David Neibert! Whazuuuup!!!!????

[dirtybird91]

David,
You have likely covered this, but what's the latest on you mighty TURBO powered V8!? Will you get to run it soon? :confused:
I am going insane wondering what that thing will run like after XR7 Dave gets his paws on it! :D

[quick35th]

I sure hope they got it all together and running saturday night. Sucks what happend to him but it seems like they were willing no matter how long it took to get the job done last saturday. Wish I could have seen it in person but I was off getting my own race car project underway. Good luck David!

Shane

[Kurt K]

I'll save all of the details for Neibert, but I did talk to him last night and the car is at Dalke's house.

[dirtybird91]

I'll save all of the details for Neibert, but I did talk to him last night and the car is at Dalke's house.
Wow Kurt! I bet Dalke was happy to get his meat hooks on that one! :D

[quick35th]

I'll save all of the details for Neibert, but I did talk to him last night and the car is at Dalke's house.

Thats good to hear that it did make it to Dalke's house. I talked to David N. saturday night and it still sounded like they had lots of work to do.

Shane

[XR7 Dave]

Hi Guys,

I'm posting under Dave's screen name...

At this point the car is still up on jackstands. Rather then spend 30 minuites listing all the things that were done wrong with the turbo install, I'll just mention a couple of the big ones. BTW, I didn't get out of Dayton until 1:30 AM. Chris, thanks for helping me fix the trailer wiring and hanging around with me all afternoon.

NO OIL PRESSURE, because remote oil filter was plumbed backwards and kinked. I've got my fingers crossed that there wasn't any damage done because the car was only started and loaded onto the trailer and started again and backed off at Dave's house. I never had the rpms above 1500, so I think it will be okay.

NO AIR FILTER and no way to install one as designed. They didn't even have a screen on it.

There are lots and lots of other problems that we (mostly Dave) are correcting. I'm very lucky to have him to straighten this mess out. We should be ready to start the motor later this afternoon and start tuning if the motor isn't damaged.

The hot side of the kit was done very nicely and has easy access to all the plugs, the exhaust system turned out pretty good too. Most of the problems are because they half a$$ed it on the packaging and placement of the cold side plumbing. Dave is currently reocating a huge wire harness into the passenger side fender to keep it away from the turbo.

I'll deal with ForceFab later. For now the focus is on getting the car running without it self destructing. Hope to have good news later this evening.

David Neibert

PS: I have no cell phone service :mad:

[BikerSC]

That is too bad about the mistakes. Good thing you have the right guy finishing it up. I hope it all goes well and nothing is damaged.

Glad to hear from you. I was wondering if you made it there yet.

Good luck,

-Steve

[Grims95SC]

Wow you'd think turbos and SC's aren't meant to be. I hope you guys get things figgured out!

[Micahdogg]

With all the measures and precautions you've taken, it's amazing that ANYONE has a custom turbo on their car. Seems every vendor sucks. Are these people really laid off IT guys that decided "turbo" made good money so they just slap stuff together not really worried about how it works or if it works. I would expect this kind of work from the guys who say, 'Uh, yeah, we can do custom turbo for uh....$600 for everything."

Micah

[seawalkersee]

I agree 100% with you micah. I felt bad when I was working with duane on his car and had to leave to go home without finding out what the problem was. We were so close at times but then it would foul out and not start again. When he called and said he had found out what the problem was I personally felt kind of relieved but at the same time felt bad almost like I had wasted his time. Anyway, after that long babble, the point is this: if you work hard you will always succeed. Even if some lame @$$ person is bringing you down. I work VERY hard and the guys on my department are ALL well aware of that fact. However, we ALL know who the lazy people are. Good luck with you and your stuff dave and hopefully I will meet the most of you in OKC.

Chris

[Nettlesd]

I felt bad when I was working with duane on his car and had to leave to go home without finding out what the problem was.
Chris

Duane who?

