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JasonMiller94SC
10-23-2005, 09:11 PM
I'm thinking about putting a cam in my car while I have the heads off the car but I know nothing about them. Do I have to pull the motor to put a cam in? I don't want anything to wild but I figured a mild upgrade would be nice if it doesn't cost a fortune. Can someone offer some suggestions of what would be a good cam for my car with my mods or point me to someone who would know.

68COUGAR
10-24-2005, 01:18 AM
I'm thinking about putting a cam in my car....I don't want anything to wild but I figured a mild upgrade would be nice if it doesn't cost a fortune. Can someone offer some suggestions of what would be a good cam for my car with my mods or point me to someone who would know.
The CMRE stage 1 cam has very close to what XR7Dave says is the optimum SC cam. I was glad to hear that, cuz I bought my Coy 1 quite a while ago. Mine was $310 which included the .080 (I believe) longer pushrods. I sent Coy a core with my order, so I didn't have to pay a core deposit.

From earlier post by XR7 Dave:
For best torque and driveability and if you have vacuum assisted brakes, go with 210/220 dur and about .520-.550" lift. For a nasty screamer make that about 230/240 dur and about .580" lift. Comp cams has new cams available so you don't have to go with a regrind anymore.

68COUGAR

JasonMiller94SC
10-24-2005, 12:33 PM
I forgot, I already have the 1.8 roller rockers in the car so will that affect what cam I get?

XxSlowpokexX
10-24-2005, 12:54 PM
Yes teh 1.8's will affect lift.

Call up Comp cams and ask for Matt Maxwell. He will hook you up with the cam you need based on your modifications

XR7 Dave
10-24-2005, 01:58 PM
Not to discourage anyone from calling Matt directly, but calling the manufacturer is not always the best use of your available resources.

Speaking with someone who specs, installs, drives and tests the products just might get you a better fit. ;) Expecially if that "someone" is in constant communication with the manufacturer(s) and customers.

Many times I resist posting on threads that ask these types of questions because I don't want people to think that I'm a "know it all" about the subject and also I don't want people to think that I am creating pressure for you to buy something from me.

But on the other hand, I have put a lot of time into researching cam and valvetrain combinations for these cars so I feel that I could probably give you some good pointers. If you want to get stuff from me that's good too.

BT Motorsports
10-24-2005, 03:15 PM
Not to discourage anyone from calling Matt directly, but calling the manufacturer is not always the best use of your available resources.
Odd, Kevin Leitem went with the cam manufacturer's spec and he has the fastest M90 SC out there (In fact, it is faster than every non nitrous SC we know of). Do you suppose he just got lucky?

Paul

kiwikiwikiwi
10-24-2005, 03:24 PM
Didn't kevin go with the spec's his head porter/engine builder gave him. I thought i read that on a post he put up before.

Scott

XR7 Dave
10-24-2005, 03:39 PM
Odd, Kevin Leitem went with the cam manufacturer's spec and he has the fastest M90 SC out there (In fact, it is faster than every non nitrous SC we know of). Do you suppose he just got lucky?

Paul

1) Kevin's cam is the recommendation of his engine builder which is exactly what I said above would be "the best use of available resources".

2) The inference that Kevin's sucess in this case is the result of a magical cam spec is just plain ridiculous.

The success of Kevin's car is the result of a carefully executed combination of parts that work together combined with some excellent driving skills and lots of practice.

David Neibert
10-24-2005, 03:56 PM
The race weight of Kevin's car also plays a significant role. But it sure does run good.

David

BT Motorsports
10-24-2005, 03:58 PM
Didn't kevin go with the spec's his head porter/engine builder gave him. I thought i read that on a post he put up before.

Scott
Kevin states at the shootout he went with the cam grinder's suggestion (unless he was lying which I doubt was the case). He stated this in response to an inquiry presented to him about who the company was that ground his cam (it wasn't comp or crane either).

David, no inference was or is being made that the cam is the secret to his success, the implication is that Kevin did his homework and trusted the company that makes the product which netted him a very well performing vehicle. Not much of what he has done seams to be mainstream in the community. The fact that his 11 second accomplishments were made without the lately hyped autorotor and SCT software speaks a lot all by itself. No need to get your panties in a bunch, I simply do not agree that a person should not be able to trust the people who are in the business for longer than many of us have been on the planet and feel Kevin's success is just one testament to that.

Paul

XR7 Dave
10-24-2005, 06:47 PM
Don't worry, panties not in a bunch here. :D

I merely stated that calling Comp directly may not be the best use of resources. Dont' read into what I said more than what is there.

While Comp certainly does sell parts retail, they do not consider themselves to be a first line source for parts. Often they will refer you to Summit or other retailers for better prices on parts.


"Resources" mean your time waiting on hold on the Cam Help line and then in turn waiting for a call back. Matt is a busy guy.

"Resources" also means using his time to your best advantage. Matt is knowledgeable and always willing to help, but it is a much better use of his time for a vendor to call and place an order rather than for him to have to field all the specific questions that an SC owner may have. I find in many cases it takes a couple calls/emails back and forth with an SC owner before a cam profile is decided on. Having someone who has the time and knowledge to answer those questions and can be easily reached can be quite helpful if someone is not real sure what they want.

Use of "resources" also mean that Comp may not be the best source for other parts needed to go with a given cam. Unfortunately Matt can't help you with that but there are others who can.

Anyway, I offered to help with cam selection and expect nothing in return. That was in my first post.

....and who knows, Kevin's success might be in spite of his cam instead of because of it. :p

XR7 Dave
10-24-2005, 06:57 PM
The fact that his 11 second accomplishments were made without the lately hyped autorotor and SCT software speaks a lot all by itself. No need to get your panties in a bunch, I simply do not agree that a person should not be able to trust the people who are in the business for longer than many of us have been on the planet and feel Kevin's success is just one testament to that.

Paul

BTW, I have never suggested that someone not follow the advice of people "who've been in the business", perhaps you weren't aware that all Comp cams that I have provided for people have been spec'd with the assistance of Comp Cams personnel? It would be silly of me not to use that resource and follow qualified recommendations.

I think you are taking things a little too hard Paul, as far as I know ALL 11 second SC's so far have utilized M90's and NONE have used SCT software or tuning. What Autorotors have to do with any of this I have no idea, but whatever. Should I post how much Kevin's car weighs as compared to the AR car he ran against at the shootout? Do you really want to take this discussion to that level?

XxSlowpokexX
10-24-2005, 07:20 PM
When getting a cutom ground camshaft it is just that..Custom ground. Being Comp has the magical new blank (do others have that now as well?) it's a no brainer to me to give them a call and use thier many many many years of experience making camshafts to your advantage. Many years of SC regrinds and soon to be many years of new grinds for our cars. Plus the countless feedback of every customer happy and unhappy. Noone I know including myself can give you that. I'm sure some people will like you to think that they are a better source but none of us are reinventing the wheel here.

