem was that the parts that came up on the computer was not the correct one. They sold the high pressure hose with the accumulator as one piece, but it wasn't the right one.... I am going to call the dealer to see how much they want for one....


You must have got a bad clerk. I ordered mine from autozone.com. It fits perfectly. It was "AC PARTS 33160" for $56.99. I don't know what the local Ford dealer wants, but I bet it's alot more than that.
 
LoneStarSC:::::::::

Thanks for the part number. I will go down to the local auto zones around here, and see if they have one in stock, I will also call the dealer tomorrow and see how much they want for one.... What color is the accumulator that u bought ?? The one that they showed me at auto zone was a bare alluminum...
Thanks...
:)
 
The one I got was also bare aluminum, but all of the connections are right.
Shoot it with a cheap black primer and you'll never know the difference. You will have to reuse the pressure switch off of the old one, so be careful not to damage it during removal.
 
I got my stuff from ACkits.com and all worked well... Lines, accumulator, etc.

FWIW, I have been warned about autozone accumulators. In any case, make sure the caps are still covering the tubes, and don;t take em off till ready...

I flushed my system completely with mineral spirits, and then blew compressed air through to dry.

Seems like yours aint too bad... So that may work for you.

If it was working, or close to it, I'd say the condenser is good.

Have you just called some shops to ask about R12???

IIRC, I blieve the phonebook here (in Alabama) had a place or two with R12 in the ad, as well as even a tire shop delt with R12 :confused:

You may just have to get some service on the down low :cool:

Well, good luck!!!!
 
sizemoremk:::::::::

" If it was working, or close to it, I'd say the condenser is good. " You mean my accumulator, right ????
Whats the procedure to flush my system and where could i buy "mineral spirits " (i don't know what that is)

"Have you just called some shops to ask about R12??? "
I called shops to see if they worked on R-12 systems, and some do and some don't. Some do and they gave me prices on freon plus labor. I just didn't know if there were good and/or bad quality of R-12 freon in the market... I remember someone saying something about FAKE R-12 or something like that... I just want to make sure that the place where I take my car works with 100% R-12. I just want to know what I am getting before I take it to a shop. Sometimes shops will tell you one thing, and its all bolognie.. :rolleyes:
 
I meant the condenser, I seen someone mention you might consider a new condenser... I was kust just saying I'd keep it... Maybe I read something wrong...

I would still replace the accumulator...

Look at ACkits.com for "black death" or something like that...

Moisture is the root of AC Evil :p

Also, I don't believe there is a "quality" of R-12 The system they will use will pull everything out of the system, check it for contamination, and then either discard if bad, or re-use your R-12 and probably top it off... So if it were bad, or cheap R12, the system would recognize it as contaminated...

If I were you, I'd look for an under the table deal... Get them to take your R12, go home and blow it out with compressed air and mineral spirits (which is next to the paint thinner at home depot) and then blow it out with air a bit more... Replace the hose and accumulator, then take it back to "your buddy" to get your R12 back. If you can find such a buddy ;)
 
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sizemoremk:::::::::::::

Actually I might take it to a particular shop that mostly does A/C systems. They have 5lb canisters of R-12 (they aren't going to put 5lbs, but I belive thats how they purchase them). Not sure what name brand, they just said that they have R-12 Freon. Since there isn'tmuch R-12 left in my system due to the leak, they are going to put new freon in there. What should I have blown with compressed air and mineral spirits ??? u mean the condensor ???? Tomorrow I will know how much a new accumulator is from the dealership. Hopefully its just an arm, and not an arm and a leg..... :D
:) :)
 
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