Do I know you? :p

[XR7 Dave]

Wow Kurt! I bet Dalke was happy to get his meat hooks on that one! :D

Frank you have no idea. :confused:

"Meathooks?" Maybe you could use that term for the people who got to the car before I did.

[quick35th]

Frank you have no idea. :confused:

"Meathooks?" Maybe you could use that term for the people who got to the car before I did.

Dave so whats an update on the status of Neibert's car? When do you think you will be sending him home with it?

Shane

[ThunderDave]

Imagine if there were this many problems with aftermarket or custom super charger venders. :eek: Maybe since the demand for turbos has grown so fast, the tech side hasn't been able to keep up with the demand for fabbing them up to various applications.

David, how similar is your system to the one Chris got? Did he have any of these problems? I'm sure you let FF know you wanted the car in time for the Shootout, but they shouldn't just slap the stuff together to get it out of their shop.

[seawalkersee]

Duane who?

Do I know you? :p
What? Are you talking to me? This is the second time you have followed me to a post...do I need to get an order of protection against you? :D

Imagine if there were this many problems with aftermarket or custom super charger venders. Maybe since the demand for turbos has grown so fast, the tech side hasn't been able to keep up with the demand for fabbing them up to various applications

Thats a BS thing to say. Only people who are money hungry do things like that. They would have EVERYTHING needed to do it to a Camaro or Moostang. Since this is sort of a one of job they probably used that as an excuse.

Chris

[XR7 Dave]

Imagine if there were this many problems with aftermarket or custom super charger venders. :eek: Maybe since the demand for turbos has grown so fast, the tech side hasn't been able to keep up with the demand for fabbing them up to various applications.

David, how similar is your system to the one Chris got? Did he have any of these problems? I'm sure you let FF know you wanted the car in time for the Shootout, but they shouldn't just slap the stuff together to get it out of their shop.

The problems with the kit are workmanship. Plain and simple. Yes Chris had similar problems even though his kit is a different setup.

David's kit is a pretty nice setup and I think the guys at FF deserve credit for that. It's a shame that they weren't able to finish it on time and it is obvious that they ran out of steam to finish it as the class act that it started out as.

I'm sure David will post pictures when he gets home but that is about all I can add at the moment.

David

[fastsc92]

I did see a few pics of the cold side, and I thought to myself that it could be much cleaner. It looked like they routed everything very low and below the rad support. Regardless.....when its up and running it should turn some heads.

[Scott Long]

I'm glad to hear its in his possession. And if its 95% done I trust the two of you can figure out the rest. I really really really look forward to getting a ride in this car Dave. If I make it to St. Louis again or by some miracle the shootout I want a ride. I have been following turbo mustangs for a while now so I have no doubt the potential your car has now especially when it was built around a solid foundation like your forged 347 stroker. And to top it off its black and rolls on chrome. I gotta see this thing in person.

Best of luck you too. I'm pulling for ya. Hey Dave N, if you are going to be passing by Notre Dame on the toll road we could meet up since I work near there. Just a thought. Anyways best of luck and hope everything turns out fine.

[Randy N Connie]

I would not call or consider David Ns. turbo system a kit.
Its a one off, built to Davids specs.Or as close as they could
get to his expectations.

RANDY

[seawalkersee]

I dont know if I agree with that statement Randy. The problem is that the car was not done. In the event that the last pics posted were not accurate then I have no grounds here. If the last pics were the car in as I would have asked for it in "turn key" condition, then it left MUCH to be desired. Like I said before...Camaros and Mustangs.

Chris

[Randy N Connie]

My point is,it was a one off,so its not a kit.

They did not finish the turbo system at a given date.
They needed more time to meet david expectations.

If they were building a kit,they would of been building
jigs to reproduce kits as the project proceeded.Or
after the project was finished.

So its not a kit.Its a speical built turbo system just for David N.

Randy

[XR7 Dave]

Yes Randy, this is very much a one-off system. It would be nice if they had jigs for the headers because they are very nicely made. This shop does a lot of one-off turbo systems, not a lot of which are Mustang/Camaro stuff. After reading some of the experiences of the Mustang owners (with kits from other companies) I wouldn't consider them to be a whole lot better in the fit department.