However you can also go through a store, a shop, an individual and pay an extra fee for that service. They will then call up the cam manufacturer themselves.

Hell you can have me do it for you. I need a lil extra cash. On second thought maybe I'll do it for free being I get a discount anyway :O) (and still make a lil on the deal)

My original advice is the same. Call the manufacturer.

Damon

CMac89
10-24-2005, 07:28 PM
Wow!!! All the guy wants to know is what cam he should run.

No you don't have to pull the heads to put a cam in, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to pull them and have them ported.

I got my cam from a guy on here named "catwithboost." Just shoot him a PM and say you want the 212/220, .531/.539 lift, on a 114LSA cam. That is the cam I am running. It's a nice, mild cam to go with.

sizemoremk
10-24-2005, 07:46 PM
Make sure you check the bad sellers area before you consider dealing with catwithboost...

Jake
10-24-2005, 07:47 PM
Be very careful when dealing with catwithboost http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64753

CMac89
10-24-2005, 08:41 PM
I got my brand new cam, pushrods, and valve springs the same week I ordered it from him. You guys are crazy. Something just came up with him. He PM'ed me a couple of weeks ago to see how things were going.

He's a great seller in my book.

sizemoremk
10-24-2005, 09:01 PM
This is not the place for this discussion, we were just trying to warn others to check the bad sellers forum.

If you look over at the other thread, you will see that he still owes others LOTS of $$$ or parts.

pablon2
10-24-2005, 10:21 PM
Make sure you check the bad sellers area before you consider dealing with catwithboost...


Yes, it is a good idea to check the bad seller section before sending someone your money.

David Neibert
10-24-2005, 10:46 PM
I got my brand new cam, pushrods, and valve springs the same week I ordered it from him. You guys are crazy. Something just came up with him. He PM'ed me a couple of weeks ago to see how things were going.

He's a great seller in my book.

Glad you had a good experince with Brian Soloman AKA Catwithboost...some of us didn't and we are not crazy.

David

PS: Order the cam from Dave and get one made from the billet blanks instead of a regrind.

CMac89
10-24-2005, 11:00 PM
Glad you had a good experince with Brian Soloman AKA Catwithboost...some of us didn't and we are not crazy.

David
I wasn't intending to judge.

XxSlowpokexX
10-24-2005, 11:34 PM
Actually on second thought....Kevin would be a good person to ask on cam advice. Afterall his combination is proven to work. And well at that

XR7 Dave
10-25-2005, 12:04 AM
When getting a cutom ground camshaft it is just that..Custom ground. Being Comp has the magical new blank (do others have that now as well?) it's a no brainer to me to give them a call and use thier many many many years of experience making camshafts to your advantage. Many years of SC regrinds and soon to be many years of new grinds for our cars. Plus the countless feedback of every customer happy and unhappy. Noone I know including myself can give you that. I'm sure some people will like you to think that they are a better source but none of us are reinventing the wheel here.

However you can also go through a store, a shop, an individual and pay an extra fee for that service. They will then call up the cam manufacturer themselves.

Hell you can have me do it for you. I need a lil extra cash. On second thought maybe I'll do it for free being I get a discount anyway :O) (and still make a lil on the deal)

My original advice is the same. Call the manufacturer.

Damon

Geez Damon, I said the same thing in my first post!! If you want to call Comp Cams go ahead!! I was just pointing out that there may be benefits to calling someone else as well. Heaven forbid someone else have any useful data. :confused:

Anyway, what you said is just plain dumb. Comp Cams (including Matt) relies on the feedback from their TRUSTED dealers for making cam recommendations. They didn't know jack about our motors until guys like me and others before me started giving them feedback, discussing issues, application limitations, etc. So ya, I guess since companies like Morana Racing, Coy Miller, SSM, and gosh, myself whom you despise so much have provided the feedback and information necessary for Matt Maxwell to be able to provide qualified information to you, that we don't serve any purpose anymore. That's cool. Don't support the people who support you, and while you are at it, make sure that no one else supports us either. We serve no purpose, we are just dead weight on the economy. :rolleyes:

Go ahead, call up Comp Cams and ask them how much lift you can run on the stock valves. Better yet, ask them what valve springs to use or what pushrods you'll need. I know that those are questions that they can't answer because they just plain don't have the data!

PS.
Comp Cams doesn't make any billets for our cars either, Comp buys them from the same manufacturer that any other cam grinder can buy them from if they want to. :eek:

CMac89
10-25-2005, 12:09 AM
I called comp cams a while back and they were recommending a puny ~~~ little 208/216 cam. I wouldn't put that in my car at gun point.

So I agree that the only reason to talk to a manufacturer, comp cams, is to make a custom cam, but I wouldn't ever get a manufacturer's recommendation.

XR7 Dave
10-25-2005, 12:12 AM
Actually on second thought....Kevin would be a good person to ask on cam advice. Afterall his combination is proven to work. And well at that

Damon you are funny. You have no idea what you are talking about but you just keep on going.

Kevin (is it really fair to talk about him when he's not here?) RELIED on the advice of his engine builder/cam grinder, whatever. He didn't even agree with the cam selection but he went with it anyway because he trusted the advice he was given. That makes him a pro at cam selection? Give me a break. I never said I was a pro either. I just offered to help. That's all.

XR7 Dave
10-25-2005, 12:17 AM
I called comp cams a while back and they were recommending a puny ~~~ little 208/216 cam. I wouldn't put that in my car at gun point.

So I agree that the only reason to talk to a manufacturer, comp cams, is to make a custom cam, but I wouldn't ever get a manufacturer's recommendation.

All cams for our cars are custom. That is why it is best to plan your cam purchase with the assistance of someone you trust. Bottom line.

Damon trusts Matt. Damon apparently doesn't know that Matt generally recommends profiles that have been proven by us "middlemen" to be effective. :cool:

XxSlowpokexX
10-25-2005, 12:42 AM
Anyway, what you said is just plain dumb. Comp Cams (including Matt) relies on the feedback from their TRUSTED dealers for making cam recommendations. They didn't know jack about our motors until guys like me and others before me started giving them feedback

If you read what I wrote you will see THAT I mentioned FEEDBACK being a part of the equation (plain dumb reread what I wrote). Even you make your choices in camshafts based on the countless hours of those same people you mentioned put into these motors as well as people on this board that had great success. Along with the cam manufacturers help of course. Can you compare a few years of experience to what the cam manufacturer has? I'm unsure. Should you go and call up the cam manufacturer stating you need a cam but have no idea what you need it for? Of course not.

Not once did I state that you personally havnt done your homework because lets face it. The information is out there. The cams have been ground, reground and ground again. We know what works and what doesnt work. Anyhing new created is experimental and unproven. Kind of like a custom cam created by one of the many manufacturers out there that has never been used before. There have also been many grinds available from TRUSTED dealers that just plain didnt work. Thats what happens when a TRUSTED dealer says...I want this and the cam manufacturer goes.....Well if you really want that...

