Anyone with a v8 swap on a sc?

Insane4cefed

Registered User
I found a nice sc for sale and it is pretty cheap. My first car was an 89 sc so apart of me wants to get this car and build it up. The car that I am looking to get is an auto and i believe the year is 92. What I want to do is put a 351 or possibly a big block in it and go with a forced induction system such as a procharger or something similar. I know alot of modding needs to be done. Most of the parts for the car will probably have to be custom made. I just want to know if any of you have done this to your sc or if any of you know what im talking about and can lead me to places that can guide me. This is a serious post. I am prepared to spend about 15-20k worth of parts for this car ( this is a project car tho, happen over time ). I am still learning about american cars tho. When I started to get into cars and wanting to mod them in such I was driving a twin turbo 3000GT and that lay out is WAY different from a Ford v8. So any of you can give me hints, tips, or even pics of your car with a v8 swap it is all appreciated.
 
well you can either go raw american muscle with a 302 351 or a 460, or any stroker variety. that would be best bang for buck, but cost you at the pump is all.

to stay "true" to the MN12 platform you can do a mod motor swap. SOHC or DOHC, DOHC will be a bit more expensive, but come with some more grunt stock and heads flow a ton of air. basically is a cobra engine.

SOHC is what these cars come with and most standard fords. SOHC can be made powerful, especially with the help of forced induction. will cost ya less for cams/heads than the DOHC too. do a search on here or TCCOA on "PI motors" also with 4.6 you have the wiring woes for swaps, but you can get through that.
.

but going with the 4.6 variety is a nice modern light weight way and fuel injection, just takes a tad more $ to build the power with one than say a carbed big block. BUt its almost a direct swap. where as big block would be more custom.

it can be done though, some guys dont like to see these cars stripped of the engine they were designated with, but i say so long as it has a supercharger its still an "SC" . they will chime in soon.

Mean time do some searches :) good luck.

PS despite my name i am NOT one of those swappers ;) i had an 88' tbird i was doing a 427 stroker with out of a 351, when i joined here.
 
302HO is a simple bolt in with some wiring issues. When I say wiring issues, I mean soldering some jumpers in here and there. Not a big deal. If you get the 302HO running, you can swap a 351 in. The 351 and 302 HO are the same firing order. 302HO not to be confused with a standard 302. The auto tranny will work although you need the 5.0 tranny cables. You also need 5.0 MN12 mounts. It's not a bad swap, and to be honest, converting my 93SC to 5.0 power was the first motor/tranny swap I did without any help. It managed to start first shot. I also swapped in some foxbody equal length headers at the same time.

Aftermarket for the 302 is incredible. I would suggest if you want a few headaches swapping motors, that the 302 is the only way to go. Not to mention how cheap the upgrades are. Also, if you get your paws on a 93 MN12 motor, it has a B303 cam in it. Only drawback to the 93 motor is that they went to Hyper pistons, where the earlier years were forged. I suppose if you got an earlier motor and sprayed it, you could have a nice little street machine on your hands for little money. Personally I would get a 302 bird fro the start and throw ground effects on it. I realize there is some SC attributes you lose, but none I couldn't live without.

Skip
 
To add, if you don't have the motor and are looking for one, 5.0 explorer motors have gt40 heads and intake(I believe, look into this for yourself) Also, you can find them with AL blocks. Nice and light. I wouldn't bother with the MOD motor unless you go ALL OUT and get a cobra motor.
 
I am indeed looking to go all out. I know the fallowing facts for sure...

I want it to be fuel Injected
I want it to be procharged

A setup suggested to me by a friend was going with a 351 and using a c4 tranny...Tho a big block would be nice, I hear the weight difference makes you HAVE to push more power to go the same speed.