For instance the Pro Charger kit for the fox body has the IC hanging all crooked under the bumper. The guys who have those "really nice" turbo systems that you see at car shows often have done a large amount of custom work to their "kits" to get the results that are so nice.

Makes you understand why/how LPE can charge $25,000 for an OE fitting turbo system.

[seawalkersee]

Sorry Randy, I guess I read it wrong.

Chris

[XR7 Dave]

Well, David just left here about an hour ago. As you can see it took us 3 days to get the car to the point where you can drive it down the road and we spent most of today working on a "baseline" tune. The car still has some issues and is not performing to potential by any means. I could have spent a week just learning about the boost curve/power curve etc. and dialing in the tune but David has another life he had to get back to so.....

Minor issues that have to be fixed before a final tune can be put on it:

1) bad header leak on the driver side

2) need heat sheilding around several wires and things like the alternator

3) need to figure out the electronic boost controller, we didn't know how much boost we were getting nor how to control it so we were leary about running WOT too much - it does peg the stock boost gauge pretty quick

4) tranny seemed to be overheating a little - seemed like the clutches were slipping

5) being that we did not make it to the dyno, we were also unable to make full throttle passes in high gear (needed for proper engine loading)


But the car will spin the tires at just about any speed (no we didn't try it at 90mph) so I'd put a very innaccurate butt dyno guess somewhere around 600rwhp in it's preliminary state of tune.

I think David is happy with it but as reality would have it, delivery of the car to St Louis tonight will be the beginning of David's turbo car building experience and not the end of it. There are many things to fix/change still. I look forward to getting it on a dyno with all the little issues resolved and really getting the chance to wring some numbers out of it.

[quick35th]

Well thats good news that its atleast running properly for the most part. Mmm 600rwhp sounds mighty nice to me. I would be happy with that much power. Great work Dave at getting David's car sorted out and best of luck to Neibert with his turbo car.

Shane

[Parker Dean]

3) need to figure out the electronic boost controller, we didn't know how much boost we were getting nor how to control it...



That's mildly amusing since I was working on yet another TR and this one had an electronic boost controller. I must've read the poorly-translated-from-something-asian instructions half a dozen times and they never did makes sense, plus the controls on the unit itself were not intuitive. You had to do odd stuff like switch the headlights on three times, push the left button once, pull it out twice than rotate the right button 107* for one menu, 108* for another menu and 109* to save settings, and if you missed you had to start over.

We ripped that puppy out of there, put a manual unit on, and went racing!

[XR7 Dave]

That's mildly amusing since I was working on yet another TR and this one had an electronic boost controller. I must've read the poorly-translated-from-something-asian instructions half a dozen times and they never did makes sense, plus the controls on the unit itself were not intuitive. You had to do odd stuff like switch the headlights on three times, push the left button once, pull it out twice than rotate the right button 107* for one menu, 108* for another menu and 109* to save settings, and if you missed you had to start over.

We ripped that puppy out of there, put a manual unit on, and went racing!

You know it! This one seemed to have been written in decent English but there are 20 pages of menu's. We couldn't even figure out how to get it to read in psi. :cool:

[seawalkersee]

So, at 600hp, what kind of gas milage you get with that baby? :p

Chris

[Micahdogg]

While 600 may sound good....that is just a guess. And considering the components Dave chose, I can imagine that 600 is definitely not a level he wants to settle at. Afterall, a 500RWHP STOCK looking Cobra is a dime a dozen....and they don't have any issues with burning plug wires or melting the alternator.

Once David can get on the dyno and confirm well over 800 RW I'm sure he'll feel much better!!!

Micah

[dirtybird91]

I think David D. is being conservative, and that is the smart way to go. When you are guessing at 600hp levels with things such as a slipping tranny and a leaking header gasket, I think this thing will DEFINATELY be a beast when Neibert gets it together. :eek:
I just wish Neibert had more time to leave it in XR7 Dave's hands. :(

[Micahdogg]

Last time I heard someone say it had "600RW" the dude put like 350RW down on the rollers. That just sticks in my mind.