All I can say is I have had VERY good results from custom grind cams. All I supply is my information and what I am looking for and they give me a spec. SO far so good

XxSlowpokexX
10-25-2005, 12:53 AM
Actually Dave,

Before you were a middle man a few years ago (before changing career paths to what you do now) I had a few cams ground by comp via Matt.

Coincidently they were nothing middlemen such as yourself had created.

Coincidently I see others on this board using cams VERY similiar to those I had made.

I guess those people got cams through a middleman that coincidently got them through comp based on ..My cam specs

As a matter of fact I do believe I was the first here to get a new grind from Comp.

Regardless this is taking a dive for the worst and I'm just going to back out.

I make no money working on, selling or reccomending any type of SC products or services. Just an enthusiast that wants whats best for a majority of SC owners.

Weather you go with Dave, Morana, Coy, Bill, Dick, Harry...Or directly to Comp..You will get what you need. Hell you can even ask me

Damon

PS Its on and I have nothing to lose :O)

sizemoremk
10-25-2005, 01:28 AM
I hate to add another stream into the pissin contest here :p , but I emailed Matt at comp cams awhile back and tried to get him several times on the phone without much luck. He finally responded to my email like a month or two later :eek: and when I did get ahold of him on the phone he didn't seem to know jack aout a SC... He just sent me the specs for a CMRE stage 1 cam, and couldn't really advise me of anything else :confused: I find it hard to believe that Coy Miller just called up Comp and asked for a good grind, I would imagine that Coy defined that grind...


Now Matt may know his cam grinds for other applications, I don't know; but he was of no help to me. By the time he contacted me, I had already talked cams with Dave over email, and read some generic cam selection articles to get an idea of what I needed. I was not aware that Dave was offering cams at that time, hell I didn't even know Dave did anything other than tune and deal with steig heads; or I would have got one from him. So I ended up with the catwithboost cam, and it seems to be fairly inline with what I need based on what I've read and what Dave has recommended to others over the past several months.

So based on my experience, I'd talk with Dave or someone else familiar with a SC, unless ole Matt has really studied up on his SCs ;)

But even after all this discussion, I believe some extensive use of the search function, you woud find mre than enough info and opinoins to get a better understanding, and feel for what is best for you.

XR7 Dave
10-25-2005, 03:11 AM
Actually Dave,

Before you were a middle man a few years ago (before changing career paths to what you do now) I had a few cams ground by comp via Matt.

Coincidently they were nothing middlemen such as yourself had created.

Coincidently I see others on this board using cams VERY similiar to those I had made.

I guess those people got cams through a middleman that coincidently got them through comp based on ..My cam specs

As a matter of fact I do believe I was the first here to get a new grind from Comp.

Regardless this is taking a dive for the worst and I'm just going to back out.

I make no money working on, selling or reccomending any type of SC products or services. Just an enthusiast that wants whats best for a majority of SC owners.

Weather you go with Dave, Morana, Coy, Bill, Dick, Harry...Or directly to Comp..You will get what you need. Hell you can even ask me

Damon

PS Its on and I have nothing to lose :O)

I'm glad you put a smiley at the end of that because I am going to kick your collective hiney and its all in good fun when it comes to the cars. :p

Regarding cam specs that you got from Matt, I'll just clear the air once and for all. It was Fred who first indicated to me that lift in the neighborhood of .600" was good for these motors. Then after that it was Chris Wise who actually posted his cam specs which reflected a profile of those proportions. I got yours from you via email some time after that I believe. Nonetheless as you mentioned, there is no re-inventing the wheel here and your specs are not much different than Chris's were. Fred never actually posted any specific grind so I just don't know exactly what his best recomendation was for a killer setup.

Anyway, back to your cam, if it really was a recommendation from Matt, then I don't see how you think that it is your spec at all but rather it is his. If on the other hand it was something you specified, then I guess Matt is not "all that" after all. Just a little confused on that point. ;)

Nonetheless, I am not copying your grind at all with the cams that I have provided to a number of people here. Don't flatter yourself. I have a different philosophy than you subscribed to when ordering your cam and there are significant differences between what you ordered and what I have provided for people and have ordered for myself. If I were to be accused of copying anyone, it would be Coy Miller, but due to the fact that I don't have his exact profiles in my possession, I am merely using some of the things he told me at the SC Shootout in 2004. My conclusions come from a variety of places and really resemble none of them or all of them depending on how you look at it.

As I said before, all cams for SC's are custom and so you either have to be certain yourself what you are going to order or you have to trust someone. It is true that cam selection went astray for awhile but we are (I am) working hard to rectify some of those mistakes. My own example with my car and certainly Kevin's as well very clearly demonstrate where some mistakes have been made in the past. We both have very conservative cams and both have had very good success with them.

FWIW I think that the only reason you are getting away with the profile you have in your motor is that you have way more blower than you know what to do with. I am absolutely certain that your valvetrain will have packed it up and gone home long before the cam reaches the end of its rope. I have also seen where others have tried to copy you (or was it Chris Wise?) (not via me either) and have ended up with way too much camshaft for an M90 car and are less than satisfied. Clearly for those with an M90 on their car, less is more. :)

PS.

If the "It's on now" thing has anything to do with business don't worry, I try very hard to keep that out of my posting on these forums other than the places where it is supposed to be. This has been a deviation from that committment and I don't even know how it got this way. :rolleyes:

SeanMatteson
10-25-2005, 06:52 AM
Dave, did you sleep with Damon's gf in the past or something?! He really seems to have it out for you for some reason.

If I can offer a little feedback from personal experience...

I went to Dave for help in selecting a cam and complimentary valvetrain.

I'm running mildly ported heads with stock valves. Dave set me up with a grind (brand new core) that still allows the car to be very streetable, but that should breath well and make power to 6k RPM. I had the cam in the car and was driving it for two weeks and the thing ran absolutely great! Unfortunately, I was planning to have the car tuned by Dave this coming weekend, but last Saturday I spun a bearing (the bottom end was all original with about 110,000 mi on the clock, and it has been abused for the past three or so years). I may have done something wrong during the swap, since a lot of parts were changed at the same time, and I won't know for sure until I can yank the motor and drop the pan, but I was very happy with the combination that Dave suggested for the short time the car was running.

Dave will take the time to listen to what you want to do with the car, and he puts together combinations that work. If you're not willing to pay for that service, then do your homework and take your chances at putting together specs on your own. I don't think Dave will begrudge anyone who decides to go it alone. However, anyone who downplays what Dave does as a businessman and as a member of this community needs his/her head read. I've got nothing against Damon, and in fact I've got some use out of information he's posted here before, but I also can't really see why he gets so combative with Dave, and judging from my personal experience, it's not appropriate. Damon, have you ever thought about being more 'constructive' with your criticisms?

Dave, keep up the great work! I've used your services before (through Super Coupes Unlimited), and I will continue to in the future.

...Now back to the purpose of this thread!