I want to be able to BOOST this engine...so you say the early 302 HO were forged internals? Im trying to see if factory forged would be good enough. I figured getting a raw block, getting a nice bore and filling the block with JE forged pistons and eagle rods and such. I also heard from my uncle that nomatter what I do I HAVE to get aluminum heads. He claims that the stock cast or even ported cast cant even match aluminum heads un-ported. So mabey the best way to figure out what this car needs is to make a list. like the engine I want to go with. I saw some 4.6l cobra engines around 2-3k on ebay, but whoo knows what your gonna get there. If a 4.6l is the biggest engine that I can fit and be almost plug- play then thats what I want to do. But like I said gents...I come from a 3000GT and Talon world...im like push rods :confused: I know alot about basic engines and I have worked alot on my 3000GT so hands on work is NO problem. But Im sure some of you have like your perfect setup in your minds that you would do if you were building a project car...well I want those Ideas...speaking that idk what I can get outa a 4.6l cobra motor vs the 302 HO or what even a 302 HO is...im sure its like high output but what makes it high output idk. But Supercoupev8 , if you were building this project car and you wanted to go 10's mabey 9's if these motors can carry these cars that fast...what would you choice for a motor choice?
 
If you plan on swapping over, its going to be a little expensive for the swap itself, but that depends on what "you" decide to do.
100_0851.jpg

Its a bonestock 351W with a C6.
 
My motor choice would definitely be the 302-351's hands down. My preference, would be a 351 based motor, only because it will take a little more abuse then a 302 block. This is only my opinion. If you went 302 based, you may want to look into a Dart block. Some will argue the OE 302 block will take 600hp. I am sure their are a handful doing so, but I would bet every last penny I have that there are more broken then consistently running.

Where are you looking to be HP wise? I would estimate you would need ballpark around 800-900 to get these pigs to the numbers your looking at.

BTW, pre-93 motors weren't all forged, just forged pistons.

If your looking for 9's. Better sit down and be prepared to spend roughly 25k. And that's probably REALLY conservative. It would be nice if guys like DaveN would chime in. He just completed his turbo SC.

Everyone says they are ready to spend, but when your talking about laying your car up for a couple of years, then having to dish out around 30k, it leaves a lot left to be desired.

BTW, what about the tranny, brakes, rearend....?

Skip
 
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I am getting this SC for mear nothing. Im getting the car for 200 bucks from an old laddy. It was her daughters car and they are rich! It was her car for awile then as all cars do they need work and well they had this thing like completly redone. The motor has brand spankin new heads and tons of work, I havent gotten to look threw all the reciets but this car was well matained and they said they have around 12k worth of work on the car over the years. The only thing left do get the car running is re-wiring the vacum lines. From what they say there mechanic didnt know how to work on that car to the fullest and couldnt complete the car for them and since they are so "rich" they just bought there daughter a new car and that one sat. It has been sitting for awile but overall the car is IMACULANT. So trying to find a ol v8 one is not something I want to do. Well back to the project descusion. Yes this car will happen overtime. I have other toys that are not " balls to the walls" so I have something to keep me tickin. So we have decided that it is best to go with a 351 block. As for hp gains, I was told with a procharger and a 351 I would be able to squeez over 1000hp out of that engine. The tranny is undecided like most things, thats why I want ppl to pitch in ideas, I was told go with a c4 3speed auto since it was cheap and pretty common and reliable, of coarse the tranny would have a shift kit and a stall converter, those are obviouse upgrades if thats what you were wanting to know. For breaks, idk I would have to look into break kits for the car, nothing more get a shoot : ). For the rear end, hmmm upgrade to the famous ford 9 inch? Unless your talking about gearing, and im not familar with that either, I would probably look and see what other ppl use that have close to the setup that I desire. I am going to grab that car when I can barrow a truck and flat bed, then ill get picks up and start the project so you all can see for yourself.
 
Well, I don't want to be the only determining factor for you getting a 351. It's only my opinion and what I would do. Some guys like runnning the 302 based stuff cause they can turn the hell out of the motor. From reading I am not so certain the 351s will want to spin like the 302.

If I were you I would seriously hang out out over at the corral. There's a bunch of information there. I can only speculate and give you my opinion, 9-10 second cars are not my specialty, I just know where I would start. What components and how to get me to that goal is another deal all together. You'll need to do some research and see what the Stang guys are running, and I would pay attention to the SN95 guys. To my knowledge I think they have some similar space restrictions. Also, as far as the SCing the motor, I don't think there is a lot of custom work, I think it is more of mixing and matching some SN95 and Fox body stuff to get onte mounted.

All in all, you'll need to do your research where you'll get real answers, I am only speculating and sure that some of what I have said can be easily argued by theose, "In the know".