Micah

[XR7 Dave]

Last time I heard someone say it had "600RW" the dude put like 350RW down on the rollers. That just sticks in my mind.

MicahTrust me this puts down a lot more than 350rwhp. Remember David and I both drive 400+rwhp Supercoupes. It's not a monster off the line but it sucks you back in the seat like few other cars will.

[seawalkersee]

Last time I heard someone say it had "600RW" the dude put like 350RW down on the rollers. That just sticks in my mind.

Micah
Maybe I should start saying I have 600HP...that would be worth like 50 hp at the rear wheels right? :D

Chris

[David Neibert]

Hi guys,

Made it back home around at 4:00 AM and the car is still on the trailer....thank goodness the 600 mile trip home was uneventful.


Dave did a fantastic job of re-engineering and re-fabricating the turbo system to be functional, serviceable and even more attractive. It was very impressive to watch him transform the sputtering smoking mess I pulled off the trailer, into a road worthy white knuckle ride. Unfortunatly my digital camera was full and I couldn't take pictures of the finished product, but it came out much better than I expected. (perhaps Dave can post some of the ones we took with his camera).

BTW, I think Dave's power estimates are pretty accurate, and I don't expect any problems reaching the 800 rwhp goal I've set for the car. At 1/3 throttle the car accelerates faster than my 91 does on the bottle. As expected it's not nearly as strong coming off the line, but once it gets moving the power increases so rapidly it's like there is a huge hand shoving the car forward and then when it reaches a certial point the tires can no longer maintain traction and start spinning but somehow the car continues to accelerate and keeps you pressed hard into the seat. When the tires start spinning the acceleration slows a little and the car shifts to one side and the tires just start howling. That's when you shift and hang on for round two, because they start spinning again after the initial surge of acceleration, and even after going into third they are still spinning a little. That's when I get off the throttle and get the crap scared out of me, by the blow off valve.

It's a little unnerving because even though I was only pressing the throttle down a little it continues to accelerate feircly as boost increases, and it increases so rapidly the tires can't keep up. I think we were probably making about 16 or 17 lbs of boost because the wastegate has a 14-15 psi spring in it and the boost controller wasn't doing anything.

As Dave already mentioned I've got a few things to fix and have a concern with the transmission, but I don't expect any of that to stop me from bringing it to the shootout. I'll post some pictures later today.

David

PS: The dual nozzel Snow methonal injection system turned out real nice too.

[BT Motorsports]

It's a little unnerving because even though I was only pressing the throttle down a little it continues to accelerate feircly as boost increases, and it increases so rapidly the tires can't keep up.
David, are these the MT ET drag radials? If so, how much pressure are you running in them?

Paul

[David Neibert]

David, are these the MT ET drag radials? If so, how much pressure are you running in them?

Paul

Paul,

No...they are the 255 wide BFG KDKs that were on the car when I bought it from Jeramie. I'll be installing the MT drag radials before the Shootout.

David

[dirtybird91]

Hi guys,

Made it back home around at 4:00 AM and the car is still on the trailer....thank goodness the 600 mile trip home was uneventful.


Dave did a fantastic job of re-engineering and re-fabricating the turbo system to be functional, serviceable and even more attractive. It was very impressive to watch him transform the sputtering smoking mess I pulled off the trailer, into a road worthy white knuckle ride. Unfortunatly my digital camera was full and I couldn't take pictures of the finished product, but it came out much better than I expected. (perhaps Dave can post some of the ones we took with his camera).