Ask Dave what I'm running for cam specs. It works great for my setup! I wish I had dyno numbers to back that up, and hopefully in the near future, after getting the bottom end rebuilt properly to support future mods, we'll see some numbers and know for sure.

Best regards,

Sean

XxSlowpokexX
10-25-2005, 08:06 AM
What the heck..Before work.

Some advice.

When getting a cam call the manufacturer. Dont email them.

My cam.

I had Chris Wieses cam. I tossed it. I had Steigs cam...I tossed it...I had several other REGROUND cams. Tossed them.

One thing you get with a fresh grind is driveability and durability. Its iffy if and when you may break through the finish coat when regrinding a cam. Cam failures have happened for many. Just nto worth it when going large. Not worth it period.

When getting a new grind you start off with a fresh loabe and can therfore get a nice ramp on them which will INCREASE performance and Driveability. You can also change lobe seperation and cut timing into the cam. All of which you cannot do with a factory regrind.

My cam is not like Chris Wieses cam at all. Not one bit. Idle is MUCH improved. Drivability MUCH improved. And power MUCH improved. I havnt even tapped the potential of my motor. I also never told Matt what size cam I wanted. Wieses cam was cut by Crane as well I believe...Not Comp.

Saying my cam is like Chris W's is like comparing two people that weigh almost the same and are almost the same height. Beyond that there is no comparison between teh two..One lifts weights and eats healthy while the other smokes and drinks. One flabby and oput of shape, the other muscular and fit. So much more to a cam then just lift and duration measurments. SO much more to a cam then timing and lobe seperation.

Dave there was a time when you said it was silly to spend the extra money on a new grind. I would say why?....The cost of the blank, machining of the timing chain sproket to degree it, along with finding the correct pushrod lenght and having to buy them seemed foolish with a better alternative. That plus you need to know how to measure for proper pushrod lenght and know how to degree a cam not to mention cost of tools required. I am assuming that viewpoint has changed being its obvious the pros of a new grind.

SO back to the original plea for a cam...Buy new not a regrind

Once again I never said you couldnt provide anyone a good cam as the information is readily available to do so. Believe me if I thought going to you for a cam was a bad idea based on peoples experiences I would say so.

Because I say it how it is and always have.

Anyway I think a new thread discussing cam specs the whys and why nots is in order to avoid this being a Dave D advertisement from his followers/customers and from this post inevitably going even further downhill.

pablon2
10-25-2005, 08:08 AM
All cams for our cars are custom.

Found this on Comp's website. Mentions SC in the description. I'm not saying this is the best one out there, for all I know it could be crapola, but it shows that one can order a cam for the SC through Comp Cams without throwing around custom specs via lengthy "tag-your-it" type phone calls with Comp.

http://www.powerandperformancenews.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=44-703-9&Category_Code=44-CAM

CMac89
10-25-2005, 10:20 AM
What I meant by a custom cam is you tell someone what the exact specs that you want PERSONALLY. A cam that is picked up off of the shelf and shipped to you isn't exactly custom because they didn't make it according to what specs you gave them.

Only one's self can find out what is the right cam for thier car if they are looking for the best power with decent driveability. I dont give one nor two ~~~~~'s about driveability, if it's a 265/275, .800/ .850" cam I'll put it in if it makes the most power (exaggerated the numbers).

Just as an example i've had head porter's, engine builders, and other of the few Pontiac guys recommendations of specs for a cam and had about 5 different one's made and none of them worked (for my race car not the SC). The only one that worked is the one I went off of by intuition. I looked at flow sheets to determine lift, I used computer systems to manipulate cylinder head choke at certain RPM's, average EGT's, etc.. to determine the right cam.

So I think Damon did the right thing with having a couple of cams made to see which one works best and I believe Dave is right for saying not to go with manufacturer's poor suggestions. Hopefullly this isn't one of the posts I make where I look back and say what the hell was I talkin about. :rolleyes:

:) :) :p

XR7 Dave
10-25-2005, 12:53 PM
Just to clear the air about Damon's cam since he is inferring that I'm stealing his design, Bob Steigemeier spec'd cams for customers (a Comp grind) of his heads at 240/240 dur and .545" lift, 114 lsa. Some people bought them and some people made good power with them. That's fine and dandy. I know of one SC making 395rwhp with this cam. The only complaint that I have about this cam is that it has lousy idle charactoristics, particularly on a 5spd car, and it sucks a lot of gas because apparently it blows a lot of fuel out the exhaust due to excessive overlap. If you were into running high rpm and don't care about street manners it might work ok for you. Both Damon and I were offered this cam with our Stieg head purchases which I promptly declined and Damon apparently never installed his. I stuck with what I already had (CMS1 clone).

Then as I understand, Damon ordered the Chris Wise cam which is a Crane re-grind with 224/236 dur and .596/.631" lift on a 114 lsa. Damon said he never used this cam as I believe it was about this time that both David Neibert and BTM Paul had lobe failures. Whatever the reason it is my understanding that he never tested the cam.

Then Damon ordered a new cam from the then new blanks that Comp Cams was offering. Damon sent me the specs for that cam and asked me my opinion prior to installing it in his car. His new billet cam was ground on a SBC profile with 224/230 dur. .579/.588" lift with 112 lsa. I told him I thought the grind was a very good choice and would rev well and would require bigger injectors than he had at the time.

Evidently there turned out to be some problem with the cam found during or before installation and he ordered another one. He later told me that his new cam was 230/236 dur with .588/.600" lift and a 114 lsa (also a SBC grind profile). I believe this is the cam he is using on his "500rwhp" motor and it is the only cam he has actually tested in his car as far as I know.

Most of the cams that I have helped people with are nowhere near these specs but some are "up there". David Neibert's cam, one which peaked Damon's interest recently, is a Ford journal grind with 224/228 duration and .600/.610" lift with a 114 lsa. The use of a Ford journal for a pattern allows for a more aggressive ramp and hence more lift at less duration. I spec'd this cam specifically to match David's heads and doesn't necessarily reflect what I have specified for others.

There are other factors that fall into place here as well and you can't get all of them from just reading numbers. At any rate the limiting factor with a hydraulic roller is that you can only get just so much lift with a certain duration and so to get more lift than Damon and David are running requires longer duration which is what I was trying to avoid. Hence you will typically see hydraulic rollers for SC applications topping out around .600" lift (+/-).

Based on my conversations with Matt Maxwell, Coy Miller, Damon (back when he wasn't mad at me), Bob Steigemeier, Steve Webb, Chris Wise, Brian Solomon (yes, I helped him come up with his cam he sold to various people here before he dissappeared) and others, I have been working on what I hope is close to ideal cam choices for various applications. I have tried where possible to follow up my recommendations with testing and customer feedback which I feel is a responsible way to build a basis for making solid recommendations for people. Some of you out there are driving "experiments" on my part. I have been careful with what I have spec'd for people and I think the results have shown.