Good luck and keep us updated.
Skip
 
If I was wanting to swap a V-8 ,That's supercharged
into a Thundergird SC. I would buy a wrecked 2003 -04
Cobra Mustang.

By buying a 03-04 Cobra from a junk yard.The motor &
trans will bolt into the MN12 thunderbird chassis.Plus you
would be able to use a lot of other parts from the Cobra,
like brakes,rear-end,wireing,computor,fuel system, ect.

Though a search of the web,You can buy a wrecked
03 - 04 Cobra Mustang.
www.junkyarddog.com


Randy
 
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V8Supercoupe said:
My motor choice would definitely be the 302-351's hands down. My preference, would be a 351 based motor, only because it will take a little more abuse then a 302 block.


it depends on the block. 69 to early 70's 302 blocks are the strongest 302 of the OE 2-bolt blocks, and will take 600hp without a problem. They are heavier then late model 302 blocks, but this is the reason late model blocks crack..as ford was stupid and took more and more metal out to save weight over the years :rolleyes:

As for doing a 351... i myself wouldnt, but thats me. 9.5 (351) deck parts are more expensive then 8.2 (302) parts, and harder to come by at a good deal if going the "used" route.

and if you go with a 302, dont be afraid to use a motor that has hyperpathetic pistons. The pistons will and have been proven to hold 600+hp, they just dont take to detonation well like the oe (TRW) forged pieces.



and you will only make 1000hp with a procharged 351 if you have a combo that is capable of producing those kind of numbers. 1000hp isnt like making 500-600hp.
 
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351Ws cant take more abuse RPM wise, they have larger rod bearing=faster bearing speeds=rod knock if you rev the piss out of them with no oiling mods
 
Insane4cefed said:
I am getting this SC for mear nothing. Im getting the car for 200 bucks from an old laddy. It was her daughters car and they are rich! It was her car for awile then as all cars do they need work and well they had this thing like completly redone. The motor has brand spankin new heads and tons of work, I havent gotten to look threw all the reciets but this car was well matained and they said they have around 12k worth of work on the car over the years. The only thing left do get the car running is re-wiring the vacum lines. From what they say there mechanic didnt know how to work on that car to the fullest and couldnt complete the car for them and since they are so "rich" they just bought there daughter a new car and that one sat. It has been sitting for awile but overall the car is IMACULANT. So trying to find a ol v8 one is not something I want to do. Well back to the project descusion. Yes this car will happen overtime. I have other toys that are not " balls to the walls" so I have something to keep me tickin. So we have decided that it is best to go with a 351 block. As for hp gains, I was told with a procharger and a 351 I would be able to squeez over 1000hp out of that engine. The tranny is undecided like most things, thats why I want ppl to pitch in ideas, I was told go with a c4 3speed auto since it was cheap and pretty common and reliable, of coarse the tranny would have a shift kit and a stall converter, those are obviouse upgrades if thats what you were wanting to know. For breaks, idk I would have to look into break kits for the car, nothing more get a shoot : ). For the rear end, hmmm upgrade to the famous ford 9 inch? Unless your talking about gearing, and im not familar with that either, I would probably look and see what other ppl use that have close to the setup that I desire. I am going to grab that car when I can barrow a truck and flat bed, then ill get picks up and start the project so you all can see for yourself.

I don't think you have a clue of what your getting yourself into. For 1000 HP motor with supporting mods and the power adder, take your current budget of $20 and double it. That won't necessarly be enough to make the car go 9s. For that your going to need much more money and more mods, especially if you intend to comply with the new NHRA safety rules.

Remove the word cheap from your vocabulary, because nothing about it is going to be cheap and many of the parts will need to be custom made to fit an MN12. If the only reason your thinking about using the SC as a platform for your project, is because your getting the car cheap...then don't do it. Buy a mustang instead and you will be able to purchase every part you need and the project will be much easier. The cost of the nearly perfect condition 93 SC I based my project on was not really a factor...because the purchase price of the car was nothing compared to what all the other stuff cost.

I've been researching and building my dream drive train SC for more than two years, and I'm still working on it. It's currently on jackstands and with only about 500 miles on a new race motor, and less than 100 miles since the turbo system was installed. The motor is in a hundred peices and needs to be torn down for repairs and to inspect other parts of it for abnormal wear or damage from when it blew a head gasket on it's second pass down the track.