BTW, I think Dave's power estimates are pretty accurate, and I don't expect any problems reaching the 800 rwhp goal I've set for the car. At 1/3 throttle the car accelerates faster than my 91 does on the bottle. As expected it's not nearly as strong coming off the line, but once it gets moving the power increases so rapidly it's like there is a huge hand shoving the car forward and then when it reaches a certial point the tires can no longer maintain traction and start spinning but somehow the car continues to accelerate and keeps you pressed hard into the seat. When the tires start spinning the acceleration slows a little and the car shifts to one side and the tires just start howling. That's when you shift and hang on for round two, because they start spinning again after the initial surge of acceleration, and even after going into third they are still spinning a little. That's when I get off the throttle and get the crap scared out of me, by the blow off valve.

It's a little unnerving because even though I was only pressing the throttle down a little it continues to accelerate feircly as boost increases, and it increases so rapidly the tires can't keep up. I think we were probably making about 16 or 17 lbs of boost because the wastegate has a 14-15 psi spring in it and the boost controller wasn't doing anything.

As Dave already mentioned I've got a few things to fix and have a concern with the transmission, but I don't expect any of that to stop me from bringing it to the shootout. I'll post some pictures later today.

David

PS: The dual nozzel Snow methonal injection system turned out real nice too.

Hey Dammet! Pass the friggin popcorn! :D :D :D

[ThunderDave]

Hey Dammet! Pass the friggin popcorn! :D :D :D

Yeah, where is Rick with the popcorn?

Sounds like you were right David. It's going to be SCARY! :eek: :D :cool:

[seawalkersee]

Glad its going good soo far Dave. Where is the sign up sheet for the rides?

Chris

[David Neibert]

Here are some pics of how it looks now.

David

[David Neibert]

It looked like this when I left ForcedFab. Real sloppy work on the cold side plumbing and almost no concern for proper function and fitment of the parts. I didn't find out until getting to Dave's house that they also removed the charcoal canister that hooks to the gas tank vent.

They did do a very nice job on the headers and other hotside plumbing. I have easy access to all the plugs and no issues with burning the plug wires.

David

[quick35th]

Looks pretty awesume David! So when are you giving me a ride in it? :D

Shane

[Jeremy_K]

Looks cool, I hope to see it at the shootout.

[supercatxr7]

Looking good Dave. Too bad they didn't finish it as I'm assuming you would expect. What would we all do without Dalke to help us....

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

.....................................

[ThunderDave]

.....................................

Damon is speechless? :eek: :cool: ;)

It looks awesome David.

[Micahdogg]

That return pipe looks sooooooooooo much nicer now. I like how the radius tucks by the fender. Also...little things like not throwing the wires on in a rats nest make a big difference. Nice job on finishing it.

Micah

[pro street rich]

Now you will have to finish it up and send some pic's back to them to show how it should have been done....Let me know what happens with the other tires. Those are the same ones that I put on this last car. They are VERY STICKY......you will love them.
Don't be surprised if you don't get a good dyno #'s. I keep going up in smoke on the rollers... We have done a bunch of tire pressure's and still can not find a good place to be...The next time we are going to try some new spray to help with the spinning.....Good luck and keep it shinny side up and out of the weeds...........Rich

[David Neibert]

Now you will have to finish it up and send some pic's back to them to show how it should have been done....Let me know what happens with the other tires. Those are the same ones that I put on this last car. They are VERY STICKY......you will love them.
Don't be surprised if you don't get a good dyno #'s. I keep going up in smoke on the rollers... We have done a bunch of tire pressure's and still can not find a good place to be...The next time we are going to try some new spray to help with the spinning.....Good luck and keep it shinny side up and out of the weeds...........Rich

Rich,

I went and bought another $160 worth of gaskets, heat wrap, reflective wrap and insulating sleeves today. Should have it in pretty good shape sometime this weekend.

Still not sure if I have a transmission problem or not, so I'm going to take it real easy until the Shootout just in case. I won't know what it does on the dyno until we strap it down at the Shootout.

David

[fastsc92]

Hey dave, can you snap some more pics of the cold side pumbing? I'm interested in seeing how it came out. The before pics were not what I expected from a professional shop. What you and Dave did, and the final outcome should have been what rolled out of the shop. Great job guys, looks very slick.