As you can see there are many things that can be taken into account with cam selection and influence the end result. I do not simply take what someone else has already done and rebadge it with my name. I have never done that will not in the future. I do use information that is either readily available or given to me to help formulate my own flavor on things. I have done my homework and spent many hours in research. Does that make me a pro? No, results may one day show just how "pro" I may or may not be. Right now I am a student, this I have said this before and I say it again now.

If anyone wants my help I will give them my best effort. Believe me, I don't make enough money on any cam purchase to make this worth my while. The reason I do this is that by working on developing cam packages for people and by helping them get the results they are looking for then we can move the whole SC thing forward. That's all I really want out of this. Is that so hard to imagine?

As for the whole "billet vrs re-grind" thing, I still offer people the choice. Regrinds do offer a good value to the budget minded person and in all cases a regrind (if properly done) is better than a stock cam given the choice. It is also worth noting that a new billet does not mean that stock length pushrods can be used. You may be shocked to learn that the new billets require longer pushrods the same as the regrinds do and in some cases require even longer pushrods than the standard .060" longer for a typical regrind. These are things that my research over the past year has taught me and all represent possible reasons why it might be beneficial to have a person order a cam through me. You get the same quality and experience available from Comp Cam's vast database but you add to it SC specific data that isn't necessarily available all in one place anywhere else.

Or then again for those who have the knowledge and confidence to do it themselves I'm also available for just BS'ing or bouncing ideas off of. :)

xThunderbirdSCx
10-25-2005, 01:15 PM
Dave stop talking to people and get my car fixed! :p :p :p j/k

CMac89
10-25-2005, 01:43 PM
So is this where the beef from Damon to you is coming from, or is it coincidence? Sorry to be nosey, but just wonderin.

Everyone at SCCOA loves you guys, so no judgement here. :)

David Neibert
10-25-2005, 01:51 PM
So is this where the beef from Damon to you is coming from, or is it coincidence? Sorry to be nosey, but just wonderin.

Everyone at SCCOA loves you guys, so no judgement here. :)

This is just the latest round.

Before this I think it was about Alky injection, before that twin screw blowers. It just goes round and round..

David

CMac89
10-25-2005, 01:52 PM
This is just the latest round.

Before this I think it was about Alky injection, before that twin screw blowers. It just goes round and round..

David
Yeah, I saw the alky thread. Actually, I do see it alot. I laugh the whole time I read it. Cracks me up :)

sizemoremk
10-25-2005, 03:07 PM
Some advice.

When getting a cam call the manufacturer. Dont email them.




It wasn't for lack of trying, I did finally speak with Matt on the phone, and told him what I had on the car, and what I had planned, and he gave me the CMS1 cam specs again... Which by then I had already been advised that the CMS1 was not what I was after.

Kevin Leitem
10-26-2005, 05:32 PM
hey guys, sorry i haven't posted here on this subject till now, but i just got married and no longer have a computer to use. so i am only able to check up on here once or twice a week. But my cam came from Bullit Racing Cams. Which they reground from a stock cam. Between Domhoff (my machinist) and myself we gave B.R.C. everything about my car and engine. I was actually disappointed when i got the results back. I thought it was way too small. but they insisted it would be a good cam. As far as is it the perfect cam? I still doubt it,but i feel that it is doing well. as for my race weight my car was 250 pounds heavier last year and ran an 11.66 with a 1.59 60' . at the shoot out i ran 11.63 with a horrible 1.71 60' If i would have come off the line harder it would have ran 11.40's plus i shifted about 600 rpms early. I was taking it easy to get a feel of the track. unfortunately my belts started to slip real bad and i lost almost 5 lbs of boost by the end of the day. each run i would turn the timing up a degree and shift a little higher. but each run i lost another pound of boost due to slippage. i started out at 19 lbs.but it still ran 11.70's all day. I will post my cam specs as soon as i find my card again. But i do agree with Dave, My cam is not the magical piece. just a small piece of the puzzle.

68COUGAR
10-26-2005, 07:44 PM
sorry i haven't posted here on this subject till now, but i just got married and no longer have a computer to use.
She took your computer away!!!!!! Damn, she must be GIB, to put up with THAT!

68COUGAR

XxSlowpokexX
10-26-2005, 08:50 PM
Sometimes we expect that bigger is better or will make us go faster. Its all a matter of whats parts you have and getting the cam that will work with those parts. Just as Kevin stated. He gave all the engine specs his machinist gave him along with other misc information about his car and there it was.

I have a larger blower then Dave N and reworked Steig heads with a fullline of specialty coatings (high flow, thermal barriers etc). I would think with better flowing heads and a larger blower I would need a bigger cam. However Comp chose one slightly smaller lift wise (from what I know) then what he has and I had great results.

So yes it is a combination of everything and that is something that the cam manufacturer or Dave or I or anyone needs to know to get you a cam that works. Perhaps a bigger cam may even give you a few more Hp up top but with much reduced drivability and low end power production.

sizemoremk
10-27-2005, 12:59 AM
Did you hear that Dave!

Damon says his is bigger than yours :eek:


You gonna take that :D

boostedbird
10-27-2005, 01:33 AM
Did you hear that Dave!

Damon says his is bigger than yours :eek:


You gonna take that :D

U troublemaker u

sizemoremk
10-27-2005, 01:38 AM
U troublemaker u


Sorry its late, I'm a little silly from all this stuff they want me to do for work...

Imagine that, they want me to work for my paycheck:(

boostedbird
10-27-2005, 01:52 AM
Sorry its late, I'm a little silly from all this stuff they want me to do for work...

Imagine that, they want me to work for my paycheck:(

Whats the world coming too? We should be sitting on top of a temple dressed in white robes while beautiful women sit and throw little pickles to us why am I the only one that has that dream? :rolleyes:

David Neibert
10-27-2005, 09:16 AM
Did you hear that Dave!

Damon says his is bigger than yours :eek:


You gonna take that :D

Actually he said his cam was smaller. I'm on my 4th cam and this latest one is almost as good as the Chris Wise copy that kept breaking valvetrain parts. The intake (lift & duration) is about the same, but the exhaust has less lift and slightly less duration.

From several years of trial and error experimenting, it seems that my motor likes big lift over big duration. Since I'm only running with 1.65:1 rockers, I can always swap over to some 1.73 or 1.80:1 ratio for a little more power. But that might start causing problems with the valvetrain again, so I may just stick with what I have.

David

PS: If anyone is interested I've got the Steig 240/240 cam that I recently removed up for sale. It's in very good condition and I'm asking $125 plus shipping...PM me if interested.

sizemoremk
10-27-2005, 10:57 AM
Whats the world coming too? We should be sitting on top of a temple dressed in white robes while beautiful women sit and throw little pickles to us why am I the only one that has that dream? :rolleyes:


Pickels???? ~~~, they should be throwing beers to us!(not at us of course)


And Mr. Neibert, where is the cam that kept breaking stuff??? Maybe thats the one I want :D What specs was that, and with what rockers? Just curious where valve train starts to break...