I don't mean to discourage you, but you might want to start with an easier project than converting to an EFI forced induction V8 in an SC. Doing the 460 based big block with a carb would be much easier and can make similar power..Pro Street Rich has made several post about how to do the swap and it sounds like it would be a much cheaper way than what your planning or what I did.

David
 
1000 hp is good for 7's. All you'll need is 650 or so rwhp and some rpm.

Don't be like the Supra guys running 10's with 1000hp at 145mph. :rolleyes:

HP is only half the story when talking about a 10 second car or faster. You will have just as much money in suspension/drivetrain then you do in your motor.
 
1000 hp is good for 7's

I'm sure he meant at the flywheel and with a non locking AOD or C4 that's only around 750 at the wheels, which IMO is not enough to even run high 9s at stock weight.

David
 
David Neibert said:
I'm sure he meant at the flywheel and with a non locking AOD or C4 that's only around 750 at the wheels, which IMO is not enough to even run high 9s at stock weight.

David
I highly doubt 250 hp is lost through drivetrain. I know it's a race car, but I own a 428CID NA motor that makes 1070hp and only loses about 60hp through a 400turbo and a moser 9inch rearend. It's run a best of 7.89 at 165mph. I know its hard and a little arrogant to compare the two, but thats alot of HP to lose through drivetrain. I just don't see that much loss happening.

I'd believe it if it was a Allison transmission from a dump truck and a 17inch rear end with a two piece lead driveshaft.

Excuse my ignorance if there's something i'm missing. :)
 
If I were you I would just build a NA carbed V8 and just build it with enough HP to run 12s or even 11s at most. Anything faster and like David said its going to get really expensive. You can build a 351W to 500-550rwhp NA and a carb easy and with the right parts a production 351w block can take 8000 RPM. I talked with a mustang guy at the strip that had a production block 351w turning over 8000 RPM with the rev limiter set to 8600. You could build a big block and make 500-600 easier than the small block and it would make that power more reliably but at the cost of extra weight. Keep it as simple as possible and just build it to have fun, not to be the fastest, most expensive MN12 bird out there.

Shane
 
CMac89 said:
1000 hp is good for 7's. All you'll need is 650 or so rwhp and some rpm.

Don't be like the Supra guys running 10's with 1000hp at 145mph. :rolleyes:

HP is only half the story when talking about a 10 second car or faster. You will have just as much money in suspension/drivetrain then you do in your motor.


1000hp (to the wheels) is good for 7's in a car under 3000lbs maybe. My company car makes just under 1300rwhp and has only been 170 (8.26) at 3400lbs. And a motor that has a powercurve like a single turbo supra only making 400-500hp throughout most of the RPM range and then making 1000hp for a couple hundred RPM is a useless band, and most likely wont get you anywhere near running 7's. Peak numbers dont mean ~~~~ unless you are trying to win a dyno contest.
 
CMac89 said:
I highly doubt 250 hp is lost through drivetrain. I know it's a race car, but I own a 428CID NA motor that makes 1070hp and only loses about 60hp through a 400turbo and a moser 9inch rearend. It's run a best of 7.89 at 165mph. I know its hard and a little arrogant to compare the two, but thats alot of HP to lose through drivetrain. I just don't see that much loss happening.

I'd believe it if it was a Allison transmission from a dump truck and a 17inch rear end with a two piece lead driveshaft.

Excuse my ignorance if there's something i'm missing. :)


a non rollerized tranny will eat up a bunch of power, especially when dealing with a C4 or AOD. Typically they eat up 18-22% of the power you are putting through it. And a C4 with just a shiftkit wont last 1 run behind a 1000hp motor. If you are gonna try throwing 1000hp at any stock gearset tranny, i would only use a glide..as stock 1.76 gearset glides have been proven to hold up well to those kind of #'s, but even then, id still be looking into sticking a billet straight cut gear set (like a Transmission Specialties set) in. Its hard to find a company thats putting out a TH400 that will actually hold up to those kind of #'s in a car thats over 3000lbs..

Rossler makes the best 3spd tranny you can buy today, but they are also $5000 (TH210).
 
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