[Scott Long]

Wow, faster at 1/3 throttle than your 91 on the bottle. Thats gotta be fun. The turbo must have a little bit of lag, if you got a transbrake you could eliminate that lag..... Depends on if its not fast enough for you. I have got to see this car in person. Hope the rest of the stuff comes together and the trans holds up. Lentech will warranty that thing if you cook it right?

Glad you made it home safe.

[David Neibert]

Wow, faster at 1/3 throttle than your 91 on the bottle. Thats gotta be fun. The turbo must have a little bit of lag, if you got a transbrake you could eliminate that lag..... Depends on if its not fast enough for you. I have got to see this car in person. Hope the rest of the stuff comes together and the trans holds up. Lentech will warranty that thing if you cook it right?

Glad you made it home safe.

Scott,

I don't want a trans brake for several reasons, but mainly because it's not a race car...I would also need a looser converter, SFI bellousing sheild and a big basket to put all the IRS parts in when they fly apart on the starting line. It should be fast enough for me just launching off the foot brake. I would probably add a nitrous system to help with the launches before doing anything else.

Come to the shootout if you want to see it and go for a ride.

David

[T-bird4vr]

DN is the maf going to function correctly when it sees boost? Do they accomodate for pressure changes in their readings?

[David Neibert]

DN is the maf going to function correctly when it sees boost? Do they accomodate for pressure changes in their readings?

Julian

It's harder to tune but yes it works. It's called a blow thru configuration, and the BOV is before the MAF. I don't have any idea how it accounts for changes in pressure or even how it can calculate load since the thing will accelerate like a beast at partial throttle and the TPS voltage would indicate moderate acceleration.

David

[Micahdogg]

Rich...just pop the truck and throw a couple guys in there. That's what the Supra folks do.

Micah

[BT Motorsports]

So........ David, now that you and Dalke have pretty much unbotched everything Forced Fab screwed up, how much are they refunding you, or is Dalke just going to send them a bill?

Paul

[David Neibert]

So........ David, now that you and Dalke have pretty much unbotched everything Forced Fab screwed up, how much are they refunding you, or is Dalke just going to send them a bill?

Paul

I'm asking for a $1,500 refund and so far they aren't returning my calls. I also filed a complaint with the credit card company disputing a portion of the charges.

David

[fastsc92]

I know its private and you dont have to answer this at all if you dont want to. But how much did a set-up like this run you?

[David Neibert]

I know its private and you dont have to answer this at all if you dont want to. But how much did a set-up like this run you?

Including 84# low impedance injectors, rewiring the harness to include a pair of DSM resistor boxes, the electronic boost controller and a full exhaust system, it was a little over $9K including the sales tax.

David

[BT Motorsports]

it was a little over $9K including the sales tax.

David
As Jackie Gleason used to say:
hmmmnaaa hmmmnaaaaa hmmmnaaaaa..............

Good luck with it David.

Paul

[SilverCasket]

Dave, don't forget to have the Office of Attorney General's Consumer Protection Agency send them a letter. .. That's one way to ensure they start calling you to give you money back. .

MAN I can't wait to see that thing!

Anthony

[BT Motorsports]

I guess the next $9k question will be if the AC works with that nice big front mount without the car overheating. What kind of AIT are you seeing David?

Paul

[Kurt K]

I guess the next $9k question will be if the AC works with that nice big front mount without the car overheating. What kind of AIT are you seeing David?

Paul
It will be a while before he can test the AC, since it's not currently connected. He will need a new condenser (with outlets on the driver's side) before he can test the AC.

He'll have to post the AIT info.

[David Neibert]

I guess the next $9k question will be if the AC works with that nice big front mount without the car overheating. What kind of AIT are you seeing David?

Paul

Paul,

With the car cruising around on a mid to high 80s day, the air charge temps were about 130-140 degrees. When into boost they dropped to 90-100 degrees. This was with the dual nozzel Snow system running, so I'm not sure how much the IC does on it's own.

David