XR7 Dave
10-27-2005, 11:10 AM
David's cam was trashed when a lifter retainer broke and tore up the lobe/journal. David's valvetrain failures were a result of a variety of factors and probably don't apply to most other people. Our valvetrain is very similar to any other Ford and will accomodate any SBF cam profile provided that the appropriate hardware is used.

Looking at what others have done will just make you a follower. Do the math, apply the physics and come up with something better. :)

turbospeed
10-27-2005, 03:01 PM
Sometimes we expect that bigger is better or will make us go faster. Its all a matter of whats parts you have and getting the cam that will work with those parts. Just as Kevin stated. He gave all the engine specs his machinist gave him along with other misc information about his car and there it was.

I have a larger blower then Dave N and reworked Steig heads with a fullline of specialty coatings (high flow, thermal barriers etc). I would think with better flowing heads and a larger blower I would need a bigger cam. However Comp chose one slightly smaller lift wise (from what I know) then what he has and I had great results.

So yes it is a combination of everything and that is something that the cam manufacturer or Dave or I or anyone needs to know to get you a cam that works. Perhaps a bigger cam may even give you a few more Hp up top but with much reduced drivability and low end power production.

damon not to be and ~~~ or something , but i been here almost 3 years or so and i been hearing about your 1000hp SC since then and never ever seen anything, i mean we all seen coy miller runs or David N runs , David Dalke products but never seen even a 1/4 time from you.

CMac89
10-27-2005, 03:48 PM
damon not to be and ~~~ or something , but i been here almost 3 years or so and i been hearing about your 1000hp SC since then and never ever seen anything, i mean we all seen coy miller runs or David N runs , David Dalke products but never seen even a 1/4 time from you.
This reminds me of my Uncle. He was the first person to run a Pontiac 400 6X motor in SuperStock and then told this other SuperStocker to run this combination and that guy did. My uncle even told him what valvetrain combos and what head porter he should send his heads to. Now this guy has the fastest Pontiac 400 6X motor, second fastest car in GT/FA, and they win the points chase the last 3 years.

This guy gets all of the credit for that motor too. I'm not trying to get at anything i'm just saying it reminds me of this story. :)

David Neibert
10-27-2005, 05:50 PM
And Mr. Neibert, where is the cam that kept breaking stuff??? Maybe thats the one I want What specs was that, and with what rockers? Just curious where valve train starts to break...

It's sitting im my garage with all my other broken parts. Since there's a nice chunk missing from one of the lobes, it isn't really good for anything except a reminder not to rev the motor so high.

Like Dave said...lots of stuff contributed to my valvetrain failures. Mostly revving the motor too high and having rocker studs that were not strong enough. I'm still revving it too high, but the studs are much stronger now. I also changed all the lifter retainers to the fiqure 8 style instead of the dual fork style that I broke. If it happens again, I'll convert to the Crane link bar style lifters like I'm using in the turbo motor.

The cam had something like .625 lift with 1.73s and around .600 with the 1.65s. I don't remember the other specs, but have the cam card at home.

David

quick35th
10-28-2005, 02:15 PM
PS: If anyone is interested I've got the Steig 240/240 cam that I recently removed up for sale. It's in very good condition and I'm asking $125 plus shipping...PM me if interested.

David I just may be interested in your cam though I have a feeling it might be to much for my motor.

Shane

David Neibert
10-28-2005, 06:14 PM
David I just may be interested in your cam though I have a feeling it might be to much for my motor.

Shane

Shane,

If your looking for a cold natured stumbly idle, almost no vacuum (5-7 inches @ 1100 rpm), so much overlap that it spits a good bit of raw fuel and boost into your exhaust, and a garantee that you will fail emissions testing. This is the cam for you.

Seriously...I wouldn't reccomend it unless your planning to rev the motor pretty high. I wouldn't even reccomend it then....but there are several 12 second cars using the same cam, so it's not a total ~~~. Tony Serno's car is the one I'm most familiar with that's using it.

You may want to ask for his input before buying it.

David

PS: I'll even throw in a set of lifters with less than 20K miles on them.

XxSlowpokexX
10-28-2005, 07:07 PM
Turbo speed,

Actually three years ago I had a 14 second SC, 2 years ago a non running SC...A year ago a running SC now a non running SC. And I been around for a hell of a lot longer then 3 years. Well actually I always had two SC's..So always one running:O)

Whatever you keep hearing isnt comming from my mouth because I rarely mention anything about my sc powerwise, 1/4 wise or otherwise being it is in a few peices and will be for awhile till a certain someone finishes up my lower intake. I unfortunately cant speed up this process and to be honest I do not even know what the future lies as far as that project is concerned.

Would I brag about my car if it was together now?..Probably not. However if you have been around for the last 3 years you should know that every modification I had done to my car has been documented here in some fashion with pictures or advice on what I did that worked and didnt. Or giving advice or reccomendations. Then again maybe I was just taking pictures of someone elses car or engine peices. Maybe it really wasnt me who bought the AR from Mendola. Maybe it wasnt really me who purchased the Steig heads and had them redone and completely coated by swaintech and posted pictures of it....I can go on. Hell maybe my car as well as myself are just a figment of everyones imagination.

One thing is for sure though. I dont feel I have anything to prove and if someone cares to listen to advice I give so be it. If not so be it as well. I have more then enough car related projects going on to brag or prove"what I got" The one car I am truly proud of is my 87 Cougar xr7 Turbo. Ive had that car since 91 and ist had everything from a 5 speed/HO conversion(When Ford themselves told me it couldnt be done) to a myriad of superchargers and turboes.

Anyway once again I'm digressing. Heres what I claim to be. An engineer, idea man,a hell of a mechanic and a diehard ford guy. I will never claim to be a fabricator nor an expert engine bilder, porter, tuner. I have done my fair share of that stuff but its far from my forte.

I dont have the quickest 3.8 supercharged SC nor will I ever (not my intentions) and I may not even have one of the most powerful ones when I'm done (which was my intention). Just in case anything I ever said leaned otherwise.

Anyway thats my story and I'm sticking to it. You probably need to know me to judge me. And I let very few people in at that.

XxSlowpokexX
10-28-2005, 07:23 PM
PS last 1/4 mile time from me was a 15.0 :O) in my red sc

Yah I miss it.....

Before

http://members.aol.com/xmetalgodnyc/stocksc

After

http://members.aol.com/xmetalgodnyc/images/redsc

SeanMatteson
10-29-2005, 09:17 AM
Damon,

I think this is the first time I've ever seen pics of that car. That looked awesome!

...Of course, I am partial to red SC's. ;)

...And although I admit to being a Dave Dalke supporter, I never meant to suggest that I don't value what you contribute to this community. Now that I think of it, it might be a good thing for this community that you and Dave have these controversial discussions, since it serves to keep each of you in check, and it helps to drive the dissemination of information to the masses.

It looks like I'm going to be building an engine, finally, after years of mulling it over. The spun rod bearing (assuming that's what it is) has forced my hand. I'm hoping to build a bottom end that could take nitrous or big boost, and that could live if it ever sees 7,500 or 8,000 RPM. I'm hoping the cam I just installed hasn't been harmed at all, but even it may not end up making the final cut, since it was spec'd for making power to 6,000 RPM and I may want to push that envelope.

Keep up the great work, guys, with respect to sharing your experiences with the rest of us, because you're helping us all get further faster with our projects.

Sincerely,

Sean

Kevin Leitem
10-29-2005, 01:35 PM
She took your computer away!!!!!! Damn, she must be GIB, to put up with THAT!

68COUGAR
no. the computer i used was my parents, now i have none!

Blown 91 Bird
10-29-2005, 03:24 PM
off topic kinda, but does anyone know the specs for the stock cam? (lift/[email protected]/lsa) :confused:

BT Motorsports
10-30-2005, 01:37 AM
off topic kinda, but does anyone know the specs for the stock cam? (lift/[email protected]/lsa) :confused:
It will cost you $15 to find out:

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31590

Paul

XxSlowpokexX
10-30-2005, 01:54 PM
Now that I think of it, it might be a good thing for this community that you and Dave have these controversial discussions, since it serves to keep each of you in check, and it helps to drive the dissemination of information to the masses.

That is my general intention untill someone starts getting personal with name calling (Original post edited not by me)

And thanks..I still think it kinda looked better stock...Now if I could find another red 94.......

68COUGAR
10-30-2005, 05:55 PM
off topic kinda, but does anyone know the specs for the stock cam? (lift/[email protected]/lsa) :confused:
This is what was posted FREE here some time ago:

Factory CAM Specs

89 Manual

Intake .448", 194 @ .050", ICL 106
Exhaust .457", 202 @ .050", LDA 110
_______

89 Auto, 90 thru 93 All

Intake .445", 192 @ .050", ICL 108
Exhaust .457", 198 @ .050", LDA 113.5
________

94 thru 95 All

Intake .427", 214 @ .050", ICL 113
Exhaust .443", 180 @ .050", LDA 105.5


No mistake, Intake duration is longer than Exhaust on the late cams. The '89 manual cam is the best of the bunch.

I think that making somebody pay for FREE information is really Bad for the community!

68COUGAR

68COUGAR
10-30-2005, 06:23 PM
That is my general intention untill someone calls...................
Damon, what happened to the rest of your msg?

Confused 68COUGAR

XxSlowpokexX
10-30-2005, 11:26 PM
hahaha Someone not me edited it!..Kinda like I added a "*" in place of a letter in a curseword and well you know hahaha

Kevin Leitem
10-31-2005, 07:10 PM
here is my cam card I promised

CMac89
10-31-2005, 10:42 PM
here is my cam card I promised
That's a REALLY mild cam to run an [email protected] on.

I must say impressive. :)

XR7 Dave
10-31-2005, 10:53 PM
Seeing the actual specs, it's more cam than mine has (mine peaked HP at over 6000rpm). It's a good profile, those gross lift specs are wrong though (based on 1.6 RR). Actual lift is .526 I and .520 E.

It doesn't take a whole lot of cam to make good power in these motors. In fact in many cases people have opted for too much cam and have lost cylinder pressure because of it.

CMac89
10-31-2005, 11:02 PM
I see the 224/228 is a proven cam. I was thinkin about switchin to that cam, but maybe there's more important things.

XxSlowpokexX
11-01-2005, 12:12 AM
Dave,

Just a bit curious as to how you determined the gross valve lift was wrong. And no I;m not starting anything here

Damon

ThunderCoupe
11-01-2005, 12:20 AM
for some reason i have the urge to make a cheezy comment to damon with the phrase trick or treat... good thing i'm usually good at suppressing those urges...

David Neibert
11-01-2005, 12:24 AM
Dave,

Just a bit curious as to how you determined the gross valve lift was wrong. And no I;m not starting anything here

Damon

.3040 lobe lift X 1.73 rocker ratio= .52592 valve lift

quick35th
11-01-2005, 11:55 AM
It doesn't take a whole lot of cam to make good power in these motors. In fact in many cases people have opted for too much cam and have lost cylinder pressure because of it.

Sounds like the dynamic compression ratio went down to much in those motors that were over cammed resulting in a power loss. A bump up in static compression would have cured that problem. Either that or their heads could not provide enough flow for the cam.

Shane

XxSlowpokexX
11-01-2005, 02:10 PM
3040 lobe lift X 1.73 rocker ratio= .52592 valve lift

I didnt see where it said the specs were for 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.73 rockers...

XR7 Dave
11-01-2005, 02:18 PM
I didnt see where it said the specs were for 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.73 rockers...
It didn't. Just do the math. :p

XxSlowpokexX
11-01-2005, 10:26 PM
If you assume it was for 1.73 rockers. I didnt assume that although that is what our cars come with. So theoretically its right and wrong at the same time.

XR7 Dave
11-02-2005, 08:34 AM
If you assume it was for 1.73 rockers. I didnt assume that although that is what our cars come with. So theoretically its right and wrong at the same time.
The lobes are specified on the card to be .304 and .301. Since this is a measured dimension for which the cam grinder had the data (the actual cam) in front of him and the valve lift is a theoretical calculated value for a rocker arm which the cam grinder did not have in front of him, I tend to think that the lobe lift would be the value which would be more accurate than the calculated valve lift if there happened to be a discrepancy (there is).

Just to be clear, it is NOT theoretically right. It is WRONG because Kevin is using a 1.73 rocker arm. So regardless of what is printed on the card (obviously 1.6 rocker values), the valve lifts which Kevin's cam is providing to his motor ARE in fact the values that David N and I have detailed above.

:cool:

T-bird4vr
11-02-2005, 09:29 AM
maybe Kevin is running 1.8's :eek: :eek: :p

CMac89
11-02-2005, 11:13 AM
Maybe he's running 2.0's. :eek:

XxSlowpokexX
11-02-2005, 02:01 PM
Could also be running 1.6's.

It just wasnt clear is all unless you assume the rocker variable. Which both you and Dave N did. I just tend to not assume is all

David Neibert
11-02-2005, 03:34 PM
Could also be running 1.6's.

It just wasnt clear is all unless you assume the rocker variable. Which both you and Dave N did. I just tend to not assume is all


Damon,

I didn't make any assumptions...Kevin has already said he was running 1.73 ratio rockers.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showpost.php?p=356086&postcount=30

David

XxSlowpokexX
11-02-2005, 04:50 PM
Ok so I assumed you assumed..Regardless it doesnts ay it on the cam card!

David Neibert
11-02-2005, 05:16 PM
Ok so I assumed you assumed..Regardless it doesnts ay it on the cam card!

I know it doesn't say it on the cam card, and it wouldn't matter if it did, since several rocker ratios could be used. That's why the lobe lift number is the one that matters.

David

sizemoremk
11-04-2005, 01:04 AM
I'm now confused, are stock rockers 1.6 or 1.73, why would the cam be speced for 1.6? Is it because this was a 302/351 profile?

CMac89
11-04-2005, 01:08 AM
I'm now confused, are stock rockers 1.6 or 1.73, why would the cam be speced for 1.6? Is it because this was a 302/351 profile?
I'm pretty sure that stock rockers are 1.6, but I do know that 1.73 is the aftermarket rocker ratio.

Kurt K
11-04-2005, 01:31 AM
I'm pretty sure that stock rockers are 1.6, but I do know that 1.73 is the aftermarket rocker ratio.
Stock SC rockers are 1.73

sizemoremk
11-04-2005, 01:40 AM
Is this a good spot to talk about the 1.8 rockers?

After some discussion with CMAC89 and going through some posts, I am curious about using 1.8s...

I seen Mr Dalke mention them in a thread but claimed no help on the dyno, but he also said he bent pushrods. I am wondering if there is a pedestal mount 1.8 rocker, even a conventional non-roller 1.8 rocker I could use with some good pushrods???

CMac89
11-04-2005, 01:41 AM
Fair enough.... :o :)

XR7 Dave
11-04-2005, 08:32 AM
Is this a good spot to talk about the 1.8 rockers?

After some discussion with CMAC89 and going through some posts, I am curious about using 1.8s...

I seen Mr Dalke mention them in a thread but claimed no help on the dyno, but he also said he bent pushrods. I am wondering if there is a pedestal mount 1.8 rocker, even a conventional non-roller 1.8 rocker I could use with some good pushrods???

Harland Sharp. I'll sell you mine if you want 'em. :p

Randy N Connie
11-04-2005, 09:25 AM
Harland Sharp. I'll sell you mine if you want 'em. :p

David, For how much?

Did the pushrods have enough clearance around
pushrod hole in heads with the 1.8 rockers?

And how do they mount to the heads?

Thanks Randy

XR7 Dave
11-04-2005, 01:29 PM
David, For how much?

Did the pushrods have enough clearance around
pushrod hole in heads with the 1.8 rockers?

And how do they mount to the heads?

Thanks Randy

They are direct bolt in (pedestal mount). I have had them on the Cougar for awhile now but am going back to stock rockers. The pushrods do not hit the holes (as far as I know), I think what happened is that the stock pushrods were flexing under high RPM and THEN they hit the holes. It is very close that is true. Others are using the 1.8rr's with no apparent issues but I think they have hardened pushrods already so they did not experience the pushrod flex that I had. I now use 7.2" chrome moly pushrods. In fact I think I'll sell them too.

It's not that there is anything wrong with any of this stuff, it's just that I need money to support the buildup on my next motor. Plus I think I can make 400rwhp on the XR7 all day long without any fancy parts.

The Steig heads are coming off, the trick RB intake manifold is coming off, the headers already came off, FMIC is coming off, cats are going back on, AC is going back in the car and I might even put 2.73 gears back in it. I'm sick of people telling me that my car is all tricked out and that is why it runs so good. Pbft! Truth is I have way too much motor for the car the way it is set up right now. I'm convinced that it will still run 12.50's and make 400rwhp in daily driver form and nothing fancy. Plus then I can compete in Mod 1 and run smack all over anything with an M90 on it and cats underneath it. :D

(Ya, I know I'll get kicked out for going to fast but that's ok by me. :D)

CMac89
11-04-2005, 01:43 PM
All you have to do is get a 9" with a 4-link then you wont have enough motor :) . Or you could just tub it. :D

So the stock IC with the stock piping, ported stock valve heads are going back on?

XR7 Dave
11-04-2005, 01:56 PM
All you have to do is get a 9" with a 4-link then you wont have enough motor :) . Or you could just tub it. :D


This is my wife's car so no, suspension mods are out of the question. :)

CMac89
11-04-2005, 01:58 PM
This is my wife's car so no, suspension mods are out of the question. :)
I was being sarcastic, but fair enough. :)

Randy N Connie
11-04-2005, 02:22 PM
Sorry for the subject change.

David D. What is the wt of the roller rockers
compaired to the stock units? anyone know.

I have a pair of SCP down pipes with cats for stock headers.
Got any thing to trade? E-mail me if you do. I have a M90,
MPII, & MagIII with plenums and polished.The MPII was a
brand new M90 blower converted to the MPII.

Randy

Randy

sizemoremk
11-04-2005, 02:28 PM
Let me know how much for the rockers, are these rollers, are regualar ones?

XR7 Dave
11-04-2005, 04:45 PM
Sorry for the subject change.

David D. What is the wt of the roller rockers
compaired to the stock units? anyone know.

I have a pair of SCP down pipes with cats for stock headers.
Got any thing to trade? E-mail me if you do. I have a M90,
MPII, & MagIII with plenums and polished.The MPII was a
brand new M90 blower converted to the MPII.

Randy

Randy

Randy, it's really hard to say with a rocker arm because of the fact that a lot of the weight is stationary. I think that the reciprocating weight of a roller rocker is less than stock, but overall they are much heavier.

Aluminum rockers also concentrate a lot of their weight near the fulcrum where it has little effect on valvetrain mass.

But after all that I have no idea which is lighter. The only MP product that I would be interested in is an 85mm TB. We probably should be discussing this kind of thing in classifieds though. ;)

Ira R.
11-04-2005, 07:18 PM
The Steig heads are coming off, the trick RB intake manifold is coming off, the headers already came off, FMIC is coming off, cats are going back on.........

I'll trade you a set of cats for the headers :rolleyes:
Probably not. You thinking of selling the headers??

Ira

XR7 Dave
11-04-2005, 07:20 PM
LT's are already sold. ;)

XxSlowpokexX
11-05-2005, 03:02 AM
Plus then I can compete in Mod 1 and run smack all over anything with an M90 on it and cats underneath it.

But wouldnt not having an m90 automatically bump you into Mod II and running faster then 13.30 bump you into Mod II...And running quicker then a 12.50 into pro street? SO even if you ran an M90 something or other youd minimally be in Mod II?..Just curious..If my car ever runs again I know its pro street regardless

2) Modified Level 1

Engine. 3.8L based Ford V6, internal mods allowed, ported heads allowed. CNC ported and/or welded exhaust ports NOT allowed. M90 supercharger only. No nitrous allowed. Alcohol injection allowed.

Body. Same as stock class.

Tires. All DOT tires allowed.

Suspension. Same as stock

Interior. Same as stock

Index: 13.30 Bumps to Modified Level 2



3) Modified Level 2

Engine. Must be 3.8L based Ford V6. Any form of forced induction allowed.
Nitrous allowed. Additives allowed.

Body. Any MN12 body allowed.

Tires. Unrestricted.

Suspension. Same as stock

Interior. Must meet NHRA/IHRA safety rules.

Index: 12.50 Bumps to Pro Street